4 pedal vs 5 pedal

[Howard10]

I have a 2.5 200 EFI on a deck boat, going thru motor and it has rubber coated 4 pedal reeds... would it help or hurt if I went back with 5 pedal :confused:

[malexie]

Keep what you have. They seal better.

[Howard10]

Thanks, malexie

[ChrisCarsonMarine]

Malexie,i know im alone here,but i don't agree,chris

[Jay Smith]

My customers have tested both, the 4 petal WINS hands down...In seal and performance gains over the 5 petal cage set up (with TDR 100-4 reed valves attached)..

Jay

[ChrisCarsonMarine]

Melaxie, I'm sure there will be conflicting opinions regarding the aluminum/rubber coated cage issue.First let me say I was addressing a question regarding a 200 Efi on a deck boat,not a race rig,and did not comment on flow,but sealing ability.While there may be some flow advantage with the 4 leaf rubber coated cage,I don't believe there to be any sealing advantage.An aluminum cage,properly lapped,with our reeds installed correctly,seals.The rubber coated cage,properly lapped,reeds installed correctly,seals.They both seal,I think equally well,BUT,the aluminum cage is STABLE,dose'nt swell,distort,crack,peel,etc.,and in my book is therefor much more likely to seal over a period of time.Now,if you really want the best performance,durability,flow,etc.,keep an eye out,we will be offering modified 4 leaf cages,fitted with oversized reeds,in the near future,already available for the 6 leaf 3.0 cages(Merc and Omc),Chris

[WATERWINGS]

I wonder if the ethanol will eventually eat up my rubber coated cages?

[ChrisCarsonMarine]

dont know what it is , heat , fuel , or time, maybe a combo of all but the rubber does fail.

[TEXAS20225]

yes i have given away countless stock 4 petal reed cages because the rubber was cracked or very very thick on the edges causing the center petals to gap open, personally i like the 5 petal cages with the mods like a force cage ( Chris Informed me of this style cage and he was not exaggerating) feel like it aspirates better but there again its just my opinion and i dont call opinions absolute

[Howard10]

I love this dialog it really helps all of us novices… keep it coming guys :thumbsup:

[Way2slow on H2O]

yes i have given away countless stock 4 petal reed cages Who's the dummy that took those??? :D

[t.martin]

Subscribed

[WATERWINGS]

I may need some replacements too....I'll know the next time I pull the reed block off.

[t.martin]

One thing I would like to point out about rubber coated reed cages. I have noticed that they vary in thickness. If you look closely you can see a number imedded in them. For example 3.1. I have seen complete sets out of the same virgin motor that have different thicknesses. I am no expert, but I would think that would make an unbalanced fuel feed.

[ChrisCarsonMarine]

After lengthy study it is my opinion the rubber coated reeds are being used for the same reason GM adopted teeny oil filters a few years back.There is probably a GM exec.sitting behind a gold plated desk,who had the brilliant idea to reduce the size of the oil filter by one half,thereby saving GM big money on oil and filter costs on new autos,stating that oils and filter elements are so much better these days along with cleaner ruinning engines and cleaner roads that the bigger filters were just a waste of effort and money.I think that the same logic holds true with the reed cages,it's less expensive [cheaper]to rough cast a reed cage and die cast it in rubber than to fully machine the cage.Then,to validate the practice,the engineers make up reasons the rubber cages are better...seal better,softer on reeds,quieter...?BS...realisticly...cheaper.I've been in the outboard business officially 36 years,and have seen thousands of reeds,and only a handfull of broken ones,UNTILL the advent of these wonderful rubber coated cages,which chip and break reeds regularly,often damaging motors.I know I'm out on a limb on my opinion,but i'm confident its a good one,Chris

[TEXAS20225]

Ronnie when you give someone something for free you cant ask for your money back Trent seemed to have no trouble with the ones i gave him but then there was no in trade item so his could be good ill

[TEXAS20225]

i bought a supposedly brand new set of the rubber coated cages from a guy who works for merc when i got them they had .020/.035 gap in them i called this guy he said aw dont worry the running of the motor will suck them shut i got my money back

[speedinstream]

I have a set of chris's ported 5 petal cages with his reeds and love them tey performe much better than stock.I have never run rubber coated cages

[Way2slow on H2O]

Ronnie when you give someone something for free you cant ask for your money back Trent seemed to have no trouble with the ones i gave him but then there was no in trade item so his could be good illI thought I was the dummy you gave those to??? After some time on the surfacer I was able to remove the rubber, file the cages (blueprint) (air files compliments of Chris Carson... thanks Chris) and lapped with 600 grit they work pretty good.

Chris, I was thinking maybe Merc started using an inferior grade of metal (China???) for cost reasons.:D

Actually, and this is straight from a Merc Tech, the reason for the switch (we all know when a part is replaced it's due to a BETTER design....right?) is "better seal" (I believe Yamaha was the 1st) and if you dip a new rubber cage in oil it does seal good. The oil on the rubber sticks the reed better than the oil to aluminum (there is a difference when tested with a magnet and strain gauge). The problem encountered with rubber and oil over time is when the oil evaporates it dries out the rubber (same as rubber bushings on a car)

[ChrisCarsonMarine]

Ronnie,I would think either cage would seal equally well...in the parameters set forth be the runnind of a 2 stroke engine.In theory i suppose the rubber could seal better in the lab,tested to the extremes[high and low pressure extremes],but in real life I don't see any difference...as long as both cages and reeds are in good condition.My observation is that aluminum cages stay in good condition untill corrosion from water intrusioin or mechanical damage ruins them,whereas the rubber cages fail on their own in a period of time,usually a few years.As far as great sealing,we see far more leaky rubber cages than aluminum,Chris

[RiceKiller]

All i can say is I spent time on the phone Chris and i run his reeds and i like them so when it comes to reeds Chris is the man If Chris says a chicken will pull a train Hitch em up
:) Have a nice day

[BADTROLL]

I agree, i talked to chris last week about putting his reeds in my 250 opti. As soon as i can get them out im shpping my stock ones to him. I dont want to wait to have a problem. We run high perf mountain sleds and i believe in upgrading the reeds.crisper throttle response is the most noticable improvment. Also i hate the thought of suckin a metal reed into an engine. And rubber hates ethenol. Just my 2 cents worth. Life is short guys, eat desert first!