V-6 Mercury Timing Modules

[dynobo]

Hey guys. This is a first time post for me ,but, to all you Mercury guru's out there I have owned a few 2.4 200's and 2.0 150's and love the darn things. My ? to y'all is what difference does it make if you remove the Black spark advance modules on these engines. I am completely aware of what they do at idle and at 5400 rpm's (200 hp.) but what effect would it have if they were removed. Even w/ the module not connected you should still have about 20 degrees BTDC timing @ WOT. We were dynoing some 3.0 liter OMC engines a few weeks back and all of them were set between 15 and 18 degrees total timing. They were all making between 265 and about 320 horsepower. Before y'all ask " yes they were modified not stock." Anyways BACK TO MY ORIGINAL ? What the heck does it hurt to remove the boxes. Not saying that I would I was just curious as to what it would hurt.

[175checkmate]

Welcome to the scream and fly family

[dynobo]

Thanks Checkmate. Glad to see some fellow Georgian's on board.

[us1]

Those boxes have actually burned up more motors than they have helped. I always remove them and set the timing to 23 or 25 degrees depending on the application.

[vector mike]

I want to remove mine too. I just did a bunch of mods and I think now is the time to remove it. Where exactly is this box? And what wires do you unhook? Do you have to do anything else when you remove the box except for setting the timing? :confused:

[175checkmate]

The booming metro of waycross is just north of jacksonville.

[dynobo]

Checkmate , I'm in Meansville, a small town about 15 miles southwest of Griffin.

US1 - Thanks for the info. I was just curious as to what effect it would have.

[us1]

Are we talking about your 84 MERC 2.4 200+.

[vector mike]

I need to know the how to's to do this. :confused:

[us1]

I belive its one the port side of the block just behind the throttle arm.

[us1]

What’s your motor serial number?

[vector mike]

Is that all you do is unhook it and nothing else?

[vector mike]

6538700. It is an 84 200.

[us1]

You remove it and then set the timing to 23 to 25 degrees.

[vector mike]

How about a short lesson on the correct way to set the timing. I've heard to do it a WOT and at cranking speed. I don't have a test tank or someone capable of doing it at 90 mph while flying across the lake so I guess I have to do the cranking speed thing. Don't you set it a few degrees low at cranking speed? :confused:

[us1]

The software does show you have one. It does not show where it is mounted though. Don't remove the low oil module by mistake. The black box you are looking for has three wires going to the switch boxes.

[vector mike]

I'll look for it when I get home. Does it have three wires to each switch box or just three total?

[us1]

I belive its three total.

[FASTPACE]

US1: I HAVE A 1988 MAGII, NEW BLACK POWER HEAD, 150 HP,
HAVE JUST INSTALLED BOYSEN REEDS, THE TIMING ON THE CRANKING SPEED IS SET AT 19DEG. BTDC, ? IS THIS AN APPLICATION WHERE THE TIMING MODULE IS TO BE UNHOOKED AND TIMING SET AT WOT TO 23 - 25 WHILE ENGINE IS ON DYNO? I NOW MIX MY FUEL W/OIL, DID NOT TRUST THE INJECTION/DESTRUCTION SYSTEM. RUNS ABOUT 5800 RPM , 23P PROP/3BLADE BEFORE NEW REEDS. I NEED MORE HP TO RUN A BIGGER PROP WITH MORE CUP FOR MORE LIFT FOR LESS HULL DRAG FOR A HIGHER RIDE TO GET THERE FASTER!!!!!!!!!!

[dynobo]

Vector- the timing module is actually on the top side of the engine almost directly above the port side head. The oil sensor US1 was mentioning is mounted more on the side of the engine. If I'm not incorrect on your motor the timing module should have a red/white, black/white and black. The red/white and white/black will both connect to terminals on your switchbox. And the black goes to engine ground usually on bottom corner of switchbox if my memory serves me correctly. Thanks for your help guys.

[us1]

You will have to give me your serial number but I think you have a detonation sensor. I like to disconnect and through away these too. The timing can be set a 23 to 25 degrees after it is removed. You will not get more power but at least your motor will not burn up when it malfunctions.

[FASTPACE]

US1: THANKS FOR THE INPUT. WILL FOLLLOW UP ASAP. ONE STEP AT A TIME. IF THE REWORKED 4 BLADE 24 TURNS , THE HEADS WILL BE NEXT. THANKS AGAIN.

[wrechin2]

The correct way (timing precedure out of the service manual) is to have it in nuetral and crank the engine with the starter motor. Electronic characteristics of the ignition system requires timing must be set a 22 degrees BTDC to obtain 20 degrees timing at WOT. This is out of the service manual for a 84 200hp. If you are going to set the timing to 23 or 25 degrees, just remember to go 2 degrees higher than you are setting for.

The spark advance module has a white/black wire and a red/white that goes to the switchbox and also has a ground wire on it. The white/black wire goes to both switch boxes. The red/white wire goes only to the outter switch box and has a wire red/white wire coming from the stator that goes to the same terminal for a power supply.
Hope this helps.

James

[us1]

The 23 to 25 degrees I am giving are already inclusive of the 2 degree loss at high RPM.

[us1]

Make a mark at .150 BTDC on the flywheel at set the timing to that if you are going for the 25 degrees.

[vector mike]

I looked yesterday and didn't see any box on it. I'll have to take another look today to see if I can find it. It seemed that all the wires going out of the switch boxes are to the coils and the stator. The information that you guys gave is a great help. I don't know what I would do without all your support. I'll check my flywheel to see if the zero lines up with TDC. Thanks Again! :) :)

[David]

What are the timing modules supposed to do?
If I disconnect mine should I run premium fuel?

(The fuel capacity of my Virage forces me to buy lake gas on day trips)

David
1990 XR4 w/G force tuner and boyeson reeds

[us1]

There are three kinds of timing modules. Idle stabilizers, maximum advance controller and detonation sensor. All of these control your timing through manipulation of the bias circuit in the switch boxes. That is all fine until an electrical malfunction when your timing suddenly advances to 35 degrees at WOT for no good reason. If you remove the modules and set the timing to 23 to 25 degrees at cranking I feel you safer form a melt down at WOT. If you don't know you motor well and how to read pistons you should probably leave it alone. After all there are 1000s of motors still running these systems.

[us1]

Sorry, to answer your question at 23 to 25 degrees of timing, no timing module and 145 lbs. or less of compression you can still run pump gas.

[wrechin2]

I have to agree with us1. Why take a change on a electronic box costing you an engine? They were put on them to help with idle quality and supose to help top end. Many people take them off and throw them in the garbage. The engine will run just fine without them. So what if it idles a little rough. Does it really idle smooth now? Not really right. Many people also take the oil injection systems off. I much rather know that my oil is mixed no matter what. But this is just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions right!:D :D

James

[mhr]

OK, mark the flywheel at .150 BTDC, remove all the plugs except number 1, connect timing light, spin the motor over with throttle arm held wide open. Then you adjust the screw that touches the block so the marks line up. Is that all their is to it?

Thanks
Mike

[us1]

Yes, make sure you ground all the plugs.

[CompKing]

Originally posted by us1
The 23 to 25 degrees I am giving are already inclusive of the 2 degree loss at high RPM.

US-1
I set mine to .150 BTDC but like to check it in the water running a load wheel.Am I still getting 25° or is it more because of the additional rpm's??

[FASTPACE]

COMPKING
THE .150 BTDC THAT YOU ARE REFERING TO? ARE MEASURING THE #1 PISTON WITH A DIAL INDICATOR, FINDING TDC, THEN BACKING THE PISTON BACK DOWN .150 , THEN CALLING THAT 23-25 DEG. BTDC?

FASTPACE

[us1]

.150 is 25 degrees at cranking. If you run the motor with a test wheel at high RPM you will see about 23 degrees. Dont go any more than .150.

[FASTPACE]

US1:
IF WE REVERSE CALCULATE???????? .150/25 DEGREES= .006" PER DEGREE. IF A 1" TRAVEL DIAL INDICATOR IS USED TO FIND
TOP DEAD CENTER, WOULD IT BE SAFE TO USE THE MECHANICAL
FINDINGS TO TIME THE ENGINE? THIS WOULD ELIMINATE THE
LOSS/ OR LAG TIME THE TIMING LIGHT HAS. THIS PROCEDURE WOULD GET THE ENGINE CLOSE IF OUR BLOCK ALREADY HAVE THE ELECTRONIC HAIRCUT.

[us1]

I not sure exactly what the question is. What is this lag time you are trying to overcome. The proper timing set is .150 at cranking speed with timing light.

[CompKing]

us-1
I ask a well known local racer/engin builder what he ran for timimg and he set his to 21° with load wheel(23° cranking).Is that a high rpm thing(it was a 2.0 Champ motor)what do you run and/or recomend on a 8000 rpm laker?

[us1]

.150 BTDC at cranking speed with a timing light.

[FASTPACE]

US1
I HAD TO REREAD THE ENTIRE THREAD. SCRIBE A NEW MARK ON THE FLY WHEEL .150" BEFORE THE 25 DEG. MARK?

[CompKing]

Originally posted by FASTPACE
COMPKING
THE .150 BTDC THAT YOU ARE REFERING TO? ARE MEASURING THE #1 PISTON WITH A DIAL INDICATOR, FINDING TDC, THEN BACKING THE PISTON BACK DOWN .150 , THEN CALLING THAT 23-25 DEG. BTDC?

FASTPACE
You had it right here:)

[FASTPACE]

I MUST HAVE MISSED A PAGE BETWIXT TRIPS TO THE FRIDGE?

THIS IS A GREAT THREAD GUYS. THANKS I BE MORE CLEAR NOW.

FASTPACE

[wrechin2]

US1,

Will using a timing light at cranking speed work with a distributor engine that is not ADI? Just curious.:D

James

[us1]

I don't know nothing about cars.:confused:

[CompKing]

us1
They got doors and 4 wheels:D :D :D

[us1]

What, no propeller.:confused: :confused: :confused:

[CompKing]

Only if they have a receiver hitch:D

[vector mike]

I read this again and have this question. If you ground all your plug wires by pulling the tether switch how are you going to get a signal off of the number 1 spark plug wire to check the timing? :confused:

[Raceman]

Wrenchin, the old static timing method of grounding a plug, rotating the engine backward, then back foward past the timing mark, listening for the plug fire is adequate for timing the distributor motors. If it's an inline 6 don't run it above 21 degrees, maybe lower depending on gas.

[us1]

Originally posted by vector mike
I read this again and have this question. If you ground all your plug wires by pulling the tether switch how are you going to get a signal off of the number 1 spark plug wire to check the timing? :confused:
Where did I say pull the tether.:confused:

[vector mike]

How do you ground all the wires except number 1?

[us1]

Put all the plug in the plug wires and ground all of them to the block. The electricity still flows to ground and fires the light.

[vector mike]

What do you use to ground all the plugs? Do you use a bunch of jumper wires or just let them touch the block? :)

[us1]

I run my coil ground wires differently so I can fit behind them. Any kind of ground will work.