150 merc head problem just got worse..

[bobkyle2]

Last weekend i had a problem.. We was running down the river with an big tube strapped on the boat really close to the engine.. My buddy tighted up the straps while running down the river and it kinked the fuel line..( I didnt notice it while going down the river.. but when we got to the dock i noticed i had the throttle set wide up.. while we were only running around 4000rpm... And at lower speeds i could definantly feel it missing.. I immediatly loaded it on the trailer and took his home.. where i pulled the tube off and the top of the motor... And thats when i seen the kinked fuel line..

Started it on the hose and it sounds perfect.... Pulled the plugs out of it to replace and do a comp check.. and when i did that the threads pulled out of the spark plug hole on one head... So.. I just got the new head yesterday....

Pulled the old head off today.. and i see the top piston on right side... Looks awful... The cylinder still looks great... And i havent got my head gaskets yet to put it together for a compression check.. I just wanted to post the pictures and see what you guys think...


http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx163/bobkyle2/Mobile%20Uploads/0604011829.jpg

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx163/bobkyle2/Mobile%20Uploads/0604011830.jpg

Here are the other 2 cylinders..

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx163/bobkyle2/Mobile%20Uploads/0604011829b.jpg
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx163/bobkyle2/Mobile%20Uploads/0604011829a.jpg


If the compression is still good is it ok to run... I cant even begin to afford to replace this thing hah

[sl!ck]

If compression is good the damage your looking at could have been left from a previous rebuild. Not the way I would do it but Ive seen it done.

[terry taylor]

Looks like the carbon has been cleaned from top of piston thanks.

[Dave Strong]

Need to see the top piston at TDC, looks bad but hard to tell looks like it was going for a meltdown. Not a good plan to run it, it will only get more expensive to fix.


Dave

[bobkyle2]

Ok... I will get better pictures tomorow... it was 104 degrees out there.. I was getting ready to have a meltdown...

I didnt clean anything.. Thats how it was... Im guessing from running lean...

One good thing i seen is the cylinder walls didnt look affected... I didnt look really hard.. But i will tomorow

Thanks alot guys

[fyremanbil]

It looks like it was detonating. It's the top cylinder, so it runs out of fuel first while the other 4 continue to spin the engine. It's possible the opposite cylinder which is fed by the same carb will look the same way. I would be worried about the piston failling in the near future from the overheating. The good news is that the 2L engine can just have a replacement piston put in and right back on the water.

[bobkyle2]

I guess the kinked fuel line got me.. unfortunately


How big of a job is that.... I have not got my manual here... Its at my work... I wont have it till sunday night...

[1fastg3]

Pull the reed cover and head about a 2 hrs job to do and about $150 .. If you cant do it then it would be about a $500 to $700 job

[bobkyle2]

Holy shat.. That dont sound too bad...

[bobkyle2]

Ive never tore into a outboard motor... But ive built a few 2 stroke MX bikes... And Tons of small and big block chevys...

Onlything really scares me about these things are syncing the carbs and timing ... I think my dads buddy has tore into these before... and a case of PBR...Will go along way there lol

[Dave Strong]

Ive never tore into a outboard motor... But ive built a few 2 stroke MX bikes... And Tons of small and big block chevys...

Onlything really scares me about these things are syncing the carbs and timing ... I think my dads buddy has tore into these before... and a case of PBR...Will go along way there lol

Before you do anything buy or get ahold of a Merc service manual, read before you start ripping things apart. If you have played with engines you should have no problems with the carb, bleed, and timing systems. The manual won't show the short cuts, the Flat Rate Techs come up with these to make up for the times they get screwed out of time, that seems to happen way to often.


Dave

[bobkyle2]

Ok thanks guys... I cant seem to find a Merc service manual anywhere... I have a seloc manual.. It really sucks though...

Where do is a place where i could order pistons.. Do i need OEM .. I know wiseco sells pistons for it.. And ive used alot of there pistons in my bikes.. Do they make good Marine parts also?

At the most i will have to replace 2 pistons i think... I havent got to pulling the other head off yet.. Probably wont be able to intill this weekend..

Would i have to replace rod bearings... I havent found a place online that even sells them either..

Thanks again guys

[bobkyle2]

Or maybe even a used piston.. Ive seen alot of those for sale??

[Dave Strong]

Slow down there turbo do a little more inspecting before ording a pile of parts. JMO rush jobs are not the way to go.


Dave

[WATERWINGS]

Pull the reed cover and head about a 2 hrs job to do and about $150 .. If you cant do it then it would be about a $500 to $700 job

It sounds like you mean to pull only the piston, and not to tear down the power head.....(remove rod bolts thru the front)......I've done it that way before myself, you just have to be very careful to get the rod cap back on just right.....its kinda hard to see / feel that it is lined up just right.

Good luck with the fix !

[syclone01]

you can just put the head back on with the old head gasket to check the compression, it should work fine for that. save messing up new gaskets

[fyremanbil]

If it's original, the 1984 150 will have a vertical reed front half, so the case will need to be split to replace the pistons. Pro Marine has decent cast pistons for a resonable price. You don't need to replace rod bearings unless they look bad.
Maybe you should try what others have mentioned and put the head back on and do a compete compression check on all cyl. How many hours are on the engine? If you are pulling it apart, you might consider re-ringing them all and then have a fresh engine.

[sschefer]

I don't see any deposits on the cylinder wall. Can you feel any ridges? Can you bring that piston up and take a close up of the top. That'll give us a better idea of the damage if there is any.

[bobkyle2]

Slow down there turbo do a little more inspecting before ording a pile of parts. JMO rush jobs are not the way to go.


Dave
Im not ordering anything.... I just dont get to work on it through the week... And im just looking up parts and what not... So when i do know what i need ... I will know where to find it.. Theres no since in sitting around through the week .. When i can search for parts.. prices..and read up as much as i can so im ready to hit the wrenchs on the weekends.

I will be doing more inspecting this weekend

[bobkyle2]

I don't see any deposits on the cylinder wall. Can you feel any ridges? Can you bring that piston up and take a close up of the top. That'll give us a better idea of the damage if there is any.

Yes... I will try to get a better pic in the morning...If i get off work at a decent time.. The cylinders look perfect... Still see the hash marks...

I dont have any upto date compression test... But i tested them at the begginng of the year... and they were all 119-122.... I will be doing a compression check ASAP...

[bobkyle2]

you can just put the head back on with the old head gasket to check the compression, it should work fine for that. save messing up new gaskets

Thanks man... Ya i just got my new head gaskets and water jacket gaskets i had ordered to begin with ... I hadnt even thought about using the old head and gasket for a compression test









Thanks everyone... I really appreciate it

[TEXAS20225]

if you have to replace a piston i would not even consider doing it as a one hole repair! take it down do it right have it checked by a reputable marine machine shop as for wear and out of round then move forward if its wore out dont waste your money on a cylinder thats got .005 wear on it its 27 years old i rebuild Mercs daily very few motors i have been into 27 years old that dont need boring and new pistons

[bobkyle2]

No way i can afford that... I will do pistons i think i need.. and hope for the best... If i dont think its going to last i will just have to start saving and i will repower ... After i can find a deal on a complete engine or powerhead

[sschefer]

If that cylinder is clean then I seriously doubt you had any spray transfer into the ring lands. It looks like a little got on the head but it's minor. I'd be willing to bet that if the compression tests good and you can move the rings using a screw driver through the exhaust port then you can button it back up and run it. Just make sure you replace that crimped fuel line if it needs it.

P.S. A great big ATTA BOY for being smart enough to check it out rather then just continuing to run it. You probably saved your motor!

[bobkyle2]

Well i have a new head... Im not worried about it... On this one side (i still havent opend up the other side yet)(but am going too)

I still aint look hard at it yet... But i took a quick look at them 3 cylinders and they look good..from what i could tell..

The kinked fuel line was fixed before i even realized i had the piston problem...lol...And it ran fine .. after the fuel line fix..


Thanks for the tips(i will need more than you guys can handle before its over with lol) and the ATTA BOY ...lol

[WATERWINGS]

I have had a stopped up pick up in the tank, and when running with a lot of throttle, it would bog down and die out some till I let the petal up and it would come back alive.....I would have thought that would have hurt the cyinders but as far as I could tell, it never did...

[bobkyle2]

Well... I could beat my self in the face with a hammer... We was a good distance away from the dock.. and it was sorta getting late.. and i felt it loose power... but we were coming into a different waterway.. I thought it was just different current or whatever... and i tapped the throttle on town to maintain speed...and (didnt really notice it was WOT then......I guess i ran that top cylinder lean too far..(possible other cylinders on the other side).. My dumba$$ should have shut it down right then.. and figured out what it was .. or called someone to come get us... but i didnt... I should have known better...

My guess would be my other top cylinder is going to look the same..Hope not... If i can wake up early enough today im going to try to pop that other head off.. before i have to go to work.

[WATERWINGS]

I've done that lots of times when I should have cut the key off, and got a tow in......more times than I can count....and I ride in the winter A LOT....no one out there to pull me in then...and most of my friends probably wouldn't get off the warm couch to come get me either....I got lucky one time, (think I was out of gas), and a 1/2 mile paddle took over 45 minutes....but usually I will be 5 to 7 miles away from home when I break....

No one wants to be seen on a tow rope, thats why I think I keep going sometimes....but when it breaks, you're on a tow rope anyway....

[bobkyle2]

Ya... Same here... I really didnt notice it was missing... intill i had stopped at the boat dock.. I thought my throttle linkage had slipped or something... when i slowed down close to the dock... I felt it missing.. and killed it right at the ramp.. and we loaded the boat on the trailer by hand..


But i did read my seloc (POS book) owners manual.. I fill a tad better about it.. Its very intimidating lol.... I wish i could find a web site that i could order a mercury service for that motor...

I am very intimidated by the link and sync ... I got to do some more reading up on that also

[sschefer]

You can get the manual through www.crowleymarine.com (http://www.crowleymarine.com) or maybe one of the sponsors on here will get you one through Merc Parts Express. The link and sync on these motor is really simple but I still step through the manual just for piece of mind.

[bobkyle2]

Ya.. I finally found the one i was needing ... But No one seems to have it in stock... And this morning i tried to order it from crowleymarine.... And there website kept giving me errors... Im going to try to it again tonight...

[bobkyle2]

Just ordered my P/N 6532289.. At Crowley Marine ... Saved ten bucks with offer code BRP :D

Items Ordered
-----------------
SM O/B V6 150-225 (#976583): 1
Item Total: $89.96

Had it Next day air'd... So it should be here probably money .. Im guessing...

If anyone has these book can you tell me .. If it has detailed pictures... The ones in my seloc manual look like they were taken with a Nokia cell phone :S

[Dave Strong]

Everything is better than Seloc or other jobber manuals.


Dave

[bobkyle2]

Ok.. Thanks dave... I might start a camp fire with this seloc one.. It drives me nutz...

Here is the best picture i can get...
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx163/bobkyle2/Mobile%20Uploads/0610010755.jpg

The piston is not as bad as i thought it was actually...

The cylinder looks a little worse than i thought... The picture makes it look Awful too... It doesnt look that bad... And you cannot feel any of the marks...
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx163/bobkyle2/Mobile%20Uploads/0610010755a.jpg


I pulled the other head off and everything looked perfect... So im only dealing with one bad hole...

And i have the new head to replace my original bad head....

[Dave Strong]

I don't think you want to run that piston, bet the sides look real ugly when you get it out.



Dave

[bobkyle2]

Yeah... A guy came and looked at it and told me that It is ok........ But I dont want to push my luck... Its a blessing i caught this... I would probably drown my self with a waterhose if i ran it and really messed up something... Are these sleeved from the factory.... It isnt nikaseled or anything is it?.... Do i just need to hone the cylinder



BTW .... Thanks for posting Dave.... I really appreciate it... Ill be signing up to support the forum .. Very shortly!!

[fyremanbil]

It's steel sleeved, so you can just hone it and replace the piston.

[bobkyle2]

Ok.. Another one for ya.... How big of a chore is it to extract and install new sleeve... Can it be done while motor is still assembled like the crank and rest of the pistons...

Thanks Fyreman

[fyremanbil]

No, sleeve is cast into the block. You would overbore the cylinder. If it gets too big, a sleeve can be installed by machining the old one out. Both require a total tear down.

[bobkyle2]

Thanks alot fyreman!


I hope i get that service manual... Ive got tons of questions.. But im going to wait to ask till i get that manual.. Im sure it will tell me everything i need to know..

Also.. Upon further inspection of this piston.. I took a magnifying glass to it.. And its crack vertically... And there a small hole forming in it..

[bobkyle2]

Well i didnt get my service manual yesterday.. Boo lol


If it's original, the 1984 150 will have a vertical reed front half, so the case will need to be split to replace the pistons. Pro Marine has decent cast pistons for a resonable price. You don't need to replace rod bearings unless they look bad.
Maybe you should try what others have mentioned and put the head back on and do a compete compression check on all cyl. How many hours are on the engine? If you are pulling it apart, you might consider re-ringing them all and then have a fresh engine.

Thanks for telling me about pro marine .. I ordered there catalog .. And got it yesterday.. I can say its much easier finding the correct parts in there book for outboards than i have ever seen... And they have everything

[bobkyle2]

Im no were near ready to put this thing together... But probably going to tear down this weekend.. Anyone have any tips...

Am i going to be a dumbass for not re-ringing the other holes...

Do i need to hone the cylinder im putting the new piston in.

And im guessing to check the rod bearings just check visually .. Replace any thing that looks wore..

Thanks guys.. Im sure some of these answers will be answered When this damn service manual gets here

[luv2gofast]

Am i going to be a dumbass for not re-ringing the other holes...
PROBABLY You are doing all the labor anyway.
Do i need to hone the cylinder im putting the new piston in.
YES
And im guessing to check the rod bearings just check visually .. Replace any thing that looks wore..
YES The book goes into pretty good detail.
Thanks guys.. Im sure some of these answers will be answered When this damn service manual gets here
YES YES YES...The factory manual is nothing like the after market. You will be happy you got it.

[bobkyle2]

Well i got my book.. And im even more scared now... lol ... I just read a few pages here and there..

Im scared about the bearings for sure.. Link and sync(i have yet to read into detail on it..Will do that tonight at work unless its busy) ..

The compression test were all 119 to 125 In january.. Do you really think i need to go ahead and re ring?

[fyremanbil]

The only real way to determine if the rings are worn is with a leak down test. The compression test shows it's not in bad shape, but can't tell if it's in really good shape either. You can decide to fix one hole, which can be done without removing the crank and other 5 pistons. With a bit more work, you can tear it all the way down and re-ring them all and start fresh. It's up to you.

[luv2gofast]

You have to hone the cylinder that is getting new rings. You have to wash out the cylinder after honing. I can't imagin how you are going to wash out the cylinder properly without pulling the crank and other pistons. If I am going to take it all the way down, hone a cylinder and wash it properly, I am going to put new rings in all the cylinders. That's the way I look at it. I'm sure others will see it different and I'm not saying they are wrong. I just think my time is worth more than parts.

[bobkyle2]

The only real way to determine if the rings are worn is with a leak down test. The compression test shows it's not in bad shape, but can't tell if it's in really good shape either. You can decide to fix one hole, which can be done without removing the crank and other 5 pistons. With a bit more work, you can tear it all the way down and re-ring them all and start fresh. It's up to you.
Ok.. thanks alot... Im still undecided.. I really just want to re-ring it all... I guess it just depends on if i do the dumbass or halfass way... I would love to be able to afford to strip it completly and bore and come back with all new..

You have to hone the cylinder that is getting new rings. You have to wash out the cylinder after honing. I can't imagin how you are going to wash out the cylinder properly without pulling the crank and other pistons. If I am going to take it all the way down, hone a cylinder and wash it properly, I am going to put new rings in all the cylinders. That's the way I look at it. I'm sure others will see it different and I'm not saying they are wrong. I just think my time is worth more than parts.
I can pull all the pistons, Hone, and wash... Without pulling the crank ... Correct?? ... Im listening to all offers ...lol



And Thank you both... E-Beer's for you both:thumbsup:

[Dave Strong]

JMO, The only way to get a bore clean after hone is lots of warm water with Tide laundry soap, but with lots of rags and time you may get it clean. You are doing a patch repair right?

Dave

[bobkyle2]

Im puttin new piston in for sure.. I dont know about the rest of the cylinders just yet... Im wanting to atleast re-ring them.. Just depends reallly though..

Im also going to do fuel pump...carbs.. For sure..

[luv2gofast]

Not sure why you are worried about pulling the crank?? It is much easier to line up the rod caps with the front half off and at that point the crank is out. I agree about washing out the honing crap with hot soappy water then solvent (something about polar and non-polar solvant). Wipe with clean white rag and light oil or ATF until the rag stays clean.

Are you thinking about doing the one cylinder and taking the rod apart through the front half with the power head still on? That is the only way I see you saving any time. I wouldn't do it that way but I know it's been done.

You don't have to bore and replace pistons if the cylinders and pistons are good. Just hone and rings. Head gaskets are the only expensive gaskets and you obviously have to replace those. It gives you a chance to look at the bearings and if you find a problem...sorry but better now than later.

[bobkyle2]

Yes.. I dont want to pull the power head..

Im going to buy new piston and rings for that bad cylinder.. And hone that cylinder and wash it down ... And go back together with it... If i find anything wrong with the reeds.. Or any other kind of problem.. I will probably pull it down completly and go through it all right...

Im wanting to build a motor Starting this winter... Thats why i dont want to throw alot of money into this one right now... I was wanting to find another good block and start out while i could still run this one... But my plans sometimes dont work out... Thanks guys keep them coming lol

[fyremanbil]

If it's an 84 2L, it has a vertical reed front half on it, so the front half of the engine has to come off to get to the rod bolts. That means the powerhead comes off and set on a bench. If you decide to re-ring the whole engine, clean as already posted above.
If you only do 1 cylinder, you can leave the crank in place held by the upper bearing and lower seal. Put grease on the seam where the crank meets the block, then stuff the rod slot with clean greased rags. Also stuff the exhaust port with greased rags. Hone as normal.
I heat and bend the handle on an angled head tooth brush. Reduce the size of the head till it fits in the transfer ports. WD40 or atf are decent solvents and the residue can be left behind. Scrub the transfers and push clean rags thru till they come out clean. Clean the bore, then the exhaust port. Pull the rags in the rod slot thru the bore, then clean the transfers, rod slot, and the bore again. If you do it carefully, the finished product will be cleaner than the other 5 cylinders are right now.

[Dave Strong]

If it's original, the 1984 150 will have a vertical reed front half, so the case will need to be split to replace the pistons. Pro Marine has decent cast pistons for a resonable price. You don't need to replace rod bearings unless they look bad.
Maybe you should try what others have mentioned and put the head back on and do a compete compression check on all cyl. How many hours are on the engine? If you are pulling it apart, you might consider re-ringing them all and then have a fresh engine.

Everyone including myself keep ignoring this post, but it has vetical reeds so he has to pull the power head anyway. 2.0l, 150hp never had horizontal reeds until 91. Piston, set of rings, gskt kit, good reeds, cut the heads for premium fuel, used 200hp tuner, and good to go with a bunch more hp.

Dave

[luv2gofast]

vertical reed front half on it

OOPS! So much for the easy way...

[bobkyle2]

..... So i have to pull the powerhead? .... Did not know this.. Sucks to hear..

What keeps me from doing the job without pulling the PH..

[luv2gofast]

If it's an 84 2L, it has a vertical reed front half on it, so the front half of the engine has to come off to get to the rod bolts. That means the powerhead comes off and set on a bench.

On a horz reed motor the cavities for the reed blocks are lined up with the rods so you can get to the bolts. On a vert (like we think you have) you can't get to the bolts or pull the caps so the case has to be split. The front half has studs that go into the mid section so you can't split the case until you remove the power head.

[bobkyle2]

Ok.. This sucks! lol.... Thanks again guys...

[fyremanbil]

As long as it's not corroded, it's no big deal. Disconnect battery cables, unplug wire harness, remove linkage and fuel line, 10 studs, and off it comes.

[bobkyle2]

You guys make things sound soooo easy :D lol...

I took my spare cash bought some cheap vehicals on craigslist... hopefully double or triple my money... Thinking about buying a reman powerhead... Or even a complete outboard...

I hopefully get to pull my powerhead sometime this week

[bobkyle2]

Im looking at use powerheads right now.. I found a 150 5945039 ... I looked the numbers up i beleive its a

150 1982 EXLPT 5944791 - 6220253
150 1982 ELPT 5944791 - 6220253

The guy says it runs good.... And i could drive it if i wanted to come run it before the weekend... But hes pulling it and putting a 200 powerhead on .. He says compressions is 110+ 3 or 4 psi diff between the 6 ... Hes wanting 750 for it..Comes with the original mid section

Im not dead set on that.. I have a 175 and 200 to look at also.. (dont know the prices yet) ... But is there a chart somewhere that i can look to see what powerheads will interchange..

Thanks a ton guys..

[fyremanbil]

As long as you stick to the carb engines, they all interchange. The only exception is the 76 thru some time around 1980 v-6's. They had a different shaped exhaust outlet and will not seal on the later exhaust adapter plate. I don't know of a way to check that without pulling the powerhead off.

[bobkyle2]

Ok... Well if all else fail.. On that 150 im looking at right now.. It has a Mid that comes with it.. As long as my LU would work...

Thanks Fyre!!

[bobkyle2]

This is the 150.. powerhead and mid section for 750

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx163/bobkyle2/Boat%20and%20Fish/IMG00207-20110622-1717.jpg

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx163/bobkyle2/Boat%20and%20Fish/IMG00208-20110622-1719.jpg

[200VEGAS]

i think the 82 150 is only 135. i would go for a 84 or newer 200 powerhead, but you need a 1.86 lower unit so maybe buy a 200 complete. i think you could use your lower unit, but you have to run tall props. i wouldnt mess with that old 150, cause you can do a lot better

[bobkyle2]

Hmm.. Im sorta wanting to do a 200 powerhead...


I have a new lower ... I just put it on like a month before the powerhead failed... It was from a 90's (i think) Mariner.. I dont know if its the same ratio as before or not..

Im still looking around... Thanks Vegas for the help!

[fyremanbil]

The difference between the 1.87/1 and the 2/1 gear ratios is equal to about 1.35" of prop pitch. With the speeds your running you could probably find the right prop for either combo. If you want to go faster, a stock 2.4 200 is much better than trying to get more power out of a 2L.

[luv2gofast]

Easy to check the ratio. Put it in fwd, mark the flywheel and prop shaft, turn the flywheel untill the propshaft makes one complete turn. If the flywheel went 1 7/8 turns it's a 1.87:1, it it went 2 it's 2:1. It's probably a 2:1 unless it's from a 200. It's 6.5% lower ratio so would require 6.5% more pitch (pitch x 1.065) to go the same speed. With the extra power you will need more prop anyway so it's not that big of a problem. And yes your gearcase will fit.

[bobkyle2]

Ok Thanks guys..... I dont want to do anything to hurt my MPH... lol