My PWC bit-the-dust yesterday...

[JR IN JAX]

I went out yesterday afternoon to make the adjustments on my new turbo/boost system on my PWC. I made a few hard runs while adjusting and then talked to a couple of S&F members who passed by in their boats. I decided I still needed JUST a little-more boost, and then a little more...I found out just how much boost it could take when it started knocking. I put it on the trailer and today at lunch I tried to crank it, it was seized.....
Famous last words,,"Just a little more boost".:nonod:

[ivan2214]

well now its time for rxp upgrade......

[cb541]

Thats not good news.It looked like it was running strong.Good talking to you yesterday.Chris

[JR IN JAX]

Thats not good news.It looked like it was running strong.Good talking to you yesterday.Chris
I should have left it alone, it was launching/running strong but I thought it would take turning up the boost a little bit more....I am pretty sure it dropped a valve keeper/valve due to all of the boost [20+ PSI].

My boss wants me to buy his two '06 Honda Turbos that only have 15 hours total time on them. I will probably do that.
I will probably make a place to store this one and rebuild the engine in it next winter.
Chris,
See you in Sanford, hopefully I'll have my new prop by then.
JR

[JR IN JAX]

well now its time for rxp upgrade......
That is why I don't have a 280 or a Drag, I am more into reliability/low maintenance than ultimate top end. My '02 Honda turbo has 500 hours at very high boost [16+] and most of it's hours at 90% power. The rent-a-ski places [Bill Costa's] in Hawaii are getting 1200 hours on an engine rebuild with the Hondas.

If not another Honda, I would probably buy the Yamaha 1800, since my friends haven't had much luck with their 'doos, even though they are fast.

[90 5.0]

boost is like crack, once you feel it you need more and more and more.

[skydog]

So so true i have a 1200 Ski-doo that i put a turbo on and last time out was 22PSI hahah (about 380HP) What is your CR? What kind of fuel you running? Sounds like good old deto took place.:mad::eek: Good luck with it!

Skydog

[90 5.0]

Do you have a retard box on it?

[skydog]

For your fuel and timming do you run a pigback ecu? Like on my sled i run Rapid Bike i pull timming as boost goes up and add fuel as boost goes up, it has a map sensor you add! I had to add bigger injectors, 2 to 1 fuel psi reglator boost rising,colder plugs,head shim and a big MSD fuel pump to get the fuel shes needs. With this set up i can run my AFRS at 11.6-11.8 all day.

Skydog

[JR IN JAX]

The Honda ECU does have a knock sensor and will pull boost/timing if it starts to knock. I bought a kit that has two pressure regulators that will reduce the pressure to the MAP sensor [to keep it from going into overboost alarm] and reduce the pressure to the wastegate actuator for more boost.

I was only running 93 octane but I have a huge aftermarket intercooler so 93 should be enough.

The Honda's stock valve springs are very weak and a lot of boost can keep them from closing. This causes them to "Chuck" the valve spring keeper and then the interference fit heads eat the valve/piston.

The Honda is still the most reliable ski I have ever had and get the best fuel economy which is important due to the very long trips we take on it.

[skydog]

Man i find it very hard to belive that pump gas at 20+PSI will work!! My sled with 9:1 cr and in ice cold winter with a big inner cooler,timming pulled,colder plugs needs 110 motor Octane to live. I would guess your motor is around 9:1 cr to. I would run better gas next time around for sure!! Just trying to help out buddy been boosting these things for along time.

Skydog P.S. What is stock boost? Is this a stock turbo?

[90 5.0]

Man i find it very hard to belive that pump gas at 20+PSI will work!!


:iagree:

That seems way over the ragged edge to me as well.

[JR IN JAX]

Man i find it very hard to belive that pump gas at 20+PSI will work!! My sled with 9:1 cr and in ice cold winter with a big inner cooler,timming pulled,colder plugs needs 110 motor Octane to live. I would guess your motor is around 9:1 cr to. I would run better gas next time around for sure!! Just trying to help out buddy been boosting these things for along time.

Skydog P.S. What is stock boost? Is this a stock turbo?The stock boost is 13 PSI and there are many that run 17 PSI on Ca 91 octane as long as they have a good intercooler. Aren't the once thru water intercoolers more efficient than aircooled or coolant recirc intercoolers?

I had hit 21 PSI before but not for long due to overspeeding my stock turbo and snapping the shaft. Honda uses an F1 type ceramic ball bearing turbo that is ultra expensive [$2,500.00].

When the knock sensor "pulls" you can really tell it.

[skydog]

10-4 buddy 17 is along way from 21 i would stick it at 15PSI pump and put a meth kit on and run 18-19 then if you want more i would toss some race fuel at her. Fuel is cheap hahah well kind of. 4 stroke motors not at all. That is just me....Well good luck with her!!! Water to water inner cooler is better than air to air but you are still way past just making sure the charge is cold.
Matt

[90 5.0]

It look slike all of the mods you have talked about are geared twards getting more boost, not making it run right under boost.

20psi with stock springs?? Are you kidding me :noemo:

20 psi with no retard box, fuel , timing management system.

back it down to 15-17, and start getting the other stuff to make it run right and you'll actually pick up hp and some longevity.

[JR IN JAX]

It look slike all of the mods you have talked about are geared twards getting more boost, not making it run right under boost.

20psi with stock springs?? Are you kidding me :noemo:

20 psi with no retard box, fuel , timing management system.

back it down to 15-17, and start getting the other stuff to make it run right and you'll actually pick up hp and some longevity.There are guys that are retrofitting Motec and other ECMs with wide-band O2, ALS and other goodies. I have not bought/converted to them since the stuff is not very waterproof /salt resistant.

[skydog]

You dont have a wideband O2 on it? Wow buddy that is a MUST have you are flying a plane with no gauges!! I am about 100% sure you lost this motor from deto. When you get the head off take some picks. Good luck with her buddy!!

Matt

[1BadAction]

Man i find it very hard to belive that pump gas at 20+PSI will work!! My sled with 9:1 cr and in ice cold winter with a big inner cooler,timming pulled,colder plugs needs 110 motor Octane to live. I would guess your motor is around 9:1 cr to. I would run better gas next time around for sure!! Just trying to help out buddy been boosting these things for along time.

I don't find it hard to believe. Static compression ratio is only a small part of what makes an engine tolerant to boost for a given octane.

I do agree about the tuning though. IMO if you can't tune something, might as well leave it stock.

[90 5.0]

There are guys that are retrofitting Motec and other ECMs with wide-band O2, ALS and other goodies. I have not bought/converted to them since the stuff is not very waterproof /salt resistant.


Well, if you absolutely are not going to listen to any of what any of us are saying about what to do and are hell bent on just cranking the boost with out the right crap you need to do yourself a favor and go ahead and get a hook up for junk yard motors because you're gonna go through a bunch of them.

[skydog]

I don't find it hard to believe. Static compression ratio is only a small part of what makes an engine tolerant to boost for a given octane.

I do agree about the tuning though. IMO if you can't tune something, might as well leave it stock.


Yes there are lots of things you need to take in to account but your CR is a BIG BIG part of it!:thumbsup:

Yes knock on wood have not lost one yet!! But it all falls back too three big things! Baby steps, real good tune, watching the motor ( piston wash,plugs,wide band O2,fuel psi)

Skydog P.S. And lots of FUEL!!!!!!!!!! Here is the pump set up i have to run to keep the Afrs safe. With big aftermarket injectors and turning the staic fuel psi up 4 PSI.

[JR IN JAX]

Well,
I hope the story has a happy ending. I went to Savannah yesterday and purchased three '06 Honda Turbo F12Xs [124 hours each] that had spent three years with little maintenance on a salt water dock. Only one of them is still running but it needs the pump rebuilt and cleaning out the salt from the exhaust cooling port [the exhaust is overheating]. The turbos still appear good in all of them [$2500.00 part].
Hopefully I can combine the parts from mine/them and end up with two or three running Honda turbos.
I really like the Hondas due to their fantastic fuel mileage and rock-solid dependability [if you don't overboost them or let the corrode away].

[JR IN JAX]

Well, if you absolutely are not going to listen to any of what any of us are saying about what to do and are hell bent on just cranking the boost with out the right crap you need to do yourself a favor and go ahead and get a hook up for junk yard motors because you're gonna go through a bunch of them.
Contrary to your belief, almost all of the Honda failures are not detonation, but from the Valve springs being too weak for the high boost pressures. The high boost floats the valve open, the piston taps it and the keepers go flying. The piston then comes up with the valve all the way down and "presto" you loose the engine. There are hundreds of people running higher boost on their Hondas [19+] but to keep the ECM from Pulling boost/tiiming/fuel they run huge intercoolers [like mine] and 100 octane fuel.
I am going to upgrade my valve springs, which I should have done before but was too lazy to pull the heads in that tight area.
JR

[skydog]

Sweet Good luck man!!

[JR IN JAX]

Thanks,
I need to get the PWC thing "behind me" so I can concentrate on my boat. I have not had it out this year and am supposed to go to Sanford this weekend.