Boating With Racers and Safety

[Liqui-Fly]

Several members of the NEODA came to the Rondak Romp this year and they all wore vests and had helmets at the ready. I remeber hearing something to the effect of "if you boat with us you wear a vest". I thought that was pretty awsome. Too many people look at safety as a personal choice and figure they are the only one effected in the case of an accident. Well I personally have never had to pull a buddy out of the water and hope to never have to but if the time comes a buddy in a vest is a lot easier to get to than one without. I currently do not where a vest...I don't think the speed of my boat warrants one but from now on while boating with others I will where atleast a ski vest. Thanks for the lesson guys...from now on vested. David

[JTS Racing]

Hey Fly.... Don't know what speed you consider warrants a vest. Jus fer fun:D, let someone else drive, get up to speed and jump. Let us know if the ski vest stayed on;)LOL.

I've been out more than I care to remember. A lot of times at slower speeds from other drivers being careless. IT HURTS!! You may be a great swimmer. But when things go wrong, you might not enter the water at a very fast speed. It's the possibility of hitting some part of the boat on the way out and being knocked cold. In colder waters, course ya's is always warm up there..lol.., dat hyper word can get ya quick. If you go out a good possiblilty your passenger(s) went to. What if your out jus running the engine a little by yoself?? A vest is a good thing. Helments are ok. Keeps the bugs out of yo eyes. Without helment restraints, they can do more harm than good should you enter the water wrong.

Safety for the most part is not required. It is a personal choice which everyone here will contest to. Question is...whats your current health and life worth to you and your family?????



[Edited by Hydro.... on 07-03-2001 at 12:35 PM]

[KG4]

I raced stock outboard hydroplanes and went in the water head first at 65 mph.The impact ripped my shoes off my feet and ripped my kevlar pants off down to my ankles.I was black and blue from the neck down and was so sore it hurt to **** and i had full race gear.Anybody that runs over 55 mph without a good vest with leg straps is retarded.

[tonye]

I always wear a vest, but I just found out I was retarded (my wife has known this for years). Where is a good place to find a vest with leg straps? You don't see this kind of stuff a walmart or BPS. Is there a web page?

[Liqui-Fly]

Mercury has one for around $70 but I don't know if it is any good. David

[JTS Racing]

Bass Pro Shops does have a vest with leg straps for only $80. XPS vest, stock #38-675-000-??. Last 2 #'s are for size and color. You can spend upward of several hundred dollars on a quality racing vest.

I'm not sure, but racing vest, although designed far better than most top quality store bought vest, are not coast guard approved. Might not pass your local state laws for the average boater.

Had a friend of mine killed several years ago in an accident. 18' Javlin, 150 Merc. Top speed around 55-60 mph. Cool morning with surface fog in a tourny blastoff. Had helment on. Witnesses said it looked like he hit wake that he didn't see or didn't correct in time for. Threw the boat sideways and out he went along with his partner. They contributed his broken neck to the water grabing the back of the helment and thrusting his head forwards, beyond its normal limit of motion. May have done it without the helment, but doctors said the increased weight and surface area of the helment added to the force. Who knows, when its your time, its your time.

[tonye]

Thanks Hydro, I guess that one that BPS has, is better than what I am currently useing, $80.00 doesn't even scratch the surface of concern when it comes to safety (for me or whoever is in the boat with me). It's sad that I have been boating for several years now and thought a jacket was a jacket never even gave it any thought until I got into the performance boating scene. The first time I seen 85 mph I knew that has to be better safety equipment for these rigs.

[Techno]

http://www.securityrace.com/

http://www.lifelinejackets.com/

Buy a few $5 lifejackets for CG requirements.

If I had to do it over again I would get the jacket so the helmet restraints are part of it. The helmet restaint with the helmet goes on first- under the jacket, then the jacket goes on. I find it a little difficult doing this unless I have my legs already through the leg straps.

How many people read HOT BOAT?
How many have seen anything on safety equipment?
Sure they throw the disclaimer in there to wear the proper safety equipment but they don't say what this is. What the choices are. What the level needed for use is. Where to get it or just how much this costs.
Don't you think it's about time they or someone else did an article on this?

[JTS Racing]

For the most part, I believe mags and people shy away from printed safety due to legalities. The racer supply companies do their homework and R&D and offer the best products in an attempt to keep us racers and speed freaks alive and uninjured, but read the sewn in labels on any race safety product. Race org's required levels of safety equipment depending on class, but you also sign a release before entering to not hold them responsible. Safety can be one of the most intensive conversations. What works for one application, might not work for another. Restraints are good but have to give enough freedom of motion to allow the wearer to easily reach and handle all controls of the craft, and allow the ability to move or turn if needed. Helment restraints that are sewn into the jacket work great for impact that would force the head forward, but do little in side, upward, or rearward motion. The system that goes on under the jacket is by far the best, but only for someone who needs forward vision only. When properly adjusted, you have little movement to turn your head. Look for capsule drivers to be required the HANS device by 2003. It is suggested now! Racers also have to have full clothing,,,long sleeves and pants, perferabily SFI rated. What would be the minimum safety for general, high performance boaters??? That is a question hard to answer. Should safety guidelines be established for the type of craft or the speeds at which one will travel?? Were to begin?? Some states have established speed limits that is reducing the number of accidents. Now if they can only get rid of wet bikes..lol.. I for one believe we should lend the knowledge of the available products and allow each individual to chose. Afterall it doesn't do any good to have the most high tech, expensive saftey gear......stored in the dry box...

[Techno]

I think that it would be a good start to mention that a "life jacket" is no good for a performance boat. That a 100 mph ski jacket will shred at speeds below 100 mph. But what good is it to say" make sure you wear any safety gear you may require" but Never Never Never Ever say what this is, even to at least say what it isn't. Saying what it isn't I think would be a good way around the legalities.

I would say that general requirements for performance boats would be a helmet, RACING jacket, and helmet restaint. Not one out of three or two out of three but all three. I think the issue is also determined by the boating that you do and not just the speed. Hopping waves at 50 and stuff the bow? What are the physics of the occupants then.

You lost me on the application thing. I don't think anyone is saying to dress like a capsule racer and then belt into an open cockpit. There are alot of different vest for what your needs are.

Why doesn't a jacket installed helmet restraint give the same protection as a strap system?

[BK]

I'm on the road right now, but would suggest that everyone interested in helmet restraints, get a copy of the magazine "Drag Boat Review" (dragboatreviewonline.com) and ask for the special "Souvenier Issue" that came out a couple of months ago.

There is a detailed article about the various helmet restraints available today -- as well as in depth info on the HANS system.

It is my understanding that the IHBA made helmet restraints mandatory several years ago and nobody Ive spoken with has heard of a broken neck related death since then. I talked to Faunteroy at Lifeline and O B Murphy who also makes helmet restraints and neither one has heard of a fataliity while a contestant was wearing these devices. These helmet restraints work for both non-capsule and capsuled boats. They prevent your head from extending too far, where it can break the base of your skull away from the brain stem.

Also, Lifelinejackets.com has a really nice 100mph jacket that can even be ordered to match your boat. The outer material is the same as the racing jacket. However, the chest (rib) protection (impact material)is not nearly as good as a regular LIfeline racing jacket. But it beats any of the bass boating jackets I've seen.

The real non-capsuled racing jackets are designed to roll you over and keep your head up which makes it really tough to swim -- so they dont meet CG guidelines. But you can always stuff one of those cheapie CG approved jackets under the dash to satisfy local authorities.
Be safe guys.

[JTS Racing]

Techno,,,,the application thing was just as stated. Capsule suits are as BK mentioned to keep you face up. If you are wearing one of those, rescue should be on you before you are able to get out of the cell. The rules are gray in the term "minimum flotation". Most of us remove the floation all together. This enables us to pull the seat belt straps tighter. The helmet will float you should you need to get yourself out. Also with the cell upside down and should you have to get yourself out, it is almost impossible to swim down with that much floation straped to you....enough about capsules, most here will never sit in one much less make a pass in a "true" capsule boat.

Bk mentioned OB Murphy. Don't know how many of ya know him. You ever get a chance to meet him and talk to him, you'll never forget it. Super nice guy. He inverted a couple years ago and the impact broke his neck. No damage as to cause problems other than months of being carfull and no racing. Last time I spoke to him, he was putting another ride together. Ok, back to the subject.....

As I stated about helmet restraints the 6 point system is by far the best. Most jackets that have them sewn into the back only have 1 or up to 3 if requested. You can even buy the straps from Jegs and Summit and have someone sew them on for you. The jacket area must be reinforced for this, so the better option would be to buy with those designed into it. The above mentioned were intended to be sewn onto the backs of driver suits in auto racing. The 1 to 3 straps are designed to prevent movement in the event of frontal impact. They do nothing to keep the head from snaping to the side, upward, and rearward, as might be the case of water catching the front just under the chin.

Tech, you mentioned the impact of the body at a 50 mph stop, as in stuffing the bow. That would be messy. Let's see...50 times body weight = impact force...is that right??? That would be 7500 lbs of force, for a 150# person, excerted on you. If your feet and legs are under a dash,,,,if the dash doesn't break up as you pass though it,,,,well, ya figure the rest out. The best jacket out there does little to protect from the waist down. Another thing we keep skipping over is helments. Restraints yes,,,but get the litest one ya can find. There are some real nice carbon fiber designs out there that are under $500. Get a full face and one that fits properly. If you are going to were a helment, protect the entire pumpkin.

Its like this,,,I've got a parachute jactet, capsule jacket with restraints sewn in, composite helmet for open running, carbon fiber helment with air for capsule, helmet restraints for open racing, neck brace, shin and knee protectors, forearm and elbow protectors, gloves have padding for the back of the hand, and will be shopping for a HANS before long. Minus the air system, just a little over 2K invested.

A little over $1000 will buy a top line jacket, helment and restraints. A lot of ya have that in the prop alone. I guess what amazes me is, some go out and drop 30, 40 or even over $50,000 in a high performance ride.....and wear a $30, Wally World jacket or even worse.....none at all:(.

Holiday weekend is here. Summer fun and time on the water. Ya have a safe and wonderful 4th of July. This is the date of our freedom that has given us the life we so much enjoy. Would be nice to still have each of ya to bitch at come next Monday:cool:.

[Techno]

OK BK & Hydro. What about guidelines on a slower boat? A lot of info for the "asphalt is as hard as concrete" speeds. How about a little slower and I don't know how slower just that their are others that need something but don't know what they need or at what speeds to wear it.
Any thoughts?

[JTS Racing]

Tech,,,I don't know if a "good" set of guidelines for slower craft can be written. As in an eariler post, my buddie lost his life at a speed of around 40 mph, and had on a good jacket and helmet. They were fighting wake in a blast off and had never reached trimed out running speed. I know speed ups the chances of injury, but guys have crashed, been thrown out, and tumbled from high speed mishaps without injury. Brused and sore yes, but nothing broken. Yet others have lost their life in slow, how could this happen, accidents. And most cases I know of, they had on NO jacket.

Have you ever been thrown from a boat??? Its not the same as falling while sking. The impact might be simular, but the moment is different. You often know when your going to hit coming off skis, but in a mishap with a boat, it happens so quick your in the water before you can react, and out of control. Stunned, excited, hard to breath, unfocused as to what just happened. Thank goodness your best friend...YOUR LIFE JACKET...has hold of you and keeping you on top. You ain't got time to swim and think too.

In the past I played a lot of upper class softball. Was my way of staying in shape. One of the guys that played with us in league play, worked in the ER at Southern Hills in Nashville. With Percy Priest being in the citys back yard, you can understand the type of pleasure boating that happens here. While it conversation one night about odds and ends we got on the subject of jetskis or wet bikes. He said that the highest percentage of injuries in the summer that they receive through the doors is a result of these craft. These are mostly broken arms and legs. I don't recall ever seeing a person on a bike without a jacket, but I see lots in boats without one.

I know...that is not the same as boats. But I see it that if you take the number of people with high performance rides as well as ski boats and typical pleasure boats, the amount of time that each spends on the water and the number of injuries or worse, is very low. One of the TWRA officals once told us in a meeting that there are more accidents and drowings here with jon boats than any other type.

I for one believe that a high percentage of our boaters must be doing something right or we would here and read of more accidents that led to injury or death.

It seems that the slower a craft goes the LESS need their is for a jacket or vest. Is this so??? You looking for a place to start guidelines....1st>Get a good jacket, not one of the $9.95 deals but one with straps that go around you and buckle. Don't ever depend on just a zipper.... 2nd> WEAR IT.....It floats, you don't.

[Techno]

I read in an old book that in most drownings that they found the guys zipper down. Must have fell overboard while taking a leak.

I still say the reason most people drown is that they are no longer in the boat. This on the face of it sounds like a rather stupid statement except that these drownings can happen at 5 MPH and they do not involve running into piers or car like accidents.
http://www.uscgboating.org/saf/pdf/Boating_Statistics_1999.pdf
8 minutes to down load.
most deaths were from capsizing or falls over board. 8 out of 10 deaths were not wearing a vest.
42 boats involved in racing 2 deaths
36 for hunting and 13 deaths
66 white water sports 25 deaths
I mention this because of the low numbers of boats involved. You check out the full listing.
BTW they have a seperate listing for jet boats, probably a political thing from the past.

If you do read this keep in mind that the CG term excessive speed means they were going faster than they should have been for the conditions not that they were going fast.

I think I'll get a more comfortable ski jacket for low speed cruising. When I go fast I'm protected but not at a very high risk. All other times besides going fast I'm at a higher risk but not protected.

Identifying a safety risk is the first step in prevention.

[Psyco]

It really amazes me.....Here in La. you hear about people drowning all the time. There was a fella I worked with a few years ago, we had discussed making a fishin' trip. In the conversation he mentioned that he couldn't swim. Now this guy was a full blooded 110% webfooted swampwater suckin' Coonass. I thought they all new how to swim! Well, knucklehead is out in his boat a few days later with some friends and hits a stump. All three occupants are thrown outa the boat and this fella drowns!! I feel bad for him, but this chowderhead did it to himself. I feel more for his family....we need to think about them when we are out runnin' our boats.
Then there's the folks overloading small bateaus (that's a johnboat to you yankees). We have borrow pits and interstate canals here. Every summer you here about folks overloading 10-12 foot boats with 4-7 people. No jackets and none of 'em can swim. HOW STUPID CAN YOU GET!!! And they all drown!! we are talking 4-12 foot of water and within 50ft of shore. I feel no pity for them.
I used to not wear a jacket, but with my first kid comin' soon I've taken to wearing one. No it's not a "100mph" jacket, but it's better than nothin'. I need to invest in a good pair of jackets but right now that is cost prohibitive on my salary. I am starting to get a little hypocritical now and I'm not gonna try explaining my way out of it.
Let's look at the big picture guy's. It's our responnsibilty to be as safe as we can while on the water. Not just for our own sake, but for our families and friends.
Oh,yeah....why aren't any of the drivers on the "Low flying airplane" board wearing any safety gear?

Take it greasy,
Steve

[Scott]

To all who posted here. As most are aware, I'm in the process of putting together what I hope will end up being a fairly high preformance ride (all right so it "WAS" a ski boat)and I appreciate posts like this one, of course ya just raised my investment a tad, but if it keeps me around long enough to see my little boy take over the hobby it's well worth it! BK, yer a serrious high perf. boater, Techno, Liquid-fly and the rest...THANKS!

[Psyco]

I was talkin' with the ball'n'chain and mentioned that I needed sum of dem good lifevestses. She said not to worry, that I was well insured an dat her an da kids would be jus' fine and that her third husband didn't like the color I picked out. Now i got to tinkin'.....I'm her second husband...who's the third?