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View Full Version : More on my 2.4 trouble....I lake tested.



Arizona Hotboater
04-22-2001, 11:36 PM
This is an excerpt from an e-mail I just sent to 10 or so people after lake testing my 200.

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Boat ran fine although I didnt do any top speed runs. I was just there to see if the plugs would color up....they didnt. I had 78 jet's in all but 2 & 5, which had 80's. The plugs wouldnt color much after idling out of the marina, running mid throttle, and then shutting it down clean from a full throttle run with the trim down. I have had a hunch that the jetting is just too rich for 1800' elevation so I took the radical approach. I swapped the 78's for 72's and the 80's to 76's. (I have no 74's) Per my manual, the stock wh22 carbs ran 72's and 74's. After the switch, the boat seemed to have slightly less power/punch and had a bog when the throttle was nailed. Not everytime, about 1/2 the time. Like a lean bog on a holley 4 barrel without an accellerator pump. I checked the plugs again. Same reading. 2 plugs have no color, 2 have a slight hint of reddish-brown, 2 had a more obvious reddish-brown but are still lacking normal coloration. I would think a drastic drop like that would alter the plug readings...nope.

I hit the choke enrichener under full throttle with both sets of jets. with 78's and 80's the rpm fell off when the enrichener was pushed. With 72's and 76's, the rpms fell only when I pushed the enrichener at mid throttle or less. At full throttle there was no drop. This leads me to believe the original jetting was more correct and now the mixture was lean. I ran full throttle, part throttle, and idled in to the marina. I pulled the plugs at home. All were stained black but 5 & 6 had light areas on the insulator. All the others had unifom black coloring from idling in. Also, while under full throttle, we noticed the volt meter pegged past 18 volts. Not everytime but most of the time.

This is really pissing me off. Could there be an electrical problem? I have checked everything with a fluke /DVA. I have done a compression test at least 5 times without grounding the plugs or pulling the kill switch. I didnt know I was supposed to. I did the electrical checks after doing that. It all checks out. Its not mechanical, and its not carbs. Maybe I should just put a new stator, trigger, switchboxes and rectifier on it and see what happens. Oh ya, I could see a couple of the piston domes when I pulled the plugs on the lake. They were black with specs of brown and are not melted from running the 72's / 76's. There is almost no carbon build-up.

This makes no sense. The photos show the plugs I used with the bigger jets. I switched to surface gaps for the smaller jets and the ride home. Note that for each bank there is 1 that is darkest (but still too light), one with a hint of color and one that has no color. I think it was 2 and 3 that were darkest, and the lightest were 5 & 6. 1 and 4 had just a hint of color. There is no water mist in the exhaust chest. I looked with a bend-a-lite. Motor idles, runs and revs fine. Just wont color the plugs and has been down in top speed by about 4-5 mph. Any ideas, guys?
Thanks,
Arizona slow-boater

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Note for those not familiar with my situation: A month ago I put 80's and 82's in the carbs and even held the enrichener in at WOT, and shut it down clean. The plugs didnt color up then either. It cant be lean and after today I know its not too rich.

DaveR
04-23-2001, 09:39 AM
You've hooked a good one - no doubt. It's hard to believe it hasn't been fixed yet with some of the high powered people on this board! I'm sorry, but all I can suggest is that you stop worrying about the plug color and switch to looking at the piston color. That's where the problem will show up. You may have been working this so long you can't stop and see the forrest for the trees. Good luck!

AlaskaStreamin
04-23-2001, 10:59 AM
Hey AZH,

Well I don't have any good pointers but I did learn something this weekend. The little ground wire from the coil to the cover plate gets corrosion inside the wire. Cut the end off one and strip back some of the insulation. If the wire is dark, it's bad. An ohm meter will show these as good because it doesn't pull a draw.

It sounds like your voltage regulator is ka-put. 18 volts seems a bit high to me.

If you think you may still have carb problems let me know. I have a complete set still on the intake with the airbox you can have. I don't know the WH ## at this time but can get it if you want them (free). They came off a '90 200 Mariner.

Did you ever swap the top and bottom carb?

You got a tough one buddy. Hang in there.

Arizona Hotboater
04-23-2001, 11:53 AM
Dave, I appreciate the comments. Your right. I have chased ghosts on things like this before. The piston color seems OK. I have never had plugs refuse to color. Hmmm

Ron, I appreciate the loan of the carbs. You are just too darn nice. I really dont think its carbs. I did swap the center and bottom carb with no change in performance. I've gone thru the carbs 3 times. Its got to be electrical. Greg Moss had a good point. He e-mailed me that if the flywheel is bad, it wont rev on top and may not color plugs. I intend to run with a 21" prop to see if it goes to 7500. Then, what I need is to swap flywheel, stator and boxes to test the elec system. Delta has a complete 40 amp system off of a 2.5 200, but mine is a 16 amp (I think). I still dont know if everything will change over onto my 2.4. My buddy here in town has a set of 2.4 carbs and intake I can borrow but I dont think the problem is there. His stator, boxes and flywheel are on his motor so thats kind of a pain for both of us to consider swapping. Also, I recal he had trouble getting over 6100 rpm last time he had it out. Who knows, his stator may be bad. I dont wanna put a used one on unless I know it to be good.

This is so bizzare! I wish I had bought that BP powerhead from your v-king. There is nothing wrong with my 2.4 mechanically. Its a tuning problem, gotta be in the electronics.

I'll keep you posted. Thanks,
Marc

jimmyb
04-23-2001, 01:32 PM
shoot me an email AZhotboater... I can try to help you trouble shoot it a bit...

I also have a complete wiring harness for a 2.4L 200 40 amp system (flywheel, stator, coils, switchboxes, advance and oil module, etc) that I could sell you...

or I have a complete 2.4L 200 powerhead for sale...

jim_barczak@mercmarine.com

AlaskaStreamin
04-23-2001, 03:13 PM
Marc,

I just got off the phone with a merc mechanic friend in Seattle and he thinks he has your cure. Are you ready for this??

OK, first your 18+ volts is very bad. A loose, or corroded battery cable / connection will put the regulator in full charge mode and will go up to 24 volts. A bad battery will do this also. Check this out and if fine change the regulator before you start up again or you could fry your electronics. (This is a bad thing) I had a friend who would lose his stator every year. It was due to a loose battery cable end. Go figure!!

AS far as your #5&6 plug color goes, he (Rich) says you may have a bad bias circuit in your switch boxes. This controls the timing for each cyl. Rich thinks you are advanced too much on these cyl's causing the color. If you index your flywheel, you can put a timing light on each wire and see what they're doing. He doesn't think you have a flywheel magnet problem. Also he asked the old question, " What did you touch last before the problem was noticed?" He also wanted to know if you did anything with your tuner / liner before this happened. Good luck!! Keep us posted.

LaveyT
04-23-2001, 04:50 PM
Hey Arizona,Ist the stator screws vibrated into the flywheel,then I broke a propshaft and lost a Spinnelli,Then I broke the Tail on my Midsection.I was still in the game then I went from mid 90's to low 80's.Plugs looked good ECU checked out,so i put in a new Rectifier and Stator.Still didnt get my rpm back.But I did notice hairline cracks in three magnets.Fast Eddie put a new flywheel on it and its turnen 9000RPM again!Its worth a look.Good luck

NPW
04-23-2001, 05:26 PM
az mine are just the opposite..1 3 5 color up black 2 4 6 are just the right shade of tan..1988 2.4 bridgeport EFI any thoughts...

Barney
04-23-2001, 05:55 PM
Go run that thing!

Arizona Hotboater
04-25-2001, 07:18 PM
Hey, thanks for the info. Heres the deal. I touched nothing before the trouble started. The battery connections are new and clean. I fully charged the battery before th last run and I disconnected the negative cable during charging. It was my understanding that i have no regulator, just a rectifier. (16 amp system) The timing is fine and untouched. (25*, I think) The bias cuircut was unhooked and i did a wot run...no change. I am going to swap fly wheels. I borrowed one and its easy. I also borrowed a 22" inline 6 chopper to see if itll spin over 7000 rpm or if it still only gets in the 6's. If these fail, I will just swap all electronics with brand new stuff. Its only money. I'll keep ya posted.
Thanks,
Marc