Oldskier's Glastron Carlson Contender

[oldskier]

I had just about decided not to post a thread of this rebuild because I am trying to rebuild this one after a previous owner screwed up and cut the transom out from the oiutside. Somebody was doing that to a Hydrostream while I was building mine and was takin a lickin from a bunch of you here. Oh well, I suspect I can make this boat work and since the transom is in and I have the rough sanding of the deck done and I'm about to flip it to do the bottom, I thought I'd post a few pics for posterity. What I did with the transom is as follows.

I ground the glass INSIDE the boat back about 9-10 inches and laid in some 24 oz. stitchmat, then inserted the new transom core while the glass was wet and glassed the same piece of stitchmat 9-10 inches on the OUTSIDE of the transom. Then I went back inside and put another layer of stitchmat inside the transom core. I tied the deck stringers in with stitchmat to the transom also. Then I ground the outside of the hull back about 4 inches and laid a layer of 1 1/2 oz. mat over the transom. Fairing that mess was a pain. I think the transom is close to flat, it won't be perfect.

I had to replace most of the 2 X 4 'backbone' in the center of the hull. Covered with stitchmat and 1 1/2 oz. mat. I'm using vinylester throughout.

I believe it will hold up. If not, you can call me 'Bob'.

I got a mongrel Merc inline with it, has a stock '67 100 hp powerhead stuck on a BP mid with a stock lower. Anybody has an SSM the want to donate, I'll come pick it up.....

Heres a couple pics.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0794.jpg?t=1287706489


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0793.jpg?t=1287706568

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0792.jpg?t=1287706604

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0796.jpg?t=1287706651

Bernie

[samari]

Looks good Bernie, I have been waiting to see what you were up to with this hull.

[sjcolwell2]

looks good !!!

[oldskier]

Well, can't say I agree with you guys, when I am prepping a hull for paint I think it looks progressively worse until the 1st coat of primer goes on. Thanks though, I think it will eventually look good. Wanna see a Contender that looks good? Look at Brusters.....

[samari]

Ok, it looks better than it did when you brought it home. It's on the way to looking great. Is that better?:D

[oldskier]

Yeah Chet, I'll take that. Doesnt take much to look better than when it had a 5 foot by 1 1/2 foot hole in the back.....

It's a little embarrassing for friends and family to see it day by day looking like crap, they think I'm nuts. Then when it gets a coat of paint they all say WOW! that looks GOOD!

My dad said 'fools and small children should never see a job half completed...'

here.s a pic of Brusters boat. My goal...

[sjcolwell2]

looks great !!!

[oldskier]

Got it flipped to fair the bottom. It has blisters in the paint directly under where the bunks touched it...they are in the gel not the repaint...looks like a lot of sanding. I'm just working on getting the rear edge straight and sharp right now.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0830.jpg?t=1288279358

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0831.jpg?t=1288279624

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0832.jpg?t=1288279665


Bernie

[Mark75H]

Looks like a real good start Bernie. I think you are a little ahead of me now, since I have to do my dash and the backbone. I'm probably stalled for the season due to temperature until next April. If there is a string of warm days I might be able to put my backbone and dash in, but I'm not counting on it. My original backbone was ply, I'm putting in a real nice piece of oak

My bottom needs the same clean up, one corner is convex and everything else is concave.

[gregpro50]

Nice. Glad to see an old Contender getting the treatment. I love those boats.

[oldskier]

Well here in the mountens it snowed yesterday, so this hillbilly went in the
shop to work on the mongrel Merc SS that I got with the boat. I got the carbs cleaned
and re gasketed, cleaned and lubed the starter, re wired the distributor, new
fuel lines on and hooked it up and turned it over on the starter...It's making
pretty little sparks, looks like it will be a runner!

Today I pulled the lower and found nice black oil in the gearcase with no water.
Got impeller and gaskets an such on order.

Funny thing, found the 6th mud dobber nest in the BP mid, (5 on the
powerhead...) along with a BIRD NEST! Almost wish I had fired it off before I
found it....would have been ROFL funny to see it blow out the exhaust!

Sam, I used a plain ol 2 X 4 for the backbone, with a layer of 24 oz. stitchmat and a layer of 1 1/2 oz. mat I guess it will be strong enough....

I was amazed at how flat the bottom still is, everything in the last 4 ft. is within a 16th.

Bernie.

[oldskier]

Well, The old Mongrel Merc is alive! I ran it Saturday, fired off with no problem. Ran it on a cocktail of fuel, Seafoam, fuel stabilizer and lots of oil. Smoked like a steam train and makes an awful, beautiful noise. Should cause some concern in the lake....

Put a new impeller in, it is pumping water a little weak compared to my 1350, but I'll hook up the water pressure gauge next time before it hits the water.

I took the lower, skirt and BP adapter off for paint, got a beautiful new wrap around from Jim Rineart and also have a faceplate ordered from him. The original faceplate sticker has been marinating in the parts washer for a week and the sticker refuses to budge. I'll post some pics when I get the rattle can repaint done, the top cowl came out excellent for spray bomb work.

The cowl I got from Jim is 1/2 in. taller than the old one so I made some spacers, wonder what the diff is? I ASSumed all the inlines were the same cowl. Wrong again Sherlock.

Bernie

[raymar]

Bernie,
All the 99.8 cubic inch engines use the taller cowl; It started with the 1250 in 1968, and continued on until the inline 6 was dropped. The cowls from 1965 through 1969 89 and 93 cubic inch engines were
shorter. Also no 100 H.P. engine was built for the 1966-67 model years, just the 950 and the 1100 which
also said "Tiger" on the blocks. The 100 H.P appeared again in 1968 and 1969 model years, the same years as the 1250 engines.
Hope this helps and doesn't confuse.
Don

[oldskier]

Don, There is no s/n plate on this clamp, and even if there was I doubt it would be matching to the powerhead. Can I determine by a casting number what year/hp rating this poor old pile of parts is? (836-3260, it does say Tiger on there, also has and 'E' in the casting)

It was sold to the guy I bought it from advertised on Craigslist as a 100 HP powerhead

Thanks for the info on the cowl, I don't care what year it is, it replaced one that was dented in the grooved section too badly to be fixed to a presentable condition and the new one is SWEEET!

Thanks, Bernie

[Ronny Jetmore]

paint it nassau blue with large flake.

[Mark75H]

Tiger is an 89 ci motor, I don't think you can tell anything more from the casting number.

[raymar]

The word "TIGER" is also on the 93 cubic inch 1100 blocks; I have one with the casting number 836-2485. The main difference between the 89 & 93 cubic inch engines is the bore. The 93 cubic inch engines are 2 15/16" and
all other Merc inline 6 two-stroke engines are 2 7/8" bore. (89 cubic inch & larger)

[Mark75H]

Which ones say Panther?

125's say Typhoon

[raymar]

The "PANTHER" engines were the 4cyl. 65 hp 650 engines.

[oldskier]

I'll just keep on calling it the 'mongrel'.....

[oldskier]

Got the mongrel painted, just spray bomb work but the cowl and face plate Jim Rineart sold me looks great.

I like the idea of an aluminum paint on the lower so when the paint blows off it looks better than if it were black, but not sure if I REALLY like the color, too shiny....


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0836.jpg?t=1290382967

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0834.jpg?t=1290383213

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0837.jpg?t=1290382938

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0835.jpg?t=1290383384


This thing is truly a mongrel. One of the tilt shocks was originally WHITE....no telling how old it is. Since it is an unidentifiable 89 CI block, obviously stock garden variety motor on a hi perf. mid it is really a sheep in wolfs clothing. I am concerned that the noise of the open exhaust may turn out to discourage me from using the boat much. Oh well, I hope I have a few days during winter that I can get out and continue to fair the hull, and be ready to spray paint when it gets warm enough in spring.


Bernie

[raymar]

Looking good Bernie!! No one should have any problem telling it's not a Merc.

Look on the bottom of the carbs for the bore size. The 100 HP Mercs used
1 3/16" bore carbs up thru 1965 models. The 68-69 models used 1 1/16"bore.

[oldskier]

looks like it says 1 1/16?

[Mark75H]

Looking at the 1969 Merc specs ... 1 1/16" carbs on early 1000's ---- 1 1/4" carbs on late 1000's (1000-1's) and 1250's

1963 specs show 1 3/16"

1968 spec shows 1 3/32"

Looks like that was the right thing to do and it has narrowed it down.

[raymar]

Sounds right on the 1 1/16". I was quoting from memory on the 68-69 100
hp engines. Never saw a 100 hp with 1 1/4" bore except 1000 BP. I have either a 68 or 69 1000 that is original, I'll check the carbs on it.
Bernie, it looks like you have a 68 or 69 with carb bores other than
1 3/16.

[oldskier]

Thanks guys.

[Hippie459MN]

Wow Bernie, That looks great! If it turns out as good as the last two you did you will have an awesome looking boat when your done. Subscribed. :D

[oldskier]

Thanks Hip, just wish I had some more good weather this year. All I can do for the rest of winter is try and get parts together and work on the trailer. Are you gonna have the 'bus' ready next season?

[Hippie459MN]

Thanks Hip, just wish I had some more good weather this year. All I can do for the rest of winter is try and get parts together and work on the trailer. Are you gonna have the 'bus' ready next season?

I am shooting for late spring/early summer. Now that I am all finished with my big move and finally settling in I can get to work on it when the weather is nice to me but have a feeling that nothing will get done until the snow starts to melt but I should be able to really crank it out then and be done with it. Well, Not totally done but it will be on the water anyways. :)

[delawarerick]

I like that motor:thumbsup:where did you get that mid? Sound should be sweet:DRick

[oldskier]

Rick, Got it near Dallas. The mid is kind of a mystery to me. You would think someone who had a BP would have kept it hi performance if it lost a powerhead. I guess it was scavenged for parts and rebuilt with stock stuff years later. Would love to hear the story.

I don't know about sweet but I bet everybody will hear it alright....

[oldskier]

I got to finish the rough sanding on the bottom last weekend and ordered the primer. Still got a few places to fill. ....just wish there was hope of it getting warm enough to SHOOT the primer anytime soon....

I took all the excess junk off the trailer to get it ready for repaint too. I've done three boats now and all three trailers had about a half dozen or more bolted on gizmos that needed to be trashed...why do people do that?

[Hippie459MN]

I've done three boats now and all three trailers had about a half dozen or more bolted on gizmos that needed to be trashed...why do people do that?

Cause they know you are going to buy it and work on it. :D

Cant wait to see more pictures of your progress. You have done 2, maybe 3 boat, in the time its taking me to do just the one. :(

[oldskier]

Hip you are in the REAL deep freeze so ya got an excuse. It's the Florida guys who really got it good. Plus all my kids are WORKING adults now....

[delawarerick]

Post some pictures I wish I had your talent and patience. Rick

[oldskier]

Rick. As I mentioned before, it just keeps looking worse until the 1st primer coat. I guess it looks as bad as it is going to now. Don't know about talent, patience maybe....persistence definitely

[rjdubiel]

whats up bernie? where do you get the motivation!!! before winter i put in a garage heater and put your old viper behind the vking to try and get some work done on it but nothing has moved yet!! dont forget the pics!

[oldskier]

RJ! Dude there are a few of us looking for YOU!

Specifically Jeff (Sonik) is wanting to get together with you and check out the yellow boat. It seems the trim tabs controversy is still simmering. He also would like to get you to some of the Hydrostream Power tour events. Plus Hippie's been asking if you are a member over on his Hydrostream site.

Good to hear from you!

Bernie

[Hippie459MN]

whats up bernie? where do you get the motivation!!! before winter i put in a garage heater and put your old viper behind the vking to try and get some work done on it but nothing has moved yet!! dont forget the pics!


RJ! Dude there are a few of us looking for YOU!

Specifically Jeff (Sonik) is wanting to get together with you and check out the yellow boat. It seems the trim tabs controversy is still simmering. He also would like to get you to some of the Hydrostream Power tour events. Plus Hippie's been asking if you are a member over on his Hydrostream site.

Good to hear from you!

Bernie

I am one of them! I would love to see that boat in person. I followed Bernies build thread and have looked at it over and over and was sad to see him sell it but was excited to see it end up up here in Minnesota. And just down the road from me too. I would love to come see that thing and I am sure Chet would also.

[rjdubiel]

Ya, not really simmering but never got around to pulling the other one off to see how it rides. Never really got a lot of time out last year but i want to change that forsure this summer. I will have to try to make sure to get on here more often, i am sure once i decide to work on the Vking i will be again for i am not sure if i remeber how to use a grinder:eek: i also will have to PM some of those guys to see whats up and try to get all the gofast boat in our area out afew times this summer for a mini tour :thumbsup:

good to see you still staying busy over there in the Appalachia!! (bango noise i can could spell that) keep it up buddy and make sure to post the pics. alot more interesting than all these letters on the screen!!

later.

[oldskier]

Well keep getting requests for pics, keep saying it's really ugly, so I guess I should record just how ugly so I can look back and remember...


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0846.jpg?t=1297777602

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0847.jpg?t=1297777803

here's what I'm cleaning up currently, yes I do have a nack for finding ugly trailers....

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0848.jpg?t=1297777899

The red primer is what I have cleaned and painted, the thing will eventually be satin black, because I can't find any 'invisible' paint.


Bernie

[Bruster]

Make sure you remove the 2 wedges on the bottom.

Well keep getting requests for pics, keep saying it's really ugly, so I guess I should record just how ugly so I can look back and remember...


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0846.jpg?t=1297777602

Bernie

[oldskier]

Bruster....I spent some time trying to RESTORE the two wedges.....tell me more? I assumed they were an anti-porpoising attempt?

[Bruster]

I would spend some more time and grind them off. You work hard to make the bottom of your boat flat. Why would you want 2 big carefully restored hooks on the bottom of your boat?

[oldskier]

I'll take your advise. I was concerned that the wedges were gonna keep the bow from flying, just like you mentioned in your PM. It'll just take a pass or two with the grinder.

I was thinking that maybe they are not large enough to change the running attitude of the hull but maybe big enough to avoid porpoising.

I guess if I'm gonna run a flatty, it might as well be flat....Thanks.

[oldskier]

I ground off the wedges and now I'm just waiting for a day warm and dry enough to shoot the primer. The next pics should look a LOT better....

Got the po old junk trailer fixed, painted and rigged for the boat.

[oldskier]

Got the bottom in primer today, Interlux epoxy. Sure shows the pinholes, about a million of 'em. On to epoxy filler and start sanding with 150 again....at least it's getting smoother.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0854.jpg?t=1298755970

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0852.jpg?t=1298756015

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0850.jpg?t=1298756064

[oldskier]

Sprayed the white Imron on the bottom, had some runs and I'll need to sand and re spray a section on the starboard side, had a mixing snafu. Otherwise looks like all my paint work. "It don't look too bad if ya don't look too close!"

[Old_Skool]

Lookin' good! Nothing like a coat of paint, huh?!

[oldskier]

Lookin' good! Nothing like a coat of paint, huh?!


Yeah, the 1st color that goes on a project is probably the most satisfying milestone. Thanks, Bernie

[milkdud]

Bernie, Im real curious how your boat handles without the wedges. I left mine alone because I figured they were there for a reason. But I do have to be working the trim thru the speed ranges because of porpoise. I feel my hop at mid range is directly related to those wedges, but I dont know until I take them off some day?
Conrad

[oldskier]

Conrad, I hope it works OK 'cause the motor doesn't have trim....if it hops I'll be getting NAUTICUS TRIM TABS! I took off the wedges hoping to be able to get the bow up. That is usually not my style since I assume whoever designed the boat was smarter than me, but my Hydrostream porpoised with the hooked pad so I thought I'd try this one the other way.

Bernie

[delawarerick]

:thumbsup:looking good trim tabs:nonod:thought you could steer throught it:DRick

[oldskier]

:thumbsup:looking good trim tabs:nonod:thought you could steer throught it:DRick

Rick LOL! If this one chine walks I'll sink it!

[oldskier]

Back on the trailer....

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0858.jpg?t=1301181963

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0862.jpg?t=1301182062

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0861.jpg?t=1301182172


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0859.jpg?t=1301182820

Another milestone....

I was hoping I could set the boat up high enough to put a skeg on it without installing a dropped section on the back rail of the trailer but it's pretty high. I'm guessing I'll have to half launch the van to get the boat floated....


Bernie

[Bruster]

I took them off my Challenger. They made if feel like the boat was glued to the water. After I took them off the boat runs free.


Bernie, Im real curious how your boat handles without the wedges. I left mine alone because I figured they were there for a reason. But I do have to be working the trim thru the speed ranges because of porpoise. I feel my hop at mid range is directly related to those wedges, but I dont know until I take them off some day?
Conrad

[oldskier]

Sprayed primer on the deck today. More pinholes, more filling, more sanding. Getting close now, once the color is on it I am making a 'glove box' under the deck to help support the section hanging over the bulkhead like I did on the Powercat. Then some filling and sanding on the floor, build the seat box, then re-rig it.

Bernie

[samari]

Looks great Bernie! I missed that you had flipped it.

[oldskier]

Thanks Chet, here's a couple pics with the deck in white primer, this is what it will finally look like, sorta.

http://www.screamandfly.com/Thanks%20Chet,%20here%27s%20a%20couple%20pics%20with%20the%20deck%20in%20white%20primer,%20this%20is %20what%20it%20will%20finally%20look%20like,%20sorta.http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0895.jpg?t=1302021972

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0894.jpg?t=1302022290

[oldskier]

Finally found where I had saved a pic of the boat when it was picked up by a friend in Texas for me, shows what had been done to the transom by the previous owner. I guess he wanted to try to keep the transom inner skin?

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/blueboat_0451.jpg?t=1302024291

Bernie

[milkdud]

holy cow!! you've come a long way!!. Please run that thing soon, I want to hear how it runs.
conrad

[milkdud]

I took them off my Challenger. They made if feel like the boat was glued to the water. After I took them off the boat runs free.

Im really close to taking them off!!, My boat really hugs the water until i get over 50 mph. Bruster did your's porpoise less in the mid range speeds after the wedges were taken off??

I think there may have been a scare back in the 60s of tunnels blowing over, those wedges my have been a safety marketing tool to sell boats. But I am just gusessing here.

Thats my main concern.
Conrad

[oldskier]

Conrad, I'm getting there...I hope it will be done by June.

[milkdud]

You would like my trailer . I believe its what they cam with from the factory? The frame is notched out for the fin. I need a fin!!

Conrad

[milkdud]

Couldnt wait till June. I knocked mine off today. Ill test it tomorrow if its not raining.

Conrad

[oldskier]

Hmm...I hit wood when I did mine, had to put a layer of biax and a layer of mat down. Yours must be somewhat thicker than mine. I'd keep an eye on it for a few runs just in case.

And Be CAREFUL! You got enough HP bolted on to start thinkin blowover...even if the hull is not known for it.

[milkdud]

Well, I think I solved nothing. My boat wants to porpoise more now :( :( It seems to really fast up top now with nearly NEUTRAL trim. Not much positive at all!!. It goes hard, but the porpoise at mid range unless it tuck the motor WAY in for negative trim is a real ****tter.

I must have a hook under there that I havent seen. I think Im gonna flip it soon and look it over real good. Possibly glass some runners on the bottom to make it into a full tunnel. It would be areal shallow tunnel, at MAX 1 inch.

Conrad

[oldskier]

I was looking at that when I had mine flipped. It looks easy enough to do.

[rjdubiel]

Looks great Bernie!!!! Ice is starting to get off the lakes up here so I guess it is time to pull that last one wing I got left off the back of the old Yellow-skier you sold me and start a whole new thread about those wings..... should be fun! keep at it Bernie, you will complete 3 boats before i even get one Vking finished!

[oldskier]

Keep that one RJ, you can order parts from Nauticus to replace the other one. Let some of the Hydrostream pilots around there drive it first though. I got a STRONG feeling your gonna want them back on it. Let me know.

[rjdubiel]

I will let you know. they do help the turning I can assure you that!!! when you gonna get this project on the water!! hell it has to be 80 degrees down there by now. 60's here, sometimes.....

[oldskier]

It's been somewhere between 80 and 50 off and on for the last few days. 80 Tuesday and 50 Wednesday. The sanding is done, plan to shoot color on the deck if the weather lets me this weekend. Then I need to add the seatbox and console box, clean up the interior and rig it.

[oldskier]

Couple of pics with the final paint. Not much difference from the ones with primer but a big diff to me...sanding is done, moving on to seat box and console/glove box, then rigging.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0898.jpg?t=1303080720

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0897.jpg?t=1303080752

[Old_Skool]

Looks good Bernie, can't wait to see her rigged!

[Hippie459MN]

Bernie, Just wondering if you got my message about the emblems. :)

The boat is looking great! So when are you going to start another one now that you are a pro at this? :thumbsup:

[oldskier]

Hey Hip, sent you a reply. Not sure about another one, I think I'm burning out finally, had to do some grinding today and had to force myself to get out there and do it. It would have to be something really special.

[samari]

Looks great. I bet after getting it out on the water you'll change your mind and start looking for another project.

[oldskier]

Looks great. I bet after getting it out on the water you'll change your mind and start looking for another project.

We'll see, any progress on the VKing yet?

[milkdud]

Bernie here is a shot if my Contender interior. The main seat box is 19.5 inches long and it is 3.75 inches tall at the rear. The round rear portion of the seat box is 6.5 inches tall.

Conrad

[samari]

We'll see, any progress on the VKing yet?

The bottom is getting painted on sat.

[oldskier]

The bottom is getting painted on sat.


WOW! You got a thread here or over on HSF?

[Hippie459MN]

WOW! You got a thread here or over on HSF?

Right here - http://www.hydrostreamforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=911 :thumbsup:

He has been slacking on the update pictures though.

[oldskier]

Bernie here is a shot if my Contender interior. The main seat box is 19.5 inches long and it is 3.75 inches tall at the rear. The round rear portion of the seat box is 6.5 inches tall.

Conrad


Thanks Conrad! Of course I don't have the original seats. and mine probably weren't like yours, the rear seat boxes were rectangular. I'm going to use a couple of injection molded buckets made by Moeller.

http://www.easternmarineoutlet.com/White-Helm-Chair-Cushion-Set-and-Mounting-Plate-ST2000HD/

The seatbox is 4.75" tall at the front, I hope thats not too high. Looks like it will be OK.

Thanks for the pic:thumbsup:

Bernie

[milkdud]

I got my wedges put back on. 6 inches wide by nearly 1/2 inch tall. I made them bigger this time. The boat runs a LOT better with them on. They may be masking an issue with this hull, but for now IM leaving them. Went from 0-65 MPH several times and it ran out great.

Conrad

[oldskier]

Uh oh. Oh well, I'll put the tabs on mine. Glad it's working for you.

Got the interior painted in garage floor paint and got most of the rigging done, still need to mount the foot throttle and battery box and then the motor. Should be water testing in a week or so....I guess I need to get down to the DMV and get it registered. Have a set of Moeller roto-molded buckets coming Tuesday.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0903.jpg?t=1304296912


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0900.jpg?t=1304297545


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0901.jpg?t=1304297580

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0906.jpg?t=1304297612

[samari]

Looks great Bernie.

[milkdud]

Good job. I wish mine looked that good! Get ready to turn left ok. And never turn right over 30mph :) I may switch my boat over to right steer someday to counter the motor torque. My 1500 jams the left side of the boat down under hard acceleration sometimes if Im not paying attention.

Cannot wait to hear your report when its running.
Conrad

[Old_Skool]

Cool thread, cooler boat!

[oldskier]

Took a half day off yesterday, rented a cherry picker and mounted the motor.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x10/bernieallan/DSCN0908.jpg?t=1304425619

[delawarerick]

That looks great did you sand/polish the lower? Rick

[oldskier]

That looks great did you sand/polish the lower? Rick
Nah, Just silver paint...that way when it blows off it doesn't look as bad as black....

[milkdud]

Berine,

I thought Id post my new Contender video here for you to look at. This is what you can look fwd to enjoying :)
Conrad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aWycby9aFk

[Murph]

That is a thing of Beauty.
It looks so cool.
Awesome Job.

[oldskier]

Thanks Murph, I hope it works as good as it looks.

Conrad, mine won't be nearly as fast as yours, probably not as fast as yours was with the 1100. It sure does run with a flat attitude, I hope I don't porpoise too bad without the wedges. Great vid. Got the cam on top of the cowl, great idea!

[oldskier]

Test drove it Friday...forgot the camera...call me Flipper....

[Hippie459MN]

So how did it drive? :D

[XstreamVking]

I believe in this case, "call me flipper" ain't good.... As in porpoising......Damn, I was rooting for it to behave for you after all the hard work. At least you know the "fix".

[oldskier]

Yep, porpoise city. No power trim so I can set the trim pin 1 setting lower, it is a little 'up' at the 3rd setting and a little 'down' at the second. I had it on 3. The Nauticus tabs are on order.

[Murph]

We would add a small type wedge the whole width of the hull to help with porpoising on some flat hulls.
Would run a 1" strip of glass across the hull and then a 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
Then smooth it out it so it was like a small hook to the whole hull at the transom.
We would test it out and make adjustments and when happy we finish it all of nice and pretty.
Kind of adjusted the boat angle so you could keep the trim of the motor.

[milkdud]

Bernie, you are just like my boat :( At least its not just my boat that is having these problems. Let me know how your tabs work
Conrad

[milkdud]

ive got a 25 cleaver 26 cleaver 23 chopper 24 chopper 26 chopper two-23 two blade bronze cupped 21 michigan super cup 23 michigan super cup and bunch more random crap.

boat still porpoises bad with the wedges taken off the boat. Porpoise is less with wedges on the boat but much more but controllable with trim.

What else do you recommend barbender?
Conrad

[oldskier]

Well the experiment of replacing the transom from the outside had a major test....I had the motor tilted horizontal to change the trim pin setting and I saw it start to come down...I was smart enough not to try to stop it, just watched it come down faster and faster.....WHAM!

I guess the old 'shock absorbers' are done, the motor never slowed down. The paint cracked on the port side of the well where the transom is glassed to the hull. I ground out the 9" crack and found a void in MY glasswork. Nobody to blame but me on this one.

Anyway I ground it out and re-glassed it, we will have to see how it holds up on the water. Trying to get it to the lake tomorrow.....

[milkdud]

I run anywhere from 1 inch off the transom to about 5.5 inches up off the transom. Depends on what I am doing that day. With no wedge in the bottom of the boat this thing is down right FUNNY to drive. It hops all over the place until I get up to 60+mph. The wedges def help and make the porpoise easier to deal with. Cleavers run my boat the best. But the boat still will porpoise no matter what prop I use in the mid range. If I keep on the trim I can control it. But like Bernies boat, some dont have trim to control it.

I think Im past trying different props thinking its a prop issue. Ive been working on this boat with nearly 10 different props at a variety of different heights, set back , trim angle and wedge placement.

Ive made improvements, but not perfect. Its afraid its how it is. My boat with a cleaver, prop shaft center 2 inches below boat runs 70 mph smooth at near 0 neutral trim. Its running negative trim in the mid range to control the porpoise.

Conrad

[milkdud]

Here is an older pic of my set up. It can go up at least 3 more inches than this photo and thats where I run it. The bottom of the boat is lower than the lowest water intake. No LWPU, NO nose cone. Just pure fishing lower unit fun. I did add water scoops.

Yes I have a PSI gauge. :)

Conrad

[milkdud]

Barbender, Im sending you a PM.
Sorry Bernie.
Conrad

[Brabender]

Bernie For the Record, up off the transom is
irrelevant, propshaft to the bottom measurement
is how its done.

Dud you need to 86 that speedo pitot
its creating unnecessary, drag and turbulance to the prop
From the way the water breaks off your motor at speed, in the video
you attached, I would say you are very deep. Setup looks off
a bit, by the way it carries as well, if of course you are looking
to improve handling and top end...Still think you have a prop/setup issue
But what do I know

[milkdud]

What part of
Here is an older pic of my set up is not clear enough. Just because I'm irritated I went and shot a picture of my current set up that I have been using this spring. If you think this is running too low while using stock water intake ports your nutz. I might squeeze 1 inch more out of it but I'm maxed out on my jack plate. I agree the pilot tube can be an issue. What is interesting is it broke off half way thru the video and I didnt notice any better speed or prop bite. Just because its on there does not mean I read my speed by it. Its for reference only. GPS records all top speeds. Which is 69.5 mph on a calm lake last year. I have averaged a bit over 70 mph going both ways on a river this year. It does have more I agree, but I have not got there yet.

Brabender I believe you have great knowledge on many boats and I appreciate that knowledge and I will try to learn from it. But when you make general set up comments like they are new thoughts that have not been addressed they do not add or help These boats are unique. Not full tunnels, not full flatties. Bruster, and others I know with them show that the 16 footers run well with not much porpoise. I and Bernie and others with 14 footers have found the hulls to be different and porpoise more. Its a HULL issue not a prop issue. Some props will mask it better but the hull is the root cause.

I have talked with you via PM and you expressed what you think I know quite well.

I wish you safe boating.
Conrad

[Brabender]

Bernie i am sorry for the Thread HiJack

and Dud I don't claim to know everything
You could try to find a 15" mid
also epoxy the top half of your water pickups
and scoops on lower portion if you are losing water pressure

also notching the transom may help as well
Don't get you panties all up in a bunch,

You are Deep tho
and Stop blaming the Boat

[milkdud]

Obviously you dont know everything. I dont either:)

BUT that is a 15 inch mid. I dont run any 20's I can show you better pictures if you have not seen one lately. I am not loosing water PSI. But if I get any higher the bullet will not force it up there anymore. No epoxy will help that fact.

I would like to learn about notching the transom. I dont know what you mean by this. (for real)

"panties in a bunch" from a guy name BRAbender. Now that is funny :)

Do you really think this motor can get much higher with stock water intakes. I agree with LWP iw can go MUCH higher.

STOP BLAMING THE PROP! or get one of these boats so you can give first hand advice :)

Yes I am letting this get to me and I should let it go if your wondering :) But nearly everything you have advised is either really basic knowedge on not applicable. Stuff that was thought of a long time ago.

Thanks
conrad

[Brabender]

You have some great Camera Angles in your previous
Videos, Can you make a few wide open passes w the camera pointed at the prop, Gearcase

Would be very Helpful

On the Big cats we put a v groove in the Pad directly in front of
the Bullet, allows us to run higher and not lose water pressure
I am currently 1 7/8 above the bottom, and can go higher

Wasnt sure on the 15" inline
thought it was 20" looked tall

Heres one of mine:D

[milkdud]

That is a very cool boat! We tried to get the camera angle facing backwards for the prop, but the suction cup would not hold onto my crappy flaking gel coat :) Ill try to post a shot looking back at the prop when I make a mount for the camera off the jack plate. I want to make it solid so I dont loose my buddies camera :)
Conrad

[oldskier]

You guys can hash out how a fast boat should be set up. Mine aint it. It is a GOOD boat but a LOUSY speed boat. Porpoise still happening so I came home and readjusted again, I was able to make it quit buy setting the trim pin so the motors tucked under a little but I could feel it nosing in at the blazing top speed of 42 MPH. This boat will never compete with yours Conrad. 70 is a respectable speed for this hull which was never considered fast to race boat standards. To make one fast I suspect you would need to make it a full tunnel.

Anyway the transom survived....I now have a goal of 45 mph....

At 42 the motor spins 5100 with the 21p prop, Gonna drop it down to a 19p when I can find one.

[milkdud]

Im glad your transom was not ruined. That would have been terrible. Brabender and I worked it out, sorry for the banter.

As to you tucking the motor in. That is exactly what mine needs to stay calm. I actually had to modify my jack plate to allow more negative trim (tuck in) to control some of the porpoise at low speed. I expecially need the tuck in with extra passengers in the front.

When tucked in it rides well but is scrubbing off speed something fierce because the hull has way too much wetted area. I can launch my boat and accelerate to 70 mph without porpoising but I have to be SPOT ON with the trim the whole way thru. It starts out wayy tucked in and ends up with near 0 trim to some positive trim at WOT. If I start trimming up too fast too early during the acceleration I can come into some lousy porpoise that kills my run.

If you get set up well I bet you will see at least 50 mph with that 1000. My 900 with old bronze props pushed this boat 53 mph. If I had better props it might have been a bit better.



Conrad

[oldskier]

Conrad, did your 900 have tilt and trim? Running on a jack plate? I don't have either, and I'm not sure I want them. I kinda like the old school feel of this one with no 'modern conveniences'. I would like to find a 19p bronze 2 blade for it though. If I find say...a 1250 powerhead, I might try to rig it to go fast some day. Right now the cav plate is even with the bottom. With that much LU under water it's gonna be real hard to go fast. Without a plate it's gonna be hard to raise it up. I thought about an SSM but it's alot of money for this old girl.

[milkdud]

Bernie, At first my 1965 900 had no jackplate and no power trim. This motor came with the boat and I believe it to be the original. I set the motor up on a 2x4 and a few thick paint sticks :) real hi tech I know :) I suppose the motor was up off the trans maybe 2 inches at most when when I did those runs. I had power trim on the 900 for a short time until it ate its own reed valves. (motor now rebuilt on my Lone Star Holiday)

Before the power trim I had to set it higher than I wanted trim wise and ride thru it. It was such a pain and was very unsafe. I actually had the boat throw me out once and leave me behind at 50 mph when the boat got into a very bad chine walk amplified by loose steering. Power trim is a lifeline when your having problems and the boat gets squirrly. Just a bump down and usually the boat calms out. After that day I got dual cable steer and solid motor mounts. This tamed the beast down a lot and I have never had an uncomfortable moment since (knock on wood) I never got the jack plate until I swapped for a 1250.

The 1965 900 mounted to the boat jacked up at most 2 inches running a very nice 21 bronze cupped prop I got 53 mph. I soon got a 1100 and got 56 mph with the same prop I believe. When the 1100 lost igniton I switched to the 1250 and made the jackplate and purchased some used cleaver props. The addition of the better props and height got me up to 65 mph. Then I blew a rod out the front of the 1250. (my fault the motor was old and wore leaking water under the bottom seals and I never tore it down) It happened on my last run of the season too :( When I got my 1500 running late last year I ran 69 mph on the first run :) Ive only been able to run 70 this year. I need to do a few things before it goes any faster.

Thats my progression over the last two years.

The things that keep it safe and fun are solid motor mounts, dual cable steer, new bushings in the steering swivel and better props.

PS wear your lifejacket, it saved my butt when I went out. Kept me up until help found me a half hour later.


Conrad

Adding. Power trim if you can get it will be the joy of your life:) The jack plate is not necessary. But trim is great. Right now Im guessing your cav plate is water skiing on the water behind the boat stabilizing it. Thats fine up to the mid 40's after that you need to be able to trim up and release that drag and let the air packing the front of the boat stabilize it. My boat does not stabilize on air unil 5o mph. But if your dragging your cav plate you will never get to that point.
Conrad

[milkdud]

Bernie, here is a pick of the 900 when I first got it. I ran it basically like this, minus the crappy aluminum prop. Also a pic of the crusty looking 1100 I ran. All my stuff is ugly, but runs :) I dont even have a pic of the 1250 it was a real mess :) But the 1250 was my first 99 cube motor :) much happiness.
Conrad

[milkdud]

Then this is what was what I ended up with today.
Conrad

[Powercat]

Ok, you guys caught my interest on the wedges issue... Can you tell if they were molded in to the hull or added later?
It looks like they were positioned to almost create a 4pt sponson arrangement with the ends of the front tunnel. I would
think they would let the aireated water from the tunnel compression spread out under the whole rear pad better creating lift
in the rear to conterbalance the front lift. Cool concept..
Danny Leger

[oldskier]

Danny, Yes they were factory as close as I could tell. The fact that Conrad had them too seems to confirm. If it was factory attempt at a four point it was a weak one. The wedges were about 8 inches wide, maybe 6 inches long and about 1/4" deep at the transom. I don't know how much air could move under the boat with a 1/4" lift. They were not in line with the front sponsons, they were somewhat inboard of them. If I were trying to get the back of the boat up off the water I would have made them much longer and at least an inch deep...but I SURE ain't no boat designer.

That said, Conrad says they do help overcome the porpoising on his boat. I put the Nauticus tabs on mine.

[Mark75H]

Mine are the same ... 1/4" or so and inboard of the front tunnel. Way too small for any kind of 4 point effect, only a slight hook effect for the trailing edge. I guess a full width hook was too much.

I'm going to build my own tabs.

[milkdud]

I made my tabs bigger. They are in the same place and same size except they are 1/2 inch tall now.

Just ran 73.8 MPH with it today GPS. Must be something right with it :) I also moved to center steer. Boat feels like its more stable in the straight away's . Dont turn worth a poop tho.

Conrad

[gtcontender]

Hey bernie,
Been inspired by your work as i start my contender....you have any pics with the seats in it?

[1954bmw]

I know it's been 8 plus years, but any chance you still have the pics and can repost em??? What did you end up doing with your contender??