Ever wonder what?

[175checkmate]

Is holding the motor on the boat?
Well got the motor off. Hyd jackplat was a pain in the Butt.

There where no less than 11 holes in the transom not counting the drain plug.

Cut the top sill off so I could get a look inside. :( Yuck what a mess.

Wet wood as far as the eye can see.

After pondering the back of the boat and all the holes in the transom I figured cutting off the back skin was not going to hurt anything.

With the back cut off, I was able to dig out some of the wet stuff (glad this boat does'nt have a core) The wood is wet on both sides.

Looks like I may have to cut the inner skin off and while I'm at it redo the splash well.
Starting fresh and build in some strength.

[bulldogdaddy]

that looks like a little work,lol,i'll post some of my project when it gets here,you think you have troubles!

[175checkmate]

Still have to rip up the old floor, or whats left of it.
Having to rip out the inner skin will probably be for the better. Then I can tie the knees,stringers and transom together better.
Might just as well do it right once, than have to go back in and redo it.

[vector tim]

hey cheif you getcha some of that there experience on that itchy sh#t so you can come down and help get itchy too, racemore says give him a call and he will help too when I attack mine, let me know on the seacast, cause we could do my glastron carlson

[175checkmate]

Itchy stuff. Oh yea got reaquanted with the stuff today, Going to be digging into the floor tomarrow. Got wood and fiberglass all over the backyard. Wife looking at me like I have losted it.
Exsploritory surgury. What a hobbie we have.
Greatest invention: POWER TOOLS:D

[Alan Power]

I hate it when that happens, hehe.
Well if its any consolation I've just done the same job on my boat. I split the top and hull molding to do it, makes life easier but don't know how feasible it is in your case.
You could also build in setback while you're at it!
How far has the dampness set into your transom, how much are you going to remove, just the area that you have exposed or are you going further? If the area beyond where you have cut is OK you might get away with just replacing the center section and tying it into the stringers with knees.
Well post those pics and we'll se what we can come up with.
Just remember, this is half the fun!!!:D

Alan...

[Barefoot Bob]

It looks like my transom did. The Baja has a solid transom all the way across. I am sure the Checkmate is the same way. Accually The boat was split for easyier access. Cut the back skin completely off and relaced the whole thing from end to end. It was real solid down close to the core. All of my damage came from water over the transom when waterskiing. The boat always sits in a garage otherwise.

[175checkmate]

Will be open to idea's
Keep the splash well? Cut the splash well off?
Cutting it off will make it easer to get under it.
Looking to cut the inner skin out. Then build a tansom from the inside and bond it to the outter skin.
The hull has no core to deal with, Good thing, So right know I'm looking at a transom and floor. I can do this ( I think)
Looking for idea's

Bob, how did you glass on a new outter skin on the transom?

[Techno]

I would do like Barefoot Bob said, take the whole skin off the back. But keep it and bondit back on when everything is done. It's already a chunk of glass and smooth on the outside. The piece cut out can be edge beveled and bonded back on.

The inside can be laminated directly to the new transom outside of the boat. Then tabbed in every where needed to tie it in. This is alot easier flat than in the back of the boat.

Reduce or eliminate the splash well. Unless you need it. I don't see why though. The knees will be bigger and easier to put in too. If you do eliminate the splashwell you'll have a nice hole to work through too. This seems like a small thing untill you start clambering in and out of the boat to do something simple.

On my last boat I noticed that once the wood got wet it swelled and ruptured the transom/rubrail seal. This is where it was leaking since the rub rail was used as a seal. It should have been sealed without it. This was the very top of the transom where it turned into the splash well. I guess it's a water supply well.

[175checkmate]

Thanks techno.
I will have a ton of questions on this I'm sure.
I think the splash well will be cut out to make it easer to get to the inside. With both the back and inner skins removed what is holding the transom (wood) plug. How are the sides tied in?
It would seem to me that the outter skin would be for looks.
This is going to make my head hurt:eek:

[Barefoot Bob]

Well my splash well is still there. techno is exactly right about it being nothing more than a water supply well. I really had no choice though. It works with my access cover for batteries, oil tank and so on. So I left it alone and it was really sealed up good when it was put back together. I just have polaroids of the project, but I will try to scan and post them tomorrow.

[175checkmate]

Not really needed. I can run the hyd lines and electric/steering and throttle cable a different way.
Triming the engine may be a different story. Alan sugjested adding setback. If this was done then I would not need the splash well.
May not be going back witht he hyd jackplate. 6 mounting bolts to the engine, 6 mounting bolts to the transom, 6 ways for water to get in.

[Barefoot Bob]

I just have 4 holes through my transom. I already had a land&Sea jack plate but needed more setback. So I purchased a Land&Sea step n jack and installed that to the transom. And the jack plate to that. A total 9 inches beind the boat.

[Flat Out]

Having been through this before and taking John's (Spaeth) at Hydro Stream in Canada advice. I would lift the deck from the hull unless you can get a new motor well, I suppose its possible to cut out the motor well then reglass it in afterwards but in the end you would a neater job if you lifted the deck. DO NOT cut the skin off the transom.Its the only part left of hull shell.I saw a boat someone did like that and the back just about ripped off.
These are only my thoughts based on my experience and advice from someone I know and trust. Others may and will have different ideas that may work as well.
My transom was redone by John 6 years ago and has over 360 hrs. of running time on it with a 200 Looper (450 lbs.) and a CMC Stainless jack (75+ lbs) without any problems. The boat has run through some pretty rough water (lots of air time) and its as good as the day it was done.

[action17]

GOOD LUCK with your project it is no fun!! while instigator was at my house this weekend of course we talked about boats and different projects we started watching the video of me building my boat rite out of the mold and i told that i commend anyone who takes on a project like yourself, h20 nut ,scott,and now you gus!! its alot of hard,messy,itchy work trust me i've been building boats since i was 13 years old!! there awesome and alot of fun!! but suck to build!! :cool:

[Racemore]

I wouldn't have cut the skin but it's history now.If at all possible when you build the transom back I would try to laminate glass to the inside from corner to corner.I would use formica and plywood and screw it to the back of the boat so i could repair cut out area and minimze the finish work. Surface prep is crucial too,that skin was alot of the support, you can separate the cap and lift it up at the stern to have easy access if you don't want to mess up the metalflake by cutting the deck.:cool:

[sho305]

Let me find the pics of my Bayliner and scan them on here. If I had to do it again, I would investigate separating the back/all of the deck(not easy on Bayliner). If not, then cutting the splashwell out for access on the inside(Would do this on Bayliner). Only if the seams where shorter to have to fix at end of project than on the outside transom skin. They take time per inch! On the inside you have no pretty finish to worry about. Note most boats have the wood all the way across, not this deal. This transom is flat in center and angles in on sides. It was likely a bit easier I guess.

Here:
http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=152381#post152381

[Barefoot Bob]

This is how it was done on my Baja

[Barefoot Bob]

And this is my setback

[175checkmate]

Been digging today. Pulled the seats and carpet out.
Here is what it looked like before.

[175checkmate]

I knew about the rotten wood.

[175checkmate]

That foam is a pain.

[sho305]

I think I have the same thing in my Checkmate transom. It has a big plate in it now, so I can run it but I know water was/is in there. I'll split the whole thing if I do it.

Holy crap! Doen't it look just wicked when you first dig into it?? I wonder if mine has foam in the bottom like that. I only have a soft spot by the rear seat. It seems good by front seats and forward. Great pics! My inside looks about the same floor-wise. Your dash is slightly different. I dont have indent for side/arm pads where they start, and gauges are in dash/more room there. Hard to see down there though. Like the hotfoot! Keep going!:D :D :D :eek: :cool:

[175checkmate]

There is only one stinger and thats in the center. It does'nt go all the way to the transom.

[175checkmate]

Hands are sore from digging. The good thing is the floor is only about 3" wider than what I have dug out on the right side.

My plan is do get all the old,wet,rotten,stinky wood,foam, dead glass and bugs out. Then see what its going to take to put it back together.

The best thing I saw under al this mess is how good the fiberglass in the hull looks.

[175checkmate]

The part I cut out of the middle of the transom was shot. There where 11 holes and the glass was falling off. It would have taken just about the same amout of glass to fix it as it would to replace it. The glass that is left looks solid.

[sho305]

Yours is different on the back, I have no knees. My floor has a hole in the back center, just big enough for a pump. It has this big 2x4 sized beam going across from side to side close to the lower motor bolts.

One stringer! tell me that is not a tuff skin on that hull....and heavy, but you save all that wasted stringer weight! It is interesting to see all the different configurations in these boats, and they all work. Even rotted in some cases!

[Barefoot Bob]

That looks like a job,but I bet it will be sweet when done. I re-carpeted my Baja about 5 years ago. I had the seats all redone about 4 years ago. When I pulled the old carpet up I was afraid I would see all that rotten wood also. But all of the wood in my floor is glassed in. All I had to do is remove the carpet, do a little scrapeing to get glue of off the fiberglass and re-carpet. Did yours have any fiberglass over the wood???

[Alan Power]

I would agree with hat has been said, I think you should lift the deck molding off. It will give you more room to work and you will be able to get the new transom core in easier.
I have done all this already on my boat and had to split the moldings to get at the transom because the core ran high behind it.
I don't think you should cut any more from the outer skin on the back, it will be difficult to put back neatly. Try and patch up the old piece and re-glass it to the boat or take a mold from it, put the mold up against the hole and glass in new section.
If you are trying to strengthen up back there, I would suggest running that stringer all the way back. I did a similar job on mine but I ran it back flat (horizontal plywood plate), and sat it into the recess for the lower spray rail on either side, with a lower stringer extension under it. If you cut out a hole in the floor afterwards this makes a great battery / fuel tank storage area, nice and solid.
I have also fitted two more knees on each side of this plate, these you could run through the transom and build into your setback. Don't have to, just food for thought! I was considering this.

I hope what I have said is clear, I'm not the best at explaining things, according to my girlfriend anyway!

Well here's a pic of what I'm on about.:D :D

[Alan Power]

I hope this can help, I'll try and do a drawing of the built in setback idea, its similar to the setback reese has instaled I think. I'll post it up here if I can.

Hope this helps,
Alan:cool:

[175checkmate]

My transom has the same 2x4 running across and no knees.
Yes at one time the floor was glassed in from the factory.
I have the same hole for the pump in the bottom.
Gauges where not factory, no other place to put them.

Alan. Clear on what ya said, thanks. Would like to see how you did the built in set back. Hopefully reese will see this and chime in.


Now the $64000 question.

How the heck do I get the deck off? Let alone put it back on.

I will have to crawl under there and see whats holding it on there.
I agree it would be easyer to work on the back instead of laying on my side with my head in the hole geting up close and personal with the fiberglass.

[Alan Power]

Being unfamiliar with your type of boat, but most boats of this type are joined under the rub rail. Have a look under the cockpit combing at the side deck if there are screws poking through the laminate these probably hold the two moldings together. There may also be a GRP tape over these to add extra strength so look carefully for the screws.
If this is the case remove the rub rail terminating fittings at the end of the rub rail each side of the engine well. Pull the rubber out and remove screws. Your deck should now lift clear, be careful of any cables or hoses between the two moldings.

[sho305]

Mine has a rubber/plastic insert in the belt moulding that must hold screws or rivets. Have to detach the dash supports, wiring, and so on, then rope and pulleys or a case of beer and some friends...

My floor is glassed too, seems to be rotting from the bottom up unless it cracked before it rotted.

Why did they leave the last bit of stringer out? The floor is there anyway...???

I would be real interested in seeing how to attach a setback on there. With the large (20") amount I have been recommended, it could be a good idea.

[Alan Power]

build in the setback on my boat but I was considering it. I dont think I will need that much setback on it, its not heavy and its very short. Also this is my first boat to rig for all out speed and want to play around a bit with setups to get a feel for how it all works. If I doo need setback I'll go with bolt-on's.

Anyway, hows work getting on, did you get all the mash out yet? I am trying to do a drawing for you on the built in setback. Have a look at what Reese has done on the transom of his boat, look at the thread, (using aluminum instead of wood) in the fiberglass section. He's done a nice job on that setback.
You figure out how to get the deck off yet?

Sho
20" built in setback, that would have to be well braced I think, maybe an integrated platform or a knee would do it, could be heavy though! Would probably be lighter to fabricate a tube steel bracket.

[sho305]

I was talking with another guy on another thread, and he thinks 6" would work for a lighter 200 Merc. Said he has a similiar hull, and took off a heavy Johnny, and that helped. Said I can put a 2" spacer in later if needed. He said he can raise the jack, and trim the nose down some now, and it runs faster and handles better than ever. One handed he said at 72mph, has run 76 or something.

I was thinking of getting two 4x4x1/2" alum tubes, and bolting them on there, then welding an angle to hook over the transom. Not sure what direction is best, but then I could mount a jack to those, and never have to move them. Seal them on there good.

[Barefoot Bob]

If you look at the begining of page 2 on this post you will see a pic of my setback.

Here is 72 trimmed out to high and really a handfull to drive.

[Barefoot Bob]

and here is 75 bringing the jack plate up and leaving the boat run flat. Notice how it is starting to lift the stern and the stringers are starting to show in back?? It was still picking up speed. I am going to try to post a video in a few days...Its cold out there

[sho305]

Barefoot Bob--great pics there! Looking very nice. I see what you mean. I run mine like the first pic when there are a couple of other little boats out. It will jump right out of the water on a wake and is fun at 52-54 or so. A bigger wake gets the drive out too, so I slow down or trim down. I think you are getting into a good setup there, it looks real smooth. No doubt it is smoother riding that way as well. I think with more power I'll get there. You can see how much less water is coming off the hull in the second pic, less spray=more go.

Your gonna have to get a lower windshield now!!! :D

I see the nice setup, you have a bracket behind there, is that the spacer? Your jack is pretty thin, and nice and compact.

[Barefoot Bob]

Land & Sea's jacks are real thin (only about 4.5") I ran it that way first and needed to go back farther. So I called Land & Sea about there Step N Jack. It has 5" of set back and about 4"higher mounting for the motor. But it is a fixed plate and will not move. So, with my jack plate bolted to that, I have alot of upwards travel.

[sho305]

Ah hah! Now I see what you have. That is a nice setup. I'll have to keep that in mind. Was over at Scaryfast.com, wow! Pretty wicked stuff.

I just hate to give up my BR, it is so nice in a little 17' boat to have some room. I'm 6'+ , I gotta have some room. I even fish too, and it is nice to tie to docks and get in/out in the bow, let kids ride there, I even putt around at night(no wake) and sit in front of the windshield so I can steer and look around. Few performance boats have one.

[Barefoot Bob]

My friends Hydrostream really has a nice open front and has seen speeds as high as 90. But its just not a fishing rig if you know what I meen. I really like mine, I guess I will just have to sacrifice a little speed. I do really need to chop my windshield or something. I might have to check with one of the chop shops here in town and see what we can do. I have had it off once when I had my 175 on it and it really lightened the boat up at high speeds. I am going to see what it will run in spring with it off. Hope to hit 80

[175checkmate]

Bob, boat flying good.

Alan, Still elbow deep in mush. Will start again on thurs day. Doing the work thing right now and have no time. Should have all the interior,carpet, and mush out on thrusday. Going to leave the one stringer in and take pictures. Will post them and go fro there. If I have time I will see how the top comes off.

[sho305]

Bob-

I just like to be able to walk around the boat and drop my pole anywhere, so I like access to the bow. I only fish our lake, and normally have the wife with me. There is little room for two in a closed 17' walking around. I might get a smaller boat with raised seats just for fishing, not got that far yet. Too many boats now:)

Like the 'Stream BRs lots, but have to buy a house and not wanting to invest that much now. Never seen a trashed one cheap either...I found a fair runnable Checkmate with a 200 johnny for $2k here. Not sure I wanted it though so I passed. About a '84 maybe.

175Checkmate- ya, get the pics on here so I can see all the gremlins I'll find when I rip mine open!


I would suggest a Bayliner front glass as they are raked way back, if you like the looks. You need to mount it forward though, so you can fit behind it. It is like over 2' long and maybe 1' high at back. Very sleek. Sides are long too. Found a pic of one: (one next to it is not bad either)

[175checkmate]

Will do just that. Once I get all the floor,foam and dead critters that have found there way into the boat since 1975. I will start in the transom, get the rot out of there, take a bunch of pictures and figure out what to do then.

[sho305]

Dead critters? Bought a boat once that had 6" of leaves so old in there it turned to dirt. There was little trees and weeds growing in there! Hull was good somehow. It just is not that hard to put a board or something in there and a tarp over it...duh! Here you have to tent it way up or the snow pushes the tarp in instead of sliding off. Just getting antsy here and wanted to make sure you where still on it.:confused: Want to rip into mine but have other stuff going and cant.

[175checkmate]

I work 4 13hr days and have 4 days off. So when I'm working thats all I have time for.
But the 4 days off is nice.
Will be digging in again in the morning.

[sho305]

I would love hours like that. My cousin was a firefighter and had a deal like that. Have to get that furnace hooked up in the garage here now so I can work on this truck....

[175checkmate]

Just kidding, found everything but.
Well today removed the rest of the foam (yuck) from the main cabin. Removed the seat mounts and the rest of the floor. Found one piece of good wood, it was hidding in the seat mount. Cut most of the floor out of the bow. Still have to grind down the floor edge and remove whats left of the stringer in the center. Its getting there:p

[Barefoot Bob]

I would have to split my boat to do that. Its all comparments and a flat platform front and back. Looks like your getting there.

I just received the prop from Florida and just got back from the lake. Its not as fast as my dads even though its the same prop. Cup has been added to it and you would think it would bring the RPM down. But it accually ran higher RPM and slower speed. It ran 6700 at 72 MPH.

Do you post a video the same way you send a pic? I did shoot one tonight but the boat looks slow:(

[sho305]

Wow, you cleaned house! Looking very good. Did you have symptoms of all that rotten stuff? Like hearing funny noises on waves or anything, flexing of the hull, etc? I know the skin on my Checkmate is tuff. I can smack the side and it is hard. No core in there just glass and lots of it. Seems solid when I run it. All that rot and you were going how fast in it? Hehehe...:cool:

I need a bigger barn out back:eek:

Bob-how sharp is that prop?

[175checkmate]

You post video the sameway bob. Post it, love to see it.
SHO, was asking my self the same question. I was going how fast.
Only had the hull flex once and that was at east lake. It was a little choppy comming across. Knew the transom and most of the floor was soft. But as I new I was going to tear it apart this winter I just kept a close watch on all the mounting hardware for the motor. Its amazing what a 1250gph bildge pump will keep up with:D

As far as splittling the hull. I am going to do it, but as I have now real good place to put it. I am trying to get all the rot out forward and then when I do slip it, I will just slide it forward to give me room to work on the transom.

[Barefoot Bob]

The prop has been nicked in the sand and was worked. I can see for sure that there has been cup added. But I bet there is more to it than that. I am running higher RPM with it than my dads 25. Looks like we are going to have another 60 degree day so I am trying my dads again to see the difference.

As far as the video goes, dont you need something like winzip first so you can compress the file. I tried to send one to a friend and it didnt work cause the server said it was to big.

[175checkmate]

I just attached it, same as a picture. It was in windows real player format.

[Barefoot Bob]

Well I can watch it through windows media play. And then try to send it right from my CD disc that its burned on it doesnt send. Do you know of a free download to compress files?

[Rickracer]

They have free evaluation versions all over. :cool:

[Barefoot Bob]

Well I have one downloaded. Now I just have to wait till my son gets home from School to figure it out. I can rebuild a meen automatic transmission but when it comes to computers, im not that bright:rolleyes:

[Reese]

This picture was taken about a year ago and is called “when stupid project go wrong”. This sad picture was the result of a totally shot transom and partially rotted floor.

The floor was really interesting; they actually joined two pieces of ¾ ply with about 100 staples…wonder why it leaked.:confused:

[175checkmate]

Well I went and removed the rub rail and the 10,000 rivets holding dam thing together. Since I have no place to put the top deck. I figured why not just slide the hole mess forward so I can get to the transom. Well it worked, did not brake anything, crack anything. Did pinch my fingers a few times.

[Reese]

My boat originally had an open splash well and the engine directly mounted to it. Have to admit that it’s very tempting to close it off and add a sundeck lid!!!

There are two problems with closing off the backend. First is that you’ll need to incorporate some amount of backset to allow the engine to tilt up without hitting the deck. That amount will vary with each boat but expect to use at least 8-10”.

Second, that much backset may be too much for a 16’ boat and you’ll definitely need to incorporate some kind of knee brace to support the whole thing.

If you decide to go ahead and incorporate that much backset and later find out it’s too much, you could always counter balance it by adding weight to the front end…water skiers do it all the time…right barefoot.:D

[175checkmate]

Any idea's on how to get the rotted wood out of the transom and still save whats left of the outter skin?

[175checkmate]

2

[175checkmate]

What are all the holes in the floor?
I thought about closing in the splash well, but like you said I would need all kinds of setback so I would be able to trim the motor.
I really don't think the c-mate would like that much set back.
So I have seperated the top from the bottom and now I will beable to keep the splash well.

[sho305]

With the Bayliner, the inside glass was not very thick except the edges. So I cut/broke out the center until I hit the stiff edge of glass around the sides of the wood. The outer skin was very thick, maybe 1/4 to 3/8". Inside < 1/8". Then you have to cut/chisel/whatever you can dream up to get the wood out. I cleaned the lip/slot at the edge out with chisel and grinder so the new wood fit in there nice. That way I knew it was the same as original. I went right over the top of the original edges. Check my Bayliner post of the inside pic of the matted wood. Edges are kind of jagged, but you can't see through paint! Had to pour resin in to get bubbles out, so keep them smaller.

Your skin will be flapping then, so you need to brace it with something or it will not fit the deck anymore. Maybe good to do that now, depending on how strong it is? Have to keep the transom straight. Seems like the new wood would make it straight though. It will be a pain to clean out in there, but believe me when I say it sucks to be finishing seams on the outside(lots of time). Also need to brace/mold the outside of yours so you can lay the new piece of tansom skin in there.

IMHO,
I am thinking you could prepare transom skin(grind a taper to layer mat into old), set up a mold for outside, then mat it in from the inside to make the new skin part up.

Then smooth the inside and put the new wood in, mat the inside of wood and the knees. Make sure you paint the wood up with resin good before install. Good to do each piece separate if plys, so water does not travel through all of them if it gets in.

Then pour the resin between the outer skin and wood, and down edges with resin(flood it) while you clamp/screw the skin to the wood (while wet so be ready)and fill it right up w/resin. Have to fill any big holes in there before this, and some do not do this(flood it). I worked well on mine but it was a tight fit, so??? I wanted it all glued together good! Anyone toss in here.

Had a guy tell me 10-20" for my 17'. 20" is huge setback. Said heavy bow needs it.??? Now I hear 6", maybe 8". Maybe he was hosing me.

[175checkmate]

The plug I took out, I may just glass it back on and finish the edge. I guess I am going to have to paint the rear of the boat. Oh well thats the easy part of this project. The top deck of the boat was lighter that I thought it would be. The hole thing maybe weigh's 150lb. The wife and I lifted it and slid it forward.
Built well I can say that.
I will start again on monday, going away for the weekend for some R&R

[Reese]

Well I figured if I never finished this project I could always donate it to an arcade as a marble game.:D

The floor was actually in pretty good shape, it used foam core underneath that was partially saturated with water. I drilled a series of hole to dry out the remainder of the floor as well as the foam itself.

Once the floor was completely dry (three months in California 90 degree sun), I began to repair it, seal it and cover it with a ¼” ply (remember the original floor is ¾”). This actually turned out to be much stronger than I thought with only half the weight.

Sometimes you need to remove the entire floor along with any saturated foam…I didn’t have to in my case.

[Alan Power]

This is how I got the transom core out of my boat, cut the inner skin around the edge with a grinder, peeled it off with long wedges. Did the same with the core. Had to hammer them in good though! I was afraid the outer skin would split, but it didn't and its only about 2mm thick, so you should be OK I reakon.

[sho305]

You can fix the plug I bet. In my Bayliner transom post, look at the pic that is sideways and see the plug on the ground. I ground holes in it, and laid it back up about 6 layers of cloth. The motor had busted through it, had to remove broken stuff. Was easy, just mixed a little cup and goo-ed a couple squares of cloth on every time I walked by! Until it was thick again and I ground it smooth to right thickness. It was bent; and I parked the truck on it for a couple of days to flatten it.

[Barefoot Bob]

OK guys, like I said I purchased my 18'4" Baja brand new. I was 22 at the time and couldnt afford alot so I used my 140 Rude on the boat for starters, it did 52 MPH.
In 86 I purchased a new 2.6 liter 175 Rude. Boat now does 60 MPH with no set back, but would chine walk real bad.
The next year I was told by a guy, that if I added a jack plate,I would be able to lift the motor on the transom and creating less drag in the water. This would help the boat get un-glued from the water resulting in more speed and less chine walk. Just think of it as trying to stick your arm deep into the water at high speeds. The prop is trying to push you forward but the lower unit is pulling you back down.
Well I went out with no money to spend and purchased a manual lift CMC with 6" setback for $200.00 brand new. I also went out and purchased a Land & Sea lower water pick up nose cone. I really dont think I needed that. But the boat now came un glued from the water and I went from 60 to 65 MPH. A few years later I purchased the Land & Sea hydraulic jack plate. It had only a little over 4" setback but I got the same results. It just made it nicer for water skiing when I needed the motor in the down position.
I went from that motor to a 225 Rude(it is for sale now) and to the motor that is on the boat now 225 Pro Max.
The Pro Max Merc is alot lighter than the Rude so now I needed more setback on my 18 1/2 foot boat so I added another 5" bringing me to 9" total.
The next step is to find out, nose cone? or no nose cone. I found a guy with a lower unit to try without a nose cone. He said, he has seen boats gain up to 9 MPH without a cone. I just went out today again with Dads prop and hit 75GPS.

[Racemore]

If ya lose that windsheild you'll gain 5 mph.:D Mercurys are always good for more mph,like taking an anchor off the boat.:cool:

[Barefoot Bob]

Forgot to mention, that was done with the 175, no seats either. I really lightend it up. The speedo that I had at that time only went to 60 but that was pegged and no one to clock me. But but the people that saw me run said it was flying.
Its getting run in spring with the windshield off, we will see what happens:D

[Reese]

Not long ago when companies were making outboard ski boats, I noticed almost all of them were using the 200's instead of the 225's.

I found out they preferred the low end power advantage the 200's offered for deep water starts as well as the speed for barefooters.

I've been thinking about moving up to the 225 but was currious to know if you think the low end torque if sufficient for water sports.

[sho305]

Bob, I looked here, and they say you lose some bow lift with a nose cone. Also say it helps speed after about 60mph. So you might need more setback to lift bow if anything with a cone. Can't believe it would not go faster with one.

[Barefoot Bob]

I am going to find out how my boat & motor combo perorfms without one. I just found a guy that is going to let me try a lower unit without a cone. This guy has some very very fast boats and is very well known. He has seen my boat in person when I had the Rude on it. He accually built me the fastest prop I had on the boat at that time. I told him I have a Merc on the boat now and he figured I would go faster without the cone. So weather permiting, I might take a 100 mile ride next weekend and try the lower unit he has. He custom builds 300 and 400HP merc motors.

[sho305]

I was told with a bow heavy hull, you need the top of the bullet to pull the back down and lift the bow; in order to get the right attitude for max speed and un-wet the bottom. I have not doubt about this. With the cone you lose the lift from the bullet. However, if you make up for that with more setback or other balance issues, the cone has less drag and is faster providing you can get the bow in the right spot with the changes. Maybe that was what they meant when they told me 20" setback on my 930lb 17' vee and no pad BR.

[Barefoot Bob]

I know my boat and motor combo weight is 2000 pounds....MAN, what a hog HUH:(
Anyway, I figure since he said he has seen boats pic up 9 MPH without a nose cone, and he has one to try, what the hell?? I have nothing to loose:)
So if I get a chance this year I will let you know what happend. I do here it both ways, just like you do. But untill I see it for myself, I wont beleive it.

[175checkmate]

Did you figure out how to post the video of that machine flying yet?

[Barefoot Bob]

The one doing a fly by is 14 seconds long. I also have one in the boat while running 75 just to show that it doesnt handle all that bad. That one is 11 seconds long. I did down load winzip like Rickracer said(thanks again Rick) and it seems the video is still to big of file to send. Dont know what to do?? Any suggestions??

[175checkmate]

Can you send it e-mail?

[Barefoot Bob]

I will try if you have an address

[175checkmate]

You have a PM

[sho305]

Yeah, get it on here! Most are .mpg files. Not having a camcorder yet....waiting for the digitals to get cheaper....:)

[175checkmate]

I have to convert the video to a format that S&F will accept.
Trying to find a shareware program that will do it.

[175checkmate]

Portside is dug out. Tried to get a picture of the factory glass, I left about a 2" or so lip at the bottom and on the sides. The glass is in good shape except near the drain plug.

Measuring the distance from the outter skin to the factory lip is 1" and 7/16.
If I keep this it would limit the thickness of the transom to that size.
Or do I grind it off and go back with more wood for a thicker transom?

If so how thick should the transom be?
Need to know how many layers of wood-glass-wood-glass to use and of what size plywood?

[175checkmate]

Pic

[Reese]

Most standard transoms (what ever that is) are about 1.75-2.25" thick. How thick was yours before you took everything out?

[175checkmate]

Old transom was just under 1"1/2 thick.
I'm thinking grind off the old and go back with some thicker stuff.

[Barefoot Bob]

Just checked the left over peace of laminated plywood that was left over from my splash well. It is 1.5 inches. They said that is more than what was in there from new. Thats whats holding the monster on the back of my boat. It doesnt move a bit.

I did see you post, looking for help with the video. And I did see one reply about it should be MPEG and it is already from what I see??
Hopefully you figure it out. Thanks for all your help.

[Alan Power]

you may not be able to get the deck back on, if you have a return down the back of the transom for the splashwell. But what I did here was build up thickness below the splashwell and only out as far as the knees, this is as far as I think you need to spread the load, before the knees & stringers pick it up. Also the edge you have left of the inner skin will make a good former for you to lay up over, nice and round.

I can see your single centre stringer, where it ends, was there anything between it and the transom?

[175checkmate]

Kind of thinking the same thing. I will just notch the new transom where the splash well fits in.
The single stinger did not go all the way to the transom. The only thing I can see that tied the hole thing together was the floor, and that was gone along time ago. Dam strong hull, because there was nothing left to tie everything together and what was left was soggy.

[sho305]

I measured mine and it is 1.5 w/out the skin, seen lots of them two plys of 3/4" each. I think I would go with that and keep it the same-as I think you can get a good tight fit using the stock lip(worked great on Bayliner), and the Alan Power drawing. The knees should add lots of stiffness there, and more if you add more between the knees. I think I will put some kind of plate on the outside of mine too. My plate is really helping with my weak transom, so it has to help with a good one. May be harder to seal is all. Looks good, you are rolling right along!

[David_L6]

Originally posted by sho305
If I had to do it again, I would investigate separating the back/all of the deck(not easy on Bayliner).
Here:
http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=152381#post152381

Really, it's not a big deal to pull the deck off, if you have some kind of over head hoist.

Take the rubber out of the rub rail, drill out all the pop rivets, pry the plastic trim off the transom (best way you can), drive a putty knife or something under the deck at the transom to break loose the putty it's glued together with, take out any thru fittings in splash well. disconnect any hoses (fuel fill), wiring (to bilge pump), etc. that may be connected to both the deck and hull, then start hoisting the deck off. Deck is (usually) sealed to hull with silicone. Cut the silicon while lifting deck off.

[sho305]

I would have cut the splash well out just because the seams would have been small to repair/refinish. The Bayliner has the well attached to the back seat frames/knees and posts to the floor. Also has dash attached to the BR seats and a whole solid frame there.

My Checkmate looks much easier. It only has a screwed on support at the dash walk-through, and the well just hangs in space; no attachment to the floor at all.

Obviously the Checkmate has a strong hull, and the Bayliner needs to incorporate bulkheads into the deck for stiffness. No doubt when looking at the bottom construction. The gas can nearly wore a hole through the Bayliner at 1/4". I can deflect the Bayliner skin, not the Checkmate.

[175checkmate]

I agree with ya on the checkmate. I pulled the deck off and slid forward about 3 feet. The sides of the boat flexed a little but not as much as I thought they would. The hardest part about getting the deck off is drilling the 1/2 zillion rivits out, putting them back will be just as much fun if not more.

[Rickracer]

You'd be way better off to use screws, flatwashers and locknuts to re-attach the deck to the hull. Your rubrail won't "get loose" in spots, and the whole hull will feel a bit tighter. :cool:

[175checkmate]

What size?
There where 2 set of rivits. 1 set was holding the halfs together and then there was another set holding the rub rail on.
If I use screws washers and locknuts I should be able to just use one set. Hold the rubrail and the halfs together.

[Rickracer]

I'd probably use the same size. If they were 1/8", or some odd size, I'd go up to 3/16". You WILL want a screw gun for that job. :cool:

[sho305]

If you get some beer...you might get a bud to lay in there and hold nuts on the back while you screw them tight:cool:

[David_L6]

Originally posted by 175checkmate

There where 2 set of rivits. 1 set was holding the halfs together and then there was another set holding the rub rail on.
If I use screws washers and locknuts I should be able to just use one set. Hold the rubrail and the halfs together.

At the factory, when the deck is set on the hull, they are pop riveted together at a few places just to hold the two in alignment. The rub rail is then installed with a bazillion pop rivets that go through the rub rail, deck, and hull.

I have seen some boats that were screwed together (NOT *bolted*). On those there was a strip of wood glassed inside the hull where deck and hull are joined. Still goes together the same way. A few wood screws are used to locate the deck on the hull and then the rub rail goes on with a bazillion screws.

[175checkmate]

I'm thinking I will use rivits to hold and aline the 2 halfs, ( 1st set of rivets), then use stainless screws,washers and nylock nuts to hold the rub rail on. Will have to see what kind of clearance I have.

[Barefoot Bob]

Well this is what the bottom of mine looks like. Dont know if you would consiter it much of a pad.

[175checkmate]

I would consider that a pad, nowonder you are going as fast and stable as you are. That works.

[Barefoot Bob]

Im was just looking at the post of the other guys pad. And then I looked at yours. So I took a pic and posted mine. That's the way the boat came from factory.

[175checkmate]

I was wondering how you where running that fast, the boat really carries well.

[Barefoot Bob]

I also watched your video again. Seeing as we both have the same camera's. You must have had yours set at the lowest setting. We are going to have a high of 38 on Sunday. I am hoping to try that lower unit without a cone and see if I gain anything. Then I should have a video to post:)

[Reese]

The bottom of your boat is almost identical to mine. Let me know if I'm close...

The lifting strakes are approximately 3 1/2" wide, the vee shapped pad is about 14" wide...It's about 21" across from strake to the other (outside measurement).

75 mph with a 265 is very good...you've got that boat well set up.

[Barefoot Bob]

You had me wondering so I ran down to the shop to check it out. I have the same hull you do. What year and model is your boat?
My motor is a worked over 225, we just figured its making about 265 HP

[Reese]

My boat is/was a Reinell 181 SR very similar to the 190 baja's. The bottoms are probably identical in design, the interior layout is somewhat different, they driver seating position is further aft compared to the baja's.

The construction is not much to talk about...mostly chopped glass with some matt thrown in for good measure. All in all not a bad design but there is quite a bit of room for improvement.

Three years ago we almost bought a new boat called a ski avenger by cee bee mfg., very nice layout and design unfortunately my wife decided to buy a BMW M3.

I started this project about two years ago mainly as a hobby... something to do that was totally different. I liked the basic layout of the 181 and thought with some major changes it could be a very nice ski boat...we'll see.

[Barefoot Bob]

I remember seeing the ski avenger, Beemer's are nice to though. They just dont float as well:eek:

Good luck with you boat:)

[175checkmate]

Update: After 2 days I have just about gotten all the wood out of the boat. What a mess this was.

[175checkmate]

The rest is also gone. Going to leave the factory edge to the floor. Very strong, going to glass new floor to it using it as a base.

[sho305]

Hey that looks great! The bs hard part is DONE. I thought laying the glass was kind of fun. Now you get into the new stuff. If mine looked that way I'd be down buying matting and epoxy right now. But I just squeezed the truck into the back garage, and have to pull the front end off....want to trade???

Check the 'fiberglass layup' post. Just posted a pod on there, very neat stuff.

[Barefoot Bob]

Looks like your really rippin and tearin Guss. I see you think saftey first and you still have you fire Extinguiser in your boat. Good Move:)

[sho305]

I had the garden hose next to my transom. But it was to water the grass. Every time I took a step a big cloud of glass dust went poof all over:cool:

[175checkmate]

Going to have to install the knees on eather side of the splash well, the fuel tank sits right under it. I am going to reinstall the factory center stringer and 1 on each side of that. Also going to install min-knees at the center of the transom and a cross brace tieing the 2 together. This will help support the fuel tank.

Reese, what did you make the knees out of and how did you put them together?

[sho305]

I have the same problem with the fuel tank in mine. It is over 2' wide and laying on the floor behind the seat, near the transom. I may have to change the back seat some. I would guess 3/4" for the knees, but have seen pics on here of lighter ones, even with big lightening holes in them. I had some of this 1/2 ply used for drawers in cabinets, it was about 8 plys in 1/2". Looked very strong and I bet that would work. I would think you could also run a knee down the center and into your stringer, but why did they not run the stringer to the back in the first place? My Bayliner is the same, with a cross stringer about 2.5' from the transom(at the front of the splashwell) where the stringers go forward, and different ones go back to transom? Maybe they don't need any strength here. All the deep vees I saw had big stringers all the way back and the motors were mounted on them. Maybe someone here knows.

[175checkmate]

I think the stinger did'nt go all the way back because they used the floor as part of the support. Of coarse I had no more floor. They used some hoss fiberglass in the construction of these boats.
I am not real worried about the weight of the transom and knees. Al this weight is in the rear where it needs to be. In the bow, when I rebuild the seat mount and such I will go with lighter material.

[sho305]

Maybe running the torque up the sides of the hull instead of the stringers? I like the idea of Sharkeys 1/2 round pvc pipe for secondary stringers under the floor, but not thinking you need them in this hull. I can kick the crap out of mine and it don't budge anywhere. I would like to run the stringers up a ways for any I would tie into knees however; to spread out the force.

[175checkmate]

Going to run the center all the way up to the step in front. The 2 outboard stringers will only be about 5' long. I am also going to add cross bracing to tie the stringers together.
I keep having the 6 million dollar man thing going through my head.
Still can't believe the condtion of the floor and such. This will not happen again.
It will be stronger, faster, able to leap tall wakes in a single bounce. I will go faster than 70, oh yes I will.
With all the added striengh back there, maybe I could hang a bigger motor? Naaa I already get strange looks from jonny law.:D

[sho305]

Sounds good! Believe me, you are on to the good part now. Once you see that new wood and glass in there, you are gonna be happy! Every piece looks better, and better....

[Talon2.5]

well gus, ya done it now huh!!! opened that can-o-worms :D

been there done that on a glasspar G-3 and a vector, looking good so far, i wouldnt have cut out the transom or the splashwell but just be sure to glass it good!! the floor looks like a breeze!!

[Reese]

The good thing about removing all the wood is that you have a great opportunity to design a new transom with knee braces.

I made my knee braces out of wood...actually the whole back end is made out of wood.

I have seen many people on this board laminate a butt joint knee brace with fiberglass mat or cloth. This seems to hold up pretty well but I have never used that technique on any load bearing structure.

When ever possible I generally bond (polyurethane glues) wood to fiberglass or wood to wood. The only drawback to using this technique is that the pieces must fit very closely for the bond to be good. It does take more time to cut all the pieces just right, but the end result is a very strong bond.

Regardless of which technique you're comfortable with, please use plywood for the transom and knee braces. Wood has very good properties in resin/glue absorption, it's easy to work with, and is still one of the strongest and lightest materials available.

The picture below is not what I recommend you do...it's just one example of knee brace design...your's can be much simpler.

[175checkmate]

Skip, The part I cut out of the transom was a waist. There was nothing left. The splash well is still in one peice.

Reese, looking for idea's on how to go back with the new transom and knees. I'll have to get measurements for knee spacing.

Come on guys, give me some idea's. Need input.

[175checkmate]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Reese




When ever possible I generally bond (polyurethane glues) wood to fiberglass or wood to wood. The only drawback to using this technique is that the pieces must fit very closely for the bond to be good. It does take more time to cut all the pieces just right, but the end result is a very strong bond.



Do you mean fit the peices together by makeing a male and female joint? Then glue togehter and ten glass/mat/cloth over it?

[Reese]

Making a female/male joint is preferable but even that isn't necessary.

Many of the joints I used were simple butt joints (no dado cuts) but they were always supported with additional corner braces.

In this example the corner braces tie the two butt joints together spreading the load. There is no fiberglass in the design of my transom...the only fiberglass used is a very thin layer of cloth for waterproofing.

I don't trust my capacity to use fiberglass/polyester resin as a structural material...others have good success with it, but in general it's a very poor resin for bonding anything and the results are not consistent.

My original transom did not have knee braces, it was a simple open splashwell very much like yours.

[Reese]

Keep in mind I wanted my transom to be very tough...I using more than 15" setback on my boat.

[175checkmate]

How did you bond the knees to the transom?

[Reese]

Kinda hard to explain but my transom is bonded to the knee bracket from the inside of that opening.

My design was the result of many factors including space limitation, structural support, location of gas tank etc. etc. etc.

The knee brace is one single unit extending through the back of the boat and doubling as a 10" stationary setback. The transom itself is only a 3/4" thick plywood that does nothing more than keep the water out...it does not carry any load what so ever.

From what I understand boats like STVs use the same type of design...techno mentioned it in another post.

Again let me stress that a more traditional approach will work very well...you've obviously done a good job prepping the whole area and all that's left is to bond several sheet of ply for the transom and add a couple knee braces that connect to the stringers or floor.

[Alan Power]

Ok you have gotten to the fun bit, give us some measurements.
Lenght of boat (LOA), lenght of waterline (LWL), beam max, beam at transom, max speed you wish (dare) to attain, height of boat from keel to hull/deck joint at half the LWL.
Also what clearence do you have under your splash-well when deck is installed.
We'll cook up some kick ass strenght.:D :D

[sho305]

175Checkmate, you have to remember you had a rotted out thing there, and if you just repaired it to what they had when new....it would be strong as hell. So if you add a couple little knees in there, it will be stiff as concrete. Use some high quality ply for the transom to make it stronger yet, you only need maybe one sheet anyway. Figure you could not break it with a 150hp it is rated for, so your knees will easily make it a 200+hp transom. Then you are going to tie it into the stringer too? Add more.

My Bayliner was swinging in the breeze, had to run to hardware store and buy a $18 ratchet strap because I thought for sure the motor would fall off on that 10 mile ride back here. Serious. Now, with only one 3/4" ply just like they had in there, I can stand on the cav plate and jump around(much as I dare w/out bending it)...It don't move. I added some mat to the knee thingy in there, and pured the cracks full of resin where they did not, but otherwise it was just a replacement. And thats a 275lb Force on there + my bouncing 195lbs. I found on here my 1500 only weighs 250lbs someone said(?). When you set that first piece of plywood in there and smack it, you'll see what I mean. You'll see what makes a good hull strong. And you'll be all:D :D :D

Start choppin that plywood up!!! You can fit all the pieces now even if you are going to glass later. Lots of trimming, easier if you are good with a rule. Otherwise make cardboard patterns too.

As for the knees(my .02),
I'd screw and glue them together. I used epoxy and tested it, I broke the wood before it came apart. Maybe even leave screws hanging 1/2 out near the joint, so the mat could grab them. Maybe even use deck hangers in the corners? (darn cordless drill, screws start going in everywhere!)Then mat the corners good and heavy.

I like the idea of the spacer between the knees too, then you can attach the knees to the spacer, and bolt the motor/plate through the spacer later too. With the mat/glass on it too, it will be a rock and the spacer will distribute the load around the area. That way you have a one piece transom too with nothing to weaken it, likely the best in this boat. Also like the idea of a pad/plate on the outside, but a jack does this too. Those clamps are narrow and really press on the skin with a direct mount

There are lots of ways to do it on here. I just like screws. They will hold, even if my glass gets hosed. Also try to epoxy/resin every peice so if one gets wet, it will not travel to the next one and they will all be water-proofed.

I set it all up, and ran over the way I was going to do it; as you only have so much time to epoxy the next piece on. With fresh resin, you get a better bond than if it is old and sanded. I made sure the next resin work was done in the next day or before.

I made/fit the wood and epoxied it all. Next day I epoxied the transom in, most of the inside mat and screwed/epoxied the skin back on. Next day I did the knee and filled/finished the epoxy on/in the transom and outer skin matting/filling. Had to skin over the outside later but it had to be ground and sanded smooth anyway, and was not a structural issue as the matting was in the seams already.

[175checkmate]

Measurments.

Transom: 82.5 inch wide, 13.5" tall on the sides, 20.5" at center.

The deck covering the rear/transom: 26.5" deep. 20" from hull to underside.

Splashwell: 9" deep X 29" wide
Fuel tanks is 26" wide and sits under splashwell.

Floor at rear. 29" wide and gets narrow as it goes forward.

Boat is 16' 6"

I set the top deck back inplace to see where everthing might have to go. Not a lot of room under there.
The picture is on the strb side looking aft.
Disregaurd the wire/hose nightmare. That will be last.

[175checkmate]

On the strb side is where the batt. is, on the port side is where the trim pump, and hyd pump for the jackplate is.

[175checkmate]

Looking at the back of the boat with the floor and such removed. I think I will have to run 2 sets of knees.
The outter set will be on the outside of the splashwell and will be tall enough to the upper deck to rest on, and will tie into the floor near the front of the fuel tank. Since the seperation on the knees will be wider than the floor I will have to attach them right to the hull. Not sure about this yet.
The inner knees will run under the splash well and tie into the center stringer. On this set I will also have a cross brace to help support the fuel tank.

On the port and strb sides in the rear (where the pumps are located). I am thinking of boxing it. Putting in a floor to make it level, building a batt box on one side and a set of something (not sure yet) to mount the pumps on. This would be deep enough to run from the transom out to the deck edge, about 26". This would provide a side support for the knee on each side.

Nothing is set in stone yet. Just throwing out idea's

[sho305]

Sounds good. Mine has a wood/glass box on the port side for the batt to sit in. Then has the Merc trim pump on the strbd side bolted to the transom. Way back in there! That sounds like more than enough to me. The outside stringers will support the top of the transom, and the short ones the bottom & bolts.

[175checkmate]

The problem is that on the outside knee's there won't be a stringer. There is no room. I could run a short stringer from the transom up to the edge where the seat base will rest.

[sho305]

Well, can you? Ya gotta walk around in there too. I think you can do this w/out mucking up the interior. Do you have room to raise the floor back under the gas tank? Mine has some. I might be able to make a subfloor/frame all the way up to the front of the back seat and make the seat support into it. Then could integrate knees, stringers, and seat base into one deal.

That would support them to the front of the back seat, maybe 3' from the transom? Then tie into the center stringer to carry it up front. Maybe put some of Sharkeys half round stringers under the sides of the floor to the front seats if needed? Just an idea. Maybe just make the side stringers go around the gas tank and tie into the center under the seat? That way the tank could set low yet.

[Alan Power]

I came up with more or less the same idea; you could raise the floor or just raise it in the back. You could run two new stringers up the edge of the floor, forward for about 5'. Build the rear seat mount into it too, this could also accommodate your battery and pump mounts, could be very neat.
If you want to save some of that weight you could mount your fuel tank to the side with the battery between the knees and don't raise the floor.
What was in the boat is more or less all you can do without serious restructure back there, its up to you, how much work do you want to do. But I recommend not glassing knees straight to the hull with nothing to distribute load. They will seriously point load your hull with a cyclic force right where you don't want it.

Another option is to raise the floor throughout the boat, this will raise your center of gravity though! I don't know if this would concern you?
The easiest option is to go back with what you had, run the main stringer back all the way glass in half round stringers along the floor edge with angled knees on top like the ones in the drawing I have attached.

Whatever you decide to do always think of where the force is going, try to distribute load as far and as wide as possible. The best design is you own design because you know what you want in the end. Think of force and distribution like water piping, when a large pipe (knee) meets a smaller pipe (stringer) the smaller pipe is unable to carry the same volume of water at an equal pressure. In a boat this extra force is transmitted to the hull or other structure, creating a stress raising point or hard spot, so long taper's at the end of stringers and bonded well to the hull will dissipate the load gradually.

So my recommendation is to design it your self, think about it, take into account all the ideas you have been given here they are all very good, draw it out, make cardboard templates, see how it looks and go and get cutting.

If you have any questions you can e-mail me or post them on here, I don't know how often I will be able to check back, I'm up to my neck in work. I'm working on a yacht which ran aground and put her keel through the hull, god damn blow-boaters!!!:o

Well here's a suggestion anyway.

[sho305]

Something like that looks good. But would you not run the center stringer all the way back? It is the only major stringer. This is a fairly heavy hull though, so likely this is overkill anyway.

[Alan Power]

stringer all the way back, I shaded it in light grey, but when I posted it it came out white. It is under the blue floor in the back, so you cant see it in the bottom diagram. I know this is overkill, it is only a suggestion and food for thought. But could be good for a big O/B.

[Alan Power]

stringer all the way back, I shaded it in light grey, but when I posted it it came out white. It is under the blue floor in the back, so you cant see it in the bottom diagram. I know this is overkill, it is only a suggestion and food for thought. But could be good for a big O/B.

[175checkmate]

Thanks for the info Alan. That looks about like what my drawing looks like. Only your is better looking.
I do relize that most of this is overkill, But I don't want to do it again anytime soon.

[sho305]

Get the skill saw running! I got all wound back up when I started fitting those new pieces of wood in there:D

[Outboards Unlimited]

I built a transom in my 380 laser two winters ago. I put two 4' knee braces forward but extended the transom back 14" for setback without a jack plate. I modeled it after the rangers. works great for big hp, and is very very strong. If any one wants pics let me or sandsxyz know.

[175checkmate]

Yes please post the pictures. Getting idea's from everywhere.
Thanks

[sho305]

Had computer blues for a while there....

Had another idea; maybe you could make some heavy knees that fit your gas tank, then angle them in so they meet at the front of the back seat about(make as tall as you can fit) and tie into the center stringer there. Maybe beef up the center stringer for a little ways more? Might be more work cutting and fitting, but would tie everything in good, as you'll have to hose up your floor to run the knees straight forward. Maybe set the seat right on them in the back?

[stratos]

im going to have to stop by and check out your progress

[175checkmate]

Stratos, thanks for the help lifting the halves, Told you I had been buisy.

[175checkmate]

Well, went to West marine yesterday. I came to the conclusion we need to thank the boat makers. They must be able to get fiberglass cheeper than the average guy.
Picked up a resin roller and 17 yards of 6" 24oz(I think, could be a little less) biaxle. Looks like good strong stuff.
They also had some very heavy duty woven roven. This stuff looks like you could hold up a mac truck.

Would the woven roven be good to use on the transom? It looks like it would be great for tieing the transom to the top, bottom and sides of the hull.
What do ya think.

I have been working on the c'mate. All edges are clean and I have templates cutout in cardboard for about 75% of the wood.
Going to get the 3/4 and 1/2" plywood after the holidays.

[H2Onut]

..

[H2Onut]

..

[H2Onut]

..

[bulldogdaddy]

you look like you've been doing a great job. just actually read all the thread for the first time,alot of info. hope i see some post on what glass to use for the transom. i'm all thumbs! have worked with fiberglass roofing insulation,but i'm sure that a sheet of the stuff itches alot worse:D and h20 didn't you use the pourable transom repair? if so how was working with it? is it a heavey material,cost and soforth.

[sho305]

Are you using some kind of foam there? How did it work? Looks great, and like the tubes too.

[sho305]

Keep rockin'....found someone who wants a ride when its done....:D :D :D

[175checkmate]

SHo, for her to get a ride she would have to get the wife out of the co-pilot's seat. Then after she got out of the hospital?

[bulldogdaddy]

you said it 175,but i'd have a black eye too:eek:

[bulldogdaddy]

you workin on the boat today,getting ready to go out and do a little myself!

[175checkmate]

Removed the pump, wires and hyd lines from the old hyd jackplate. Its not going to make it back on the boat.

Just waiting for the holidays to get over with. Then its plywood and glass flying time.

[Barefoot Bob]

Looks like am going to be doing a little glass work myself. I need to replace the stringers I cut out of the boat to remove the foam.

[175checkmate]

You just have to love winter projects.
It still amazes me that a boat can look so good on the outside and be so messed up on the inside.

[Barefoot Bob]

Was your pretty messed up? Mine wasnt just to bad considering. I just figured out one advantage we have to living up here....Our moisture freezes in our boats over winter and stops the rotting for a couple of months....LOL

[sho305]

Just seeing if you all were awake;) She's kinda cute aint she?

That freezing part is good on stored cars, but that ice likes to push apart anything it is trapped inside of! I am sure that helps the glass delaminate from the wood. Same thing with my Checkmate, the glass is like a rock, with no blisters or anything. Only flaw is some of the clear cracking by the waterline. And this boat has not been treated well, the flake is sticking out of the sunburned upper surfaces. The wood looks to be bad in everything behind the center seats. Glad there is no core in there!

[Barefoot Bob]

I was only teasing about the freezing and not rotting part. You are so right about it freezing with alot of water in it. Bulldogdaddy called me up last night and we were discussing that issue. That would be a real bad thing. Looks like I am going to have to glass in some new stringers now.

[175checkmate]

JUst came in from trying out the new power tools. Man works alot easyer. The transom is ready ( I think) all the old stuff is out. Sanded with 40 grit to about 6" out, should give the new glass something to stick to. Went at it for about 3 hours. I am done. Itch city. No matter how much ya cover up, the stuff still gets in.

[Barefoot Bob]

Bring that tool up...Lets play with mine...LOL
Hopee you have a Merry Christmas

[sho305]

I'm telling you, you gotta find someone in the HVAC biz and get an old furnace blower from them. It sucks/blows the dust right away all nice and quietly. You can blow nice clouds of dust right into the yard next door if you want:D

Glad to hear it is coming along 175Checkmate. I kinda liked glassing mine...maybe there is something wrong with me?:eek: :)

BFB-Do you have any pics of your work on here yet? I think I saw something about foam....I'll go look. Saw your truck&house. I am really jealous, I love wood houses. Very nice.

Had a nice Christmas, just relaxin' around here:)

[Rickracer]

That furnace blower trick works great, that's what I used when I blueprinted my 'Tron hull. It's a 220V unit, but I just happened to have a 220 outlet right at the door of my work shed at the house. Most can be wired to work off 110V too. :cool:

[sho305]

Yes, the ones I have I just put an old cord on so I can plug them in. Most furnace places toss them right in the dumpster! Make sure you leave the belt loose on it, or it will trash the bearings in most of them. I just put a block of wood under the motor to temporarily speed it up if needed. I'm trying to get a 3 speed direct drive. Also guard the belt/intake if needed so nothing gets in there, or hurt by it. They will plug up; I just blow it out once in a while and no problem. I can put it blowing across, or away from me and all the dust will go away great. Nice on hot days, or when you have to run a DA for hours sanding. Even snuck little paint jobs through it some. Best of all it was free! Its the best when you want to blow the dust out of your shop; just aim it out the door.

[Rickracer]

I kept the heating element for it too, haven't needed to rig that up yet though. After all, this is Florida. Heheheh, :cool:

[sho305]

Heheh..electric heat is a big no-no here. Way too expensive and everyone uses gas. Still some oil here too but not much. the only nice thing about this type with the motor on top, is the motor stays cleaner. Hard to move around though.

The inlaws ought to be down there by the weekend for the winter months; they are all wound up to go, and were going today but for the storm that went through Ohio trashing the roads. Going to Port Richie I think.

[175checkmate]

New 3/4 inch transom is cut out. This is the first piece. There will be 2 more just like it.
For all those people that sugjested I split the hull. Thank-you. This would have be a pain to do if the deck was still in place.

Cheep labor holding the transom. He works for food.

[175checkmate]

This is a test fit of all 3 pieces. It will be a glass wood sandwitch when done.

Brian, did you put your pieces in as one, or did you install one at a time?

I am thinking glass the plug together with extra biaxle over hanging on the outter edges so I would be able to attach the sides to the hull.

Sugjestions anyone?

[Barefoot Bob]

Looking good!!! I get to start doing some glass repair soon also. And then refoam with a nice drain system underneath it all. Letting everything dry out real good before I start though.

You got it made, my helper wants to punch the time clock right away. And I still have to feed him....LOL:D

[sho305]

I think Brian did one at a time and glassed it all in, then he glassed out farther on the next one, and so on. So each layer is glassed to the hull. You will have a hard time glassing the thing together and having dry cloth left hanging off, if that is what you mean. I would likely do one at a time so it would be easier to fill around the edges, you dont want gaps in there.

IMHO, I would do them one at a time, but I might not use all that glass between each layer like Brian did for his 500hp motor:) You can if you want to, but that amount of wood will be strong. Make sure you paint/seal the ___out of every piece though before you start. I think I would put at least one layer between to make sure there was resin there enough to glue the next one in. That should assure a seal if one gets water in it from the others too(you sealed it, then mat too). Then I would mat the outside good, then to the knees, etc. With my epoxy(west) I had to sand if not within 24 hours with the next layer/piece. I painted epoxy on all wood 2-3 times until they had a shine before they went inside.

Maybe you can figure out a better way, but the stuff is a runny mess, and easier to deal with in smaller increments. With mine, I could slap a layer of cloth on with a brush pretty fast, and it was dry by the time I had another piece cut and epoxy mixed. I worked it with the brush(had no roller) as long as I could to get it flat and layed out thin. Most itmes I scuffed it with a grinder to make sure it was flat.

If I do my Checkmate, I'll use 2-3/4" plys and another 3/4" between the knees. Also a beam across the top and another mini inverted knee if room. I don't plan on a 280 either though:D :eek:

[175checkmate]

Now that I have thought about it for a little while, I think your right. I am going in one at a time. It will be easy to fill the gaps. It will also be stronger in the long run.
Now if the weather will get above 60 deg. The glass will be flying.

[sho305]

Also, when I put my skin back on and had to screw it; I did it all dry and took it apart, then gooped it and screwed it on. You can clamp your skin, but if I do layers I'll be slipping some ss deck screws in there too;)

The glass is pretty fast to do anyway. Well, per layer it is.:rolleyes:

[175checkmate]

Well spent the day, glassing and sealing the transom wood. All 3 pieces are sealed, don't think water will be getting in there. Set the 1st piece in. Used the following. Outter skin, matt, biaxle,matt, wood.
I tried to set up a cradle to keep it all tight ( like B.Mac used) But had trouble getting it to set tight against the outter skin.
So I drilled some holes and screwed it all together. Once set the screw will be removed and the holes sealed. This may not have been the right way but I needed to get it tight to the outter skin.

Used much resin today, all in all a good day. Only glued my hand to the roller once. The darn dog didn't fair so well, he is still tryng to get the resin off. lol

[175checkmate]

What is the mix used to fill in the crack's and gaps.
I am using poly resin.
Thanks guys.

[sho305]

Hey, make sure you get the stuff to fill with, its a bitch without! They use that kiddie hair stuff, or you get the additive...microbaloons or something. I got stuff that did not work so well and will do better next time. I resorted to duroglass! You mix the resin and add it until it is pasty like you want to fill, hopefully someone will jump in here cause I'd like to know the best stuff to use myself!

[Scott]

I used zinc coated screws to join the pieces, West Systems fiberglass manual says it's ok to leave them in so......I did. Just made sure there weren't any where I may need holes later and all went well. I did try to remove a couple and twisted the heads off! Guess the resin/glass did a good job stickin'!
I used Kitty hair for filling some areas and made my own "kitty hair" by chopping up some glass matt and mixing it in resin. West systems has an assortment of "filler" material additives to add to resin to provide filler consistancy.
You sure are doing an impressive job! Looks fantastic sir!

[sho305]

I bought a little box of 1" & 1 1/4" SS deck screws. Countersunk the skin about 1/8" deep and used 1" there, and used longer ones for stingers and interior parts. In the transom they are still there heck yes! I slopped the resin on and screwed it, then I ground and put two little patches of cloth maybe 2"x2" over all the heads...about 15 screws, every corner and every 4-6". Made sure the screw holes were full of resin too. I fit every screw all dry before hand. It was pretty fast though. Can't see where the screws in there are going anywhere until the wood goes away. SS will not rust and pop either. If somehow the epoxy came loose, I know the screw is still there holding. This might not be a good idea in an area that has to flex, but the transom better not.

That epoxy sticks better than anything! I had some drips on the bottom where it was all shiney and not even cleaned. I thought I would pop them off and knocked a chunk of gelcoat right out of the bottom! Twice! I got smart and sanded them off.

[Alan Power]

Scot; a tip for removing screws from polyester or epoxy is, hold the sharp end of a nail in a pliers, place the head of the nail on the head of the screw and heat the nail with a torch or burner. The nail should come out with ease.
Hopes this makes life a bit easier.
Alan:)

[175checkmate]

Thanks for the input guys. I am also using zinc coated screw. They are 1 1/4" so they will go through one board but not all the way through the next.

Kitty hair. I can do that. I had enough of that floating around when I was cutting the pieces for the 1st part of the transom. I would hate to have to be the person that has to remove the transom 30 years from now. Stuck on good.

One thing I noticed. I started wondering this about an hour in to this. When you buy a gal. of poly resin they give you 2 tubes of MEK. But you will need like 4 1/2 tubes to mixe the hole gal.
I found that funny. Good thing I bought extra.

[B.Mac]

Lookin' great so far!!! You better buy 5 gal pails of resin instead of 1 gal containers....I've got twelve gallons of resin in my transom so far and still gotta glass the stringers in:eek:

5 gals of polyester resin runs @ $60.00 + $3.00 for a small bottle of MEK.....Find you a fiberglass supplier and stay away from them rich- folk sail (blo- boat blahahahahahah) boat stores. Whatever knee configuration you come up with, don't brace them to the hull, integrate then into, or bond them to a stringer system even if it's a short stringer system or it'll stress the hull, distort it, or worse, punch through....:eek:

I would install one layer of core at a time using two or three layers of 1.5 oz. matt between each......this eliminates the problem of voids between the cores....also you want to drill 1/4" holes every 6" O.C. in each layer so the resin AND air has some where to escape. Mix cabosil with resin and schmutz it in the voids around the perimeter and then lay up another matt and a layer of 1708 biaxel leaving it 6" wider all the way around to bond each successive layer to the hull.

Lookin' good! Your'e hard at it!!! Let's keep it comin' we wanna see progress, progress, progress!!!
B.MAC:D

[175checkmate]

Going to be working on it today. Temps are going to be above 60.

I can only get 1 gal jugs of resin. Small po-dunk town. Had to drive 150 miles round trip to get the fiberglass.

The knee's are going to have to be far enough apart to clear the fuel tank. The problem is that the boat only has one stringer. The stringers for the knees will have to be very short to get under the floor.

I read somewhere that using 2" PVC pipe and cutting it in half, cut a slot for the knee and then glass/bond the knee into the slot and glass/bond to the floor. This may be stronger than the 1" tall piece of 3/4 plywood. I then would be able to make it about 3-4 feet long.

I am also going to box the rear. Going to take a flat piece of 3/4 tie it to the transom. the knees, hull and floor and anything else that gets in the way, lol
Trying for what greg did with his stream.

[175checkmate]

Boxed like this.

[Alan Power]

I have been thinking about that split PVC stringer idea, and didn't go with it in mine. The resin will not bond to the PVC, so it is only a former, you will need to apply extra layers to gain adequate strength. Another idea would be to use the split pipe or some timber stock covered in plastic as a former, lay up on a bench and glass into the boat separately.
Just a thought, I wasn't crazy about the idea, I was afraid it might promote delamination of the stringer.
Have a look at TECHNO's site to see a how-to on the top-hat section, I think He did it with epoxy but polyester would be fine.

How much clearance do you have under the floor for stringers, or is that not your problem?

[175checkmate]

Did not realize that resin would'nt bond to the plastic.
Tha main stringer is 5" tall, but where the knees will be tied in to the hull is only about an inch.

[B.Mac]

Cut six - 3" wide 3/4" marine plywood strips and laminate three of them together to create 2 1/2"+ thick stock.
Then cut to length.
Take your angle finder and determine rise of hull and cut your angle into the bottom of your new stock on a table saw so grain of plywood stands upright when sitting on hull.
Bond and glass them into the hull exactly where knees are to be placed then bond/ screw new floor to the mini stringers.
Short screws :eek:
Position new knees directly over mini stringers and bond and glass to the floor. Your stringers may be short but if they are also wide you can spread the load evenly without stressing the hull.
If you go with the box design just place your verticals on the floor directly over your mini stringers. Between the stringers and the floor the load will be spread like peanut butter on bread.
B.MAC:D

[B.Mac]

you got mail........:D
B.MAC:D

[175checkmate]

B.mac, you have mail.
Thanks for the stringer idea, that would work and still be strong.
Thanks

[Reese]

everyone is going to finish thier boat before me....again. I haven't even flipped the damn thing to start the pad...

Com'on guys don't be in such a hurry...slow down and smell the styrene monomer.:D

PS...now that I have such a dandy new integrated ski pole I'll probably sell the stainless three piont swivel eze that mounts to the top of the deck...let me know if any of you are interested.

[175checkmate]

Well another day of sand/glass/sand/glass/screw up/sand/sand/sand/glass.

It is getting there. Spend about 3 hrs today putting the deck back on for a test fit. Lift it on. Cut and trim various points of contact. But in the end it fits back where its supposed to. I must have done something right. Tight fit.


Reese. Shoot me a picture of your 3 point ski pole. It might work on my boat. Is it does what do you want for it?

[sho305]

Checkmate175, glad to hear things are going now for you. Don't it look better with that new wood/glass in there?? I loved it. Get the glass off your hands and get a pic for us!

Reese, get a way from that styrene and get to work!!:D That is the idea of this board isn't it?lol! I have to work on a stupid rusty truck! Sucks! Had to cut off the frame bolts with a hacksaw and thought my arms were going to fall off. I hate it when I can't get a powertool in something!:mad: That, and it was 0 out this morning too...cold! I think....you gotta get it done by spring!!! There you go! :D :eek: I'd love to trade with you Reese.

[B.Mac]

Just 'cause 'yer rig is completely redesigned is no excuse!!! Time is money!!! Chop chop!!!

Hey listen, I want next dibs on that ski pole if Gus passes.......
Thanks...
B.MAC:D

[Reese]

I'm actually on a business trip and won't be back till the weekend...I'll post some pics of the pole when I get back.

I downloaded this pic from the web...it's the same pole I have.

[Barefoot Bob]

I think its really cool that you built your ski tow into your boat. I have always wanted to fab. something like that. I would have to mount the base in my rear live well though. I dont really no how strong it is, so I have just left it a tripod. I did turn a chunk of aluminum on the lathe and made myself a removable swivel head and nylon bushing tohough.

Post some pics of your and how you mounted it. I would like to see that:)

[175checkmate]

Reese, Thats just what the doctor ordered, What do you want for it?
Figure shipping it to zip code 31501

[Reese]

Check...I'll be back home on Saturday, I used the pole twice before I started tearing the boat apart...I just want to make sure all the deck hardware and pins are still in the box. I paid $160 so maybe $75 would be fair???

Barefoot...I hear ya. The tripod is a good system but the side poles are always getting in the way, and in your case you also have a rope guard...its got to be tough getting in and out.

My setup is a very simple design that uses a reinforced deck to couteract the pulling forces...this makes the base much less critical. I'll see if I can find some pics.

[Reese]

replies and this thread will surpass Boat of the Year! :p

I already forgot what this thread was orginally about.:rolleyes:

[Barefoot Bob]

Reese, the back two poles aren't really in the way at all. I just dont like the look. Although I do have to remove the back poles to get to my battery. So yes!!!! It is a pain

$75.00 is a real good deal for a stainless steel tripod

[175checkmate]

Great reese, I sent ya a PM.
What was this thread all about? Its torn apart in my backyard and I have the itch to prove it.

I wonder what I will have to reinforce to install this pod. It really doesent matter, its all apart already.

[sho305]

Hehehe...."Dude, can you pull me skiing with that little 16'? How come you got such a big motor in it??"

"The motor? It's kinda loud once I start it I can't hear you, here is the rope--RRRRrrrrrrRRRRrrrr." Hehehe:D :D :D

[175checkmate]

I have water skied behind the boat. Took a little bit for the wife to learn that you don't need to go to WOT. About pulled my arms out a few times. 1/2 throttle will work just fine. lol

[Barefoot Bob]

But on the barefoot starts it sure is nice to say "hit it" and be standing in a couple of seconds:)

[Reese]

and hit it hard, especially single slolam ski...barefoot is much worse...you need to get to 35 mph asap.

Check...most standard rear decks are plenty strong for the tripod ski pole...if you can stand on the deck it's fine.

Bob...I sketched a few designs but ended up with a very simple pole configuration. It uses a reinforced deck that counteracts the pulling forces on the pole. (don't pay attention to the mess)...

[Reese]

the pole is not actually finished...notice the base is not welded and doesn't have bolt holes.

I had a tight space limitation with the dual fuel fills and the gas tank.

[sho305]

Sweet copper! Done that in houses, nice stuff and really pretty easy to do. So Reese....what motor you planing to hang on there this spring:D ?

Nice pole too, that way the deck will only have to steady it, and will not have the twisting force on it.

[Barefoot Bob]

I like the pole setup. Are you going to make a revable swivel head? How tall is it,I guess thats what I fear. Having it to tall and having it bend in half. You can really feel them move in tournament ski boats. But they are also very thick.

I also think the copper pipe looks sweet. Will it hold up to the pounding and flexing in the boat?

[175checkmate]

Great looking pipe work. Came out looking great.
Nice pole, looks strong.
I can stand on the rear deck, but I may still add some support back there.

[Reese]

The pole itself is made from 2" x .125 wall tubing...the head (not swivel) is from an old ski pole and the whole thing will be welded together and chromed...should look pretty good.

Copper fuel fill lines are 1 1/2" and if you look closely you'll see that it is not welded to the base plate...there is a small rubber connector. The two end will attach to billet fuel fills with the same rubber hose...that gives it all the necessary flex it needs.

I just to get going and flip this damn thing over and get to the best part...the PAAAAADDDDD!!!!!

[sho305]

I think the copper is quite durable within reason, that whole 1" sleeve where it inserts fills with solder and makes a bond.

One thing; on my old Chris Craft it has a rubber coupling/hose to the filler from the metal tank, and both sides are grounded to the motor. Not knowing if it has to be grounded or what. It is soldered on there. You sure are detailed in your execution on that project Reese, that will be a hell of a rig! Your using some great brain power there. Lots of good ideas.

[Alan Power]

Amazing job, you really are putting a lot of thought into this work, the boat looks great! How much longer until you get it wet!

[Reese]

appreciate the support...sad thing is that most of my friends aren't very impressed with my efforts...guess they just don't get it.

My hope is to have this thing in the water by April.

Check, got home late on saturday and found the ski pole with all the cleats and pins...almost looks brand new. I'll send you a pm tomorrow after I get into work.

[sho305]

Are not impressed? Sure they are not blind? I'd say it might be a little more weight, but it will be big time HD; and with that type boat it will not matter much anyway. You will have all kinds of cool built in stuff to play with. The only thing I can see, is if you are serious about tunes I would try to fit 1 or 2 10" subs someplace in there. If you get free-airs, you do not need a box even. That boat is going to be a boss ride, you just wait until you get it done and they will be all happy to ride in it I bet!!!:cool:

[175checkmate]

Thats great Reese, Need an address and who to make the check out to.

[175checkmate]

Well I can say its getting there. I am tired of grinding.
I still have to put a few layers of glass on the inside.

[Reese]

did you say you were going to add some knees to the new transom....?

It was soooo many posts ago that you started this thread I forgot what all you were planning.

Did we talk about closed splashwell padded deck...:D :D :D

[sho305]

Sweet! Looks great! All that nice HARD wood:) Gonna be a new boat:cool:

Speaking of wood, I got a pic here of some girls that want a ride this spring....?

[Reese]

you know the girly policy...nothing hot. Chubby or plain is okay but no Hot.;)

BTW, check...your package is going out today...I'll send you a PM about shipping (UPS-Ground)...

[sho305]

Ahhh, come on! The are wearing bikinis:D No nasty stuff here, just some fun loving girls that would like to take a ride in your boat and hit some waves.....:D :D ;) (Big waves)

Oops, got ya. None of that here;)

[175checkmate]

I grafted the factor skin back on. There where 25 holes in the transom I dug out. Not going to have that problem again.

[175checkmate]

The splash well has been cut back ( had to the transom is a lot thicker) The transom will go streight across. The dip will not be there. Not going to close it off.

I should be able to rig the motor about 3" higher on the transom.

[Barefoot Bob]

Isnt it a nice feeling haveing something that solid to bolt your motor too:)

SHO......I want to see them pics:D

[B.Mac]

Lookin' good!!! Looks like you've got the same "I'll never have to do this again" mentality as I do. Fiberglass truly, truly bites. I hate it. But.........Once it's done......:D

Looks like you got 3-3/4 plywood cores in there? Have you glassed each layer to the hull with biaxel or did you assemble the transom and then drop it in?

Lookin good & makin' good progress!!!
B.MAC:D

Hey Reese.......C'mon let's go!!! Flip that rig and do that pad!!!
I want to profit from your "pioneering" !!!!
B.MAC:D

[175checkmate]

Yep, there is a layer of matt and biaxle inbetween each layer of 3/4. I had to add a 3/8 piece for filler to conform to the shape of the c'mate transom. Its the part painted dark brown. The outter skin was fun. After digging all the old wood out of it and rebuilding it with mat and biaxle. I glassed it on. Fit ok but will need sanding and filling in spots.

I still have to glass in the inside face of the transom.

Once the knees are added I don't think it will move. It doesent move now. I chalked the tires on the trailer and stood on the transom and tried to make it move. 210 lb jumping and dancing on the transom. What a sight. Neighbors don't know what to think.

[Scott]

I can't believe what I just read. LOL
A couple weeks ago Kathy walked into the garage just in time to see me jumping on the jack plate with my hands on the ceiling. The look on her face was priceless. I had to explain I was just listening for any cracking or sounds of movement.
I'm impressed with the way you rebuilt this transom. very clan, very solid. ....wish I had done mine similarly.

[Reese]

before I finished off the splashwell my wife came out to the garage and said "honey don't take this the wrong way but do you know what you're doing...that transom doesn't look very strong"

I replied, "absolutely"...when she went back in the house I quickly rigged a transom tester and started jumping up and down on it just to make sure...can you imagine my transom breaking with my wife on the boat...that thought is just too scary..:D :D :D

[175checkmate]

Another day of grinding and glass has gone by. Layed 2 layers of glass on the inside. Pulled all the scews back out of the transom and started filling and sanding.

Started working on the stringers and cross bracing. The center stringer is no problem just 1 long piece of 3/4 plywood. The cross bracing on the other hand is going to be the hardest part. Just can't seem to get the angle right. There has to be an easer way of doing this.

So oh masters of the fiberglass/boat repair work. HELP.:confused:

[sho305]

What is the prob? You can use cardboard. I like to set up a square. You can lay a board across the bottom maybe where your floor will go, good and straight, even. Then the center is your stringer and 90 degrees to board. So you can measure center to the end of your crosspiece(minus 1/2 stringer width), and down to floor at stringer(subtract if board above top of stringer). Then take a building square and you can lay it out easy from the 90 corner/center using the hieght and width of the triangle you measured. Then fill in the angled side that is the bottom. Make sense? Both sides should be the same, but you know how that goes. I would make a temp and try it for fit. You could level the hull and then use the level inside to check stuff too. Is that what you meant?

[175checkmate]

I'll try that. Used up a bunch of cardboard today and never did get it right. Gave me a major head ake.

[sho305]

Maybe this explains, my 40 second diagram:rolleyes: You'll have to adjust it if the bottom is bumpy or curved.

[B.Mac]

A carpenter's angle finder will help. Home Depot @$3
Use it to determine the correct angle of the hull rise in relation to an established horizontal plane (a straight board centered accross the top of the main stringer spanning from port to starboard) then transfer the angle to a cardboard template, for a rough fit.
OR
take your horizontal plane and layout 1" increments from center to starboard and center to port. Measure the distance from the TOP of the horizontal plane (board) to the hull surface using a 12" ruler every inch and record the measurement. Transfer these measurements to a cardboard template then "connect the dots".
Insert the template and it should be close enough now to make any final adjustments simply by laying a standard magic marker on it's side with the tip touching the template. Slide the marker accross the hull bottom while leaving the tip on your rough template......that will give you an accurate hull fit. Then trim the top of the template to match your horizontal reference (BOTTOM of board).
B.MAC:D

[175checkmate]

Thanks guys. I will try that. What a pain. Did not have this much trouble putting in the transom, lol

[JW]

Could make the all time high number of views for a single post!

[Rickracer]

Take a scrap piece of thin aluminum about a half inch wide, wrap it around a magic marker, (or Sanford Sharpie) so that it can trace a line a given distance ( I usually make it an inch) from what you are guiding it with, ( the boat bottom), then you can take it out and cut the line that same distance from your new mark. :cool:

P.S. I was so tired the other night, I forgot to add that you do this on a pattern that is 1/2 smaller than the part you intend to make. Then you lay the pattern on the piece, and trace it again, using your "marking tool" or "widget", and it faithfully reproduces the contour of the bottom. You do have to remember to keep the tool perpendicular to the part you are tracing. Try it, it works well. :cool:

[175checkmate]

1st stage of boxing in the rear is completed. Still have to put another 3 layers of glass. Room for the bildge pump and a place for the discharger hose to exit. Cross braces are doubled. 3/4 ply.
Looks wet because it is. Oh the fun I am having.

[Alan Power]

That process of measuring you describe is called joggling, had to do that with a whole boat once for a college assignment. Never again!!!
Sorry, a useless bit of info ya!

[B.Mac]

Joggling :p
That's a nicer term than I would use to name that process:eek:
But it does work if all else fails:cool:
Lookin' great Gus.......why'd ya stop? Get back in that boat!!!
Slop that resin.....grind that glass!!!
Doesn't it really feel great when 'yer eyeballs get filled up with glass dust and you gotta blast 'yerself in the eyeballs with a high pressure garden hose :eek: 'ta get it out? I look like I've been smokin' gunji weed for a week:eek: I know...I know.... wear saftey glasses.....but they steam up.......get a film of dust on 'em and you cant see diddly after 5 minutes......:rolleyes:
B.MAC:D

[175checkmate]

Fiberglass eyeballs, yep have them. Looking at the weather today, looks like I am going to indoors. I still have to cut and glass all the wood for the interior.

Its gettting there.

B.mac, I have to laugh when you said you had over 4 gal. of resin in your transom. I thought to my self, man thats alot. Well I have over 4 gal. of resin in the transom. lol

[sho305]

The Bayliner only had about an 18" wide transom. I used over a half gallon of resin plus equal amount of the quart of hardener. I did paint the floor panels and stuff, but not much cloth on those.

[Barefoot Bob]

Just wondering when you mix up the resin. Do you use that whole tube of hardener to a quart of resin???

[sho305]

That is the fun part! You can adjust it to kick faster or slower for the tempurature or how long you need to work it. I used epoxy and you can only mix it to ratio, and you have to buy different speeds of hardener/catylist to change it. Don't use too little, or you will have a nasty mess on your hands! I remember counting drops when I last used it, making maybe a half cup at a time.

[Barefoot Bob]

Ya, we counted drops for the first peice. I mixed up just a bit and wanted to coat it before we install. But it took over 24 hours to dry and its still tacky. I will just add more hardener on the next piece;)

Thanks:D

[175checkmate]

Bob, oh your having fun now. Here's what I have found. i am using poly resin and MEK. I found plastic QT containers at lowes, $.84 ea. they have the listing on the sides in oz. I normaly mix 12oz at a time. If you look on the side of the tube of hardner you will see line markings. I have found that when mixing 12 oz of resin, when adding the hardner I go from one line to the next. This gives a working time of 10-15 min, depending on outside temp. 60-65 deg. The glass is ready for sanding in about 45 min.
If the temp is warmer or I have direct sunlight, I use a little less hardner.

Also the plastic qt tubs are nice, When the resin is hard just squeze the tub and pull on the bush. Presto out it comes and you can use the tube again. I can get about 4 uses out of each tub.
I also use the cheep $.84 brushes. I have a resin roller for the big stuff, gets the bubbles out real nice.

[sho305]

I got a box of latex gloves too, priceless!

[Barefoot Bob]

Your real funny...Its 0 degree's here today, but it 70 in my shop.
I was going to pick up some asitom or whatever that crap is, to clean out the brush. I have been useing cottage cheeze containers for mixing. Have a coat on all the wood now. Letting it dry and going to start glassing it in place.

Do you need to ruff it up before you apply the rezin soaked cloth? And between cloth applications?

[175checkmate]

Yes, I use 60 grit, it knocks down the bumps and makes a real good suface for bonding. I use a palm sander and 60 grit for the flat easy stuff and 6" grinder with 40 grit for the stuff that need major help.

[Barefoot Bob]

are you talking regular fiberglass rezin? I used up a quart of rezin to cote the boards. Can I use just fiberglass rezin or do you have an evercoat part # for this poly rezin??

[sho305]

Acetone. Try laquer thinner for cleaning the brushes, it worked better on my epoxy anyway. You got however long it says to recoat, maybe 24-48 hours before you have to sand it. I hit most of it with the grinder anyway to get rid of stuff sticking up.

There are different kinds of resin, depends on what you are doing with it. I think on a floor or something I would not worry much, but the good hulls now are laid up with expensive resin with better qualities.

I had 80 grit on a DA I used, and a disker with 24 grit grinder pad on it. Also a hog with 80 and 40 to flatten it better.

[175checkmate]

I use just the resin. Add some glass to the seams and such when you put it together.

I had good luck on my sea ray when I had to re-do the wood backings for the interior. Just painted on the resin, glassed in the mounting bolts and stapled the vinal back on. Lasted for a long time and then I sold the boat. I am having to the same thing on the mate.

As far as cleaning the brushes. Nope gave up on that. I just buy cheep brushes. They get thrown out with the rubber gloves.