Pinning Your Carrier

[Instigator]

Seen this asked a bazillion times and never seen a "how to" done. Let me know if so and I will delete this one.

Had to do the L/U's for the Sonic and after having to lay them out for the umpteenth time (never kept the spec's)I figured I'd do this.
Use 1" X 1/4" X 20 flat head bolts with flat washers inside unit and nylok nuts. This needs to be a preventative maintenance item as I have lost them.

#1, Is basic measurements. In a nut shell you're trying to center the bolts in the middle of the casting webbing of the carrier.

<a href="http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/?action=view&amp;current=pinningacarrier2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/pinningacarrier2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

#2. Hole drilled with counter sink done also for the 1" flat head bolts.

<a href="http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/?action=view&amp;current=pinningacarrier3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/pinningacarrier3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

#3. Counter sinking. I use the bolt head as the template. When it will go in hole bellow surface you're done.
<a href="http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/?action=view&amp;current=pinningacarrier7.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/pinningacarrier7.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

#4 & #5. Drilling completed and holes painted to prevent corrosion.
<a href="http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/?action=view&amp;current=pinningacarrier5.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/pinningacarrier5.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/?action=view&amp;current=pinningacarrier6.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/pinningacarrier6.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

#6. Is finished project from inside view. Hope this helps.
<a href="http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/?action=view&amp;current=pinningacarrier8.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/pinningacarrier8.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[trickey]

Thank you that is something that I have been thinking about doing, and your post with photos makes
it much easier to understand how it done! :cheers:

[Gorilla0178]

Sorry to ask. but what is this done for exactly? I see what you did, does that part have a history of coming loose?

[jphii]

It keeps it from spinning. Gary, the nylocks will melt and come off. Try star or lock washers & regular nuts.

[Forkin' Crazy]

Sorry to ask. but what is this done for exactly? I see what you did, does that part have a history of coming loose?

Keeps the carrier from wobbling around and the wedges coming loose. If you have some of the exhaust relieved the nylocks won't melt. At least mine have not. I honestly don't see them doing it even withe exhaust passing through unless you have it dry stacked.

I pinned mine just twice 180 degrees apart.

Those who have not done this, it is a WHEN NOT AN IF, because it will come apart if you surface a high pitch prop and run the piss out of it. ;)

Gary, I don't remember ever seeing a thread with pictures and all. Nice job! :thumbsup:

[Gorilla0178]

What happens when it comes loose, it looks like I'll be doing this in the near future also, seems like a easy preventitive fix.

[Forkin' Crazy]

Do it ASAP. The carrier will eventually back out and the pinion gear will loose proper mesh cause the gears to eat themselves. I promise you, it isn't pretty. I failed to do an earlier case with the case bolts.... with the keeper ring that kept the ring that captured the bolts.... the ring land in the case finally gave up. From what I understand the later cases are not as strong because of the wedges. Cost me about a grand to get a newer case, coned, tabbed, and pinned.

[Gorilla0178]

Can you drill and tap set screws instead of bolts that go all the way through, or the bolts better?

[Instigator]

Can you drill and tap set screws instead of bolts that go all the way through, or the bolts better?
Won't last.

[JWTjr.]

if you drill and tap for set screws they will eventually shear. The carrier still moves even with this modification. With the nuts you can maintain a level of tightness by checking them every once in awhile.

tiger

[Instigator]

I've tried many things w/these cases over the years. Many have worked, some have not. This method is the best I've seen specific to the carriers. The next step is to machine eccentric washers to even/spread out the clamp load of the bolts. As in my pix's (and how most do them) the nuts are actually only making contact on the their outer edges due to clamping against the radius of the I.D. of the carrier. The trick is to machine washer/spacers w/an outer radius equal to the carrier I.D. and and a flat top for the nut to torque against and the thickness of the webbing (approx. 1/2").
I had prototypes to the machine shop but he need too many as a minimum run to be cost effective to make them.
Have seen home made versions on the board before.
You can make an OMC housing run pretty good if you sneak up on them and due your preventive maintenance as is required of all Hi Perf pcs.

Here was my last attempt at a good OMC case for next to nothing. Extended skeg, blow out ring, larger torque tab etc. Reduced steering correction @ WFO by approx. 50% and best running OMC based case I ever ran.


<a href="http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/?action=view&amp;current=lwrunit.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll255/Instigatorspixs/lwrunit.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[Forkin' Crazy]

Gary, check over on byboyz. Aero had some. I think Acie Stringfield (sp) had some made over in Houston.... ?

[Instigator]

Gary, check over on byboyz. Aero had some. I think Acie Stringfield (sp) had some made over in Houston.... ?
Aero is the one who gave me the samples way back when.

[Riverratt]

At the 1.4" back does that miss the o-ring or doesn't it matter if you drill through the o-ring?

[loop]

I made some for Aero a couple of years ago.
The ones I made were one piece,meaning all 4 washers were part of a ring that slipped in from the rear. The idea was that the ring,which fit snug inside the carrier AND the case would help to keep the case round.
I dont know if the screws break or back off but I always seemed to loose the screw (and the fancy washer) in the 10 o'clock location.
The aluminum ones are kinda bulky. They will work fine if all you use are over hub props and have open exhaust, The one I'm using now is made from stainless. Its much thinner,wont interfere with the prop hub and causes less exhaust restriction. They can all be made with a built in blowout ring.
I've been using the stainless one for 2 years now and havent lost any screws yet
the first 3pics are aluminum, the last 2 are stainless

[JWTjr.]

I made some for Aero a couple of years ago.
The ones I made were one piece,meaning all 4 washers were part of a ring that slipped in from the rear. The idea was that the ring,which fit snug inside the carrier AND the case would help to keep the case round.
I dont know if the screws break or back off but I always seemed to loose the screw (and the fancy washer) in the 10 o'clock location.
The aluminum ones are kinda bulky. They will work fine if all you use are over hub props and have open exhaust, The one I'm using now is made from stainless. Its much thinner,wont interfere with the prop hub and causes less exhaust restriction. They can all be made with a built in blowout ring.
I've been using the stainless one for 2 years now and havent lost any screws yet
the first 3pics are aluminum, the last 2 are stainless

Very nice! You should see some action on these...nice work,

John

[Instigator]

I made some for Aero a couple of years ago.
The ones I made were one piece,meaning all 4 washers were part of a ring that slipped in from the rear. The idea was that the ring,which fit snug inside the carrier AND the case would help to keep the case round.
I dont know if the screws break or back off but I always seemed to loose the screw (and the fancy washer) in the 10 o'clock location.
The aluminum ones are kinda bulky. They will work fine if all you use are over hub props and have open exhaust, The one I'm using now is made from stainless. Its much thinner,wont interfere with the prop hub and causes less exhaust restriction. They can all be made with a built in blowout ring.
I've been using the stainless one for 2 years now and havent lost any screws yet
the first 3pics are aluminum, the last 2 are stainless
Nicely done! Very impressive. Exhaust restriction was one of my issues w/the individual spacers. To get them big enough to be effective they created a fair amount of exhaust restriction.

Rat, doesn't matter. The later carriers don't even have the O-rings.

[Tony Brucato]

I made some for Aero a couple of years ago.
The ones I made were one piece,meaning all 4 washers were part of a ring that slipped in from the rear. The idea was that the ring,which fit snug inside the carrier AND the case would help to keep the case round.
I dont know if the screws break or back off but I always seemed to loose the screw (and the fancy washer) in the 10 o'clock location.
The aluminum ones are kinda bulky. They will work fine if all you use are over hub props and have open exhaust, The one I'm using now is made from stainless. Its much thinner,wont interfere with the prop hub and causes less exhaust restriction. They can all be made with a built in blowout ring.
I've been using the stainless one for 2 years now and havent lost any screws yet
the first 3pics are aluminum, the last 2 are stainless

Nice work!

[Gorilla0178]

So thanks instigator, i did this mod in about 10 min, the question i have is does it need to be pinned in 4 places or is 2 places 180 degrees apart good enough. I only did 2 for now as i hate to drill more holes than necessary.

[rude tim]

I use grade 8 fine thread screws with locking nuts, I have not had a bolt break since I did it this way. Use the green hi temp lock tite and the will never come loose. Paint it after you finish and rust is not a problem.

[Action Dave]

So thanks instigator, i did this mod in about 10 min, the question i have is does it need to be pinned in 4 places or is 2 places 180 degrees apart good enough. I only did 2 for now as i hate to drill more holes than necessary.

I only have 2 on my current case. My previous case had 4. I think as long as you check them often to make sure they're tight, you'll be good to go. I got lazy on my old case and the pins came loose. The carrier dug a groove into the side of my old housing which eventually turned into a huge crack.

[Instigator]

I've always done four and guess one potential issue in my mind would be alignment. By using four it keeps from walking better than two and would not be trying to stretch the carrier as two could possibly due.
I have a system/routine in building mine and part of it is the torquing sequence of the four bolts.

[1BadAction]

Excellent write up Gary, we need more posts like this on here. :cheers: I'll be doing my V4 this weekend, probably isn't going to need it, but it doesn't hurt to have a little extra insurance.

[Smoking Joe]

A brilliant report Gary, thanks for taking the time to share it with us. :cheers::cheers::cheers:

[Smoking Joe]

I made some for Aero a couple of years ago.
The ones I made were one piece,meaning all 4 washers were part of a ring that slipped in from the rear. The idea was that the ring,which fit snug inside the carrier AND the case would help to keep the case round.
I dont know if the screws break or back off but I always seemed to loose the screw (and the fancy washer) in the 10 o'clock location.
The aluminum ones are kinda bulky. They will work fine if all you use are over hub props and have open exhaust, The one I'm using now is made from stainless. Its much thinner,wont interfere with the prop hub and causes less exhaust restriction. They can all be made with a built in blowout ring.
I've been using the stainless one for 2 years now and havent lost any screws yet
the first 3pics are aluminum, the last 2 are stainless

Fantastic work Loop, if you get some inquiry for your "washers", please put my name down for two. What a great idea and great workmanship. Please consider a production run.:cheers:

[baja200merk]

My nylock never melted in the 7 yrs and 10x more hrs then that racing boat joe :D Must be a 12in mid problem? :confused:

[champ201]

Won't last.
Wow, haven't responded to a thread since I sold the boat, but here's my experience. Drilled @ 4 locations, tapped all the way through the housing and carrier. Ran 1/4" ss bolts inside to out (through carrier, then housing) with a lock washer, then ground down bolt threads flush with the housing. It looked real clean, ran it for 10 seasons/200+ hours and just tightened them every once in a while (which wasn't often). The engine was approx. 250hp on a heavier hull and normally ran in fairly sloppy water. Never sheared a bolt.

[baja200merk]

I have seen 6 pins put in an older case. The 4 usual pins then 2 more at 3 & 9 o'clock that were drilled and tapped into the horizontal part of the carrier.

My cases only have the 4 pins, and I have NEVER not once had a gear case failure. I have pulled 5ft of fishing line out of the propshaft seals and had to change the water in that one about every time out (costal 90W :thumbsup: ) then did the seals but I have never had a case fail.

[Action Dave]

I've never had an internal issue with my cases either. Housings and bearing carriers, I haven't had luck with but all my internal parts are still original.

[JTM]

Great infromation on the lower unit...

[BarryStrawn]

The next step is to machine eccentric washers to even/spread out the clamp load of the bolts. As in my pix's (and how most do them) the nuts are actually only making contact on the their outer edges due to clamping against the radius of the I.D. of the carrier. The trick is to machine washer/spacers w/an outer radius equal to the carrier I.D. and and a flat top for the nut to torque against and the thickness of the webbing (approx. 1/2").




I think have some of the radius washers out in the shop. I made some a few years ago although I don't remember who it was for. Will check and see if I can find them.

[BarryStrawn]

Here are some of the washers. There are three in the picture showing the curved side that goes against the carrier and the rest show the 1/2" spotface and a taper that is just for looks. Hole is .25" and they are .2" thick. I think these help but getting the hole drilled square to the case and then the countersink straight into the hole probably makes more difference in keeping them tight. If the countersink or the nut are at all cockeyed the joint will not be rigid.

[Instigator]

Here are some of the washers. There are three in the picture showing the curved side that goes against the carrier and the rest show the 1/2" spotface and a taper that is just for looks. Hole is .25" and they are .2" thick. I think these help but getting the hole drilled square to the case and then the countersink straight into the hole probably makes more difference in keeping them tight. If the countersink or the nut are at all cockeyed the joint will not be rigid.
Awesome! I'll take a dozen ;)

[BarryStrawn]

;) I think you still have some credit on your account.

[frederick55]

When I first pinned my carrier, I was also breaking the 10 o'clock bolt. Ended up being slightly worn bearings. Changed them out, and haven't had a problem. My exhaust is ported, but still burned the nylox nuts. Fixed that by using double nuts with a lock washer in between, with loktite.

[Instigator]

;) I think you still have some credit on your account.
No I don't. That goes towards my damn flywheel so I can screw it on my cool looking motor sitting on a stand ;)

[Aaronhl]

Can someone repost the pictures Thank you

[Hippie459MN]

Hey Instigator, you would be able to update the post with the old pics would you?

[rjdubiel]

Hey Instigator, you would be able to update the post with the old pics would you?

get the boat on the water, when you come boat we can pin the carrier at the ramp quick!

[mrichartz]

Of a pinned carrier?

508405508406508407508408

[mrichartz]

Just looked at this again..and reminded me was looking for blowout rings
Does anyone have any blowout rings?
I mean someone has to have some and not asking a ridiculous amount for....

[Instigator]

Probably still have them in my lap top but we don’t have internet where we live so…..

It’s pretty basic though.
I use four quarter 1/4” x 20 flathead stainless bolts about an inch and a half long I believe.
Flat washers with Nylok nuts on the inside of the hub.

Line your holes every 90° around the circumference of the carrier/housing.
Setting your depth to put the holes through the middle of the carrier web, fore and aft.

I spend some time in the torquing sequence of the fasteners to make sure you’re not pulling the carrier out of align by tightening one nut completely before snugging the others.

Mark‘s pictures are what you’re after for a finished product.

By the way Mark, the motors look bad ass!
Have you been able to get into the boat at all on the water for any testing yet?

Spending all our time using ours as a weekender and not lighting it up much yet.

Hope this helps guys



Hey Instigator, you would be able to update the post with the old pics would you?

[Instigator]

Just dawned on me that I probably have those photos saved in my attachments on here.

Ill ck for you later on.

[mrichartz]

Probably still have them in my lap top but we don’t have internet where we live so…..

It’s pretty basic though.
I use four quarter 1/4” x 20 flathead stainless bolts about an inch and a half long I believe.
Flat washers with Nylok nuts on the inside of the hub.

Line your holes every 90° around the circumference of the carrier/housing.
Setting your depth to put the holes through the middle of the carrier web, fore and aft.

I spend some time in the torquing sequence of the fasteners to make sure you’re not pulling the carrier out of align by tightening one nut completely before snugging the others.

Mark‘s pictures are what you’re after for a finished product.

By the way Mark, the motors look bad ass!
Have you been able to get into the boat at all on the water for any testing yet?

Spending all our time using ours as a weekender and not lighting it up much yet.

Hope this helps guys


Lol... Mike Mark close enough ... I assumed you meant me by the testing question..
Still looking for a 26 lh chopper just so i have a smaller pair when i really run it.. only have the 28 mazcos which so far were good. But didnt really push it yet.. and actually my back has been an obstacle have to have someone when i go just in case..
Oh thanks..
And yea yours really looks nice. Must be alot of fun.
Oh i remember your comment on them being 6 " narrower yea you pretty much just look in the direction you want to go and you're turning.. actually going to be bringing the boat over here today and get a couple of small things done so im ready to go if when i ever find that 26 lh prop..or give in and just run the mazcos..just wanted to put some hours on it before i really ran those..

[BarryStrawn]

Just looked at this again..and reminded me was looking for blowout rings
Does anyone have any blowout rings?
I mean someone has to have some and not asking a ridiculous amount for....

Bob's machine has them for $65 which seems pretty reasonable to me. https://bobsmachine.com/product/blow-out-ring/

[mrichartz]

Bob's machine has them for $65 which seems pretty reasonable to me. https://bobsmachine.com/product/blow-out-ring/

For omc? Damn i thought i looked there... Just looked for 2.4 2.5... almost got my hopes up.. lol

[BarryStrawn]

It would probably be about 1/16" too large which seems fine to me. Fair bit of work to attach and fair in any case.

[mrichartz]

It would probably be about 1/16" too large which seems fine to me. Fair bit of work to attach and fair in any case.

Yea could make one with the same amount of work give of take... Did find the right size stainless for it and a few hours of work but now i cant remember where..
Actually if it were cheaper i wouldn't mind spending the time making it smaller to fit but

[oldschoolltv]

16 years on my pinned lower unit and wore a groove so I had this made and welded on it is a total of 1/2 inch wider to span the groove I then drilled and tapped it for pinning, I do have a Taylor mid so the exhaust relief isn’t an issue, it actually hooks up better now on holeshot with less aeration to the prop.:D
508435

[Instigator]

My bad, sorry.
Auto spell in my new phone and me not proof reading.




Lol... Mike Mark close enough ... I assumed you meant me by the testing question..
Still looking for a 26 lh chopper just so i have a smaller pair when i really run it.. only have the 28 mazcos which so far were good. But didnt really push it yet.. and actually my back has been an obstacle have to have someone when i go just in case..
Oh thanks..
And yea yours really looks nice. Must be alot of fun.
Oh i remember your comment on them being 6 " narrower yea you pretty much just look in the direction you want to go and you're turning.. actually going to be bringing the boat over here today and get a couple of small things done so im ready to go if when i ever find that 26 lh prop..or give in and just run the mazcos..just wanted to put some hours on it before i really ran those..

[FUJIMO]

...are your guys propshafts holding up o.k? any issues?...

[mrichartz]

Haven't had any problems.. driveshaft or anything
I have always pinned them as soon as i got them. These have been 17/18 and 14/15 years.. have to go look but pretty close..