What was the coolest outboard race engine of all time

[Raceman]

Here's my vote:

[Raceman]

Second place:

[crazy horse]

Sounds about right to me! Heres a cool one for number three.

[Spreadeagle]

drool, drool

[Mark75H]

Here's mine . . .

[Mark75H]

Of course there is this too:

[crazy horse]

Hey you guys notice that all these motors are kinda old! YA BABY!!

[eautosales]

the 1750xs t-3 gets my vote
did they consider the 1500xs a race motor?

[Raceman]

You mean wunna' these?????

[half fast]

I think the Rotary OMC gets my vote.It was said to produce stupid horsepower,but I do not have any pictures.Anybody got any to post.I have seen it with the cowl on but not off.

[airide18]

Man those are all sweet lookin motas!!!!

[Jeff Lytle]

After listening to one of these; 44 Cu. In. Quincy Looper Alky Burner. No match for the Konigs or Crescents of the day, but you got 2 or 3 of these on the water..........You would have to be there to know. UNBELIEVEABLE. :eek:

[Jeff Lytle]

You could volunteer to pull the rope on one of these !! Just being within earshot of a Quincy F Looper was deafening !!

[eautosales]

yes raceman i have one anyone have any race history on them?

[Raceman]

E, there's tons of race history on those motors in the 70's. They dominated the JS (J Sport, tunnels) and JP (J Production, V's) classes. When I bought the first J poduction boat, the kilo record was 79 and it hovered there for several years. I was only able to get my boat to run about 75 and couldn't figure out how the other guys were runnin' that much faster. Gradually the kilo crept into the mid 80's if I remember right. The J Sport boats finally got to over a hundred. I believe that David Lee was the first to bump it way up there, but Doug Pearl was a player in the class also and they were back and forth as far as who was faster. Both built their own boats, David's the Lee Craft, still known today, and Doug's the Scorpion, which probably was built in VERY limited numbers.

The J Sport boats took a quick 10 MPH increase in what seemed like one season and I never knew where the sudden speed came from. In any case, it was exciting racing, relatively safe considering it was pre capsule, and had a lot of participation. Those were two damn good classes.

There was also a third class for the engine, FS in the mid 70's. It was similar to J Production, except it required two people in the boat. Many guys raced with their wives. Can you imagine????? "Slow down, you're going too fast, what's wrong with you, okay.....pull over right now and let me drive".

[action17]

here's mine

[Flat Out]

King of the Hill.
Stingers & Stranglers
CCC & RS
Merc XSs
Elto Quad
460 Racer
Johnson alky burners
Hurricanes & Lightnings
There are lots of cool race motors.Seems like each era and race class had its dominant motor.

[Jeff_G]

If I remember right the jump in speed in SJ was when the cleavers came out. With stock XS power we ran 14 X 28 and 30's Try that now! But ran sweeping 1 2/3 mile courses.
I vote the 1250 BP Stacker. T2 second and the OMC Carb V8 third (F1)

[Kathleen Michelle]

Women can drool too....:) !!!


One question..... about a Johnson....... why are those Johnson's so large? Do they weigh more than other motors ?

[Spreadeagle]

Hey guys-

I might have an opportunity to buy a T2 still in the original crate. the guy wanted 5k a few years back, however I was as poor as a church mouse back then. anyway is it worth 5K

Later
Gary

[Jeff_G]

Not run in the original crate? I would think so!

Kathleen the OMC motors were 90* motors short and squat. The Mercs as pictured were tall inline motors tall and slim. Kind of like comparing Rosie O'Donnel and Cheryl Teague. They both get the job done.... sort of....:D

[crazy horse]

RACING WITH THE WIFE! Can't see that, I wanted to take her deer huntin couple of times. I thought she would make a great decoy. Spreadeagle, I don't know if a T2 is worth 5K, But if this helps I'm glad I don't know the guy. Hate to have to spend 5 grand on a old race motor. I need to build a new barn and 5 grand will just about cover the lumber. Jeff, I can believe that the jump in speed was from cleavers. I swear my comp viper XS was built to run cleavers.

[crazy horse]

Here a shot of a great little motor. Ya know all we need is 12 shots and we've got the, COOL CLAMP-ON CALENDAR FOR 2003!!!!

[Spreadeagle]

didnt Merc make a T4 at one time? some one must have picture of one. I'd bet Raceman probably even has an actual T4 motor or two layin in one of his barns or perhaps in his living room

later
Gary

[Raceman]

Crazy, that 20H is a cool motor. The E Bay reamin' I got last month was buying a 20H, but it wasn't a converted one like the one in your picture. The thing that amazes me about 20H's is that they were built in much larger numbers than the old KG4H and KG7H, yet still command much higher prices. I've seen several original, non converted 20H's sell in the $2000. range in the last year or two. There's a conversion on E Bay right now, with the original mid included also, that's in the 1800's and reserve not met with a lot of time left in the auction. This E bay rip that I just bought is my first 20H, although I've been looking for several years.

[Jeff Lytle]

Riddle me this: Can any of you guys ( Give em' a chance Sam !! :D ) Figure out how the stacks work on the Loopers ? Look carefully, they are almost opposite each other !!
Sam has a neat Jpeg of a Looper block that explains how.
Amazing how O. F. Christner figured out how to make this work all those years ago------We're talking the 60's guys !!

[crazy horse]

RM , I think the price for the 20H engines are crazy but alot of the guys I know just collect the little ones. Here one more shot of the 20 for ya.

[Mark75H]

RM , I think the price for the 20H engines are crazy but alot of the guys I know just collect the little ones.

I agree on the little one man carryable motors being the most collected, but that doesn't explain what Raceman pointed out about the small KG4H and KG7H not commanding the same price as the 20H. 20H's easily out number the 4's and 7's by something like 4:1 and 2:1 and still are in more demand.

The price is not solely based on the number of units but on the number of units and the number of people willing to pay a certain price for one.

Recap: 1000 KG4H's going price around $1000, 1800 or so KG7H's also around $1000...........4000 Mark20H's $2000 and climbing daily.

ps: I like the paint on your recoil more than the paint on your lower unit. Whas up wid dat?

[Raceman]

Sam as far as the 20H's, which in your opinion brings the most $$$$$'s, the converted one like the one pictured here, or the original?

[Raceman]

Spreadeagle, here's a picture of mine in the breakfast room several years ago before the mean old woman decided it was "inappropriate" decor. She learned that damn word from watchin' the Clinton impeachment on tha TeeeV or it'd probably still be in the same place.

[crazy horse]

Sam, If that was my rig that the one thing I would do. That gearcase isn't the one he normally has on that toy. RM, I know what ya mean, My girlfriend asked me if she moves in, Would I be able to find a differant place for my WWII bombsights. I have four of them in my livingroom. I guess don't understand women, With my X wife I could always tell what day it was by how many damn shoes were at the front door.

[1outboard]

check this bad boy out

[Mark75H]

Raceman, I looked back over my list of saved eBay auctions (I keep track of all the significant pieces, sellers, winners and loosers)........converted and very nice original motors bring the same $$$$

As far as popularity goes, converted motors have that "full race" mystique ... like a Stacker ... if you show up somewhere with a Twister and a Stacker, which one will the most people look at the longest and ask more questions about?

[David_L6]

Originally posted by Jeff Lytle
Riddle me this: Can any of you guys ( Give em' a chance Sam !! :D ) Figure out how the stacks work on the Loopers ? Look carefully, they are almost opposite each other !!



Yes I know, but if you want Sam to wait, I bet you want me to wait also.

[Kathleen Michelle]

I just went and found info. on Mr O. F. Christner however I can't quite figure out how to word my answer to this. Would one of you answer it ? It seems the answer is simple but I can't believe it could be simple enough for me to answer. Hope that makes sense.



Yeah I know it was directed to the guys...... I just found it to be quite interesting. Thanks for starting this thread.

[KG4]

Thats easy,The KG4 has gotten more people on the race course than any other motor.Rember the days of 12 elimination heats at the nationals.Very cool and fast little motor.It gets my vote!

[Mark75H]

I'm confused KG4....are you saying that there were more KG4Q's and H's than any other race motor?

[KG4]

No,I meant that it was a very popular race motor in its day and was very affordable to get one.Hey Sam,Did they run the classics at the stock nats this past summer?I havent heard if they did or not.Thanks

[Mark75H]

You are correct without a doubt!

I don't remember if they ran Classics, I'd have to look at Propellor and see. You can read all the articles from each issue at the APBA website. The print version is still a slight premium, because they don't put the pictures on the website, just the text.

[Jeff Lytle]

You're right David, Let's let it ride for awhile to see if there are any other postings for my question about the Loopers. Kathleen, I would be very interested to know where you got your info on O. F. Christner.
Sam, let it go untill tomorrow night, then dig up the Looper block pic and let them know. Facinating stuff guys.

Getting to know this site and it's functions a little better now. It is great, and the upload option is terriffic!!

[Kmilly]

OH my God! Those are some fine pieces of machinery! Grew up around all of em' Brings a little water to my eyes!
Muskymilly;)

[Jeff Lytle]

I sold my last PRO rig to a guy who is from Appleton Wisc.
His name is Marty Stahl, his rigs were sponsored by Jack's Original Pizza. Ever heard of him??

[Kmilly]

Only know of Marty from being a Huge Boat Race Fan! Marty is a Hairy Chested Boy! We used to have a race within 2 hours of Appleton almost every weekend years ago. Now only a couple in Oshkosh and Beloit. Really miss the 3 dimensional world! (too much computor stuff) if you know what I mean!

[Dave S]

Hey Raceman, we have some good home decorations: love seat, coffee table and entertainment cabinet with a JC Penney VCR and a Zenith TV with a shag rug to finish it off. We will ship these items to you free in exchange for your old decoration motor that leaks oil and smells like stale gas.

[Dave S]

The bad thing about Loopers were the exhaust ports. This was because of tight center to center bore placement. When it came to exhaust, they crowded them. Both exhausts went out the same tube. Some people modified this by putting a divider in between the ports. Had there been enough bore spacing they could have twisted the cylinder arrangement and had the ports staggered so one exhaust feeds one pipe. The Quincy Looper was a compromise using Mercury crank and rods; the rest was custom. This was a marvelous achievement for Quincy's foundry or any other hotrod shop. The likes we haven't seen since those good old days. Sorry no riddles. :p

[Raceman]

Dave, I'm gonna have to refuse your gracious offer and hope the ole' gal doesn't see it.

[T2x]

coolest engine of all time?...... That's easy;)

T2x

[QUICKSILVER]

Would the stacks be lined up because each cyl. exhaust on both sides of the block? That way he could tie 1&2 together, 3&4 together and 5&6 together. Sort of like the 6 cyls. share carbs. one carb feeds two cyls. The cyls. share the exhaust, but on both sides of the block. I am just guessing.

[Mark75H]

You have guessed correctly. The reason was to allow both the transfer and exhaust ports to be much bigger than on a regular deflector piston Merc. The exhaust ports are at the center of each pair (top of bottom cylinder, bottom of top cylinder).

[QUICKSILVER]

I was going to let the girl answer, but she wasn't on today. She asked for help. I told her I didn't know but I would figure it out. That would have made her day.

[Mark75H]

Here is just the block of a Quincy Looper. The back of the crankcase is a separate piece on these motors.

This particular piece belongs to our own DaveS, special thanks to him for sharing this with us.:)

[Dave S]

;) Hi Everybody, not only can you share the view of this block but you can now own it too, as it's now listed on eBay, item number 1872326834. Check it out. I'm selling some of my projects.:cool:

[Kathleen Michelle]

That was my answer!!!!!! I knew I should have put what I thought. I wasn't sure and with having no knowledge on this I was afraid to put it.... where did I find my info. I did a search on the internet.

[Jimboat]

Half-fast - here's a pic of the OMC Rotary engine. Can't seem to find my pic of Jimbo when I saw him testing the Rotary. This is Tom Posey's boat/Rotary. The motor put out so much hp that the boats of the day even scared Jimbo McConnel - and he was the best there was!

What a great engine...OMC never solved the problems with the seals between rotors, though.

[Bill Gohr]

goes to the Rotary second the 6 cyl Koenig

[Mark75H]

You mean diesen moteren?http://www.babbittdesign.com/scotti/images/konig.jpg

[Outboards Unlimited]

I am a fan of the Evenrude 450 hp, short leg with a quickie!!!! The T4 is cool too but didnt beet the V8 much. I love the c-6,, but with stacks!!!! and dont forget the Johnson CCC with 6 carbs!

Favorite at this time is the Evenrude V8 race 450 hp.
( but I am a hell of a Merc fan)

[Backfire]

When I was working for Johnson about '74, 75+-, they sent us "out in the field" types, a casette with the Rotary running down in Miami. I never did see it in person, but the sound was not to be confused with wimpy piston engines, it had a growl!
Backfire ;)

[tabararacing]

The coolest motor I think of all time was what I believe was a veldon had (2) 2.0 L champ motors mounted on a custom midsection that powered a single #6 gearcase. I saw it in one of the old UIM magazines. I know a guy who drived it, said they was so much power he could pull the left sponson right off the water.
Brian

[Joe]

Jeff, I can answer that. But I think I have an unfair advantage, I am about 5 minutes from the shop where that paticular Looper is sitting, and have had the chance to look indise of it.

And I agree 100% with this choice fof the best racing outboard ever. And I grew up with my dad racing a 1250 BP.

JJ


Originally posted by Jeff Lytle
Riddle me this: Can any of you guys ( Give em' a chance Sam !! :D ) Figure out how the stacks work on the Loopers ? Look carefully, they are almost opposite each other !!
Sam has a neat Jpeg of a Looper block that explains how.
Amazing how O. F. Christner figured out how to make this work all those years ago------We're talking the 60's guys !!

[1outboard]

BACK in the day , I watched billy seabolt wip the V8s at pittsburgh $50,000 purse on a real rough course reeeel rough sea walls on both sides .The BIG DOGS where all there Veldon,benny robertson,and the two bigest dogs seabolt & Mollinari seabolt was allmost 1 lap down becaus of fuel pump problem early in 50 laper it worked it self out and he was smoken i never seen a boat accelerate like that and his boat was only 15 ft somthing mercury pulled out all the stops that year. eny way billy passed mollinari with like 3 laps left it was wild. Best race ive ever seen. and at the time i was die hard OMC. I have seen alot of good races IOGP , NPA ,ect but that 1 stands out big time !!!! :cool:

[airide18]

Sounds like one of those races that just sticks in your memory forever.

[H2Onut]

M M M Merc

[H2Onut]

Lets do the twist... with a purple wig!

[Ron Hill]

Hi All,

Just got my new email going at my new (OLD) house. Cool thing about this house is it is only three blocks from water...

Al Lytle...sold your last race motor to Marty Stalh??? What year??

My favorites:

1. 6042 Evinrude Six Stud-- C Racing Motor, only fifty were made. My dad had one. Cyclinders were made of almost 100 per cent nickel.

2. KG-4, my first race motor.

3. Quincy Loop 6, Loop 44, Lopper A. Never drove a 44 or a 6, but helded the ARR Kilo with the A. Fun motor to hear, fun motor to drive.

4. T-2X, as pictured here somewhere... Even though I had a V-4 Evinrude Stranger at the time these came out, I loved this engine..

5. The triple C Evinrude V-6, as it was buildt was a work horse. Jimbo MCConnell proved this time and again...

6. The EFI Race V-8's were engineering at it's finest.

7. Mercs 2.0 Liter is probably a perfect engine.

8. LAST NOT LEAST, Mercury Racing's S-3000 is a fine engine.

Ron Hill ronhill@speakeasy.net
www.********************

[mk30h]

Evinrude x-115 from 68, check out the lowerunit- just getting away from OMC's cludge units of the 60's but not yet hub exhaust- and not quite on par with a SSM

[Ron Hill]

How could I forget the X-115. This is the motor that I won the 1967 Chicago to Milwaukee to Chicago Marathon...than I'm in John Crouse's Sea Race Book.

I also won the Havasu Classic in '67 with twin X-115's built by Ray Nydalh. The Gt 115 and X-115 cost Carl K. his job at Mercury.

Carl protested these engines saying they were "Race" motors and NOT PRODUCTION MOTORS. Once Carl lost his protest to APBA. He got pissed off and built the BP. This was a "RACE MOTOR" built to beat the X-115 and GT 115's. The engine did just that. But the stock holders of the corporations only understood bottomline, not marketing. Nor did they care, what the cared about was that Carl stopped the production lines at Mercury to build motors which he gave away.

At the end of the season many dealers were without product, but Carl had a winning motors, and many loyal customers.

But it was this OMC that cost Carl control of Mercury Marine, at least that is the way it heard it froma very reliable source who once worked as chief engineer for Mercury Marine...his mother told the same story.

[Ron Hill]

1. There is a motor pictured here that has a "GRANT" housing. (Loop 44 I think)... Anyone know the first name of Grant and a little history of this Grant???

2. There was a beautiful Mark 20 H pictures, with a "Kit" as we called those "toilet tube" exhaust. By looking at the boat that engine is on, tell me the bring of the boat!!!!

[crazy horse]

Ron ,There's not much of the boat showing in the shots I posted. Here's a better shot of the boat, Sorry if it give to much of a clue.

[Joe]

Ron, the hydro looks like a Flyer to me.

JJ

[airide18]

Thats a great lookin flyer.Look so good with that red paint job.

[T2x]

Ron:

Are you talking about the Chicago-Milwaukee race or the Milwaukee-Chicago-Milwaukee race.....I'm trying to remember which years went which way.

I ran a pair of those GT 115engines in the latter race in 67 or 68 on an 18 Eltro. The year before Linder ran the same boat with Merc's.

T2x

[crazy horse]

Ron, The only text I have on those shots are for the engine. I was told what kinda hull it was but I can't remember for the life of me. Here the last shot I have of that sweet little toy.

[Ron Hill]

1967 was Chicago-Milwaukee-Chicago. It took 3 hours and 1 minute. Cliff Reef's Glastron was ahead of me at Milwaukee but the driver, John Hial (Reef and Hial are spelled wrong), over shot the turn and a "Sawed him off" at the only corner in the race and beat him back to Chicago.

My Glastron delaminated, the steering wheel was in the deck half and I sat in the boat (bottom half), when I'd hit a big wave, which was often in Lake Michigan, I'd have to stand up to hold on to the steering wheel. When I crossed the finish line, it looked like I was wearing the deck around my neck like a collar.

1968, Joe Haybay talked Chuck Kalb into taking his OMC Ride an 18' Sutter and Joe took Chuck's 21' Sutter. Joe beat me back to Milwaukee by about 5 seconds. I always figured I could have beat Kalb. I had tested that boat and told Jack Leek I wanted it for Havasu. That is when Haybay got the idea it was better than the 18'er.

Denis Berghauer was the first one to Chicago that year, in a Schultz, Twin X-115. But the engines would not refire at the OMC Pits, they had no jumpers, and Joe and I didn't stop for gas anyway.

The Eltro with twins won New York to Albany to New York in 1967 but I don't recall the Linder boat that you drove.

[B. Vruwink]

1970 vintage

[Mark75H]

1969 1250 Super BP with an adapter to run the standard Super Speedmaster and set up to run it deep; looks like a second extension under the adapter.

Vruwink, do you have any more shots of that rig? Any idea of the boat maker?

[Raceman]

Sam, I don't think there's an extra extension there. The cavitation plate is cut off and it makes it look tall through there. Unless the picture's foolin' me, there's a trace of the cavitation plate sticking out. The early SSM's had that long box for the exhaust as opposed to the later ones that were higher through there for more prop clearance.

But then again..................it does look awful long.

[Mark75H]

Raceman I think you are right; I think it is just an illusion created by the Speedmaster being cut off flush with the exhaust outlet. I think the unpainted foot adds to the illusion.

[Mark75H]

Hey, Jeff Lytle.......does this motor remind you of something else?

http://www.gumboracingteam.org/images12062002/imatra.jpg

[B. Vruwink]

Regular BP with standard BP twin shaft lower unit--not speedmaster.

Boat is Ron Jones single engine believe it was 17ft long. Was piloted by Tom Stickle all time I remember.

Not as deep as you think--Prop shafts were 1" above bottom of sponsons. As I remember props were about 12-13 diameter.

[Raceman]

Unless that picture's got me REAL fooled, that ain't no BP unit. If it is, it's got some crazy piece bolted in the middle, sticking out that doesn't belong there.

[B. Vruwink]

Agree pictures do not match. I worked for Gary Garbrecht building these motors and boats and can guarantee authenticity of picture and parts. There were two generations of BP lower units as I remember. First had only one drive shaft (very short time) and later units had twin drive shafts with fat housing under water pump for "splitter" gears. Factory boats had pieces and parts that general public never knew existed. A lot of pre-production parts were used that were different from what was sold to John Q.

will hunt for more photos

Think your factory picture is of first generation single shaft unit. There is no "gear housing" under water pump. I can remember clear as a bell when the first twin shaft units came over from engineering or production---top secret--they all had to be tore down and preload on twin shafts checked and reset.

[Ron Hill]

Anyone know this history on this Jones Tunnel? I think this was built new for Rick Keller, of AMRA, pre IOGP. I tested it at Carlsbad, California an pronounced it a "DOG" compared to my Scotti. Rick went out an bought a Scotti the next day. 20:20 hind sight, a good set back could have made it a ROCKET.

The gearcase, to me, looks like what we called a "Marathon" case.
Meercury ran them on twins at Havasu. Renato ran the smaller Super Speedmasters because they were faster, but in four hours a day, of racing, they didn't last (1968) Kitson ran without trouble....Those cases were much like the Number 4 today, but bolted to an in-line. Then again, I could be completely wrong. (On the gearcase and boat)...
I loved my 20' Jones with twin Evinrude (100 inchers), ran Elsinore, Galveston and Havasu with it. Then, the brain trust oif the sport went to single engines and outboards never regained their glory!!!! Something about seeing two or three outboards on the back of a boat to get the fan's attention....Well, off my soap box...back to the prop shop..

[Raceman]

The one in the picture is the last design, used on the Super BP. An easy way to tell at a glance is the housing has the studs going upward into the mid with the nuts on top. The ealier ones had studs coming down from the mid.

Ron, I believe the "Marathon" case you're referring to was the old MC1, sometimes referred to as "1 Speedmaster" in some literature. The easy way to tell them at a glance is the angled exhaust opening under the plate and the large Patent Pending letters cast in the side. Also, the skeg is in a more rearward position. These are excellent cases and we've run em on V6's for years. They were originally designed for Mercruisers with small blocks and were very common on the Twister/Twister1.

[Raceman]

Pictures will fool you, but it appears to me that the unit on the BP on the tunnel has the small propshaft like the SSM and MC1. The BP units used the larger propshaft like all the full sized gearcases.

[Mark75H]

Here is the real deal on the BP lower units: The full shift BP is different from the regular Super Speedmaster; it has 3 pinion shafts, not one like a fishing motor, not 2 like a regular Super Speedmaster. The original 1968 BP mid section was different from the one in your picture, it could not accept the adapter. Your motor has the 1969 only decals and the 1969-70 mid section.

The "crazy piece" is just the regular adapter, it looks funny with the back of the SSM cut off flush with the exhaust outlet. Its the same piece as on the Twister, "Super Six" and T2. The adapter came out later (1969-70), after the poor durability of the shift BP was apparent and after the BP's and X-115's were thrown out of the regular production class anyway. The adapter lets you bolt a regular SSM or regular fishing lower unit to a BP.

A BP can take props up to 12" or so, a regular Super Speedmaster can only use props up to about 9 3/4" without cutting the exhaust snout.

There was an other BP type unit patented by Kiekhaefer, but the one that was sold to the public was patented by Charlie Alexander. Kiekhaefer's BP had the transmission at the top, right under the powerhead and two huge driveshafts. Maybe Vruwink saw one or two of them.

Maybe he can tell us about the "Super Six" too, if he was there with Garbrecht.

[Raceman]

Sam, do you own that cutaway?

[Ron Hill]

Raceman: You are absolutely right on your post.. That picture jogged my memory. It is really hard to believe that Mercury made so many cool pieces.

[B. Vruwink]

Your picture with 3 shafts is same as unit on picture of Jones single tunnel--picture is worth a thousand words--refreshes memory. I was not "gearcase" mechanic so did not work direct on them. His bench was next to mine so got to see what went where and what it did. Was quite a chore to get correct preload on all 3 shafts. Had completely forgot about reverse gears.

History on boat---Boat in picture was made specifically for Mercury Marine---NO Ron Hill involved---EVER!!! If you go to "oh Mr. Warby" post and look at pictures of Jones Tunnels when new you will see a blue Ford p/u with white tool boxes--Mercury truck. I drove that truck from Oshkosh to Costa Mesa bringing engine and all rigging parts. Boat was rigged at Ron Jones Marine in Costa Mesa and tested by Garby Garbrecht at Lake Elsinore---NO Ron Hill in seat---guaranteed never anybody else in seat. As I remember, I then pulled boat to Miami, Florida and it saw its first race in Miami Marine Stadium with Tom Stickle driving. Was involved in accident--do not remember if blew over or rolled--but boat went to either Ohio with Tom or back to Oshkosh. Boat was always a "Mercury" boat--no Ron Hill or OMC involved.
Happy to supply history if memory works.

[Mark75H]

I'm sorry, Vruwink, you are mistaken. The motor in your picture once had a lower unit like the cut away, but does not in the pictures you posted. It was removed, the adapter Merc made was installed and a regular non gearshift Super Speedmaster is in its place. This particular Super Speedmaster has been cut off short (front to back)- - flush with the back of the exhaust snout and the back of the adapter is sticking out the back by itself.


I do not own that cut away. Dave S does; in fact he did the cut away work in his shop. Pretty good work isn't it?

All three gears drive all the time, the transmission and reverse mechinism is not shown.


Hmmmm....anyone know the name of Merc's Speedmaster assembler tasked with setting up all those gear lashes?

[Raceman]

I know that David Steckbauer worked with Merc in the race gearcases way back when and also that he told me that no amount of money would co-earse him into scattering one now. As far as who did it then, I haven't a clue.

[Dave S]

The lower unit on the tunnel picture looks about the size of the MC1. There is a different exhaust snout, just my opinion. When I pulled apart the BP case, it was missing the center needle pinion bearing. From the factory you can see the shaft where it was worn, rubbing on the aluminum case. I wonder how many Merc BP's were missing some little parts?

[B. Vruwink]

Man who worked on gearcases was Chuck Mettner (sp). Believe deceased. Gary Garbrecht recruited him from plant 6 (engineering) to work on BP gearcases and Speedmasters for record runs.

Hate to disagree, but above boat is definitely shiftable BP lower unit. Reason # 1--Boats in S or U class had to shift. Reason #2--Talked to fellow employee from that era and he reaffirmed #1 plus only boats ran with Speedmasters were Switzer wings. He also remember this unit and the fact is was BP unit.

I will research my photo collection to see if can find confirming photos.

[Mark75H]

a BP and yours, side by side.

re: rules......you are correct for 1969, however as I posted, after 1969 they stopped racing them in S and switched to non-shift classes.

Your picture is from a time slightly later than you think. A year or two later they came out with the adapter to run the regular SSM and a lot of racers switched lower units only.

Here is your motor along side a BP. Notice the different exhaust location, different cavitition plate location and different skeg shape. A SSM skeg is almost straight from the front leading edge to the bullet, a BP runs a little farther forward and is curved all the way.

Go back to the cut away and look at the skeg shape and how far forward it goes.

But above all.......Please post more pictures!!!!!!!:)

[Raceman]

Sam, you're right on the gearcases, just as I suspected when I first saw the picture a couple of pages back. One other comment on the adapters. Every Twister, Twister 1, and Twister 2 used this same adapter on the bottom of the housing to mount the gearcase. The bolt pattern remained the same in the bottom of all the housings from the Super BP through the T2 and when the BP case went away, this adapter was required to mount a gearcase.

[B. Vruwink]

Pictures were taken in spring 1969. Your mentioned adapter did not even exist at that time. Contact Tom Stickle and as him if he ever drove Jones tunnel with Speedmaster. Am sure he will remember everything he drove shifted. Ask him when he drove boat at Miami marine stadium and it put him in hospital--summer l969 or before. I terminated with Mercury August-September l969 and all pictures and events are prior to that.

Go to "Or Mr. Warby" post on general discussion and scroll to 3rd of my photos of Jones hulls showing rear views of triple engine boats in water at Parker 9 hour. On right boat you can see the contour of exhaust housing and lower unit to prop shaft. Matches that of above photo. Guaranteed BP lower units. Will post that picture here.

[Mark75H]

I don't care about that anymore! Just post us some more different pictures! Lots of them!

(Not the same ones as on the other thread, we can go to it to see it there, take it easy on Greg's server!)

[HANS O LUEDTKE]

were are some OMC pics!!!!!

[inline6]

I'll never forget my first exposure to the 1500xs. What a beautiful specimen you have pictured here.

Of course, we needed to replace pistons on a regular basis, and idle quality was touch and go.

How does this run?

[crazy horse]

Hey Inline6, Welcome to the board.:) My XS has never idled worth a damn, But then I didn't buy it to fish with anyway. I have the idle bumped up for the SSM and I also don't shift the 2 to 1 gears with the engine running. :D

[Northern Jewel]

an oldy

[Raceman]

I've never had any trouble with the idle on a 1500XS. The one I have runnin' now on a 16 Ally will idle in gear at 600 RPM's continuously.

Neat picture NJewel.

[Raceman]

When I was lookin' at the Parker housing under my old 1000 Merc several days ago, and the way the Speedmaster was whacked on the back to match the housing, it dawned on me that thats probably what's on the stacker pictured above: It looks like a Speedmaster that was previously whacked to use on a Parker, then bolted to an adapter and stuck on that BP housing.

[crazy horse]

RM, It looks like you can see the corner of the cav plate and it does look strait across with a corner as if it was cut off. On my XS with the high pitch props it always wants to stall if I idle it more than minute or two. If I try to putt around a little with it I have to tap the gas to keep it running. The solid mounts really rattle the boat about that time.:D :D

[Travis Fulton]

what are some of the most RARE motors?? are they on this post?

[Mark75H]

The rarest are the 4 (four) only OMC Wankel rotary racing motors. OMC also only made 4 prototype V-6 looper (GP-V6) race motors.

The next most rare motor mentioned on this thread is the Mark75H, fewer than 75 of them were made...about 50 of the lower units are in circulation in the antique circles (2 more surfaced just this week!)

Most of the other motors mentioned were produced in quanities of hundreds, a few were made in quanities of thousands.

The most sought after of all, the mid 1950's Merc Mark20H, was produced in quantity of 4,000. Price on restored 20H's is heading toward $3,000. No other motor, large or small, goes for this much. Most old racers only go for a few hundred if they are complete, less if they have something (anything)missing.


The Merc 650xs was at least 250 motors, maybe 300.
The Merc 650x and 700x and Evinrude Mod50 "CC" and Johnson "RS" probably only 100 each or so made and most are in Europe.

As far as rare race motors, most are not listed here.

In the 30's several racers made 4 cylinder racers out of 2 cylinder racers. These "double PR" motors are very rare, as are the Spanish and French made Sorianno 4 and 6 cylinder racers (over head cam supercharged 4 strokes). Yamato alcohol racers are rare (not the stock gas 80, 102, 202, 302 versions). Fuji and Kinuta from Japan; Komet and Carniti from Italy; Sharland and Watermota from England; Caille and Lockwood from the US in the 1920's . . . the list goes on and on . . . this is nowhere near a complete list

The reason I know these things is because I am constantly doing research on this very idea to write a book on the history of racing outboard motors. It has turned out to be a much bigger project than I had imagined, there were many more motors made in the past than anyone guessed, even the so called experts before me.

If you limit the definition of a racing outboard to a motor completely made by one manufacturer and in a quanity of 4 or more (to eliminate one off prototypes and handmade motors with racing lower units made by other companies) there are still 160 to 190 different models made since 1925.

[HANS O LUEDTKE]

PLEASE POST A PIC OF THE OMC WANKEL!

[Mark75H]

Paris 74

[Mark75H]

cover off

[Mark75H]

another one from Mr Babbitt, Thanks, Buddy!

[Mark75H]

2 more from ads good color, poor contrast

[Mark75H]

The GP & Super "Strang"ler V-6 racers

Good thing Jack Leek wasn't chief at OMC isn't it?

[Mark75H]

Stinger GP V-6 with cover off

[Raceman]

If we're talkin' rare, the T4's gotta be in the group. As far as complete motors, I've heard all kinds of different numbers, but seems like always under 25. Some people have said maybe only a dozen.

[HANS O LUEDTKE]

THOSE ARE GREAT!!! HAVE YOU SEEN ONE RUN AND WHERE MYBE ONE LOCATED I USED TO WORK FOR BAKER MARINE I THE EARLY
90'S FOR 5 YEARS CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THE V-8 OZ RACE
MOTORS, I HAVE SEEN TWO IN BACK OF A SKATER!!!

[HANS O LUEDTKE]

INFO ON OMC RACING V-8'S

[jjmalkow]

Hans, I have that same Popular Mechanics article. I think I was in 8th grade when that came out. I also had a POWER BOAT article that had hotel owner Bll Marriott with 2 V-8's on a Skater. Can't find it though...lost through the years. I think it was 2 or possibly 3. I remember he even had spares the artcle said. Does that jog your memeory?? My father still works at a Dealer where I got the itch, but I cleaned them out of pretty much all old catalogs and info. Cool though...

[helmetguru]

i would rank the coolest race motors as: 1. Rotaries 2. T4's 3. Low Profile Fuel Injected V8 raced '85 and up...somethin about all that power...

[helmetguru]

1outboard - newsflash - no Seebold wasn't at Pittsburgh and Roger Jenkins won two heats and Renato won the final 25 lapper. Since the F1 series dealt out points on heat totals, Jenkins got the first place 9 points with Renato 6, Tom Percival ( dec ) 4, Jimbo 3, Francois Salabert ( dec.) 2, and Luigi Valdano ( dec ) 1.. all three deceased drivers later killed in racing accidents.

boats at Pittsburgh V8 1982 -

165 Renato Molinari
9 Roger Jenkins,
1 Cees Vander Velden,
2 Arthur Mostert,
171 Luigi Valdano,
161 Carlo Columbo,
191 Jimbo McConnell,
10 Tom Percival,
11 Bob Spalding,
12 Francois Salabert,
21 Guido Caimi,
99 Luigi Baggioli,
46 Harry Davis,
284 John Sherlock,
148 Dick Sherrer

[HANS O LUEDTKE]

I WANT TO BUY SOME WERE CAN I FIND
EVEN PEICES
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!
CALL IF YOU KNOW WHERE I CAN FIND ANYTHINE
(847)338-3082
OR VIST THE SHOP WWW.HLPAG.COM
THANKS
HANS



MORE OMC PICS V-8 V-6

[helmetguru]

check this.

[helmetguru]

and more..

[helmetguru]

and still more..

[helmetguru]

and another..

[HANS O LUEDTKE]

YOU ARE THE MAN -HELMETGURU-
DO YOU RUN THESE CALL ME IF YOU LIKE
THANKS FOR THE PICS
SEND MORE!!!

[helmetguru]

and one more, but i have lots more.

[HANS O LUEDTKE]

EVINRUDE AND JOHNSON
THESE ARE AWSOME!!!
SEND MORE OF THE POWER!!!
OMC=
Overgrowen Motor Company

Thanks Buddy
Hans
send more
any close ups?

[helmetguru]

hans go to my site at: www.helmetgraphics.com/scotti.html for a whole group of old shots you will enjoy.

[Ron V]

I'd say it would be a tie between the Johnson TR-40 and the Evinrude 4-60. The Caille racers with the tractor lower units were pretty cool too.

[HANS O LUEDTKE]

DID YOU BUY IT FORM BAKER!!

[Mark75H]

The Soriano/Dupuy

60ci supercharged overhead valve 4 stroke tandem counterrotating props: (everything old is new again)

[Backfire]

Manatees fear that! Coast Guard may want to put a prop guard on that! That's strange enough for the bar scene in Star Wars!
Backfire ;)

[Oclassracer]

Mark75H,
Was that built in the '30s? And why were tractor lower units outlawed for racing?

[Mark75H]

Yes, that was built in the 30's. A 4 cylinder predicessor was built about 1929 with a slightly smaller dual prop lower unit.

Tractor lower units were outlawed in the 50's. I don't know of any particular accidents where injury was blamed on a tractor unit. But it was a saftey concern. I suspect there was some concern on Carl's part that there might be some kind of tractor unit that turned out to be faster than a Quicky and Carl didn't want to have to make one too and be liable for injuries blamed on them.

[T2x]

Emergency Notice.......

I need a pair of 2.5 Liter Soriano/Dupuys.....immediately!


T2x;)

[Capt.Insane-o]

:confused: Pretty crazy for back in the day!

[Mark75H]

Those are the last version of the Soriano/Dupuy as raced by the di Priolo's and their friends.

The over sized Swift Big D was built by Angelo Molinari and they set a record of 83 mph with one of those engines.

With a 4 cylinder power head on the same long lower unit on the same hydro they set the 100.3 mph speed record before Entrop went 107 with the Merc.


Merc's publicity department played down the di Priolo record because the powerhead was custom built and not a production based unit.

[agreynolds]

The coolest motor I ever pulled a rope on was Bob Thornton's 500 cc Johnmaha. It was a Hubble PR crankcase with 250 yamaha cylinders grafted on. He built it to run against the 500cc rotary valve Koenigs and I saw him beat 6 or 7 good ones with it one day at Denton Md. at the Choptank river. It had a B Hubble lower unit and he ran a PR prop on it. Come and see the old iron run at the APBA PRO Nationals in Depue Il. this summer, Lots of PR's and C-service and a few 4-60s.

[Mark75H]

It's not the motor that wins at Denton, but the prop and set up. If you've never been there it is one of the shortest courses anywhere. The straights are about 1,600 ft and the lower turn is a hairpin.

Pretty soon we will race there for the 45th time. When we missed stride there a few years back it was the longest consectively held STOCK outboard race site at 41 or 42 years. There are some alky sites with more consecutive years.

[agreynolds]

I ran at Denton 3 years in the late 80's and early 90's it was great. especially the first turn into the lily pads and then down and under the bridge.

Andy

[Skip Hagerman]

Not bad for 1961!

[Skip Hagerman]

Barry Woods

[Skip Hagerman]

Charlie Strang

[Skip Hagerman]

THE BEAST

[Ron Hill]

Great pictures. Everyone called Barry Woods "King Woods"..but I was the only one that called him that to his face. Barry was a great competitor. He took losing very hard. He was not a poor sport. He just didn't like to lose. He wasn't afraid of hard work. And he sure as hell wasn't afraid to spend money.

Back about the time this picture was taken, Barry and his wife, Billy Seebold and his wife and me and my wife all left Paris to visit Spain. We flew to Portugal and rented cars and drove to Spain. Mike Wellach from Mercury and his wife, too. We had two rent cars and Seebold and Woods raced each other across the countryside...Woods wouldn't let me drive.... and Seebold wouldn't let Wellach drive...

About dark we finally made some city in Spain... We hadn't eaten all day.... Everybody ordered and somehow I was the last one to use the restroom. When I sat down, everyone was just about finished with their tomato and rice soup.... As I started to eat mine I noticed my "RICE" were swimming...... I said, "Hey, did you guyes rice swim?" The rice were maggots..... Everyone about blew chunks.....over that deal..Wellach's went home the next day....racing across Portugal and eating in Spain was enough for them....Woods, Seebold and me...figured enough wine would kill any maggots...

[Laker]

WOW
To see the Wankle under the sheets!!
Very very cool!
Very special pic!!
more detailed history would be excelent!
:D :D :D

[Mark75H]

I think the year on the Lesco might be misleading. The motor was actually made in 1954 and the picture was taken in 1961 when the motor was 7 years old and set the 114 mph Italian national record. I think Entrop had already beaten the Lesco by a fraction of a mph, and soon afterwards Burt Ross inched both of them out with 115+. Entrop's 114 mph record was an NOA record wich would not have been certified by the UIM, so DiPriolo may be in the UIM record book for a few months before Ross's increase.

The Lesco was the first outboard to exceed 100 mph back in 1954.....4 years before Entrop's first record at 107 mph. The Lesco was a one of a kind motor, not a mass produced motor. "Lesco" is an Italian industrial machine company that made heavy tools such as lathes and milling machines, not outboards. The lower unit is the same one seen in some other photos on a Soriano opposed 6. As I mentioned somewhere else, this long unit is the one Jean Dupuy made to replace the dual prop Soriano unit developed by Bonnemaision.


Thanks for the pictures Skip!

SUPER TRIVIA: One of these long lower units was imported to the US for a speed record attempt. Anyone know the details?

[mk30h]

Those Rotary Pictures are Great!

Just think, if OMC had got the bugs worked out (like Mazda has just, look at the new 2003 RX-8 1.3l - 260 hp) there would be no 4 stroke/2stroke controversy. The design has the best of both worlds- light weight and reduced emissions. They would rule the industry if they were being built today with 30 years of refinment to behind them.

In that context- I don't think anyone would be calling a Honda accord engine on a Merc drive unit
a threat. The fourstorke of today would never have had a chance.

Looks like Strang was just a decade or three ahead of his time. The industry needs creative thinkers like Charlie to push the limits.

Too bad that the OMC Rotary works were sold to a minor player- Merc or B should have picked them up for the pittance they sold for.

[Skip Hagerman]

For your enjoyment I've temporarily posted the whole article that contained the rotary pics. The interest here, I think, will supercede the copyright. Bob Zipps article appeared in the April 2001 Antique Outboarder.

~Skip

Evinrude RC (Rotary Combustion) (http://www.infoblvd.net/sah/Rotary/Rotary_1.html)

For you Twister fans:

[helmetguru]

great pics and cool article on the twister2. woods, strang and even hering hugging the wheel in the moly really are great to see...yes too bad the rotary didnt survive, i think the boats these days could handle the four liters...too much for those big O Scottis of the day...

[Ron Hill]

Oh, to be young again. How I'd love to run against Bobby Herring in 457 again. The truth is, I drove hundreds of hours.....It was always a pleasure to drive a race boat.....Molinari's always handles so well. They were so honest. They gave you warning when you getting near the edge..... The LATER Scotti's were that way... But the early Scotti's would bite you big time....

I have to agree...the Rotary today might keep up with my 502!!!

[Mark75H]

How about this 1000cc double König? Dual everything down to the propshaft. Normally the rotary valve and carbs are on the side opposite the exhaust pipes, but putting them back to back required both intake and exhaust be on the same side. König had been making a block with this as an alternate, simply blocking off the side you didn't want to use as intake.

[Mark75H]

A single 500cc (30 cubic inch) König makes over 130 hp. The regular lower unit easily handles the power and 13,000 rpms. To handle twice the power and transmit the power directly to the propshaft Dieter made this special dual pinion lower unit to handle the 275 or so hp. Notice the back driveshaft is exposed.

[Scot Keller]

I sent the attached e-mail to Ron Hill as a follow-up to a posting I read on this site. He suggested that I post a copy here.
-
I saw an old message on Scream & Fly where you were discussing a Jones tunnel that you drove for my father. As I remember the boat, maybe I can fill in the blanks.
The boat pictured in the site is an earlier version of the one that you drove. As I recall, Ron Jones had an arrangement with Mercury to build boats for the factory race team. That boat was one of them.
Rick had successfully built and raced limited hydroplanes in the 50's and was looking to get back into the sport. He had been in discussions with OMC regarding the possibility of fielding a "factory independent" team and was looking to counter program the more conventional hulls of the day. After consideration, he decided to commission Jones to build the boat that you drove.
Rick's connection with Jones stemmed from a life long relationship with Jerry Barker, an original member of the Slo-Mo-Shun team with Ron's father Ted. He had long admired Ron's world-class craftsmanship and design capabilities and reasoned that he could deliver on that idea.
A considerable amount of time and money was invested in developing the boat. A number of significant drivers were commissioned the help in the project including you (you also did the original rigging) and Fred Hauenstein.
After many modifications, the boat proved to be quick but unstable. During prop testing for the Parker 9 Hour, the boat had a spectacular crash and was subsequently retired. After being repaired, it was put in storage before finally being sold.
In the end, Rick took your advice and purchased a Scotti and had a number of big days with Billy Schumacher and Mike Wallace behind the wheel.

[Ron Hill]

Welcome to the board, Scot.

The late Bill Wiles was driving your dad's Jones at Parker on Thursday before the Enduro. The weld on the power trin ram broke and when Bill let off the gas the engine tilted all the way up (Causing no drag), without drag the hull blew over with no fault of Bill's.

Bill was a great driver. He co drove with me once at Parker but I don't think it was the year of the "Jones Crash". As I recall he was hurting pretty bad, having bit ahole in a new Bell Star. Without the Bell Star helmet, I know he would have broken his jaw. But I think it might have killed him.

Bill died of cancer a few years back. He was living in Denver.


While I'm talking about good peopl, your father Rick Keller was tops. For those who never met Rick, he started AMRA. The for runner of IOGP/PROP... He had the NASCAR Plan, problem was, charlie Strang didn't want Rick calling the shots like aBill France did in NASCAR.

Rick was always a good guy to me. He was fair and honest in dealing with anyone I ever knew.

One thing Rick did do, and it made me made at the time. His new Scotti had a hook in the runners. I told that wasn't at all good. So, Rick had Ron Jones take it out. (New runners on the last 14-18 inches).

Because I was racing in Europe, I didn't get a chance to work on my Scotti...I figured for Havasu, I'd run a Paris boat. Something happened...somebody crashed or something but I ended up running my new Scotti. My Scotti was the heaviest Scotti ever built...Makes sense to me, give the heaviest driver, the heavies boat.

Schumaker finished like 3rd at Havasu. I finsihed like 18th...Broke my trim weld too...but I had put a strap on mine so the engine would not trim up...but quite a wide ride with a broken trim.

Changed the runners for Parker and ran 2nd...As I recall, Shumaker blew over late in the day..it was 9 hours in those days...He was ahead of me, that I remember...So does Mrs. Hauenstein, she was our scorer...

[Jimboat]

Wow! How do you remember all this stuff, Ron?

Great stories. Thanks.

[scotti 66]

Dear Ron,
I don't knew that my dad was so funny, he was only skinny: a heavy boat for a heavy, but a very cool driver !
I don't think he had done specially: he always loved you.
My best and kind regards to all,
Massimo Scotti

[scotti 66]

I hope this pic could be attached,
Massimo :)

[Mark75H]

Welcome to Screamandfly Scotti 66!



Scotti 66 is Dr. Massimo Scotti, son of the great Cesare Scotti


(hope I spelled all that correctly)


Thanks for the picture! Hope you have more you can share with us!

[scotti 66]

Scotti 66 is Dr. Massimo Scotti, son of the great Cesare Scotti


(hope I spelled all that correctly)


You've spelled quite clear, Mark 75.
These are my last days of calm: within a week my lectures of II semester will begin at Politecnico of Milan.
Thanks for your kind words.
My best regards,
Massimo:cool:

[scotti 66]

After the entries, the boat winning the 1974 Embassy Grand Prix and the Concourse of Elegance as well: a cool thanks to Buddy for a clean-up of this pic of Cesare/ScottiCraft and not only.
A great thanks to Val Collins for her wonderful Honoring A Legend
The Life Of The Legendary Cesare Scotti on screamandflymagazine and not only.
A great thanks to everyone who love powerboat and remember my dad.
Yours sincerely,
Massimo

[Ron Hill]

Massimo:

My family is planning a tri to your country for this Easter Vacation. We need to be making plans. Where would we fly to to meet you. I'd like to go see Renato also.

The heavy boat was NOT any dealing with your dad. I just so hapened that I got to OMC last to pick out boats...I had been racing my kneeldowners and just got to OMC in late August.

Your father and I never had words. I remember, once in Miami, taking him out on the town and he carried his rop... He wouldn't even check it with the "hat Check" person.

Your dad chose me to drive with him in Berlin, over all other OMC drivers. Scotti sent the evening on Friday, before his twin engine, overall win, with my wife and I. We laughed and talked... boat race language and props.

One night in Paris.....My talking with Scotti lasted very long....Mike Wallace would remember that night!!!

See you soon, Scotti 66..

[Jimboat]

Massimo - you can be justifiably very proud of all the contributions that your dad made to tunnel boat racing. He is clearly one of the great builders, experimentors, and one of the great all-time drivers!

It's great to have you on the board. Thank you.

[Scot Keller]

Ron’s recollection of history is astonishing. He did in fact diagnose the hooks in our Scotti. When modified, the boat clearly went from good to great.


Scot

[Ron Hill]

JIMBOAT:

You ask how can I remember stuff? Well, A.D.D. has been given the name of Attention Defficit Disorder. I call it the ability to focus on things that are important to you and tune out everything else.

Having A.D.D. works out well as a school teacher. I can focus on one person and tune the rest out, if I desire.

Bottomline, the reason I was a great driver, I had great eyesight, reflexes and the ability to focus for HOURS... When I drove the Parker Nine Hour or any other Enduro for that matter, I could tell you the place of the top 20 at any giving time during a race. I never raced individuals. I raced myself. I went as fast as I neede to go to win...or as fast as I could go, safely.

Hill rule number one is to finish first, first one must finish....

The old guy running for Dodge,......ran Fords forever... at Daytona, the annoucers were saying as long as the guys stay lined up expect Elliot to run with them...they get three wide, and he'll go to the back....Older drivers look out for themselves first and their equipment second.....As A.J. Foyt once said, that car can burn but ole AJ ain't going to be in it...


Every race I've ever run, I could almost reconstruct it lap for lap move for move. I made propellers for guys in 1969....I can recall the boat, guys name and everything...sometime just seeing a prop in a box.

Now, what my wife told me to do about a half hour ago, I don't have a clue...ask me about Worchester, Massachusetts, 1957 or Miami 225, 1969....my brain is still there.


998089, 984516, 448916.... serial numbers of my good "C", my good "D" and best "A"...I can also recite the Cremation of Sam McGee by heart!!!

I just have a memory for "Stuff"....



Scot:


We had just decided theat 9 days would be good to do Italy....but you bring Paris up!!!! My fear, at my age, if I got to Paris....that would be all she wrote..I'd just stay....drink lemonnades and watch the world walk by....


What I was going to say about your dad's Jones...if we'd have set the motor back about a foot, that puppy might have worked...Billy Don Pruett moved the motors back on the triple Jones and it "Kicked Ass"..... but no one considered doing it to a single...

[Scot Keller]

Ron:

First, getting lost in Paris, with any drink, is not exactly a problem.

Second, I appreciate the kind words regarding my Dad. He had a great vision and passion for the sport. From racing his boats to AMRA, he truly enjoyed himself.

Scot

[Ron Hill]

ADD HILL MEMORY:

Massimo posted the Elsinore 250 winners. That was October 1973. How do I remember October 1973? Well, at one time, my dad owned 22 acres of Lake Elsinore land. As a lad, I walked the dry lake bottom with my 22 rifle dreaming of a lake to race boats on.

In those days in invisioned a Speedway like Indy. An the boats I invisioned were cab over hydros, even though I'd never seen a cabover, it made sense that running in rough water with a big fuel tank, and man would have to be up fron to balance the load.

To grow up and see the lake filled, my father sold the land so we had money to "go racing", and race in the Elsinore 500, first in 1968 was a dream come true.

In 1973, the race was in October, I had told OMC my wife was going to have a baby in October and I would NOT be attending the European races. Molly Blou, the World's Fastest Woman Outboard Driver was Chief Scorerer at Elsinore. My wife was scoring for me..... Molly thought my wife was going to "POP" any second...Our daughter was born on the day of the Six Hours of Paris...Molly would watch all the scorers...then runover and check on my wife...At the end of the day, my wife and Molly we more exhausted than me... I had just driven the boat... but they had worried all day about racing and babies...

Somewhere, I've got a picture of "Racer" pitting for me...he was about 16....

Everything was going our way that day. My dad had built the motor. I had built the prop and Ted may had cut my gearcase...many of my dreams came true that day!!!!

[2us70]

Whatever happened to Pruett. There is a Yamaha dealership in Lake Placid that I thought might have been his? He had a lot of trouble after breaking his hip in that Jones tunnel. That was an ugly accident.

[T2x]

"Uncle" Billy Don passed away about 10 years ago.........
George Linder, Don Pruett, the Lavins and I worked closely together during the various Jesse James projects.......

Classic Pruett story>>>>>

I'm at a race in 1974 or so. One evening at the bar, there is a wild commotion and a guy lands at my feet, almost out cold.... I look up and see Don looking back at me with his fists cocked..... He winks at me and says "Hi Rayich" (Oklahoman for Rich).

I don't see him for 10 years as he goes off to Europe.

1984 Benihana.......... at the bar. A commotion ensues and a guy lands at my feet....... out cold. I look up and a familiar voice says " Hi Rayich"

You can't make this stuff up.

T2x

[2us70]

I have just got to stop asking about all the guys we raced with. I keep getting answers I don't like.

[scotti 66]

This morning I was engaged with the viva voce exams of Chemistry for Aerospace Engineering. I've just come back to my department from there (one hour of travel) and I've got a great surprise: your messages.
Ron...I'm just joking about the heavy boat.
If you had codrove with Cesare in Paris 71... Mike Wallace (your codriver of that marathon) was a great, but what a crash the codriver of my dad !
I don't meet Renato from many time (Campione 2002 F1 UIM but he kept to oneself) and I'm looking forward to meet you.
Jimboboat... thanks a bunch for your kind and cool words: I'm so proud to "talk" with you and all friends of powerboat planet.
Mark 75H..I have many pics that I can share with you.
My best regards,
Massimo

[Ron Hill]

Pruitt actually got hurt in a Molinari at Havasu. He was up toward the front early on. Then had gearcase trouble, and was playing catch up... He went on right passed the wrong way turn at Havasu.....just as he was setting up for the corner.

I was at an Ohio race and we were at a party at Bill Petty's and Pruitt walked over to some guy about a foot short and hit the guy in the face and knocked him on his ass. The guy got up and just started talking to Pruitt. I don't usually get into fits and try to avoid them, but thought this little guy might need some help. I asked, "wha't up?" Pruitt says, this SOB stole my boat and about, think he said ten more, from a motel the night before some race, and I may kill him if he doesn't do some fast talking......

I decided I'd heard enough and decided I'd go drink my beer somewhere else... I never did see the other guy again...

Pruitt told me he was working for the Old Man (Mr. K.) down in the Bahamas and Carl got pissed off at him and fired him....Don said he had this rented motors cycle, so when he got back to the hotel...now he was fired right? He just drove the motorcycle, without he being on it, into the canal next to the hotel. He then goes upstrairs and packs his bags. As he's leaving the elevator, Carl grabs him and tells him to get his ass back to work. That he Carl, would take the bags to the room...

Pruitt goes down and takes a taxi to the motorcyle shop and tells them someone stole his, he needed another one....Not sure he could make up and story like that!!!

[scotti 66]

Ciao Ron,
the airport more close to Milan is Linate, if you'll start from Paris. Malpensa is the Intercontinental Airport and is staying far from Milan, but if you'll come from U.S.A., the landing is Malpensa.
I have met John Schubert child on September 1972.
He was with Geoff Briggs and Ted May (I think so) in Faggeto (Como), Scotti Factory.
Geoff and John started for the classical "100 miles of Lario", the last european event before Paris.
My mother cooked a typical italian foods for the OMC pilots
Cesare was very unlucky.In the morning race he was second in Sport Class: 50 boats of all Inboards and Outboards classes on the field.
In the afternoon the great race: the engine of my dad broke in the first lap and adieu mes amis.
The problem in the race, aside the great number of racers, was the ferries crossing the field.
Cesare won the race in 68 driving the same boat winning in Berlin and at Lake Havasu (single engine division, second overall against
multiengines competition), 69 and 71 driving a ScottiCraft powered by Starflite 1600 against the outboards and the unlimited inboards (pic attached): average speed of 89 m.p.h.
I like reading so much your cool messages: Berlin 71, Parker Dam 72, Havasu 72, Saint Louis 72/73, Elsinore 72, Paris 73, Windermere 73...wins, second, third places attained by very great drivers from USA and by Scotti boats.
I've loved always this strong blend.
Yours sincerely,
Massimo

[T2x]

Pruitt....part 2 of the Ron Hill-Rich Luhrs "Dueling Pruitt tales"

1986.......Treasure Cay, Bahamas.... Inaugural race for the 35' Jesse James..... and there is no helicopter to film the boat from. Don says " no problem come with me"...and three of us pile into a Cessna. Don proceeds to fly the entire race with the flaps down, the nose up and the stall warnings screaming....... At one point , I swear the plane seemed to drop backwards.

After we landed, I told him (a) I would never fly with him again.....duh!....and (B) I needed a gun to shoot him in the head (just to get his attention).

1969.... Smith Mountain Lake....... Pruitt driving a triple engine Jones. He blows a powerhead.......... comes into the pits and screams at the Merc guys to change the thing....... This does not go fast enough to suit him....so.....he picks up a sledge hammer and whacks the powerhead off......with one shot...... I believe Carl fired him that day too!.

T2x

[Ron Hill]

Truth is I was always in "AWE" of Pruitt. He seemed so Worldly. He spoke Italian with the Italians... He seemed to know everyone. For a Big Ass guy, like me, he seemed to make the little boat hum.

He and Jimbo McConnell got along so well together, you'd have thought they were brothers... Jimbo is half American Indian... Jimbo and Pruitt wearing those hats with the Indain Beads... He was a fun guy to be at the races with, so was Jimbo....

I heard that he was racing in an Offshore race and they broke a prop blade... Pruitt stripped down nude, jumped in, with sharks circling the boat, changed the prop, got dressed and finished the race... Is there a change he was racing with Roger Hanks? Or did I have the story confused???


Roger Hanks was another one... His Blondie, once broke a steering in went right through a spectator's boat.. no one was hurt. He used to have a big Molinari Tunnel with an IO and he'd come out west and race... He said, "He was one lucky sum bitch. He'd have his men and equipment spend one to two years figuring out where Earl (OIL TO TEXANS) might be. Then, they drill and man if they hit EARL, they was lucky sum bitches" Of course, he'd spend about 2 million before he drilled... Roger and Billy Don Pruitt would start telling stories and I didn't know if they were drunk or crazy. But they could tell some stories...


Massimo: Wife went to Triple A to day... Middle of April we'll be in Italy...Lake Como... Renting a car and going to cruise for about 9 days... Hope like hell to see you.. I would like to see Renato, also!!!

[scotti 66]

Hi Ron,
I'll send you my phone number of Monza: I 'm waiting for you.

About the old Molinaris, Cesare and Renato codrove in Milan-Six Hour 65 and they won the Trophy Shell for the best index of performance.
The boat is a Molinari cat, like that of pic taken at "100 Miles of Lario" 65, featuring Cesare, powered by Mercury: i'll send the pic as soon as possible
There were 50 drivers from 500, 700, 850, 1000 and 1500 cc, both cataramans
and V bottomed (traditional=tradizionale italian word). Cesare and Renato
ran in 850 cc, won their class and were third overall.
The average speed today could make laugh: 74 km/h for Cesare and Renato and 83 km/h for the winners.
Cesare won the overall race in 66, 70, 71 (last edition) and was second in 1968.
The average speed of Cesare 71 was of 120 km/h circa.
He beat Fred Miles, Jackie Wilson, Bob Spalding, Tom Percival, Cees and Renato.
From 72 the name was G.P Fiera of Milan: the first winner was Bob Hering ahead Cesare, fourth Rasini (the flying bankier), fifth Sir Tom Percival, sixth D.Schulze, eighth Velden and twelfth a young Michael Werner. Renato got problems of carburation and was classified fourteenth, Spalding retired.
Bob Hering came in Italy with 8 mechanics and the race lasted for 100 km, featuring ON,OI, OF and inboards on the Idroscalo: the average speed was 83,5 m.p.h.=134 Km/h.
We attended two races for Sport Class as well.
In 1973 Cees won with an average speed of 144 km/h.
Have great days,
Massimo

[Mark75H]

Due to time (1960's to now) and place (Europe and US) some addtional tech translation might help less technical readers. When Massimo tells us "850, 1000 and 1500 cc" he is refering to 51, 61 and 92 cubic inch classes. 1500 and "OI" = I or 89/92 ci class in the US. 1600= J or 99ci.

Until 1969 worldwide UIM classes only went to OI and the then new 99ci Mercs weren't allowed to race outside the US. Buddy or Rich can correct me if I'm wrong on the following: in 69 UIM opened up a class larger than OI called "ON" for bigger motors. Instead of just creaping up to include the US made 1600cc/99ci motors as a "J" class as the US APBA had done, the next higher UIM class included motors up to 2000cc; a logical progression over the 850, 1000, 1500 cc classes. It was a few years before OMC and Merc made V-6's so their 1600cc/99ci V-4's and inline 6's ran as kings of the hill in ON for a few years.

Still farther clarification: 89ci OMC's were the standard 100 hp motors and the 116.2 hp 1967/68 X-115 and GT-115 racers - 92ci Mercs were the 89ci 100hp and 92ci 110 and Merc 1000BP motors. The APBA J Mercs were the std 125hp motor and the 140/155hp Merc 1250BP. UIM ON motors were the 99ci X-115 and GT-115 at 125+hp (still designated "115" though) Massimo mentions one of these as a "1600" and the 99ci Merc 1250 Super BP. Later on in "ON" the OMC motors were the Stinger and Strangler racers and the Mercs were the first version Twisters and the Twister-1's. Merc used -1, -2, -3 etc to designate a slight change in a base motor continuing in a series. In the 50's there were KG9-1's, Mk40-1's, Mk55H-1's........in the 70's & 80's the "Merc 500" 'dash' series goes up to something like -6.

[scotti 66]

Yes Mark.
We could make this equality for late sixties and seventies:
OE=850 cc=F3; OI=1500 cc=F2 (once; now OI class is disappeared a long time ago); ON=1500 to 1650 cc and then 1500 to 2000 cc=F1 (now F2); OZ over 2000cc=unlimited outboard, (now practically F1).
Cesare won the Italian and European Championship of OI class in 1968, but I think the boat winning in Como, Berlin and Havasu (single engine division, second against multiengines competition) was a Evinrude 115 hp of 1600 cc: I get somewhere the exact swept-volume.
We can consider Cesare the first ON World Champion (# 47, Havasu 68, the yellow on the right) and UIM thinks it as well.
Yours sincerely,
Massimo

[T2x]

A confusing anomaly here is that while a single 89 cu.in Merc was an "I" class motor........two of them on a boat raced in "JJ" class not "II"..

T2x

[scotti 66]

I have put the start of Milan 73, featuring, among the cloud water, Tom Percival, Bob Hering, Cesare (super Strangler), Renato...
Now two pics of my dad at the cost of one:
a) 100 Miles of Lario 65, the Molinari cataraman built at that time;
b) Cesare driving a V-bottomed Molinari. The engine was very famous over here in the sixties and seventies, Carniti motor.
Have a great weekend,
Massimo

[Mark75H]

Massimo, I have heard of the Carniti motors famously raced by Carniti, Del'Orto and Vassena. Can you tell us more about the motors and these men sometime? Do you recognize the name Angelo Bossaglia and Komet motors?

Thanks :)

[Ron Hill]

Massimo,

Tell us and show more about everything!! The pictures are classics..


Where is the Selva Outboard plant from? I may wish to visit it when we come in April...

[BK]

Ron,

Too bad you weren't in St Louis last year --- I had the pleasure of meeting and hanging around with Massi all weekend. The biggest surprise was going to the hotel lobby to meet Massi and seeing him wearing HIS DADS OMC JACKET! wow.

I'm hoping we can do it again next year. :)

You going to be there next year?


Val

[BK]

I took some other pics too.......

Here's Massi and Harold Simburger.....

[BK]

Massi and John Schubert.....

[BK]

Massi and boat builder Rick Hoffman.....

[BK]

This is my favorite...


Sons of the two of the greatest racers and boat builders of all time......

Massimo Scotti and Tim Seebold......

[BK]

Group shot inside the "Champboat T-shirt" trailer...


hey......who's that dude on the left????

;)

[scotti 66]

Hi Mark 75,
sorry, I don't know so much about the Komet Motors.
About Carniti, the factory was very famous over here. He stayed in Lecco,
Lake Como. I got in Faggeto Lario a cool coloured poster of boat powered by
Carniti (I think Vassena testing on the Lake Como), but now I don't know
where it is. However I get the pics in Monza.
Sergio Carniti was O 500 W.C. in 1963. Now the factory is closed.
Angelo Vassena, after the closing of driver race in 1979, became a President
of Italian Federation and at present is a Honorary Senior Vice-President of
U.I.M.: he was the Continental Champion of class OF and SF in the early
seventies.
He drove also in Milan for OZ W.C. , won by Mr.Bill.
About Luigi (Gigi) dell'Oro, I know he got a very long career of driver and
won many Continental titles in OA 250 class (1955, 1964, 1972) and one in SE
class (1973) and then...nothing.
Have great days,
Massimo


[

[scotti 66]

Dear Val,
thanks to have putting the pics of Saint Louis 02: cool races and great company !
I would love to send you my hearfelt thanks for the Honoring a Legend and not only.
Your friend,
Massimo

[Scot Keller]

Massimo:

Cool Evinrude “Strangler” jacket! Given all the things that went to the bin over the years, I’m glad I kept mine.

Scot

[scotti 66]

Hi Scot,
I get someone else, 72/73/74 and the suites of Cesare as well, from 68 to 74.
I've scanned again (not too clear) the entries of Cesare Scotti Trophy: it was a battle for three, Renato, Cees and Bob Hering.
The winner was Renato, lapping fastest at 110 m.p.h.
Cees and Bob got a mechanical troubles in the second heat and they retreated.
The drivers came from Amsterdam 3-Hour, victory gained by Renato.
Have fun,
Massimo

[scotti 66]

Hi Mark,
I have found a pic taken in 1971 at Paris Six-Hour.
It was of crew Vassena-Dell'Oro, winner of SE class driving a Carniti 65 hp, Clerici boat.
Cesare lapped fastest at 90 m.p.h. circa, but his codriver crashed against another boat.
Enjoy !
Massimo

[scotti 66]

This is the Italian Ad featuring Carniti engines for 1973.
There were three diesel models as well.
Massimo

[mk30h]

Great photos!
Nice to see some of the european engines. Looks like Merc clamps and lower unit on the 45. Did these engines become the Selva(sp) line? Would be great to see the whole brochure posted- a bit at a time. How many cylinder's did the 45 - 100 have? Looped charged?
Did they have a racing lower unit on the performace models?

Hope it is warmer in Italy than it is here- low of
-26 C tonight.

[scotti 66]

Hi mk30h,
according to my opinion, the best Italian mark in absolute! It fought like the most greater American products without disfiguring both on the market
national, both, above all, on the fields of competition, but not in ON/OI class.
Struck to die by the energetic crisis of 1974, also with a range of
the first order (it was the first factory to the world to authorize the mixture to the 1% and
among the few to propose the motor Diesel), the factory failed in 1980 after a slow
agony as OMAB-Carniti.

The whole material (machineries, moulds, projects), it seems me, is taken over by Selva plant... and I think that the thing has quite contributed to the
successes and to the " Know-How " in the races that today can boast the mark
of Sondrio.
To be continued...
Have fun,
Massimo

here only -4°C tonight

[Scot Keller]

Massimo:

It’s great to hear you have so many important items from your family heritage.

In addition to campaigning Scotti hulls, my father Rick admired your father personally. His untimely death had a significant impact on him.

Scot

[BK]

Scot,

Even though I was just a little girl, Cesare Scotti was my first boat racing hero. At age 7, I attended my first boat race - The 1968 Lake Havasu City Outboard World Championships. Cesare won! And each year thereafter I cheered Cesare on.

I was absolutely devastated when I learned about his accident in 1974. My hero was gone.

In honor of the legend, I named my dog "Cesare". (Pronounced Chez Ar Ray)

Imagine my surprise when I was on a USENET board a few years ago and saw a message which said "Does anyone remember my father Cesare Scotti?"

I was thrilled to meet his son -- and I wasn't even aware Cesare had any children!

A little over a year ago, Massi sent me quite a bit about the life of his father -- and that's when I wrote this article:

Honoring A Legend
The Life Of The Legendary Cesare Scotti

http://www.screamandfly.com/screamandflymagazine/Scotti.html

[Scot Keller]

Miss BK:

I vividly remember reading your article, which I discovered as a result of a web search. I applaud your effort.

While I was a little older at the time, the heady days of Havasu and Parker made a great impression on me. My involvement in racing has continued, but that period was my favorite. Judging from the reaction to this great site, I assume I’m not alone in that thought.

Like you, I was also devastated when I learned about the death of Cesare. I have the good fortune to spend a fair amount of time in Paris where I often reflect on his death when I’m near the Sein.

Scot

[Raceman]

Scott, I've been curious since you started posting if you're related to the Keller Speedo.

[Scot Keller]

Raceman:

No, I’m not related to the Keller hardware engineer/manufacturer. I’m the son of Rick Keller, boat builder, racer and founder of AMRA.

I recently discovered Scream & Fly and really appreciate the site.

Scot

[Ron Hill]

I enjoy Screamandfly, too.

I my opinion, Bill Schumaker should be included in the top 50 all time great drivers... In 1991, I wrote an artilce of the 25 All Time Best Drivers, and will post it here later... I have been going to change it to Top 50.

Billy Schumaker in Lil Bill won JSR and ASR at the 1955 Nationals in Devils Lake Oregon. I was eleven at the time and racing AU. My dad had lied about my age for local racing but wasn't about to send me to a Nationals when I wasn't 12.

We did LOAN my motor to Bobby Parrish from Bakersfield who ened up getting 3rd with two seconds...

When Bill switched to inboards he starred in 280 and then drving the Ed Karlesen designed Miss Bardahl he won the Gold Cup in Detroit...

Saftey was always on him mind after Tommy Fauits death and his big crashi in Miami... The rudder broke on a new Jones and Billy came out of it hard but alive.

He did well in tunnels, but he came in after the twin and triple era, and didn't stay long enough, in my opinion, to be called a GREAT TUNNEL DRIVER.... I could use the Parker "BLOW OVER" and the "ELISNORE" Barrel Roll as proof that he made some errors, which many of the greats never made.

Billy had skills, I won't argue that.

Did you know I loaned him an A engine in 1957 at the APBA Nationals in WORCHESTER, Massachusetts AND THAT his sister, Barbara, I think was her name, she raced too...

[Ron Hill]

Scot:

Mike Wallace, all the skills a boat racers needed Mike had.

You cousin Tommy Keller was a MIKE WALLACE FAN/CREW Member forever.

Being a "RICH KID" from Arrowhead Ski Race Club always casued Mike some trouble with us working class types. But the Tiny Tim GRAND NATIONAL TEAM was ledgendary. Tim Wallace had Bill Cooper drive, Cooper would get way ahead, somewhat like he did for Mike Reagan in the 1967 Havasu Classic, then Cooper would turn the wheel over to Mike for finish and win.

Mike was a good driver in GN, but Mr Wallace always had the VERY BEST STUFF... Jerry Gilbreath, to this day, credits Tim Wallace for teaching him that being prepared for the race is everything and not prepared the day before...A YEAR AHEAD...

Mike was just a kid working for his dad on TINY TIM, so it may not be fair to say what kind of a driver hhe was. Maybe, he was a lot better than I credit him, Seems they won Parker when it was NINE HOURS.

When Mike got into tunnels, living less than 5 miles from me, we became pretty close, We drove Paris together and Parker together. I sold his brand new Scotti V-6 hull to Bert Hines in Australia and my dad rigged it and Burt led the first lap of parker with Mike's old (new) Scotti...


MIke may have pulled out of tunnel racing for the same reason I did. By 1973, I knew someone was going to die and I didn't want it to be me. I had been asked to drive Paris and Berlin in 1973, but passed both becasue my daughter was born on the Sunday of the Six Hours of Paris.

Mike may have quit because we did talk a lot. Mike never made in major mistakes in tunnel racing, but I will tell you that in 1971 he started Paris because it was his boat. I took over at an hour and a half and we were like five laps down, I drove my ass off and set the Index of Performance Record (Most improved speed of the last years speed), and at three hours I was two laps down and OMC would notlike Mike back in the boat... I drove the next hour and a half, and was in second, I s took the lead with 20 minutes left and broke and crank with 15 minutes left.....

I always felt, had I started the race we could have won easily.. Mike didn't know Paris like I knew Paris. I ran so close to the sea walls I wore holes in the sides...You could not run the middle of the river, too many slow boats, you had to run the sea walls and bounce off them now and then.

Maike was damn good though, and had he stayed and raced caosules, he mike be included in the top 20 all time, the Top 50,too... Just my opinion!!!

[Ron Hill]

Let's see. Dino Kotsonis moved to California and started his practice in Sports Medicine. He wanted to race tunnels in the worst way and had the money to do it. I sent him to Dick Sherrer and told him I never wanted to talk to him agin, becasue he was going to be dead anyway from driving tunnel boats with no experience,


Well Dino lasted about 45 minutes at paker and blew over and luckily only broke his leg.

About his time an old friend, Ted Zahorski called and said he was working for Yamaha (He still is), he was looking for a cheap boat so he and Brain Daley could run a tunnel boat witha Yamaha.

I said call Dino and buy his Seebold that he'd just crashed, that it was Sherrer's last year's boat. They bought the boat on payments from Dino. Ted rigged up and Yamaha V-6, made it a cross way reed motor and made a V-6 "Club Foot" with a cone into a tunnel boat motor and I built them a 34 inch prop. Now keep in mind, Ted raced APBA Stock before he started being tuner for motorcycles.

He was so good at being an independent, Yamaha hired him. Ted knows engines, just never ask him the time, becasue he will tell you how the clock works, how many clocks ther like that one and...I tell him, just tell me the time....

Ted helped Yamaha built their race lowerunits, their dual plug heads...

And Brian and Rick Hoffman of Hoffman race boat won Parker. HE also ran the Formula One Series when they had V-8 and such....

But no one eversaw Brian drive like equipment to compare his real talent. I know hh is one of the most talent sign painter in the world. He does Funny Cars and such all the time... Any boat he's ever lettered looks a million..


Brian and Tammy's son drove Chad's J boat after Chad was too old... He won about 20 straight heats. They own Expect A Lot Signs in Ontario, California. Dennis Daley, Brian's brother ran PROP FORMUAL ONE for 1997 and 1998.

Wonderful people but Dennis nor Brian would make my Top 50.

I'll probably never get FREE BOAT LETTERING AGAIN and DENNIS WILL NEVER LET ME GO SURFING WITH HIM WHEN HE TAKES HIS '61 CHEVY...

[helmetguru]

hey cool stuff with the carniti's and other pics Massimo, glad you found this place, lots of cool stuff for those of us that live tunnel boats.

[scotti 66]

Dear Val, Buddy, Ron, Scott and all,
glad you like my items.
Today, tomorrrow and on Friday I'll be very busy with my lectures, but I would like to send a few techincal notes about the Carniti engines, very dominating in the late sixties and early seventies in racing classes (and pleasant boats as well) from 500 cc to 1000 cc.: very interesting in my opinion.
I must run away to give a lecture of Chemistry II for Materials Engineering.
Yours sincerely,
Massimo

For the time being...
my dad made, like a present, this engine (or similar) when I was child. I get an old boat.
During the " 100 Miles of Lario" 72, the boat of Dell'Oro, Carniti Factory, went over the Ferry waves and it crashed. Me and Alfredo Dondi (an amateur, but fast racer of Evinrude Italy) brought back him to Scotti Factory.

[bikeboymike]

any one have a cleaver for a small evirude around 6 hp

[scotti 66]

Hi Bikeboymike,
I get the pics, from Evinrude Italy brochure, of famous 6 hp (Fisherman), 4 hp (Minitwin) and 2 hp (Mate) as well.

I introduce you the two more famous models of Carniti Factory for pleasant boats and inflatables, used for powerboat racings in classes 700 cc and 850 cc, all with double carburetors at fixed jets.
It deals with the 45 hp (695 cc, two cylinders) and 55 hp (824 cc, two cilinders), which attained 65 hp and then 70 hp for racing class: a straight-three engine.
The strong press of these motors allows the normal boats application from
the 5 to 6 meters. The underwater unit of propulsion, that at first sight it would seem
of excessive dimensions, is instead the point of force.
From the hydrodynamic point of view the results are positive on all accounts. The great
diameter of prop, allowed by reduced ratio, avoids
every form of cavitation and it allows a noteworthy push under load.
In the novelties Carniti the starter and its relative commutator are completely watertight, while the flywheel ring gear is made of steel. The overload cutout has brightly come up to the
expectations: the elevated pollution of the waters, where the use of the
motors is more spread, has created the request of this kind of device
and it’s something more to be underlined.
Other safety detail is the side spy for the control circulation water
cooling.
Subsequently the system of recycle (fuel-saver) of the unburnt mixture at slow running has been improved to the purpose to mostly contain the consumption and accordingly to reduce the power of pollution.
New is the outlet sketch of the exhausted gases to a minimum speed , gotten with a special silencer sound-sealed with water, that eliminates the exhausted back pressure of gases and it facilitates the starting.
The fairing has a more rational and sure block at frontal lever.
The shaft drive is of new line together with the push rod that has assembled over a ratio motor-prop 12-32.
The models 65-80-100 hp, besides all the preceding technical characteristics, are supplied with a silent-block to subsequently reduce the noisiness and the vibrations to a minimum.
The 100 hp was a straight-six engine, not too winning. From Propeller, November 70: “ For the first time in OWC history, two foreign engines are enterred. These are a pair of monster six cylinder power plants entries from Carniti Motors in Oggiono (Lecco, Lake Como), Italy”.
Have a great week,
Massimo

Cesare Single Engine OWC, Havasu 68.





[

[scotti 66]

A little surprise, signed by Evinrude,
Massimo

[BK]

Massi ~

The picture of your father drinking the Pepsi in 1968; That was the very first boat race I ever attended, and Cesare Scotti was my pick to win the Havasu Classic Outboard World Championship. I remember after the race, I was clinging to the chain link pit fence (at age 7) trying to figure out which winner in the crowd below was Cesare.

I remember hearing Cesare being interviewed -- but I couldn't understand Italian. I remember the announcer said some joke but I can't remember exactly what it was -- everyone laughed. (maybe said that he was pretending not to speak English so the announcers would quit bothering him..something to that effect) I stood there until everyone in the pits was gone.

I remember wishing there was some way I could get someone to give me a pit pass to get in there and congratulate my new hero.

Thanks for the memories, Massi!

Are you coming to St Louis this year?

Val

[mk30h]

scotti66
Love this racing history. In the 60's and 70's the sport had a aura which seemed to match Grand Prix racing. Now it just seems a corporate event without any real rivalry that would hold the interest of the public.

The promotion of Offshore just boggles the mind- who can see it, and more importantly who can relate to it. Not the kid with a 10ft homebuilt. Maybe a few stock jokeys and brokers but really who else?

I'd love to see a few pictures of the 6 clylinder engine with a few specs- never knew they existed on this side of the atlantic. Thanks for bringing this history to life.

It was minus - 26 C here yesterday and -42 C in Ottawa (the capital).

[scotti 66]

Thanks a bunch, mk30 h.
I should get, somewhere else, other pics of Carniti and six-cylinder boat as well.
I'm remembering an image of this engine without box, driving by Angelo Vassena (I think so): I'll looking for...
Cold days over there: here 4.15 p.m.)...10°C.
Yours sincerely,
Massimo

An old pic taken in Auronzo 71, ON World Championship: the day of OK Corral introduces Cesare and Renato

[BK]

wow...

For some reason, I always thought Renato was taller than Cesare! Guess I was wrong! Thanks for that fun pic, Massi.

As far as not being able to relate to race boats --- the Havasu Classic of 1968 was probably the most exotic thing I had ever seen. Those boats didnt resemble anything I had ever seen in my life - the exotic-ness was probably the attraction for me.

Also - The Havasu course was half obscured by the spectator point. You really could only see the front straight, as the course was 3 miles around in a boomerang shape. After the right hand turn, the boats disappeared. If you had binoculars you could catch them again as they came back across, heading for the farthest turn about a 1/2 mile out across the lake.

There were so many boats that each boat had to provide its own scorekeeper --- each scorekeeper sat in order in the judges stands next to the judges and announcers.

The scorer usually had her boat number taped to her hat --- or sometimes on a plaquard around her neck. This was the only way the judges and announcers could tell who was in what position -- by the positions the scorers were sitting in the bleachers.

It was up to the scorers to be sure they were sitting in the correct position --- you had to write down each lap as the boat crossed, using a clock that was on the ground in front of the stands. As the scorer documented each lap - she was obligated to check the time of the scorer next to her - to see if they should change positions. (chief scorer Molly Ballou called it "Musical Chairs").

Scoring the Havasu race was a piece of cake -- but the Parker Nine Hour was BRUTAL. (especially if you didn't have a relief scorer to come let you take a break). You only see the boats for a short time -- They only come around once every 7 minutes - and then they are gone - seven miles down river.

Sitting in COLD hard bleachers for 9 straight hours is extremely painful, but I actually managed it several times. I could take a bathroom break in less than 5 minutes, and be back long before my boat came around again! :D

Risky, but worth it!


BK

[scotti 66]

Great story Val.
You should think that in sixties and seventies the "100 Miles of Lario" was sometimes of 25 miles across the lake: only four laps.
Anyone of the organisation thinked to change: eight laps and more fun for public on the docks and on the water: many pleasure boats staying on the field.
Thanks again for everything.
Your friend,
Massimo

Scotti Craft for Rotary engine, 1973.

[Mark75H]

Massimo, what a great picture of your dad and Renato!

I hope you don't mind if I ask some personal questions.
Were they close?
How well did you know Angelo?
Did anyone else in your family race boats?

[Ron Hill]

Mark 75 H:


Molinari Shop was next door to Scotti's Shop... at least that is what I heard... If Renato had orders everyone, went to the Molinair shop. If Scotti had orders, everyone (employees) went to Scotti's shop.

From what I heard, too, they had this damn dog that everyone played with. If they would have gotten rid of the dog, they could have built the boats much faster... But everyone played with the dog...

They could build these boats fast. Georgio Molinari, blew over on a Wednesday, just as they were quitting testing and heading for Paris. They repaird the boat and were in Paris Friday. Almost a total rebuild...

I always believed they both spoke the international language call CASH!!!

[Mark75H]

OK, now its Massimo's turn.......

Massimo is there any truth to what Ron heard?

Do you remember the dog's name? Did you ever throw the stick for the dog? Boat building shops usually have no shortage of little sticks to throw for dogs and here in the US.... little boys, dogs and sticks are hard to separate

[Ron Hill]

My wife worked for TWA and we got these tickets, one years, 68 cities for $68. Barry Woods and Jim Briggs and us were going to got to Scotti's shop between Paris and Berlin.

Well, the way our tickets worked is we went "stand by" and every flight had to begine or end in Italy.... By the time we got ready to go to the Boat Factory, it was time to head to Berlin.

All Jim Briggs and Woods would tell me is the guys would throw a stick to this dog...can't remember its name, then they'd glue some parts on a boat, then throw the stick... Baryy had ordered like five boats, and said if he'd have shot the dog the boats would have could 50 per cent less...

But I know how boys are with dogs, I have a golden Retriever...In fact here she goes now wanting to take me on my nightly walk...

Oh, Sorry Sam, thought you were asking me!!! Would I, Ron Hill, make up a story???

[Ron Hill]

ADD to BK's Parker Scoring... We'd come around the corner at Blue Water and the scorers were right as we come of the corner. So as the day wears on, I always liked to know what palce I was in, so I'd drift her wide and my wife would hold up here card and I could could how many women were ahead of her. As the day continued, I go wider so I could see who'd wife/girl friend was ahead of us....With an hour to go, one year, I was in third but couldn't figure out who was in 1st and second...so I kept going wider. Finally, Molly Ballou yells at my wife, "To her "ASS" off her seat and go down to the water so your God D&*& husband won't run up on the beach and kill us all... I finished 2nd that year.. 9 Hours...

[BK]

When I told Massi that I had a dog named "Cesare", he told me that they had a dog named "Jimbo". :)

[scotti 66]

Hi friends,
now it's my turn.
We got different employees. You must think when Scotti Factory closed in 1975, Renato offered a job to our workers, but they said : "Not at all".
Cesare broke with Angelo and Renato at the end of 1970.
Scotti Craft were the sames for every driver of
OMC Team, aside when Cesare tried a new special boat in the race, especially
in Milan, first event of European Tour, and Paris.
My uncle Angelo built different boats from 1970 for Renato and the others
drivers, especially for OMC Team, aside the top drivers of Mercury Team.
Cesare learned from Angelo the job and then he collaborated with him from 1949, but
when Renato began to win, a great problem burst: two young cocks in the
hen-house.
From 1968 my dad run for Evinrude Italy, from 1969 he got a contract, like a
driver, for OMC and from 1971 like a builder as well.
And after Cesare, Mr.Bill and Cees thinked to get their own factories from
the middle of seventies.
Cesare learned the art of wood, working child.
He burnt in Nesso, a little village lying up one of the mountains,
surrounding vertically the Lake Como.
The first Scotti Craft (SCUDERIA: this is right Italian word) was
built and painted by Cesare himself, all alone on January/February 71 and on
April first race and first victory in Milan battling against Fred Miles,
Jackie Wilson, Velden, Bob Spalding, Renato,Tom Percival, Dieter Schulze, Giorgio Molinari (the brother of Renato was a good driver of OI class, especially)...
The boat was not too perfect, but many people said "Cesare can drive an
ironing board powered an Evinrude as well".
After Auronzo 71 (the OK Corral between the cousins) Cesare said "I have been very stupid: just as I expected ".
The brothers Abbate were big into offshore racing and were in attendance
with my mother at Auronzo 71. Tullio, a few seconds before the accident in the fourth heat, said " Now Renato cuts Cesare". But the races...
I had talked with my mother about that race of ON World Championship: Renato gave the
hand to Cesare at the end and my mother said to Renato "Do you would have
liked to kill him?".
About the start of Scotti Factory....
In Havasu 1970 it was Jack Leek to say to Cesare:" Please, watch the
Molinari boats for OMC Team. They are really different of those of Mercury
Team. You must build the hulls for us or we will look for another factory"
And then....

Yes Val, my dog is called Jimbo: I remember the amusement of him, when he came to Faggeto testing the new Scotti hulls.

Have fun,
Massimo

Two pics from the past... double awards for Cesare at Auronzo 70: after four
heats Cesare was second in ON European Championship (one victory and three
second places) behind Renato and ahead Bob Spalding, scoring the best laps.
In 1970 ON World Championship two heats won for Cesare and two for Renato
but victory for Mercury Team and different boats in Campione event on September 70: very light that
of Renato (I get the pic). After that race Cesare thinked " The time
has come when I must build my hulls ". The boat of Cesare was the same of 1969, doubly winning on December in South Africa and then in Milan-Six Hour, April 70.

[Ron Hill]

The Scotti I ran at the 1971 Havasu Classic, was the 16' Scotti that Cesar had driven at the Miami 225 in July.

We were told at the time this was the "FIRST" Scotti Craft. It was fast as hell. I was leading single engine, as I recall, and was "Blowing by" Mike Wallace for the ssecond time in an hour....when I kissed off the patrol boat wave from Dick Summerfelts twin blow over....I was looking over my shoulder and really never saw the wave, but when I was about 20 feet in the air, I knew I was in trouble.

Tore hell out of the boat and me. They later fixed the boat, Bob Nagoatie that is, but I never looked back to see the expression on lapped traffic again... Wallace, went on to finish second in single..."**** Happens". After that most Scotti Crafts were longer...

I had 500 of these pictures made and gave them out autographed by me. Diane Bowden tells me Todd still has one. Todd says, "He doesn't." I those days, as now, I thought kids was our future...

[scotti 66]

Very cool story Ron and what a great driver !
We are waiting for you over here.
Yesterday I have launched with my mother (she feels not too well alas!: she is very glad to meet you and me... let's not talk about it!
Thanks for your kindness.
My best greetings,
Massimo

Who won in 1971 the Miami 225? What behaved Cesare in that race?

Cesare wins Milan-Six Hour 71: 1° assoluto = 1 st overall
The # 47 was the Cesare's number, winning in Como, Berlin and Havasu 68 (S class and second against multi-engine competition)

[scotti 66]

Before the race, I test the boat in front of Scotti house.
I was only 5 years old.
Ciao (a typical and confidential italian greeting),
Massimo

[scotti 66]

Cesare takes the inside for passing a Mercury F2 in front of the Idroscalo grandstands.
I enjoy the races,
Massimo

[scotti 66]

I have turned the pics: that featured the end of the long race.
Now the announced shot.
Sorry,
Massimo

[Ron Hill]

Massi:

Several things: One, my wife just got out of surgery. She had a knee operation this morning. The doctors seems to think she shouldn't being considering travel where she might do a lot of walking. AND as soon as she's ok, he'd like to do her other knee.

So, Italy, is more than likely off the calendar for this year. The doctors had had a wait and see attitude, but last week they felt, maybe like George Bush, that time was running out.

Miami 1971:

I don't recall who one. I do recall that Jimbo had anew Jack Leek desgined, Wilbur McDonald built hull that led a lot of the race. It featured a 14" set back and a 4" deep tunnel. I ran a Sea Jay, that was fairly fast but kept having aheating problem. Finally, broke a crank..

I rode back from Miami to OMC on one of the OMC trucks. Ted May took my car back to California to get my kneeldown boats to bring to DePue.....I think, anyway, on the way up to OMC, I was riding with Rich McKinley one of OMC's top mechanics and I asked where the water was coming out of the blocks on the V-4 when they added the tuned pipes out the back. He said, that the water was coming out of the bottom of the block. I said, that is why my motor and all the OMC's at Miami overheated and broke cranks...or at least why most.


I told Rich, that my dad had once but a KR-A (Prop A) with a Quicksilver foot and he's taken the water pump out and becaasue the water outlet was on the bottom of the block we stcuk the motor the first time. My dad, then mounted a copper water outlet above the cyclinder, thus keeping the block full of water all the time.

When we got to Waukegan, Il, I made Rich take me to Jack Leek's house, it was after closing at the shop, to told Jack I'd figured out the problem...It was Wednesday after Miami, they'd really only had one day to start working on the problem. I a rare case, Jack listened to me. By thetime I got to the plant Thursday morning, they had pinched the water outlets out and were venting the blocks off the top. The Super Strangler and Stinger GT were in the pipeline, but a quick design change to the built in tuner, had the water outlet on the top of the block.

It seems, in testing, that Mouse had to pinch the outlets down to an 1/8 on both banks before the block would fill.

I do remember that Renato had some COOL RECORD PROPS, two blade cleavers, that I would had died to get my hands on... even though, I ran the Club foot, becaasue my motor over heated with 1:1... the faster OMC's were getting enough water to farce feed the block... The slower OMC's broke first...which was ususally the opposite of what usually happened ...Usually, the fast stuff broke frist...slow guys like me, would finish usually...

Probably, just go to Needles for Easter like usual... Drink some beer, watch the wind blow, go up to the casinos in Laughlin.....

[Ron Hill]

December 1969, Boat News

[Ron Hill]

1969 Havasu:

Ron Hill in the Snapper... Cesare Scotti in the hat and Renato next to Scotti...can't remember the rest.

65 gallon tank... Hallett four point, built by Rich Hallett.

[David_L6]

Ron,

Do you have any more pics of that hydro you can post?


David

[Ron Hill]

I've got more, much more, but where?? Here is a shot at Havasu 1969, seldom were your by yourself. ABC's Wide World of Sports filmed part of this race, I actually had a camera on a pickle fork, until it feel off and went to the bottom of old Lake Havasu... They did use some over the should shots of me for ABC.... they would have usde more had I not ended up about 19th...

I'd runlike hell for an hour and break a proshaft off. They'd Team OMC) would put a new gearcase on and I'd run like hell for an hour and break anothe propshaft off...but the end of eight hours, OMC had me running some real junk props, having wasted about 8 gearcases and 8 props...

I'd finished third overall with this boat at the Elsinore 500... I was so slow there, that my dad couldn't get anyone to co drive. He got Jimmy Hauenstein ready, but when I came in for gas, Jimmy hid out. At the next stop, my dad had Ted May lined up, but boat he was driving sank on the otherside of Elsinore, finally, he got Dewey Berghauer to take for an hour and half... See we ran 500 miles and if someone broke, like the leader, hell the race would have to go sometime 20 more laps...Pruitt finally, won, but it was damn near dark...my ass was so sore... I'd burned a piston on one engine and was honestly running maybe 55 MPH for like 6 hours....All the inboards fell out... It was to be a 2 1/2 mile course but was closer to 5 miles....I got 3rd becasue I was still running, about 110 boats started...

At Pareker, the next Spring, I drove that four point for 7 hours and 20 minutes and lost the race, to Jerry Wallin and Allan Stenson by ONE FOOT... Dewey Berghauer drove and hour and 40 minutes...

[Ron Hill]

Scotti on the cover of the Propeller, November 1970

[Ron Hill]

Inside the front cover.....

[Ron Hill]

An article on the Havasu Race...

[Ron Hill]

David L.:

Another picture of the Hallett Four Point...to my left is either Fred Hauenstein, or Ted May. They both ran OMC twin Four Points built by Wilbur McDonald...

[David_L6]

Thanks for the pics Ron. That's a good lookin' boat.

Did you fly the sponsons on those and ride on the tail end just like the smaller stock outboard hydros? It looks like that's what you're doing in one of the pics above.

[Ron Hill]

RICH hALLETT BUILT THE BOAT TO RUN ON THE SPONSONS. He didn't like the ide of "Blowing Over". The problem, two heavy Evinrudes would lift and the boat ran hard on the sponsons. My dad and I added air trans, like a Stock Hydro after Elsinore and we picked up a ton of speed. For Parker the next spring we closed in much of the pickle forked area and lightened the nose and moved the engines back a little...I was able to run 98 full load of fuel...

Had I know run over a bouy on the first lap and lost about ten minutes getting the damn inner tube off one motor, I would have been up front most of the day. AS it turned out, it wasn't until the last lasat that I went from third, to second and lost by a foot.

Bobby Witt from Baytown, Texas had been leading the last 6 hours. He came around the last time at 8 hours and fifty fve minutes, too long to wait the last lap out, but he had a huge lead, Alan Stinson and I we racing for second and third. We were literally bumping the weeds over along the shore to try to pass each other as we came into the final straightaway, we see Bobby Witt going along and we pass him on both side going into the final turn, nine hours has passed and only three boats are running. Alan Stinson goes into the corner full on, slides clear to the beach and spins out, I try to dive in on him and "Hook it" which throws me out of the seat and kills both motors. Bobby Witt sees all this action and makes a hard right to avoid all the trouble and flys out of his boat... Now, the top thre boats are all dead in the water. I fire my engines and head for the line thinking I'm going to win, when Stinson gets back going and on plane and take one jump ahead of me and wins by a foot. Witts get back in and finished third...20,000 people go crazy!!!

Yes, it drove just like a D Stock Hydro..

[Powercat]

Originally posted by Ron Hill
RICH hALLETT BUILT THE BOAT TO RUN ON THE SPONSONS. He didn't like the ide of "Blowing Over". The problem, two heavy Evinrudes would lift and the boat ran hard on the sponsons. My dad and I added air trans, like a Stock Hydro after Elsinore and we picked up a ton of speed. For Parker the next spring we closed in much of the pickle forked area and lighteden the nose and moved the engines back a little...I was able to run 98 full load of fuel...

Ron:
This is the PowerCat 4 point hydro. Same idea,
"Keep it on the water" was why my Dad started with
the hydro designs....
Danny Leger

[scotti 66]

Hi Ron,
I'm so sorry to hear your wife is still in ill health. I will say a prayer for her. I hope to meet you and your family as soon as possible.
Thanks for your cool messages and your pics: I'm really enjoying them.
I'll post a few surprises, for time being Havasu 68: Cesare passing a multi-engine.
Yours sincerely,
Massimo

[Scot Keller]

Ron,

I really enjoyed your Dick Sherrer commentary. In addition to his many racing accomplishments, Dick was always going out of his way to encourage and support younger people in the sport. I acquired his Parker winning rig with an Ed Lane motor. His advise and friendly support was very helpful.

…and he was unquestionably fast!

Scot

[Fish]

Ron,
I have been reading this thread for about two hours now and I am amazed at the information, pictures, and history you provided. By any chance, do you remeber a guy named Jack Staples? He drove a white and blue Molonari with C-6, Twister, and then Twister II in the late 60's and early 70's. He won the Nat'l championship in either 71' or 72' U Class.

[Fish]

OleGator,
yes, he is still in the suncoast area, and still dabbling with boats in his spare time. The diving project went well and as far as I know is still going, although he is no longer involved. How did you know him?

[BK]

My friend Beaver Tyler asked me to scan and post this PowerBoat Mag Article on the Gold Coast Marathon for him.

I have a new scanner and it just isn't working as good as my old one was, and I've been playing with it all night and this is as good as it gets... here goes......

[Ron Hill]

Now, I remember who won that race...

Jack Staples, the name in in my brain...Did he ever run a Dutchman Tunnel??? Only the name cames back...

[Ron Hill]

Add Parker 1970:

Here is a picture from the cover of the Propeller magazine, May 1970... you can see how close Stinson/Jerry Wallin (Black and white boat) were to Bobby Witt (Molinari/Johnsons) on lap one....

[Fish]

Ron,
glad I could help jar your memory about the race. I don't think he had a Dutchman tunnel, but I am not positive. He raced SK for a while and then bought a Molonari which he used in U class for several years. THe boat was all white with a Light blue stripe from bow to stern on each side above the sponson, and a light blue stripe on the cowl from bow to stern. His number was 304. I will get some pics from my mom and post them when I get the chance.

Attached is a water color that came with a record he set for the 3hour marathon:

[scotti 66]

Great pic and great emotion, Val.
I get an article about that race with a beautiful title:"Speed don't scares tiny Scotti". It features a cool image of Cesare looking at the pit crew all around the propeller.
I'll look for...
For time being....have fun,
Massimo

[Ron Hill]

Is that Slick Johnson behind Ralph Evinrude? Do you realize that Slick Johnson invented the Jaws of Life....? For NASCAR...I heard this anyway, that he used a Mercury Power Trim system on the first jaws. He used to put on all the SHRIMP BOILS at these races...either OMC or Mercury paid him... I heard he was killed in an Arca or Busch race.....I may have this all screwed up, but I thought I heard all this on RPM Tonight...

I do know that I knew Slick Johnson, and that looks like what it said on the jacket...

I've got a couple of those UIM paintings... You only got those for breaking a UIM World Record...hand painted, Jack Staples...seems he ran an aluminum Petty twin at Parker once...not a Dutchman...one of those names that sticks with you though..

[Ron Hill]

I said I had two...

[Fish]

Ron,
he might have run one of those I just don't recall. They only ones I really remeber were the Black SK, the Molonari, and a boat that I am sure no one here has heard of called Huber-Cotti, which at the time, was the fastest thing on the water. It also caused my Dad's premature retirement from racing.:( :(

Cool records. Guess I brought a knife to a gun fight.:)