557 Ford build

[455maveric]

Hi i will be puting together a 557 ford for a friend. it will be in his Rochell craft and just wondering about a good hydraulic cam for it. he realy dosent need to run above 5500 rpm the pump is a jucuzzie YJ i think he is gona go look at some cobra jet heads. i am just trying to get him a honest 500 HP

[455maveric]

211475i sure would like my friend to buy a set of these Boss heads there made to fit the stock 429/460 wedge block. web site
http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com/component/content/article/40-kaase-products/219-kaase-boss-nine-semi-hemisperical-big-block-ford-cylinder-heads.html211474

[albypine]

to bad you were not doing an old FE i still have some parts kicking around,that i will be selling soon. good luck with the build,have to see whats left in the parts room, we did have some 460/429 stuff to,but been many years since we played with the big blocks......alby

[boatermike]

i did a 460 .060 over once . crane special purpose number 3 was awesome in mine. lift was .699 i think. i wish i had a bbf in my boat

[455maveric]

ya i have an olds right now and it's my budy boat i am building the ford for but he is gona give me a BBF. He is going with stock head or some cobra jet heads the block is bored 80 over 4.440 and the crank is 4.5 stroke to make 557 CI

[boatermike]

sweet!

[TIMINATOR]

Problem with the 557 is that with the needed dish to make less than 10 to 1 compression, there is not enough room for the required rod length. With cash anything is possible, but I sense that this is a budget deal. Might want to check into this before going any farther. TIMINATOR

[boatermike]

paw has a huge ford kit

[455maveric]

Well He got the kit a while back and it uses a 6.700 rod and a set of probe dish pistons if i remember it use's BBC rod bearings

[TIMINATOR]

C/R depends on the dish size and head CCs. TIMINATOR

[Mr.Rude]

go with Kaase P51 head. Best out of the box head.

[455maveric]

ya i wish he would buy a set of those heads but he wont spend that much on the heads so what ya gona do still waiting to see if he brought the rods over to the machine shop to have the pin end honed a bit they where to tight for my likeing the pin was not realy free on the floating rods i told him to get them so they had 3/4 of a thousands clearance

[Mr.Rude]

There really is no reason to go that big in cubes if you didnt plan to get heads the can feed it. It will be very asthmatic IMHO. I would have saved on the stroker and got a great set of heads and made a proper cam choice.

[gringo]

Seriously and with some respect ,put the whole lot in the scrap bin and start again with a BBC .... More of everything with less $ and way more class. Even over here in Australia where everything is expensive we only use ford anything for people movers or trucks. Every time some one gets the idea of a hot rod ford it usually blows up when ya lean on it.

[Mr.Rude]

The only reason to run BBC is cost. The BBF is superior in strength as far as design. I have seen far to many in boats, drag cars, and pull truck applications to warrant anything different. Factory block, rods, crank can handle 750 NA horsepower under serious torture for life... been there, done that. No BBC can ever use factory parts and make the same claim. We had P51 heads and .030" pistons to match them on an otherwise factory 460 rotating assembly make over 700hp. How many head, cam, intake swaps have you seen where a BBC can do this?

Also, with all do respect, MORE CLASS??? What does that even mean? Whats not classy about being different? BBC are like fleas, every dogs got em'!

[boatermike]

loco gringo es stupido

[rowdy1]

An EDLEBROCK RPM cam works great for a motor like that. Has a little bit of a lumpy idle, shouldnt be that bad with that many cubes. I think it is about a .565 / .588 lift. ( it been a while since ive messed with it) If he can afford it, the stock hyd. roller set up they put in the SVO crate motors is a killer cam. If memory serves me it is about a .627 lift, maybe a little more, but the ramp profiles w/ a roller cam are way more aggressive. Also a 950 Holley carb should be the minimum with that many cubes. What intake are you going to use? I have tried them all, Weiand Stealth is by far the best all around intake.

[Still Crazy]

Mr Rude has made some excellent points. The Ford was hampered in the 70's by its lousy exhaust port and a relative shortage of 4 bolt main blocks, which made BBC's so popular and cheaper to build. In those days they could typically out power the Ford $ per $ spent. Since better heads and intakes have been introduced by TFS, Ford Racing, Kaase, Profiler, Blue Thunder etc., the HP gap between the BBC and BBF has virtually closed, at least in regards to marine and pulling engines. The A460 blocks are very strong and capable of an easy 600 Cu In displacement. In fact, the Ford will arguably produce more torque than the Chevrolet with a fatter torque curve at equal displacement. Take a look at where Jon Kaase places in the Popular Mechanics engine masters challenge building Fords! I'm not knocking Chevies because I own both Fords and Chevies. I'm just stating that many people who feel the BBC is so superior in making HP are about 20-30 years behind the times. A BBC will still be cheaper to build and marinize due to the abundant availability of used parts however, if both engines are built from new parts, the difference will not be very significant. The challenge with the Ford is acquiring state of the art marine hardware since most of what is currently available was designed in the 70's.

I'm currently planning a Ford Stroker Mercruiser application and if you jet guys think you have it tough.............

[rowdy1]

The big difference between BBFs & BBCs is in the bottom end. Ford uses a 6.7 length rod, & has a rod journal size of 2.5''. The Chevys use a 6.150, (or something like that) & the rod journal is much smaller. In fact the rod journal on the Ford is bigger than the main journal on the chevy. Translation--- the Ford uses longer rods which results in lower piston speed, & the piston spends more time @ TDC during ignition with gives you more torque. Plus the bigger bottom end is way more durable. It takes money to overcome the high RPM problems of a BBF, but the torque & power are there. The Chevy with its smaller bottom end, & shorter rod does make a snappier, more RPM friendly motor, but it is not as durable. With the aftermarket parts avaliable now for both engines, you can overcome any of the strengths of one over the other with a fat wallet.

[Mr.Rude]

Points well taken, I'm just saying that if the common man wants to use as many stock parts as possible... (crank, rods, heads) The Ford will make more HP/TQ and last longer with serious use as long as the builder/user knows which parts to choose. 600HP is a stock bottom end BBF's playground, just throw in some aftermarket rod/main bolts, some pistons and go!

[Still Crazy]

The big difference between BBFs & BBCs is in the bottom end. Ford uses a 6.7 length rod, & has a rod journal size of 2.5''. The Chevys use a 6.150, (or something like that) & the rod journal is much smaller. In fact the rod journal on the Ford is bigger than the main journal on the chevy. Translation--- the Ford uses longer rods which results in lower piston speed, & the piston spends more time @ TDC during ignition with gives you more torque. Plus the bigger bottom end is way more durable. It takes money to overcome the high RPM problems of a BBF, but the torque & power are there. The Chevy with its smaller bottom end, & shorter rod does make a snappier, more RPM friendly motor, but it is not as durable. With the aftermarket parts avaliable now for both engines, you can overcome any of the strengths of one over the other with a fat wallet.

Yep. The stock 429/460 rod has a center to center dimension of 6.605" with a 2.5" crankpin dia. whereas the BBC is 6.135" with a 2.2" crankpin. Yes, a better L/R ratio. The increased dwell at TDC improves volumetric efficiency and as rowdy states, more power and torque. The great Smokey Yunick realized this decades ago as he stuck the longest rods he could use in his motors with the obvious limit being the ring package.The popular Ford stroker kits use both a 6.7" and 6.8" custom rod with a 2.2" Chevy crankpin diameter, so you can retain a decent L/R ratio even with increased stroke. As you pointed out, valvetrain geometry and enertia issues in addition to the greater reciprocating mass weigh against the Ford in short stroke, high RPM applications, but in most marine applications like a jet or stern drive, this is not such an issue. You spin it only as high as required to produce the maximum power.

Oh and by the way, our Aussie poster might want to attend an ADRL or IHRA mountain motor pro stock event and watch those "classless"
Fords blow up.

[Mr.Rude]

Oh and by the way, our Aussie poster might want to attend an ADRL or IHRA mountain motor pro stock event and watch those "classless"
Fords blow up.

Or any Pulling Truck class that require stock geometry parts. There are many in my area with stock crank, rods, and 2 bolt blocks that run for seasons. One in particular has main studs, cap screwed rods, hi-comp pistons, but spins his 8000 with iron CJ heads and is on his third season with this motor!

[Still Crazy]

I guess it comes down to understanding the application and building the engine accordingly. Now if I can only come up with a bellhousing configuration that will work with my Bravo drive, I just might pull that classy 502 BBC in favor of a 572" BBF.

[rowdy1]

I had a Hollman & Moody bellhousing for the BBF. It had a bolt patten for a Daytona "crashbox" transmission. I need to look for it in my treasure chest of old ford stuff. Have you looked for a bellhousing from a Cobra (OMC) 460 set up. Nobody is using that stuff anymore, I'll bet it is cheap if it will work for you

[Mr.Rude]

Those 460 Cobra bells are always on Ebay, Here is one for $50

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/460-King-Cobra-Flywheel-Housing-Good-Condition-NR-/160472808414?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item255cecbbde#ht_500wt_1182

[Still Crazy]

Those 460 Cobra bells are always on Ebay, Here is one for $50

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/460-King-Cobra-Flywheel-Housing-Good-Condition-NR-/160472808414?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item255cecbbde#ht_500wt_1182


I have one! I'm going to pick up a Mercruiser transom plate and modify the OMC piece to fit it.

[SS-201]

Lunati 11602 is a good cam I have one in my 460, 1500- 5500 rpm pulls 14 gears v drive strong. .050 226-232 duration.

[Still Crazy]

Lunati 11602 is a good cam I have one in my 460, 1500- 5500 rpm pulls 14 gears v drive strong. .050 226-232 duration.

Thanks SS-120.

If I do the Ford, I'm going to go with twin turbo's and a very, very mild hydraulic cam to keep the overlap to a minimum, the idle smooth as glass and have the valve springs live forever. That way, I'll probably not have to worry about water reversion into the engine if I keep the water dump close to the turbine housings (as in "quiet").

My old 466" A head V-drive lurched and bucked through a no wake zone with a roller cam and tunnel ram. It also wanted to suck water out of the headers if you pulled the throttle back too quick.

[waterslinger]

You brand-X boys keep thinking the bbc is the best and i will keep blowing you in the weeds.

When you build a 500+ cube motor the fords are cheaper.

The SCJ heads at $1,600 ready to bolt on no Chevy aluminum head is that cheap.

Look at my 429 lol