The Super C's

[Bill Gohr]

Thought you would like this.

[Mark75H]

Bill, can you dig up some pictures of Schulze tunnels so hydro-cat can see how famous his boat is? My main computer is down for repairs right now (so I'm a little crippled image-wise).

[Flat Out]

Man those are cooooooooool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[airide18]

Those super c's are way to cool lookin:)

[Jeff Lytle]

These were commonly known as Super C's in the knee jockey realm of things. They were produced by a Swedish Company and called Crescents. They were distributed by Dick O'Dea from Patterson New Jersey. Unique in that they actually ran in both the Stock, and Alky Divisions of APBA. As Stock, on gas, they were known as "Super C's" on Hydros or SCCH, a kilo record was set of 90+ MPH !! Unheard of with a gas burner. In the Alky divisions, with modifications they were superior to the Konigs and Quincys of the day, and even won National Championships and set Records that literally set the Division on it's ear !!
Crescent was bought out by Volvo Penta in the mid 70's and the racing programe was suddenly stopped.-----A crying shame for such a beautifully engineered engine that set the pace for others to follow.

To collectors, this engine is a very desireable one, since they were only distributed in the US for a few years. Parts are very scarce, as are complete engines----A very rare find indeed.

[Mark75H]

Jeff, here are the correct details on the Crescent racers:

The first European records were set in 1963 with an alky version, the CSSH Stock APBA class didn't run until the 70's, when the motor was more than obsolete in alky. The gas Crescent was then suggested to race along side the Merc Mark30H as an equal C Stock motor, but that idea was very quickly disposed of and a separate class established for them. Brad Snow held the kilo record at a scorching 94.161.

Crescent never really intended to sell more than a few dozen motors, so the production tooling was made kind of light. Critical parts were made as long as possible and then kinda petered out....definetly not with a bang as it is rumored. The clamps and swivel were one of the first to go, many Crescents will be found with the Merc clamps supplied by O'Dea. Volvo was into Stock racing in Europe and had no incentive to revive the then more than 15 year old, obsolete, full race Crescent. The block was made too tight and the crankshaft too short to increase the size and number of transfer ports to keep up with the opposed 4 Königs and Yamatos (sounds like the deflector Merc/Looper story doesn't it?). Also remember that just because a faster motor was being made, it doesn't mean every race from that time on was won by a faster motor. Not everyone jumped up and bought a 500cc König rotary valve motor when they became legal in APBA in the late 60's (APBA didn't let them in right away as NOA did, so Crescents, Loopers and piston port Königs had a little reprieve until the field built up with rotary valve boxers).

There were completely different specs and parts supplied from the factory for the alky version and the Stock C Super Stock Hydro version that Crescent called the "CS" (for "C" Stock) and as you point out is known as the "Super C" to US racers. One of the weakest links is the very tiny lower unit and microscopic gears....about the size of Merc 60J gears. Another weak link was the ignition system.
Note that the motor in the image above has both Mercury clamps and a 1970's Mercury 650 distributor.

When it was developed in 1962 it was one of the few loop scavenged outboards, by 1964 it had a lot of company on the race course, by 1970 it was becoming a has been (along side the Quincy Looper and Anzani's). Other technical features included chrome plated aluminum bores and three cylinder internal exhaust tuning (no expansion chambers or megaphones needed) both giving a big weight advantage. It might have been the lightest 500cc (30ci) racer ever.

There was also a D version for 700cc alky racing.

[Capt_Speed]

I thought Billy Simmons Super C had the record. I did like that class!!

Guy

[Mark75H]

Here's the front of the last version of the OMC mod 50:

2 barrel carbs, light flywheel, reedcages and reeds grafted from the V-8

[airide18]

Is that a sst 60 or a 3cly 50?

[Mark75H]

Ross, I think you are right in the detail, this is an SST 60, but I suspect the SST60 front case, carbs and flywheel are the same as the last generation Mod 50 "CC" engine.

[Bill Gohr]

Had 3 one barrels one them. The differences in the mod 50's weren't the carbs. The first ones had the angled reeds like the 75's then they were straight induction engines, like half of a CCC. The good ones had the exhaust on the other side but I don't know if those were production or not.

[brianT2]

heres a silver CCC version. i posted this before on another thread. i believe barry woods ran this version on a seebold hull at st. louis early in the CCC's life.

[David_L6]

What year is that ad from (the first picture)?

What's the difference between the CC and Mod 50?

[Mark75H]

I think CC is the real name from the factory and mod 50 is the nickname from the class; like Crescent CS and the racer's nickname "Super C". I've seen motors with CC and SR on them, but never "mod 50" (I'll as one of the Second Effort guys what he remembers in a couple weeks).


Something in my notes places the first year of the CC Evinrude triple (model FR19S) as 1978. I have the CCC V-6 as first being announced in 1976.

[airide18]

So the cc is a mod 50 engine?Its a 3cly racing engine right?

[BarryStrawn]

Yes they were made as racing engines for a 50 cubic inch modified racing class. Kinda like Mod U is now except 3 cylinders. CC was the Evinrude, SR was the Johnson.

[Ron Hill]

When you say, "Super C" I don't think Evinrude, I think 1975, Dayton, Ohio, where I won Super C Runabout, APBA National Championships. It wasn't my Swedish Crescent. It was Reed Riddle's from Utah and a Hill DSR boat. I won straight heats. The speed was close to a 500 CC Konig.

At the 1967 John Ward Trophy Race in Valleyfield, Canada, the Crescent Super C ran, but was no match for the new 500 CC Konig, four cyclider rotary valve on alcohol. As I recall, the Crescent only ran gasoline...We ran 50% NITRO TO WIN IN vALLEYFIELD.

A sweet engine. Well built.

As I recall Simmons, Hutchins AND OTHERS had them humming on the hydros!!!

[Bill Gohr]

Is the very first one built that had 3 2 bbls. on it. Nothing but a 76 200 with different exhaust. The later had 6.

The pic I listed was the original one page advertisment from 1976.
The CC is the mod 50

[David_L6]

Bill,

Do you know what the OMC FT that was raced in Australia was?

David

[Outboards Unlimited]

What was the highest pover they got out of the CCC? From factory.

[Raceman]

I doubt that anybody can answer with real accuracy. The memories of the V8 are now up in the 450 to 500 range, which seems very doubtful when there were races that the 2.4's were fairly competitive with em, even winning some. This would seem doubtful if they truly did have a solid 150 to 200 HP advantage as some now seem to believe.

As far as the CCC's and RS's go, the Merc race motors of the period were at least competitive with them so it's hard to think they'd have much more than low 2's at the prop. Of course everything back then was thought of in terms of powerhead horsepower, so maybe mid 200's or slightly higher rated that way.

[Raceman]

Bare in mind also, that the CCC's and 6 cyl RS's were crossflows as opposed to loopers as all the Merc V6's were/still are. I always found that surprising in view of OMC's total domination of the Mod 50 class as well as the other classes that their 3 cyl loopers ran while Merc was still runnin' last with their 3 cyl direct charge motors.

[2.5H]

Bill Simmons did set the CSSH competition record in Ocoee, Fl. at 77 mph with me right behind him. Later I set the Kilo record at Kaukauna WI at 94 MPH which I'm pretty sure to this day is still the fastest stock outboard speed record ever set in any stock outboard class. (The old record was 83 MPH). I went back the following year to try to bump the record up but couldn't get going faster than 92 MPH with all my new tricks. However, while there I did set the E-mod Kilo record with my Super C boat.
The primary problem with the Crescent gears was inconsistent case hardness. I had to re-heat treat the gears so the surface of the teeth wouldn't shatter, which worked well. If any of you run into Crescent lower units with purple gears inside, you'll know it was probably once one of mine.
Brad Snow

[Mark75H]

Thanks for the info, Brad, its great to have input from the guys that were actually there!

Do you have any pictures of you driving the Crescent or any other hydros?

[Capt_Speed]

Hey Brad,
I remember you and that rig! It certainly did run fast and right up there with Billy Simmons. Super C was definetly my favorite Stock class. A very sweet & bulletproof engine! You used to have a good running 250 too didn't you? And didn't you stay at our house a couple times back in the 70's? I remember my father was going to purchase someone's Super C rig about the time that the class started to die out, maybe it was yours.

Guy Conklin

[Travis Fulton]

could somebody give me some specs on the mod 50 some more brain food would be great :D

[Mark75H]

I think Travis is looking for port maps, piston, head and front case part#'s and dimensions

Pretty hard to come by and not much true value for application

Maybe someone here does have that info and could share as a historical item???

[Travis Fulton]

are the mids the same as todays models?? as they were on the c models????

[omc-v4]

There is a micro fish around 1976-7 that had part #s for 3 cyl. 4 cyl & v6 racers. I orded pistons one time for mod 50 they had 1 ring and lager bore than stocker. I think this put them over 50 ci but still legal. The front half is for 2 brl carbs. the exh plates on side of the block are differnt. You have to use different belly pan. also the 75 hp have a different exh. port and tuner than the 70 hp.

[airide18]

Is a mod 50 a 3 cly?

[omc-v4]

YES

[airide18]

Was the mod 50 a popular engine or did it just fade out of the market?

[Mark75H]

The mod 50's were expensive and the class wasn't popular in the US compared to Europe. Maybe only 100 (certainly fewer than 1,000) or so made and most of them sold in Europe.

If you go back to Mr. Gohr's first image on this thread, a lot of questions will be answered:

The mod 50 "CC" engine used a special short mid section, special lower unit and was bored 0.030" over the std triple bore giving 50.7 ci instead of 49.

The engines were called mod 50 because they were about 50 cubic inches, not because they were based on 50 hp models. In Europe mod 50 is known as Formula 3 or F-3.

[crankbearing]

Hi Guys,

I have two super "c" engines, on gas and one alky, I am trying to rebuild the gasser. The block need to be rechromed any suggestions?

I also am looking for rings or pistons or at least rings, would be nice. Does anyone knoe who got hold Dick's inventory?

Regards,

Dave Scott
Vice Commodore - Eastern Canada Outboard Racing Club

[Mark75H]

Dave, I live not far from O'Dea's shop and from what I understand O'Dea never really had any significant inventory of spare parts; just barely enough to get by.

My guess is there is no hidden stash of Crescent parts anywhere.

Piston rings are usually pretty standardly sized, you might be able to find a snowmobile or bike with close enough bore to fit a ring to the Crescent piston.

I think if you have worn through the chrome you are probably screwed on the Crescent. You might be able to have the block bored out and sleeved. Have you considered migrating the carbs and head from the stocker to the alky block to run it on gas?

The really bad news about the Crescents is that there were so very few of them. Probably fewer than 75 in North America if you combined stockers and alkies.

[Raceman]

Why wouldn't US Chrome be able to strip and rechrome the block?

[ken medendorp]

BIll Igot your check need to wait for it to clear .should be able to send your reeds on the 7th. ps I lost your phone no# any questions you can call me at work 616-698-9810 thanks Ken M

[Ron Hill]

I was looking at the 1977 Bakersfield Nationals program and "Brad Show" popped up...

[Ron Hill]

This is a Super C Hydro in action... Jeff Hutchins up!!!

[A.Acosta]

.

[airide18]

Man that is one sweet lookin engine!!!!

[helmetguru]

my dad swore that his 18' Go Navy Cougar boat was the fastest boat he ever drove. here's one of Renato's Saffa boat with a CCC in Bristol 1979...must have been fun to fly around the Bristol docks with all those cubes..

[BASSIN]

That picture was taken by my brother and I when we visited Second Effort years ago. OMC dreamland.:D

[Mark75H]

Do you guys have any more photos you could share with us?

[2.5H]

Hey Ron!
As I recall, one of the perks for winning the 1976 Nationals was getting a very high quality Ron Hill Tee shirt. Mine lasted a lot longer than my Crescent. I went 3000 miles to the Bakersfield Nationals only to break a rod in the middle and cut my block in half. This was a fairly common failure mode so inspect those Crescent rods carefully and often.
Brad Snow

[2.5H]

Hey Guy!
Yep, you found me! Please give my regards to Roy. He is an excellent driver and we really did have a great time racing together! You are also correct that I ran 250 hydro. Right after I stayed with you folks, I ended up with Bill Hutchins's nitro burning Quincy looper that couldn't be beat until I finally blew it up blipping the throttle a little too much on the launch stand.
Brad Snow

[Ron Hill]

Brad:

Your name is right there with me, but can't seem to get a handle on the face. 1977 Bakersfield was a blur. Chad was born on Friday before the race. We brought him to the race on Tuesday. My wife out on all the pre and post race dinners. My dad and Dave Bryan had built the stands and inspection area...I can't remember if I was Commodore but seems I was...Then, I raced five classes and ended up hig Point driver of the 1977 Nationals.

I was also my last Nationals. Won PArker in the Spring of 1978, and really fell in love with MOD VP. Had five rigs in one race at Parker....after going bowling on New Years Eve (First time in 35 years), it was clear to me you can't go back...bowling will never be what is WAS...


On the 1976 T shirts, I may have told this story, but I'd ordered my 1977 supply of shirts through a School Suppy Company and was told they would not be ready intil Sptemeber 1st...As I was about to leave for Hinton, WV, they called an said the shirts were ready. I didn't really want to part with the bread for like 288 shirts, but they told me they'd be tossed if they had to keep them six weeks. So, I decided to pick them up as we were leaving. In a 24" Winnebago 288 shirts takes up some room...

Anyway, got to Hinton gave a few away and sold a few....Next thing I know I've got a "land grab" on my hands...I sold everyone of the shirts at Hinton and really wanted to take some to Dayton to the OPC NAtionals... Seems I did give some as prizes...Seems I paid for my trip on shirt sales....

AND, they were the best shirts (quality and Design) I ever had...My frind who my brother had hired at Mattel, designed those shirts....He also designed Strawberry Shortcakes, Putt Putts and Barbie's doll house....I was also his 44 cubic inch "F" that Erinie Dawe an I ran in the first ever "Piggy Back" "F" Runabout race.....I will post more on "F" Runabout under "Hey, Ron Hill"...not today...

[BK]

Ron ~
I also have a Ron Hill T-shirt story --

On a blind group date, I wore the Hill Marine shirt (actually it was my brothers that I stole). I ended up stuck with a real jerk. While trying to get away from him, I was stepping off his porch and the jerk grabs my ankle -- he tripped me and I landed on the lawn~!

I got GRASS stains on the shoulder of my RON HILL SHIRT! :mad: Man was I angry!!!!

Needless to say -- we never went on a date after that.


Also -- Just last night I was showing my husband some pictures from the 1977 Bakersfield Nat's that I took so long ago. In one picture you can see some boats beside our pit, in the corner of the pic, with " 11-M " on them.

For years, I've always thought that the Millers were parked beside us that whole week (I was just barely 16 then)...... Isn't 11-M Fred Millers number? I think it is!?
So -- Was I right all these years?

Someone on that team cut his leg really bad on a prop (while it was on the beach), and had to be treated by the ambulance. Now I wonder who that was?

[Oclassracer]

Did someone want a picture of this? Its about eight years old.

[helmetguru]

hey cool i'd know that picture anywhere, it was taken at Nottingham, very cool place to race. I managed to get up into that really tall timing tower and watch some races, that was a great place to take pictures...

i have a bunch of F3 pictures around if anybody wants me to scan them and put them on here. whenever i go to europe i usually hang out with an italian f3 team so i manage to get alot of cool shots.

[Mark75H]

Helmetguru did Selva ever make a competitive F3/OE/850 motor?

[helmetguru]

selva did in fact make a decent F3 motor. i was fortunate enough to tour the factory with Maurizio himself back in 95 while in Italy. it's a very cool operation near Lake Como, lots of cool old pictures.

the selva motors were heavy and not very reliable but in 84 Lorenzo did place several times in the top 6 and even had a 3rd in Milan at the season ender.

omc always dominated and still does today.

[Mark75H]

An early Crescent ad in Swedish

[David_L6]

Originally posted by Oclassracer
Did someone want a picture of this? Its about eight years old.

Notice that the exhaust is on the opposite side from the service motor and Mod 50 on that F-3 motor? I've heard about those blocks, but have never seen one.

[Bill Gohr]

the later motors came that way, they made more power being a port bank engine. Way back in the begining, the Mod 50 had the exhaust on the port side and the intake was angle down. What were called Manawa motors, the later ones, the exhaust is on the starboard side and the intake is straightened out.

[bridges]

I have a good picture of a CCC Evinrude in St. Louis around 78 or 79. I'll dig it up and post it.

[bh/]

Bill;
-in addition to having the exhaust on the starboard side, did it not also rotate backwards, ie; CCW?
Why is it called Manawa?
Where was the block from?
I hear they turn them up over 10.000rpm.

[David_L6]

Bill;

I hear they turn them up over 10.000rpm.

:eek: :eek: :eek:


Can't help but wonder how much higher the Mod 50 port timing is than the service motor port timing... :confused:

[outrace]

Gday Guys,
That motor is called an M31 there are a few of them racing over here. A very good friend has one which I know runs up to 9,000 rpm safely. If he goes over that ( which he has ) it lets go in a big way. It is the same bore size as a CC and rotates in the same direction but the ports are all on the oposite side. I was explained by the head of OMC's w/s here in Aus that they found that there was a better flow of gases in the engine with that configuration. these engines are about 20% quicker than a CC. We have guys over here running 920cc engines with the CC straight front on them and they are not even close to the M31.
I like the pics that Bill first posted and it looks like I'm going to have to get the metal polish onto my old CCC now.

Des Maslen
Owner and driver of Australia's fastest Evinrude.

[largecar91]

I Ran Across An Old Dick O Dea Ad In A Magazine The Other Day And He Was Advertising "cresants". I Was Going To Ask What They Were. I Will Try To Dig Up The Ad.

[Mark75H]

Something like this?

[mk30h]

Nice ad Sam.
Nice looking engines. How well did they hold up in the long run? What year did they cease production. Looped charged before Merc or Omc comp engines. Did any of the stock engine have a pleaure/fishing counterpart offered by Volvo penta?
Steve

[Mark75H]

The racers do not hold up well in the long run. Weak lower unit, weak ignition systems. I think there were 3 different factory ignitions; none lasted well, many Crescents have been converted to use a Merc 3 cylinder distributor.

Production ended about 1968 or 69, but O'Dea continued to assemble them from parts as long as he could get cranks and blocks until about 72 or 73. These motors were made before Crescent was part of Volvo. Around 1970 Dick was making this own mid section and selling his Crescents with Merc clamps. If you see a Crescent with raised checkered ribs on the mid, it has Dick's US made mid sections.

Crescent made a number of fishing motors, but none were directly derived from the racer. The 2 cylinder "Bundy" imported to the US from Italy (mentioned in Peter Hunn's books) was a Crescent fishing motor. I guess it was cheaper to make them in Italy than Sweden.

[baja200merk]

the ccc is left hand rotation?

[Fast Fred]

Super"C's" FT 19s
http://aycu20.webshots.com/image/42579/2001186708026637574_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001186708026637574)
http://aycu08.webshots.com/image/41447/2001154018325250602_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001154018325250602)
http://aycu21.webshots.com/image/42460/2001147447110210914_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001147447110210914)
the unknown one:cool:

[Fast Fred]

thay are all standard rotaion.

[vista 88]

Just Curious...What ever happened to Second Effort???? What's the History of the Company
I know it was the performance arm of OMC
What happened in the late days of the history of Second Effort..did they sell off all the tooling and parts just curious

[Mark75H]

Someone can correct me if this is not right, but apparently all the tooling ended up in the hands of Cees Van der Velden in Holland and within the past 2 years came back to the US to reside at Seaway Marine who is producing a few of the parts.

[Fast Fred]

ya thats about it:cool: but it's not like they are crankin them out.

[Riverman]

No kidding. Tried to contact them numerous times with no luck. :mad:

[Fast Fred]

i've sent about 10 or more people over for an 31m front 1/2, no one has got one yet, and for the most part they was all told, can't have it. i don't know,:confused: i have got a bunch of way good stuff from them, would like to see more, thinkin i could build some really cool stuff for who ever:cool:
http://aycu07.webshots.com/image/44326/2001184739235808480_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001184739235808480)
http://aycu38.webshots.com/image/43157/2002021969074580168_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2002021969074580168)

[stock racer]

hey , Billy simmons is down in flordia.. but when he comes back ill show this and maybe he'll let me scan some pics.. I know he was a couple:rolleyes:

[jphii]

No kidding. Tried to contact them numerous times with no luck. :mad:

I've been able to get a hold of them, talked to Jake last week. Matter of fact, a nice box showed up from them last week;)

[PARKER RABE]

thats trick ...the little motor all polished