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Powercat
10-24-2002, 05:37 PM
Jeff Buckley posted these photos of a Swizer wing he just aquired and plans to restore. Looks like an excellent start !!
Danny Leger

Powercat
10-24-2002, 05:38 PM
No. 2

crazy horse
10-24-2002, 06:43 PM
GREAT FIND!!!!! Now all you will need is nice set of inlines. Or as a buddy of mine call the one I have, THE ALL METAL MOTOR!

Flat Out
10-24-2002, 07:04 PM
It's even a first gen model with the round top cowls. Any history on the boat. Perhaps some of the racers can help. Would love to see it run some day. What are his plans as far as restoring it go?

Raceman
10-24-2002, 07:50 PM
Unbelievable. I hope he'll post pictures as it progresses.

Bruster
10-24-2002, 08:50 PM
opt for a pair of 1500 XS motors. hard to belive huh?
In fact I think there is a wing out there somewhere with XS power. Any one know of that?

Powercat
10-24-2002, 09:37 PM
Fwd: Text by Jeff Buckley
"Much to my surprise and unknowing, the fastest Switzer Flying Wing landed in South Carolina last week from a low flight from a warehouse in California. After numerous phone calls and directory inquiries....it has been confirmed/reconfirmed/double-checked, etc: I just acquired Kenny Kitson's multi-record holding Switzer Flying Wing "Miss Diablo 3". It was configured with twins and triples....depending upon which record it was attempting to break at the time....This boat was acquired from Mr. Keikhaefer along with multi-promises of technical and factory assistance of which he did recieve....

Attached are photos....yes, it will be restored to it's previous grandeur...with duals and not triples. (it set more records with duals)"

"Dave Craig ran 120+ with a pair of 125hsp Stackers in 1963

According to Kenny, 120+ is easily achievable in an 18' Wing of which he did many times over in this boat tha I just acquired...The NOA Unlimited Class IV(dual engines) was set at an average speed of 113.208 by him and the Unlimited Class VI(three engines) was set at and average109.756. To talk to this guy is an absolute hoot thus far!!

I've also been talking to Jimbo McConnell, one of outboard racings old greats and he also is a real character over the phone....

My plan is a pair of either 115, 135, or 150 Stackers(probably 135's) with a pair of full shift lowers...The intermediates and lowers are yet to be determined....Mr. Kitson stated to me that the boat ran lousy with BP lowers...

Lots of pictures will follow of the transformation...the original screw holes where he mounted the supports for the center third engine are still there(though to be faired and covered up).

Another piece of racing/perfomance history found to be preserved!!"

eautosales
10-24-2002, 09:49 PM
cant wait ta see the finished product

but a pair of 1500xs motas on the back would be bad ta the bone:p

Flat Out
10-25-2002, 07:57 AM
It would be great to the Wing run when the restoration is completed. It would be truly amazing to see it match its record speed with correct vintage power. Keep us posted. I'm very interested. Thats got to be one of the COOOOLEST race boats of all time.
Raceman , now how about that Kitson with the twin stackers ?

Mark75H
10-25-2002, 03:29 PM
Rich Luhrs has also recently acquired a Switzer Wing and begun restoration! His is a newer one.

Is Jeff going to restore his boat to how it looked when Kitson raced it? That would be very cool considering the fact that it exists famously in several Champion Spark Plug ads and magazine articles!

Laker
10-25-2002, 04:16 PM
Oh MAN! You have to be KIDDING ME!!
This is EXCELECT!!!!! How Exciting!!
Those will be TOP billing in exhibitions all over the country!!
I Can NOT Wait to see one in person! :D :D

Mark75H
10-25-2002, 05:22 PM
Rich Luhrs' Wing (no he is not keeping the Tiger paint job)

Mark75H
10-25-2002, 05:23 PM
wing bottom....

Mark75H
10-25-2002, 05:33 PM
If you want to see Rich's finished job, plan on attending the 2004 Antique Raceboat Regatta at Clayton, NY (Thousand Islands area...yes, as in the salad dressing) on the St Lawrence

I hope to be there too, hopefully with a full race version of the 75H vs the over polished show motors. I may also bring a McCulloch racer and a Merc 700 with Speedmaster to compare to the 75H's as well.

They usually try to have Miss Atlas Van Lines Unlimited fired up for some hop laps on their course, too. Compared to the Merlins and Griffons you can tell why the Germans called the Allison equipped P-51's "Whispering Death"

PS: Rich is trying to fish out a pair of 70-ish Merc racers to hang on the back of his Wing......any help would be greatly appreciated:)

Mark75H
10-25-2002, 06:04 PM
Darren Luhrs website Wing restoration page (http://www.darrensoffshorephotos.homestead.com/thewing.html)

Carlson150XS
10-26-2002, 09:04 AM
SAm-
went to the Race Boat meet in Clayton 4 years ago-it was great-and in a beautiful area.
The problem as I see it is there is no respect paid by that group
to fiberglass boats. Yes I know it's a wooden boat show but it needs to be opened to old fiberglass-Once you get past Glasspar G3's they act like boating stopped.
I also attended the old boat show in St. Michaels Md. last two years-
Have a 57 Trogan Sea Queen Special and a 71 Carlson Challenger
w a 1500xs. They sald I could display the
Wooden Sea Queen but not the Carlson.
Sorry to take you through this-but feel the need to get it off my chest-
Jim

gemini
10-27-2002, 04:45 PM
You will need a red metalflake( to match the boat) 1965 Chevy Impala like Kitson used to pull his boat. I think I have black and white photos of this rig at the 1965 NOA nationals in Denison Texas.

Mark75H
10-27-2002, 07:11 PM
Was it dark red metal flake? It sure looks black in pictures.

gemini
10-27-2002, 07:58 PM
He had more than one Wing over the years. The black "El Diablo" T-119( I think) was the most famous. Seems like it ran 1970-72. You needed sun glasses to be near the red 1965-6 Chevy/Switzer combo he showed up with at the 1966 NOA Natls. Wish my photos were in color,probably couldn't afford it at the time.

Backfire
10-27-2002, 09:34 PM
He ran the black El Diablo in the 1969 Havasu race . He lead for a good while until he blew a lower unit right in front of the judges stand on the point. I was filming him at the time it blew. Gotta get that 8mm on CD. The noise of 2-300 stackers and the smoke of 20 to1 oil, what a 4 hour blast-two days of it!
Backfire ;)

Mark75H
10-27-2002, 10:10 PM
Yes, he won in 1968 with the same black "Miss Diablo"

In 1968 the stackers claimed 155hp each.

Here's the picture that was posted here on Scream and Fly some time back, I believe by Ron Hill

Mark75H
10-27-2002, 10:18 PM
If anyone has pictures of an earlier T-119, black and white, purple, green or otherwise, please scan them and share them with us! I'm sure Claude Fox has pictures from that race, but I have not yet been able to find the time to visit him and scan his photo albums.

gemini
10-28-2002, 12:11 AM
No Kitson and the red chevy yet but how about the Lake Winnebago Marathon winner in 1967 or so, Jack Strassweg in the U-711

brianT2
10-28-2002, 12:32 AM
another wing

gemini
10-28-2002, 12:41 AM
Note the rare center steering in the U-711. Any of those still around?

skiffnbuck
10-29-2002, 10:01 AM
It's nice to find such interest in some of the old record setters, especially the Flying Wings....

To clarify a few things....

1) Kenny had four(4) Switzer Flying Wings....#1 and #2 were both Red Metal Flake with White accents....Boats ran good, but not great....#1 was crashed miserably and went to Eddie Erhding(sp?). #2 was sold, but Kenny can't remember to whom at this time.....#3 was a lightened hull(980 lbs vs 1200# on the other boats) that Mr Kieckhaefer gave him to campaign with/modify/rig, etc....This boat, Miss Diablo 3 was the one that he set all his records in, won the World Championship with, etc.....A LOT OF HISTORY WITH THIS BOAT....It was rigged with twins and triples depending upon the record he was attempting to break...

#4 and #5 Miss Dablo's were KitsonCraft tunnels that were too heavy and not as competitive as he would have liked.

#6 Miss Diablo was also a black Switzer that ran good but couldn't measure up to the old #3....

He's really excited about assisting in this old research and history documentation and is avidly digging out the old pictures and files... There'll be more to share with you all as it comes around.

2) The Boat will be restored back with twin 135's with Stacks and SuperSpeedmasters....Most of which is already on the shelf awaiting polishing/painting, etc...

3)Any of you old-timers who want to share photos/videos/old stories: I'm ALL EARS.....Richie, Darren, and myself are avidly undertaking these respective projects with a lot of energy and look foward to sharing it with you all. Any expense for photocopying, etc....is my espense!! I want really good documentation

4)I find these craft all over the country when/where I least expect it.....If you desire something in particular, let me know... Example: I found the Tiger Wing(The Luhrs' Family's) through mulitple phone calls and such from Minnesota to Texas...The Diablo 3 boat was found in a warehouse in California through a magazine ad and a bunch of letters....The American Marc Catamarine I just sold to New York was found in the woods of Vermont.....

5)Call anytime: Jeff Buckley, 803/980-3300

BK
10-29-2002, 01:24 PM
Jeff,

Though I was only about 9 years old at the time, I clearly remember "El Diablo" at the Havasu Classic around 70-71 ish.

And I do have pictures (even in color!) of several Switzers of that time period. These are photos (Slides) my brother took at the 1970 Havasu Classic.

I actually have an old 8mm film of the 1970 Havasu Classic -- AND the 1970 or 71 Parker Enduro too!!! I have a grainy clip of the start of both races, plus a few seconds of film of the pit area. They aren't the best quality, but I once made them into VHS videos in the 1980's, but have no idea where those tapes went. (They are around somewhere, but possibly still in AZ at my mother's house)

Let me know where the black "El Diablo" fits into Kenny Kitson's biography above. I don't recall a lot from those days, but I do remember that boat clearly.

Powercat
11-04-2002, 07:28 PM
Well through this thread and Jeff's contact with Ken Kitson he emailed me telling me that prior to his racing the Switzer's he also raced several Powercats both bubble cats and hydros and
said he set his first 3-motor record in a Powercat 4pt hydro. I have asked him for some more but was wondering if anyone in this group has some information relating to that period. Pictures would be great.
Danny Leger
Austin, Texas

gemini
11-04-2002, 07:51 PM
Bob Holiday and Maurice Doak(the UT football player) owned "The Boat Shop" in Austin circa 1964-67. They had a 4 point and a Bubble Cat(Bob broke his leg in it) The 4 points were marathon boats and fairly rare even then. I would like to have one but haven't seen any. The Hydros are still around, two in the Austin area. I assume you are related to Ray Leger. I use to go to the Victoria plant in the 60's and see him when I was racing single engine marathon classes. I guess all the old molds are long gone.

Raceman
11-05-2002, 04:06 AM
It'd be neat if one of you guys with the contact could get Kenny Kitson to come around here and play with us.

skiffnbuck
11-05-2002, 06:56 AM
I spoke to Kenny yesterday and am in the process of getting his "training wheels" installed and him educated to the use and reading of the forums....You should see posts from him very soon....

Raceman
11-05-2002, 07:38 AM
Skiff, while you're at it, get him a scanner and show him how to post pictures. We want to see his old pictures.........lots of em.

LakeRacer99
11-05-2002, 11:59 AM
Hey Buck: When you guys got him to post on the Glassics site, I sent him an email inviting him to the vintage racing forumns over here on S&F. I am sure there is alot of interesting information here he might enjoy.

Jason

AnthonySS
11-05-2002, 01:01 PM
...guys...

Thanks a ton for sharing this valuable stuff with us "Younger Guys";)

That's one boat that you can actually use the word ugly;) and cool in the same sentence.

I would have liked to see the look on everyone's face when that thing showed up at its 1st race!

...Probably similar to 1st time some of us saw a STV Euro

Powercat
11-05-2002, 06:59 PM
Gemini:
Ray Leger was my Dad. The molds were lost in the fire
that destroyed the plant in 1966. Including both the 4pt and
3pt hydro. Powercat at that point had allready started to phase
out of racing so these were not re-built. I am trying to find out about the 3pt molds that were still in the CeeBee Mfg plant and sold as Avenger. There is the possibility that they could still be there in California. I have talked to one 3pt owner from Austin, and he has told me of another that is around here somewhere.
I have tracked down 7 of the 3pts so far but not a single one of
the 4pts have turned up.
Danny Leger


Originally posted by gemini
Bob Holiday and Maurice Doak(the UT football player) owned "The Boat Shop" in Austin circa 1964-67. They had a 4 point and a Bubble Cat(Bob broke his leg in it) The 4 points were marathon boats and fairly rare even then. I would like to have one but haven't seen any. The Hydros are still around, two in the Austin area. I assume you are related to Ray Leger. I use to go to the Victoria plant in the 60's and see him when I was racing single engine marathon classes. I guess all the old molds are long gone.

Powercat
10-04-2003, 04:24 PM
So Rich & Jeff ???
Is the match race still on for Clayton 2004 ???
Not sure if I will have my cat ready to come out and "play" but I would not miss out on seeing the Wing's battle it out once again ( even if is just for fun ) :D :D :D

Danny Leger

T2x
10-06-2003, 08:24 AM
It's on from this end.......................... Our Wing is almost structurally complete....next comes the painting.

T2x

clampon
10-06-2003, 04:25 PM
for the 2004 race wing and the powercat can i enter my 3point that will be ready for the auto show in jan 2004 in the austin area i hope it will run low to mid 80s.i have not ran it in 10 years but it felt like it ran down hill when the tail lifted. thanks clampon

Powercat
10-06-2003, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by clampon
For the 2004 race, Wing and the Powercat!! Can I enter my 3point that will be ready for the auto show in Jan 2004 in the Austin area? I hope it will run low to mid 80s. I have not run it in 10 years but it felt like it ran down hill when the tail lifted.
Thanks
clampon
For sure!!, the Clayton New York Raceboat Regatta is in August of 2004...
Would be great to have your 3pt there....
Now if Beaver gets his ready, and I can talk the guy from Chicago into bringing his we would almost have a full class of 1960's OPC boats !! Switzer Wings - Powercat Cats and Hydros - couple of Mollinari's, heck we need a couple of Glastron V-bottoms running twins or triples to fill it out !! Sounds like my kind of party !!
Danny Leger
......
Antique Raceboat Web Page (http://www.abm.org/calendar/raceboat_regatta.htm) :D

T2x
10-07-2003, 08:25 AM
Just an FYI....... following old tried and true outboard tradition......

I fully intend to cheat;)

T2x

clampon
10-07-2003, 08:37 AM
at the antique show how far is it from texas. i saw some pictures on a cable show a couple of years ago and old wood boats and saw a 44stacker on a runabout and it was shrill. will the classic race be a short course to give the cat the advantage it will need also i am in favor of a bank start and last but not least are you ready a one pin turn.ok i am dreaming give me a few details know matter how it is run it will be a treat.thanks clampon

T2x
10-17-2003, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by clampon
at the antique show how far is it from texas. i saw some pictures on a cable show a couple of years ago and old wood boats and saw a 44stacker on a runabout and it was shrill. will the classic race be a short course to give the cat the advantage it will need also i am in favor of a bank start and last but not least are you ready a one pin turn.ok i am dreaming give me a few details know matter how it is run it will be a treat.thanks clampon

The "course" at Clayton is about 1/3rd of a mile around...and the turns are approximately half of the total distance..... They are fairly wide...given the tiny course size. It is designed so that old farts in some pretty fast old boats...can't get moving at lethal speeds. Some die hards, however, (the Unlimited Hydro guys) go "outside the spectator fleet and then roar through the middle at ground shaking (though not flat out) speeds.

It'll be a blast........... but, I'll still cheat.;) ;) ;)

T2x

Powercat
10-18-2003, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by clampon
at the antique show how far is it from texas. ok i am dreaming give me a few details know matter how it is run it will be a treat.thanks clampon
Meatball:
It's a tough two day drive, probably drive 10 hours stop for the night and another 8-10 hours on in.. Especially towing a boat.
Danny Leger

Clams Canino
10-19-2003, 06:06 PM
Sam what became of those 2 1000 BP's? They looked like pretty good specimins??

70's power would be nice, but I bet those 2 old timers would push it well too.

-W




Originally posted by Mark75H

PS: Rich is trying to fish out a pair of 70-ish Merc racers to hang on the back of his Wing......any help would be greatly appreciated:) [/B]

T2x
10-20-2003, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by Ratbo
Sam what became of those 2 1000 BP's? They looked like pretty good specimins??

70's power would be nice, but I bet those 2 old timers would push it well too.

-W

Those engines are NOT BP's..... They are mismatched long shaft stock 150's with some silly BP letters on the cowls.

T2x

Powercat
11-11-2003, 10:27 AM
This is supposed to be a troop transport vehicle the Russians
developed in the mid 60's it would ride the cushion of air just
above the water surface and once the thrust got it to speed...
300mph... it could cut back on power and maintain at that with
tons of cargo and troups... It only has enough wing surface to
create the air cushion not lift for true flight.... Same concept as
the Switzer Wings and modern tunnels... Pack'n Air !!

HANS O LUEDTKE
11-13-2003, 01:17 AM
they crashed it in 79 I think?

T2x
02-22-2005, 04:04 PM
Prologue.........

Before

T2x
02-22-2005, 04:05 PM
Prologue........After

76baja18ft
02-23-2005, 02:45 AM
that looks fantastic... i am sure thats many hours of blood sweat and tears.. awesome job done

Clams Canino
03-02-2005, 05:09 PM
WOW!!

Have you had it in the water yet? What's it getting with a pair of 1350's?

-W

T2x
03-02-2005, 08:25 PM
WOW!!

Have you had it in the water yet? What's it getting with a pair of 1350's?

-W

The last report is the Diablo is running close to 100 without any real set up or effort.......

Just wait until Kitson gets after it............. :) :)

The MAN can flat dive that "thang"......

T2x

outboard bob
03-02-2005, 09:03 PM
Still trying to get the rest of my Stack parts Rich. I had to send the guy a not so nice letter that has my exhaust mounting plates and promised them to me for over a year and a half (what a shame) since i already own them. The Simbergers are going to finish the carbs possibly this week and that should be it until i get the Stack parts. Bob

Mark75H
03-02-2005, 09:28 PM
Ask Kenny what this guy was doing in the winter of 63-64 at Miami :D

T2x
03-03-2005, 01:18 PM
Still trying to get the rest of my Stack parts Rich. I had to send the guy a not so nice letter that has my exhaust mounting plates and promised them to me for over a year and a half (what a shame) since i already own them. The Simbergers are going to finish the carbs possibly this week and that should be it until i get the Stack parts. Bob

I spoke to Ken this morning.......

FYI...... I am sending the two in line powerheads to him today.

T2x

outboard bob
03-09-2005, 03:13 PM
Rich -- Thank you.

T2x
03-09-2005, 09:15 PM
Rich -- Thank you.


y'welcome........

T2x

TomAprilsswitzers
10-03-2005, 12:28 AM
The Miss Diablo III is powered by Twin 135XS's

outboard bob
10-03-2005, 08:59 PM
The engines on the boat are 1970 1350 powerheads with 1250 super B P tower housings and the factory adapter plates that permit us to run the twin pinion counter rotating super speedmasters .Bob

outboard bob
10-12-2005, 06:25 PM
I think SHERLOCK is going to stick a couple of big old JOHNSONS on his.

Bruster
10-12-2005, 09:22 PM
The engines on the boat are 1970 1350 powerheads with 1250 super B P tower housings and the factory adapter plates that permit us to run the twin pinion counter rotating super speedmasters .Bob

Bob,
Did I hear you had some issues with using the 1350 powerheads on the 1250 SBP Mids. Something about water discharge. Do you have any kind of tuner or adapter under the motor? or does the powerhead simply bolt over that very large hole in the mid? I'm fixing to finish this same combination and I would like to learn from someone who has been there. I just hate taking something apart twice. :eek:

lynn simburger
10-12-2005, 09:48 PM
i repaired bob's bp midsection, his starboard engine did not have the water exit passage machined into the midsection. i'm guessing was orginally on a stacker, were the water was discharged from the side of the exhaust divider plate on powerhead.the water could not get out of the engine,so it would not cool and brook the side ptate.

outboard bob
10-12-2005, 10:02 PM
I purchased some parts from Mercury when they were cleaning out years ago through a friend of mine. the BP tower housing had not been drilled out for water passage as they must have used Stacks and i didn't notice this. Just make sure yours is or you will blow the side plate off the engine when it shuts down and the water hits it. I never have seen this before and could not figure what happened, just a big bang and lots of steam.

Up until the 1350 engine will the inline 6 fit on this tower housing, after that Nothing will bolt up.

The tower housing has no tuned pipe, just bolt the engine on.

At first I left the short tuned pipe on the stock tower housings and the engines would not fire in the water only on the trailer. I found out later on that they had to cut this off also when the 1 to 1 speed masters were used or the engines would not fire due to the back pressure from the water in the tuned pipe. You dont have that problem with the BP housings. Bob

outboard bob
10-12-2005, 10:33 PM
Hi Lynn Thanks for taking care of the Wing. Bring the wing to the banquit again or whatever you want. When we get the Stack parts on the thing it will probably scare the hell out of someone that has never heard that before.
I was writing the post and did not see yours until i finished Bob

lynn simburger
10-13-2005, 12:47 PM
The champ banquit at different hotel in St. Louis this year,don't know if wing can go yet. Talked to Ken the other day he said you guys may go "shopping" in Fla. Oh, by the way dad and I were talking about engine cowls the other day and he reminded me of a wing story that I havn't read on S&F one never recovered from the bottom of Miss. river here at Alton, Il. call me I hate to type.