MAD EFI vs. Brcato SVS.

[beer30]

I would like to hear some opinions on the pros and cons of each unit:confused:. People have told me that the MAD EFI bogs off the line, but runs like a raped date;) on the big end. I actually rode in a boat a couple weeks ago that had the MAD, ran really good.:) Thanks, Chuck

[cutwater]

huck, I have the Mad EFI on a '95 3L that was originally a carb. It has never idled very nicely, on the rough side, like it's always running too rich. Acceleration is decent, the prop vents maybe too much. Mid range punch is excellent, say you are cruising along and someone pulls up alongside, nail the throttle and it pulls hard and fast. Top end seems good, but I never had the carbs set up to compare. I've had a best of 77mph on the Shadow with a Fleetmaster lower that needs to be plugged off and raised. I did try a couple of times with a lwp lower, but it turned out to have a different gear ratio and I didn't get top end rpms.

Bski has some experience with the SVS on a 250, he'll probably chime in.

[M. HARDEE]

I would like to hear some opinions on the pros and cons of each unit:confused:. People have told me that the MAD EFI bogs off the line, but runs like a raped date;) on the big end. I actually rode in a boat a couple weeks ago that had the MAD, ran really good.:) Thanks, Chuck-NOT AND EXPERT -- holiday inn EXPRESS just once ----------- I have both and both work great --idle off line --etc----IF EITHER ONE IS BOGGING barring a problem from something other than fuel. Means the parameters or not set correct for that paticular engine requirements. bogging ---can be cause by too rich /to lean on idle and off idle settings both have accel- pump settings to much = bog sluggish------to little= bog sluggish ----- USE STEEM WHEEL AND ADD FUEL AS JUST AS U START To accelarate --- IF WORSE GO THE OTHER WAY .do not lean up steem wheel and run all the way through --- may to lean in mid and top . just use the wheel anitially to find direction -- FAT/LEAN-- then go in and change parometers according to get steemwheel back neutral setting == parameters a must unless u want to chance a burn piston ---or leave it fat --- HOPE THAT HELPS --- other than some off the wall settings and things i do with mine (THAT CAN'T BE DONE) thats why i'm NOT GOING INTO IT because i get stressed trying to comprehind people that are smarter than me . I'm sure there someone that can explain it better and knows more about them than me .:cheers:Mitch

[beer30]

-NOT AND EXPERT -- holiday inn just once ----------- I have both and both work great --idle off line --etc----IF EITHER ONE IS BOGGING barring a problem from something other than fuel. Means the parameters or not set correct for that paticular engine requirements. bogging ---can be cause by too rich /to lean on idle and off idle settings both have accel- pump settings to much = bog sluggish------to little= bog sluggish ----- USE STEEM WHEEL AND ADD FUEL AS JUST AS U START To accelarate --- IF WORSE GO THE OTHER WAY .do not lean up steem wheel and run all the way through --- may to lean in mid and top . just use the wheel anitially to find direction -- FAT/LEAN-- then go in and change parometers according to get steemwheel back neutral setting == parameters a must unless u want to chance a burn piston ---or leave it fat --- HOPE THAT HELPS --- other than some off the wall settings and things i do with mine (THAT CAN'T BE DONE) thats why i'm NOT GOING INTO IT because i get stressed trying to comprehind people that are smarter than me . I'm sure there someone that can explain it better .:cheers:Mitch

If you were going to buy one or the other, which one would you pick? Chuck

[M. HARDEE]

Because of the learning curve on the mad programing and not sure the availability of componets now--- the brakato is the most user friendly .IF YOU GIVE TONY a ACCURATE over view of YOUR MOTOR ( Tony can set it up to be usually bolt on and go--- UNLESS YOU get confuse and tell him about the MYTH MOTOR YOUR DREAMING ABOUT building and then bolt it on the one you HAVE = BOG lol ---- Call tony he'll take care of you . Mitch

[Instigator]

I have the Mad system and know Tony's fairly well as well. I agree 100% w/everything that Mitch said and it should be noted that this was from hands on experience and not what some expert told him. That is huge and is the info you're looking for.
Here's some hand's on experience I've had w/my Mad system.
1. It's a bitch to tune w/o some one looking over your shoulder while you learn. With Wayne Taylor no longer with us we have no one for help. On the other hand, Tony is REALLY good with help on his system and answers the phone when you need help. That is HUGE in learning either system.
2. Once you learn the Mad system it is pretty slick and is easy to tune.
3. If you have a Mad system and change ANYTHING on your rig, you must re-tune. This is because the Mad uses a throttle position sensor for adjusting tune (sensing load) to load. Wayne sold me on this working and it does not. On a light boat you can come close to being happy IF you're good at tuning.
As an example Chuck, on my stock lay up River Rocket I had a 3.3 OMC making north of 300 HP's w/a fairly conservative port map meaning it still had decent mid range and low end. With a light load and small prop you tune way more towards the lean side than with heavy load and big wheel as the motor is now (heavily loaded) attempting to build more torque than horsepower which requires much more fuel .
With the Mad you have to change the tune back and forth or find a happy median. In other words if you're by your self, 5 gls fuel and a 24 drag is one tune. Stop at the dock, add Tracy, 25 gls fuel and a 32 ET the motor will REQUIRE/DEMAND a totally different tune. W/the Mad if you leave in the tune for the light load after picking up Tracy (and the rest of your load) and head out, you will probably make to plane but not much farther as your motor is now in full lean/burn down mode!
W/the Mad, again your only option is to constantly change tune or set to a median which must be for the loaded set up to prevent going lean. Problem here is that you are now pig fat on the light set up. I tried this on my STV. I tuned for a medium load and a 32 ET. Tune was pretty much spot on. Started perfect (hot and cold which is different!), idled cleanly, pulled like a freight train (for a 32), and had a good/safe tune @ WFO.
I went back to dock and switched to a 24 drag (this was with 1.62 gears) w/o changing tune and ran it. The thing was an absolute turd!
W/the correct tune for that set up, that rig was/is the quickest boat I've ever driven and I'd run anything w/o nitrous. W/the safe tune it ran like it had a stock 200, a passenger in the boat and had a 26" wheel on it. Absolutely dramatic! That test taught me all I needed to know about the Mad system.
4. In a nut shell I think the Mad is probably the system of choice (especially when on a budget) for the racer as they are constantly tuning and again once used to it, is simple to do and has great tunibility to it. On the other hand, I've never met, talked to or even heard of ANYONE using it in a more recreational application that was happy w/it! Ton'y system uses a MAP sensor (manifold pressure) same as the Mercs to sense load and does a way better job of it than a throttle position sensor. Contact Frank Jackson on this site and ask him his opinion. He has had the Mad (I'll be it on a heavier application) for several yrs, been to Waynes for help etc, etc and just ordered one of Tony's systems to replace it.

Sorry for the book but this should be some helpful info and all first hand.
Gary

PS, Tony, feel free to correct or ad to anything I may have gotten wrong ;)

[M. HARDEE]

:iagree: but got headacke thinking about u typing all that ---:D

[beer30]

So SVS is more user friendly. What do you all think the difference is in CFM's for each unit. Or is that a crazy question.:p Do you all think there is a big difference in power? Price-wise your right, the MAD is cheaper, used or new. Chuck

[specboatops]

I have a MAD on my 2.5, I like it , mine starts and Idles beautifully....I can Idle all day without it loading up. very strong on the top end ( I gained 8 mph on GPS from a horn to this) what I don't like about it is the fuel economy (SUCKS) and with it spraying in front of the reeds it tends to make a mess on the back of my boat when trimming up to anchor/beach.

Chris

[M. HARDEE]

NOT KNOWING WHAT MOTOR YOUR WORKING WITH HERE--- THE VARIBLES MAKE IT HARD TO GET STRAIGHT TO WHAT YOUR BEST NEEDS WOULD BE -------Just So we on the same rullette wheel .glad i got a good pecker or i couldn't type at all. lol THE ECU 'S are the main parts for tuning --- the air horns /plenhem's are not that big of a deal as long as it gets PLENTY OF AIR --------------- IF YOUR RUNNING THE LASER STYLE ----------------------------------- injector and throttle plate --(LASER STYLE)- it is the most restrictive . If i had laser and wanted to step up ---biggest bang for buck would be to change to horn---------------------- front/ plenhelm and side or spacer plate injectors --- CHEAPER THAN ( laser brakato SVS ) and and THE BRAKATO ECU---- if you have horn/ PLENHELM allready of anykind GO WITH BRACATO ECU DONE DEAL --- YOU'LL BE HAPPY -- and i can rest my pecker.:cheers: Mitch

[Instigator]

So SVS is more user friendly. What do you all think the difference is in CFM's for each unit. Or is that a crazy question.:p Do you all think there is a big difference in power? Price-wise your right, the MAD is cheaper, used or new. Chuck

CFM's??? Cubic Feet per Minute ??? If so, would depend on intake which is independent from EFI and it's effect would be same from syst to syst.
On my OMC I am using Waynes 6 individually cast throttle bodies which do have a slightly larger venturi than last set of Tony's I saw but most of that would be made up for in tune. Interesting that I'm reading a really good book on EFI right now and one of the points it makes is that what good does the best system in the world do if it's too difficult to program?? Their theory is that the simple system will out run the high zoot one 99% of the time due to this aspect.

If you are referring to cubic feet, don't get to wigged out on that either. Find a car mag where they test heads before/after porting. They'll see a 50% improvement on the flow bench that only equates to 8 HP's on the dyno! (on a 500+ HP motor) Another example in the OMC world is E-Tec front 1/2 compared to the OEM carbed crap us OMC guys have been stuck with forever. Carbed version is the most screwed up, inefficient design you can imagine. E-Tec version looks just like from a 2.5 race motor. We expected world changing improvement going to that. Guys I know that have tested apples to apples say it's very, very close :o

Mitch, it's Friday so it's already beer thirty ;) PS, tried typing with mine but destroyed 3 lap tops!

[M. HARDEE]

CFM's not going dare wid ya!!!
'now everbody wanting to NO all my secrets and getting all teckno on me :eek::D --FROM ya post think yu got a good handle on the tuning .. :D HELL ya screan name says it all :rolleyes::D----lol --- BUT it can be done your way i'm sure --- but for me---I GET A PRETTY WOMAN TO LOOK over HER shoulder and help ME tune . use the soft touch accel pump feature --- more programable --- then tune for mid and high rpm. ( no rev limiter ) how she ported will regulate ----- dat. lol
and will cut down on destruction--- reprograming and trying different so call can't do systems------lmao -----stick with it ---has NEVER fail to make me happy-------PS (programable system)- LOL --- JMO in the hands on real world and not gonna get in a pissing contest about it :D.lol----:cheers: Mitch ------ Gator nobody can say we don't stay on topic . lol

[brussrude]

I have the Mad system and know Tony's fairly well as well. I agree 100% w/everything that Mitch said and it should be noted that this was from hands on experience and not what some expert told him. That is huge and is the info you're looking for.
Here's some hand's on experience I've had w/my Mad system.
1. It's a bitch to tune w/o some one looking over your shoulder while you learn. With Wayne Taylor no longer with us we have no one for help. On the other hand, Tony is REALLY good with help on his system and answers the phone when you need help. That is HUGE in learning either system.
2. Once you learn the Mad system it is pretty slick and is easy to tune.
3. If you have a Mad system and change ANYTHING on your rig, you must re-tune. This is because the Mad uses a throttle position sensor for adjusting tune (sensing load) to load. Wayne sold me on this working and it does not. On a light boat you can come close to being happy IF you're good at tuning.
As an example Chuck, on my stock lay up River Rocket I had a 3.3 OMC making north of 300 HP's w/a fairly conservative port map meaning it still had decent mid range and low end. With a light load and small prop you tune way more towards the lean side than with heavy load and big wheel as the motor is now (heavily loaded) attempting to build more torque than horsepower which requires much more fuel .
With the Mad you have to change the tune back and forth or find a happy median. In other words if you're by your self, 5 gls fuel and a 24 drag is one tune. Stop at the dock, add Tracy, 25 gls fuel and a 32 ET the motor will REQUIRE/DEMAND a totally different tune. W/the Mad if you leave in the tune for the light load after picking up Tracy (and the rest of your load) and head out, you will probably make to plane but not much farther as your motor is now in full lean/burn down mode!
W/the Mad, again your only option is to constantly change tune or set to a median which must be for the loaded set up to prevent going lean. Problem here is that you are now pig fat on the light set up. I tried this on my STV. I tuned for a medium load and a 32 ET. Tune was pretty much spot on. Started perfect (hot and cold which is different!), idled cleanly, pulled like a freight train (for a 32), and had a good/safe tune @ WFO.
I went back to dock and switched to a 24 drag (this was with 1.62 gears) w/o changing tune and ran it. The thing was an absolute turd!
W/the correct tune for that set up, that rig was/is the quickest boat I've ever driven and I'd run anything w/o nitrous. W/the safe tune it ran like it had a stock 200, a passenger in the boat and had a 26" wheel on it. Absolutely dramatic! That test taught me all I needed to know about the Mad system.
4. In a nut shell I think the Mad is probably the system of choice (especially when on a budget) for the racer as they are constantly tuning and again once used to it, is simple to do and has great tunibility to it. On the other hand, I've never met, talked to or even heard of ANYONE using it in a more recreational application that was happy w/it! Ton'y system uses a MAP sensor (manifold pressure) same as the Mercs to sense load and does a way better job of it than a throttle position sensor. Contact Frank Jackson on this site and ask him his opinion. He has had the Mad (I'll be it on a heavier application) for several yrs, been to Waynes for help etc, etc and just ordered one of Tony's systems to replace it.

Sorry for the book but this should be some helpful info and all first hand.
Gary

PS, Tony, feel free to correct or ad to anything I may have gotten wrong ;)

I run Tony's system on my V-4 Looper.. Very happy with it. most of the time I'm alone in the boat,but if I want to go out with one or two extra passengers I have totally no problem. Have the steam wheel if I need to do some minor adjustments while running

Bruss

[Liberator*21]

Chuck,
Like I said before, I've run them both and if you want balls out performance from 3800 RPM on up, it's the MAD EFI. But your going to give up low speed driveability. SVS is the more friendly system, bolt it on and go, but it's not able to produce the power of the MAD EFI. On my boat the MAD EFI gave me an honest 10 MPH on the big end more than anything else I've run before. As for "FLOW or as you put it CFM, the MAD out flows the SVS easy.