Somebody explain local stations claiming gas with NO ethynol?

[Raceman]

So if all this gas comes down a single pipeline from Texas to Georgia, how do some of the independents claim they get gas with NO ethynol in it. A local convenience store & marina has signs on his super unleaded pumps, both on the lake and at the store islands that say "our Super Unleaded does not contain ethynol", but they say their regular does.:confused:

I was led to believe that the gas comes to a distribution station where they fill tankers (two here actually) and that various brands added their additives at that point. So how do some get it with, and some supposedly without?

I'd like to NEVER run ethynol in my boats, old cars, lawnmower, chainsaw, weedeater, etc if it can be avoided. I've had more sorry runnin' stuff in the last year than all other years combined.

[Costa]

Yes it all does go down the same pipeline but the ethanol is blended with the gas while its being loaded on the trucks to take it to the stations. Same with the additives they are injected into the fuel as its being loaded. You are not going to be able to find non-ethanol blended gasoline for much longer, As of right now Exxon/Mobil, Chevron, and Shell all have ethanol blending at their loading facilities.

[jerry1865]

maybe i can help you just a bit for a change,lol.
i work in alot of refinerys. the stuff that comes down the pipe is crude. each refinery breaks down the crude to their own specs and then adds thier own additives as per the grade of the fuel product.
then they each load their tankers and send it out to their own fuel stations.

the area that i live in has one refinery that i hate to work in (because of poor safety)(the 2nd most unsafe refinery that ive ever worked in).

but thier fuel is all that i burn in my hp engines. so far since ive been running it ive been happy with thier non- oxygenated ,non-achohol,non-ethynol fuel. even tho it is pricey.

one side note tho. they are all playing fast and loose with the mix of fuels lately.
ive seen some drip gas that would burn better than the stuff they are putting out now.

[Raceman]

We've got 2 of what I'd call fueling stations, or storage facilities here.............HUGE tanks and bunches of big pipes comin' out of the ground. They have all different brands of tankers pulled in the same 2 yards daily. I know that the local Exxon and Standard distributor (one guy) owns one of the two storage facilities, but I've never paid much attention to what the tankers are labeled that come in and out of the other.

[Michael J Giesler]

hi i can help with this also my friend who i've know all my life owns a couple of gas stations in wi and he owns a citgo in lake geneva this is were the politcal bs comes in e-10 is suposed to be cleaner burning than real gas:icon_bs: bs citgo is pissed that he gets his premuim from another oil company but he loves boat and snowmobiles so his prem. is no e-10:thumbsup: but he is forced to run e-10 in his reg.:mad:

[cat06]

not too many at the dist will tell you or even know themselves, but they only have to tell you when gas has 10% ethanol added ( if less than 10% they don't have to report it). Just about all gas has some ethanol in it as mtbe was pretty much outlawed by the fed govt as an additive and ethanol is used in it's place

[michael_m]

I work in alot of refinarys as well and ethanol is a additive that is added on site normaly at the tank farm the trucking company adds fuel from diffrent tanks depending on what the customer orders.Most the pipeline are crude yes but they are also piping gas thur pipelines as well.Most of the chevrons over near mobile ala and miss still run 100% gas but they are slowly going to e-10 as well.Like they explained to us in a meeting at the chevron plant in pasgagula miss that 87 ocatane was 87 octane no matter what company makes it.Its the customer that decide weather the want to pay for the cleaner additives to be placed in the fuels or they choose to buy e-10 at a higher profit because of the cheaper cost due to the by products being placed in the gas to add volume for a lesser clean fuel

[Euro Muscle]

OK who does have the best 93o/t fuel stations now ??? ive been running shell

[baddjonny]

In new york all you have is e10 and race gas period since mtbe is outlawed I don't know if there is anything else thay can use that's safe. That's acording to the local sunoco gas station owner . Sunoco used to have 94 but since e10 93 is it was the best gas around here.
jon b

[Action Dave]

Around here you can buy recreational fuel at a lot of marinas. It is ethanol free and and is rated at 90 octane. Everything else, besides, race fuel, is e-10. No more than 10% ethanol. Well, there's also e-85 at a few stations but not every car is capable of running it. My dad has used it in his Dakota and he claims it to have more pep, but it gets worse milage.

[njj502]

I'm able to get 87 at several local stations thats ethanol free. I've been using it in my 2stroke stuff (lawn power equip & boat) all this year since I've had nothing but probs over the last year or so in my lawn equipment. I hope it helps.

[Mark75H]

In most areas the retailer can not CHOOSE whether to sell E-10, its generally by EPA mandate for certain areas. Basically all of Maryland is under EPA mandate to sell E-10 ... except for some areas in the mountains

Maryland is served by a large tank farm just off the harbor in Baltimore ... refreshed by tanker delivery of gas and ethanol shipped in by railroad tanker.


The food color test is the easiest way to see if you are getting ethanol or not

[Euro Muscle]

In most areas the retailer can not CHOOSE whether to sell E-10, its generally by EPA mandate for certain areas. Basically all of Maryland is under EPA mandate to sell E-10 ... except for some areas in the mountains

Maryland is served by a large tank farm just off the harbor in Baltimore ... refreshed by tanker delivery


The food color test is the easiest way to see if you are getting ethanol or not
How do you do the food color test !!! :confused:

[JR IN JAX]

The way I understand it is,, The Alcohol is too hygroscophic to inject into the pipelines and will cause corrosion damage in them. It is injected along with the Brand's additive package at the tanker-trucks. The End-vendor in Florida has a choice of either purchasing Ethanol as part of the package and get a $0.53 [per gal] govenment subsidy or get no subsidy at all. The pipeline/tank farm recieves another subsidy [about a dollar per gal]. They all choose to include ethanol in order to get the subsidies from the Government for ruining our engines.

[Mark75H]

Food coloring you buy in the baking/cake decorating section of the grocery store is water based and will not mix with regular gasoline. It will mix with ethanol. Add one tiny drop to a sample of gas in a clean clear container. If the food coloring disolves into the gas, it contains ethanol. If the drop of food coloring falls to the bottom as an intact droplet, there is no ethanol.

[mr.clean]

We have a station in town that's ethanol free :thumbsup: You can also use Sentry fuel additive. It stops ethanol from doing it's thing. I don't run a two stroke without it.

[Mark75H]

I'm sorry, there is no additive that can neutralize the ill effects of ethanol.

[delawarerick]

I'm sorry, there is no additive that can neutralize the ill effects of ethanol.
I agree been using this rec gas no ethanol and motor is running great. Rick

[Markus]

The way I understand it is,, The Alcohol is too hygroscophic to inject into the pipelines and will cause corrosion damage in them.

Too corrosive for pipelines, but you are forced to run it in your engine...

It takes more hydrocarbons to make a gallon of corn ethanol than a gallon of gasoline...

The farming lobby at its finest.

Someone ought to stop this madness.

[Mark75H]

Its ADM and Conagra ... probably the strongest lobby that there is. They never loose without a direct frontal attack.

They pretend to be part of the "little guy" farming interest, but in fact they are part of corporate/Wall Street and have little or nothing in common with the ordinary farmer trying to make a living and feed their family

[njj502]

That right there is no joke. Nothing but a bunch of Wall ST mo fo's getting their fingers in everything!!!

[JR IN JAX]

I'm sorry, there is no additive that can neutralize the ill effects of ethanol.

110% RIGHT. Almost every additive I know of adds more alcohol to the mix....

[mr.clean]

I'm sorry, there is no additive that can neutralize the ill effects of ethanol.


I'm no chemist but Sentry claims that it Inhibits Ethanol Phase Separation. We have been using it for a while with great results. We have a lot of smart people here on S&F and I'd be interested to hear any info you or anyone else has on the Sentry product.

[Markus]

I'm no chemist but Sentry claims that it Inhibits Ethanol Phase Separation. We have been using it for a while with great results. We have a lot of smart people here on S&F and I'd be interested to hear any info you or anyone else has on the Sentry product.

It may inhibit phase separation, but it does not inhibit corrosion, which is the big problem with ethanol in fuels.

[JR IN JAX]

I'm no chemist but Sentry claims that it Inhibits Ethanol Phase Separation. We have been using it for a while with great results. We have a lot of smart people here on S&F and I'd be interested to hear any info you or anyone else has on the Sentry product.The Sentry and other additives add more alcohol to absorb the water and keep it in suspension [no phase seperation]. The alcohol does the materials damage just not the water. AVGAS is your best best for winter layover and it makes your boat smell good too [I love that smell better than perfume].

[Mark75H]

Exactly ... phase separation is a function of water content to alcohol ... add more alcohol and you are less likely to have phase separation but more likely to have corrosion and hose deterioration

[WATERWINGS]

There is one place here in town that still sells 100% High Test, and it cost just a little bit more, but not much;

I test my fuel so I know its true.

One day they were out of Super, and the place I normally go tested to only about 7% where normally it was 10%.

There are two stations on the other side of town that say 100% gas, but its NOT Super.

I use Startron, it has no alcohol and is supposed to stop phase separation.

I had to go buy all new valves and seats for the carbs, cause when they first switched to E10 around here, my rubber tipped needle valves were sticking to the seats......$100 later, I have new ones, and they are steel tipped.

Here is the tester I use.....you can get them at mower shops.

[Mark75H]

I tried every mower shop in my area to find that kind of thing ... none to be had. Ended up buying some test tubes and making my own for about $2 a piece.

[WATERWINGS]

They had to order mine for me.

[Unchained]

It's always a good laugh going on this website once a month or so just to see you outboard guys STILL carrying on about ethanol. :D

Does anyone here think for themselves or is it just follow the crowd ?

So let me tally up my ethanol related problems again after running it exclusively for three seasons,

...........................Still 0


Actually it has dissolved all the hoses (and stainless fittings) in two and when the ethanol got to the bilge it rotted the bilge plugs through and dissolved the concrete under the boat in the garage. It also dissolved the tires on the boat trailer.
All this happened just overnight too.
Then there was spontaneous combustion and my house and all the others nearby went up in flames.
ALL BECAUSE OF ETHANOL.................... LMAO

[Mark75H]

There seem to be dramatically fewer problems with it in the mid west. ALL other areas are suffering. I suspect it is something in the local gas formulas that gives this consistent result.

[delawarerick]

Waterwings its not 93 octane but rec gas is an honest 90 I trust it over e10. We now have a new place on the water down here that has 93 no ethonol but I have not seen it and don't know the price. I paid 3.83 a gallon for 90 about 2 weeks ago. Rick

[WATERWINGS]

[QUOTE=Unchained;2029349]

So let me tally up my ethanol related problems again after running it exclusively for three seasons,

...........................Still 0


It could have cost me a motor, but I found the problem in time.

I had to replace all my needle valves and seats in the carbs, ($100), they were rubber tipped and the ethanol was making them stick closed, and no fuel was getting into the carbs......(3 clys were getting fuel/ lubrication, and 3 were not)....so yes, ethanol could have killed my motor.

The new ones are steel tipped instead of rubber......so somebody at Mercury found this to be a problem too.

[Unchained]

There seem to be dramatically fewer problems with it in the mid west. ALL other areas are suffering. I suspect it is something in the local gas formulas that gives this consistent result.

Now does that statement make common sense ?

Enough bashing from me for a while but what you guys are missing is,
*More HP than gas
*The octane (105) is more than enough for the highest cylinder pressure you could possibly put to a two cycle
*Lower EGT's
*A fraction of the price of race gas.

I would have thought that the outboard racers would have been all over this.
Maybe it is a major problem retuning the factory ECU ?
Does anyone use aftermarket ECU's on outboards that are laptop tunable ?

[1BadAction]

It's always a good laugh going on this website once a month or so just to see you outboard guys STILL carrying on about ethanol. :D

Does anyone here think for themselves or is it just follow the crowd ?

So let me tally up my ethanol related problems again after running it exclusively for three seasons,

...........................Still 0


Actually it has dissolved all the hoses (and stainless fittings) in two and when the ethanol got to the bilge it rotted the bilge plugs through and dissolved the concrete under the boat in the garage. It also dissolved the tires on the boat trailer.
All this happened just overnight too.
Then there was spontaneous combustion and my house and all the others nearby went up in flames.
ALL BECAUSE OF ETHANOL.................... LMAO


its off the charts

http://a.imageshack.us/img827/3138/sarcasmdetector.jpg

can't say I disagree though, car guys love e85, especially turbo car guys.

[jdinny]

I haven't been able to find ethenol free gas where I live, but upstate where we snowmobile, there are ethanol free gas stations for the sleds. 93 octane too. I need to buy a tanker, LOL

[Mark75H]

Now does that statement make common sense ?

Enough bashing from me for a while but what you guys are missing is,
*More HP than gas
*The octane (105) is more than enough for the highest cylinder pressure you could possibly put to a two cycle
*Lower EGT's
*A fraction of the price of race gas.

I would have thought that the outboard racers would have been all over this.
Maybe it is a major problem retuning the factory ECU ?
Does anyone use aftermarket ECU's on outboards that are laptop tunable ?

You are talking apples and oranges ... you are the only one talking about running straight ethanol. I've never bashed ethanol ... until now. The main problem with it is ... there are only a few locations where the price is less than gasoline. Transportation kills your "A fraction of the price of gas"

Secondly ... there are no ethanol docks where you can pull up and refuel ... that completely limits you to running within sight of your refuel tank at home or in the back of your pick up truck at the ramp.

Yeah, there are jet and nozzle issues with tuning. Jump thru the right hoops with changing stuff and you can use it. Where racing rules allow ... methanol produces even more power and racers do use it

Until this post, I don't think anyone understood you were talking about running straight ethanol. Deliver it to me in MD for $2 a gallon around the corner from me whether I buy 2 gallons or 200 and I'll gladly set up my motors to run on it.

[Ron V]

These threads are totally freaking awesome.

[Markus]

Enough bashing from me for a while but what you guys are missing is,
*More HP than gas
*The octane (105) is more than enough for the highest cylinder pressure you could possibly put to a two cycle
*Lower EGT's
*A fraction of the price of race gas.

I would have thought that the outboard racers would have been all over this.
Maybe it is a major problem retuning the factory ECU ?
Does anyone use aftermarket ECU's on outboards that are laptop tunable ?

Some people in the Mid West are supposedly running E85 with great results. If you have easy access to low-cost E85 and build your engine (porting, compression, sufficient fuel delivery) and fuel system (as stated earlier in the thread, pipeline owners do not allow it to pass through their pipeline because it is reactive) for it you should be in for a lot of fun.

With a stock outboard and fuel system, there is no upside to E10, only problems.

[Unchained]

It appears to me that those on this site with the biggest complaints on ethanol are running old carbureted systems.
All the outboard guys I hang with here in Mi have EFI systems.
I've never heard them complain about problems with 10% ethanol mix but I've never seen anyone step up to E85 which is easily available.

Some of them run race gas at $ 6. / gal +
E85 at the pump is $ 2.29 gal.

It would take larger injectors or a retune of the ECU for the 30% additional fuel volume to run E85.

[Mark75H]

It appears to me that those on this site with the biggest complaints on ethanol are running old carbureted systems.
All the outboard guys I hang with here in Mi have EFI systems.
I've never heard them complain about problems with 10% ethanol mix but I've never seen anyone step up to E85 which is easily available.

Some of them run race gas at $ 6. / gal +
E85 at the pump is $ 2.29 gal.

It would take larger injectors or a retune of the ECU for the 30% additional fuel volume to run E85.

Agreed. If you look into it deeper, even guys with carb motors have less trouble with E-10 in your area.

[njj502]

I've had nothing but problems here in corn country with all my 2stroke stuff. Had pretty much all the carbs off (mowers, boat motors, chainsaws, etc) with in the last year. All had corrosion due to the ethanol even though my fuel doesn't sit. I just quit using it, have found several stations offering 87 w/out it and I don't need the high octane. Also, around here, im sure the content is higher than advertised 10%. I'm suprised no-one has mentioned how lean of a charge this can cause and we all know the 2strokes don't live lean. I'd love to get a tester for the Casey's and Huck's Stations.

[JR IN JAX]

My Merc's Promax's ethanol-ready EFI cost me $1500 last year and I finally found out the biggest problem was my VST's high pressure hose was dissolving due to ethanol and blocking my injector screens.

[Markus]

We had to replace the injectors in my brother's Infiniti Q45 due to California mandated E10 gasoline. That was a good week-end of work and a bunch of money for the injectors.

[Mark75H]

Its ADM and Conagra ... probably the strongest lobby that there is. They never loose without a direct frontal attack.

They pretend to be part of the "little guy" farming interest, but in fact they are part of corporate/Wall Street and have little or nothing in common with the ordinary farmer trying to make a living and feed their family

Forgot Cargill as the third head on that beast