More Information on the "REED" test we'll be doing

[Eagle One]

I reposted this due to the idiot trying to push his apparent nonexistent,unproven "radial" reed. I've offered to test the product absolutely free several times and all I get is. well you all know how that's gone. It is truly a shame that we have people of this caliber trying to interefere with decent discussion of a topic many people are interested in. Often those with inferiority complexes demonstrate their lack of character and integrity by acting in such a childish manner. I could suggest that I post his E-mail address here and let everyone flood his in mail with complaints but that is beneath my dignity and would only allow him the attention he is so desparately seeking.Fear not, the administration here is aware of his childish antics and as he re=registers and post anything I'm sure he will be dealt with just as he has been repeatedly. I will continue to post new material as we get it. Bear in mind we do have work we have to do for customers and that has to come first. :

Attached are some photos of the engine parts we'll be assembling and testing reeds with on our dyno. If you'll take a good look you'll see the cages we'll be using. A stock cage with steel reeds as they came from Mercury, A bare stock cage and a cut cage. The cut cage will flow around 35-40% more than the stock unit with no other changes. Bigger hole, more flow. You'll also notice the rods, one is a box stock 644-818141 rod and the others have been lightened and polished. Yes we're using stock rod bolts as we are not intending to turn this engine too much above 8000 rpm for the test and we want to use real everyday parts like the average everyday hot rodder would have access to and could afford on a tight budget. If you note the pistons, they are single ring S-3000(300 drag) pistons which have been run in a F-1 engine and taken out to be changed. We have modified them slightly and recoated them, otherwise they are just as they came in the engine used for F-1 racing. These are available as shown from us for $85.00 each.Take a close look at the block. It has had the rod slot areas worked ( not to extreme) the exhaust chest has been done and the sleeves were recut in the port area on our mill here before they were installed.This block started out as a bone stock 200 HP carbed 2.5 Merc. Chris Carson was nice enough to send us several sets of his reeds for both stock and cut cages in various thicknesses as well as a set of Boysen 267E recreational reeds. We intend to test some Boysen 267Y units as well and I spoke to Tony Doukas last week and expect some of his product in any day. Everything pictured is available from us. Both products and machine services.These are just some of the pieces we'll be using and we'll post more info and pics as they become available.

[rbodine]

Chris will this test be relevant to someone like me with a stock 250, who is thinking of upgrading it slowly, a little money at a time. It seems like your motor will not be stock? Will these findings translate to a stock motor? Thanks for your time, great test, I always look forward to unbiased test's, myself and the rest of S&F appreciates this also

[ChrisCarsonMarine]

Rbodine,this is Noah's post at Eagle One,he's the one conducting the tests,i'll let him handle his post,but I do make reeds,Chris Carson

[stvhelm]

noah, up load your photos on tinypic.com then copy and paste the link with the [IMG tags on it into your post.
they will appear full size in your post.
I'll be a spectator in the stands

[Eagle One]

I just reposted my pics from copying them from the post here last night. I'll load em' back up from my office computer tomorrow where the originals are and that'll fix it. Worked fine before. Got some more to post anyway.

[Raceman]

If you do 'em on TinyPic like Helmut suggested they open FULL SIZE and make for a LOT BETTER viewing than attaching them here.;)

All you gotta' do is go there: WWW.tinypic.com (http://www.tinypic.com) hit Brouse, just like you would to attach here and select em from your files and hit Upload Now.

When it finishes, find the box that's labeled "for forums and message boards" and put that URL in your text here, and PRESTO, you've got a full sized picture instead of those little thumbnail things.

[Eagle One]

Pics are fixed

[coop26]

It is certainly true that at some speeds and throttle openings all engines both two and four cycle will produce intake flow reversion, that is actual direction reversal of incoming airflow. This is different than wave reversion that you hint at when sound, not air, reverses direction from either a closed or open end of a pipe or duct. This reversion sound wave in the two stroke actually increases the total airflow into the engine at peak power speeds as the soundwave heads back to the carb opening in response to the closing of the intake as a pressure pulse but because of the clever "bell" shaped end of the caruburetor it changes sign and creates a reversion or low pressure pulse that adds to the incoming charge impetus. I believe that radial reed when mentioning less "reversion" is really implying that his device has less air, not wave, backflow and therefore increases the total air volume or "trapped" air in the crankcase at the end of the intake cycle. My comment was that at peak engine speed with the reversion wave effects of the intake and exhaust systems that very little air backflow in the intake track acutally does occur. This is not to say that as I mentioned before that at other than peak power speeds reversion does not occur.mike b

[coop26]

was not referring to accoustical wave tuning. Only air flow reversion. Single cylinder lawnmower engines are the easiest to see the reversion effect. A damper hinged at one side and placed in the induction path down stream of a carburetor or butterfly such as a throttlebody will quickly show the effect. While the engine is running at part throttle, it will flip back and forth on each induction cycle just as a reed does in an engine but free floating without the spring returning it, just reversion. Sudden throttle opening causes it to slam open and slam closed, then gradually returns to a back and forth movement. Imagine what happens on a two-stroke snowmobile engine at sudden throttle opening at launch. It makes accurate carb fuel metering very difficult. Wild porting just exacerbates it. Multi-cylinder 4-stroke carbureted racing engines I've dynoed with EGTs and oxygen sensors in all eight exhaust pipes are another problem, in that reversion "cross talk" at WOT full load interferes with individual cylinder air/fuel distribution. This effect is, as you say, more pronounced at rpms farthest from the peak torque and peak hp rpm ranges. Unfortunately, this is the range where most engines are operated in. Devices which are designed to capitalize on reversion pulses to help atomize fuel have been shown to improve air/fuel mixture variation by as much as 43%. The result is more throttle response, better low speed torque, better fuel efficiency and reduced emissions. ps dont play new reed to much for you we see 45 more hp out s3000 good day sir
- Show quoted text -

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 12:45 AM, michael bonavita <[email protected]> wrote:
It is certainly true that at some speeds and throttle openings all engines both two and four cycle will produce intake flow reversion, that is actual direction reversal of incoming airflow. This is different than wave reversion that you hint at when sound, not air, reverses direction from either a closed or open end of a pipe or duct. This reversion sound wave in the two stroke actually increases the total airflow into the engine at peak power speeds as the soundwave heads back to the carb opening in response to the closing of the intake as a pressure pulse but because of the clever "bell" shaped end of the caruburetor it changes sign and creates a reversion or low pressure pulse that adds to the incoming charge impetus. I believe that radial reed when mentioning less "reversion" is really implying that his device has less air, not wave, backflow and therefore increases the total air volume or "trapped" air in the crankcase at the end of the intake cycle. My comment was that at peak engine speed with the reversion wave effects of the intake and exhaust systems that very little air backflow in the intake track acutally does occur. This is not to say that as I mentioned before that at other than peak power speeds reversion does not occur.mike b i call you out 12 time my email you call me 732 535 0085 let play

[coop26]

i call you out 12 time no e mail o call 732 535 0085 45 more hp out s3000 play play not dont call me out

[coop26]

NOT FOR sell IN USA USA

[coop26]

NOT FOR sell IN USA USA
cr250 like 500 lol:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

[Scream And Fly]

Mike, exactly what is it you want?

[Capt.Insane-o]

I doubt it's "Mike" Greg.. just a copy and paste of 'Mikes" articles with some nimrod posting them here. Judging by the engrish anyhoo.

[Scream And Fly]

I doubt it's "Mike" Greg.. just a copy and paste of 'Mikes" articles with some nimrod posting them here. Judging by the engrish anyhoo.

It's him, I just checked the IP addresses. :)

[Todd D]

How about some 3.0l results.

[stvhelm]

do you have actual pictures of the reed set up for 2.5 merc? (not a drawing)

[Mark75H]

Can't figure out why you are not using an IP ban

[Scream And Fly]

Can't figure out why you are not using an IP ban

We could - I was about to, but we avoid it sometimes, especially with a site this large. Many times, people will share the same IPs across different ISPs. Though rare, it happens.
I just wanted to see if he was going to live up to being a good member here or continue to play games.

[Mark75H]

You can always search by the IP address and see if it affects more than one member - that's the other side of a site this big ... if it is a shared IP, it probably already shows.

We had that come up on BRF in the past and had to do bans other than IP because of sharing.

[Hoss Marine Propellers]

I'm REALLY interested in this thread and look forward to the results.
It should be useful to us guys that like doing the little things before we send entire engines off and spend the big bucks!!!!
I might suggest making this thread a sticky if enough people are interested in the results as they come in????
Thanks EAGLEONE for the time your spending and the info you're sharing!!!!!
Tim Bostic

[powerabout]

You can always search by the IP address and see if it affects more than one member - that's the other side of a site this big ... if it is a shared IP, it probably already shows.

We had that come up on BRF in the past and had to do bans other than IP because of sharing.
Bring on IPv6!!

[HStream1]

Been awhile. No update? Or did I miss something?

Everyone have a Safe New Year!!

[Eagle One]

We're starting this test today or Monday and I'll post more under a new post "Reed test results"