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Mark75H
11-25-2002, 11:20 PM
Yamato History page (http://www.kyo-tei.com/maniac/oldmotor.htm)

If there is any real interest, I can give you a link to English translation of the text. Webgeeks can surf around the site and find a lot of cool stuff like cutaways of a modern Yamato, pictures of the driver training school and the boats they race in Japan.

Here's a sample of the 1953 Yamato Y-1:

David_L6
11-26-2002, 09:12 AM
Pretty obvious who Yamato copied.

25XS
11-26-2002, 04:22 PM
David said, "Pretty obvious who Yamato copied."

Yep ! That's a ChrisCraft Commander powerhead with the recoil housing and lower cowling removed if I ever saw one...!






Oh, yeah. And they copied the Q tower, too. but their gearcase is pretty great looking!

Mark75H
11-26-2002, 05:55 PM
That lower unit looks like a copy of an Eldredge... CLE and all! Wonder where Merc got the CLE idea?

25XS
11-26-2002, 06:25 PM
That Yamater foot even has the KE/KF/KG-7 pinion gear bulge...

Who DID have the first CLE foot? Looks like Yamato is definitely in the running!

In any case, I'm glad someone did it, cuz my own 25XS gearcase is SWEEEET lookin'

Tom

Mark75H
11-26-2002, 07:23 PM
I think Marshall Eldredge wins on the CLE by a year or two over Yamato.

mk30h
11-27-2002, 01:03 PM
How did the first Yamato's compare to the KG7H and
Chriscraft Commander? What was the quality like on these early engines no doubt made from the aluminum of downed Zero's? If Carl could sue, ChrisCraft for patent infrigment, I'm sure the same could have been done for US occupied Japan.
Did Yamato license any US patents' licences etc?
It's interesting to see how the engines evloved to look more like a conversion 20H ( without the nice AB quicky. Whats the story?

Mark75H
11-27-2002, 07:04 PM
Yamato racing outboards and Merc racing outboards were made for very different uses. The Yamatos are made for Japanese Kyotei pari-mutuel racing, where outboard races are bet on like horse racing. Yamato puts in a bid, sometimes they win, sometimes they loose out to another maker like in 1956 when Kinuta won the right to supply motors for racing.

With the large amount of money involved in gambling, I am certain the quality has always been above reproach. I am also certain the possibility of loosing production because of patent infringement has always been closely watched.

I am not aware of any licensing of any patents from US makers by Yamato, Kinuta or Fuji.

If I recall correctly, the Chris Craft infringement was on a gear/bearing arrangement in the fishing motors. I doubt these motors use that sequence of parts on the propshaft.

My take on the evolution is just strength and weight, they became stronger and gained a little weight. The lack of a pointy nose is no big deal. Drag out the best 30H ever made and run it beside a Yamato and see how important the point is.

Ron Hill
11-27-2002, 08:16 PM
Hey Sam,
The first CLE I ever saw was on a Konig. Considering the Eldridge gearcase used Merc "D" 1: 1 gears and we had Konig 15 : 16 and 1:1 we thought the Konig came first and we thought that a "CUT" or "SHAVED" Konig was every bit as small as the Eldridge...we also thought the Konig to be faster.

This guy, Fred Hauenstein, Jr. never thought that was right. The thing that was really good about the Eldridge was it had not "built in" kick out like the Quickie did.

My dad would move the front of the "D" Foot to line up with the prop shaft, actually shotened the foot and chiseled the front, so the water went on both side of the housing. We never thought of the CLE.

Now, in historical research, Lon Stevens should be questioned and asked when he made the first CLE for Rich Fuchlin's FRR. 60 cubic inch F, runabout two in the boat that went 97 mph about 1964...

On Lon's 75-H, I thought he made a CLE for looks, becasue I thought it was cool....later found it to be very functional when I made a CLE for my Evinrude Mod VP.

To me, when I saw that Yamato on the SOA Web Page the other day, I thought maybe, just maybe, the Japanese did invent the CLE.

Early Eldridge, Hill, Hubbell and others could not be a CLE becsue the way they assembled the gearcases.... My dad used to make a "Snivey" which screwed on a Johnson and lengthen the gearcase about 2". Cut the torque on the 460 Evinrude F...

My "vote" for first CLE is Yamato!!!!

Mark75H
11-27-2002, 10:59 PM
Ron, the Yamato is a '53 and Marshall started making his Mercury based units with the CLE in '51; I don't know the first year of the König "H" series lower unit, but it definitely is in the running.

I went to my basement and dug out an old König "H" series lower unit housing. It does have the CLE and many of the same features that Marshall Eldredge Jr. used on his Merc based lower unit. The more I look at the König and Eldredge the more I think Marshall copied features from it. One thing I will give Eldredge credit for is the use of a large skeg under the bullet. Merc came out with the larger skeg D Quicky in 1956 and König came out with a larger skeg foot about 1960.

Here is a picture of a newer König, about 1960. This version uses 3 water inlets and larger skeg than the early 50's units.

Ron is correct about the Eldredge OMC lower units from the late 40's....no CLE there.

Ron Hill
11-28-2002, 12:11 AM
Marcel Belleville moved to California from Canada in the spring of 1961, or 1962, he had several Konig units like the one pictured...Prop in the picture is a Cary.

I have an article about Record Runs at Salton Sea about 1951. My dad, Russ Hill Sr., was the motor inspector. In those days even the "ALKY" classes had rules on the lower units. Marshall Sr. had made a lower unit for Marshall Jr. and when my dad went to measure it, he could not get the "R" measurement to meet specs. (When my dad filed lower units too small, he'd paint them with gray primer and then sand it off except where he wanted it to be legal.) Anyway, my dad set the micrometer to the spec and handed it to Marshall and said, "Marshall, I know you wouldn't come from Florida to California with an illegal motor, would you mind finding the SPOT that the lower unit will measure?" Marshall took the mic, fooled with it for about five minutes, then said, "Here it is." A World Record was at stake. My father would DQ anyone for .001. That was the way he was. But if it was legal, it was legal.

Donald Eldridge spent quite a bit of time in California. I last saw him when I was inducted into APBA's Honor Squdron.

When we get the Power Boat Encyclopedia going here on Sreamandfly.com, we can write the history of the Eldridge Family...hopefully, with their help!!!

bulldogdaddy
11-28-2002, 07:18 AM
didn't realize the famous ron hill was in here.great to see ya,and it says i'm forbidden to go to your website,i dont own a jet!lol

25XS
11-28-2002, 01:36 PM
I own a 1957 Konig A-alky motor and it's got a CLE foot. One or two years earlier it was still identical, but the powerhead was run on gas/oil and disqualified from most all the races it won based on a rule that motors must be made in America... "fine print" won the 1955 or 1956 Nationals for some guy!

Ron Hill
01-01-2003, 04:04 PM
Yamato price list from 1977 Bakersfield Program...