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View Full Version : need help for setup on vegasxt



heavy
09-11-2002, 02:21 AM
runing a 90 vegas xt with a 89 200xp rude why is it so slow im pissed tried a few differnt things mostly with raker props and jack plate height its setup good with aftermarket parts but it almost aint nescasary to have a steering trim and hot foot at 72mph.motor is bone stock i am told it has good compresion at 80pds. but rpms. are low with a24raker 5300 unless i jack the plate up to high stoker says he can get some very good horespower out of the motor 280ish range. i believe him but was not reel egear to spend the money if i have to i will but was hoping to see 80 stock also is lacking accelration some good advice for props and maybe mods would certainly be appreciated

heavy
09-11-2002, 02:24 AM
just seeing how the hell the web site works

vector mike
09-11-2002, 06:33 AM
What is your gear ratio? With a 1.87 gear ratio you would only be running 58 mph with 10% slip. And you said that the cylinders only had 80lbs. compression in each one, I know if my compresion was that low, there would be something seriously wrong and would be time for a tear down.

missinglink
09-11-2002, 08:04 AM
Welcome to the board heavy.Like Mike said your compression sounds low you should be turning a 24 more than 5300rpm.I had a 85 Vegas xt with a 85 200 merc with 10" of set back but it probbly could have benefited from more My best prop was a 28 Mazco turning 6100 rpm for about 78 mph.Check the motor to make sure everything is ok first.

AnthonySS
09-11-2002, 09:15 AM
HEAVY...yes all the numbers seem amiss.

Like others said that boat should run easy into the mid 70's and 80 is not out of the question either with 200 hp.

What is the condition of the hull...I wonder if the transom is weak and causing some power flex.

Aagin your compression is very low

MTCM
09-11-2002, 11:26 AM
Compression too low.....time for rebuild. That boat, with fresh 200 hp and proper setup should run 78 to 82 depending on load and water conditions.

Nosubforcid
09-11-2002, 11:57 AM
85-90 psi depending on your gauge is normal stock compression for an early 3.0 looper. You should do a cylinder leakdown test they are alot more accurate than a compression test. How much setback are you running? Try a shooter they work much better on the XTs than a raker or a renegade. A 200xp like yours should run between 78 and 82 mph on a Vegas with a stock gearcase mounted right to the transom in the top hole swinging a 27 shooter 6500 rpm. Shooters are my favorite all around props for the XT no matter what brand of motor is on it. You can also go back 8 inches and run an Alabama cut chopper, a Triton or an SRX but the boat won't ski worth a damn with that setup. If you are going to have your motor built you can't go wrong having Stoker do the work.

heavy
09-11-2002, 12:27 PM
ran a25 shoter and had more luck with top end with the rakers i dont doubt the motor needs a rebuild it was not acurate all the way across the board with the compresion test but no more than 10pds. off from each cylinder and progresivly seems to be getting worse as the year goes on i dont use the boat for skiing i decided that at the time i bought it its to much of a hassle with a manual jack plate when its used primarily for running anyway it loves the bowlift of the rakers and is definitly faster with the 3 blade but runs more consistant top end with people in the boat with a renagade not enough to run one i think a good over the hub three blade might work well with the same bowlift capabilities as the raker i just have no idea which one if i stay with the rude stoker will definitely be getting his hands on it,thanks

Nosubforcid
09-12-2002, 02:06 PM
On an XT a shooter or trophy will run the fastest if the motor is bolted right to the transom in the top hole without a nosecone. If you go back top speed with the four blades drops. If you don't go back at least 8" then most three blades won't be able to carry the bow without running the gearcase real low or using alot of positive trim. So if you are between right on the transom and 8" back nothing really works very well on these boats. If you are setback and have water pressure running without a low water pickup your gearcase is too deep in the water. With that setup a raker will carry the bow like nuts you aren't ever going to go very fast.

heavy
09-12-2002, 09:40 PM
nosubforcid thanks for your imput i appreciate it that is something that i definitely have not heard yet i am running 6 inches of setback and was playing around with it tonight i did find a sweet spot on the jack plate but once again that is with me in the boat by myself spedo is reeding 80 but it is between 3,4 mph off still an inprovement from were i was by 3 mph i just got the 24 raker a week and a half ago and looks like that one is good to go compared to the 26 also the motor loves the cold weather here in ill.i did run another copresion check loast night and due to everone saying it needed to be rebuilt although we know that 80-90 pds. is good for an old rude had to double check there was a cylinder that was kinda ify last time and now after checking it repedidly it is consitently 10pds. off pulled the plug out and looked and from what i see the cylinder has some scary scufs in it i believe its time to get started on mods i didnt want to take the heads off until i was ready due to the gaskets 50.00 a piece going to be loking for heads and reeds boaring will take place at 30 over believe thats puting me at a 225 and then off to stoker it goes for some new holes!we se if we can get a little windy in the cylinders and then to the mulcher with the vro and on with a electric feul pump would like to see at least 90mph.i guess its only money thats why we work right were not workin for free and will be buying a 8 or ten inch plate wanted a hydrolic one anyway girlfriends really going to moan about the checkbook this winter until she goes for a ride but sure to resume shortly there after thanks for the imput again on the plate nosubforcid ;)

pyro
09-13-2002, 08:17 AM
I have an '89 Vegas XT with Merc 200 EFI.
My favorite all-around prop is a 26" trophy plus. here's why:

28" big-ear chopper, 78 mph @ 6400 by myself (15% slip), 74 mph @ 6300 with passenger, upper 60's with a boat-load.

26" Trophy Plus, 76-77 mph @ 6200-6300 by myself (9-10% slip!), 75 mph with passenger, 70-73 with a boat-load.

The trophy is more responsive to trim with passenger load, by producing noticeable bowlift, whereas the chopper responds to trim by producing a nice rooster tail. :D The chopper does its job best when I drive alone. When I drive solo, the trophy gets me over 70 much quicker than the chopper, but it takes either one over 1/2 mile to hit 76-77.

I would love to try a 26" big-ear chopper sometime...

Nosubforcid
09-13-2002, 11:20 AM
Pyro you are in the XT bottom "dead zone" with the 4.25" setback of the L&S plate. The fact that your chopper is slipping so badly means you are running too much positive trim even by youself a sure sign of insufficient offset. If you go back another 4-6" you will find that overhubs will carry weight better and run faster. Then all you have to do is send your chopper to Tim Hackney and have him work it. A combination like that is usually good for 82-84 mph light and 74-77mph fully loaded.

pyro
09-13-2002, 01:27 PM
I personally have not heard of any first hand experience involving anyone with a Vegas XT that could do over 80 with a stock 200. I am well aware that mine needs more setback than the L&S offers. It suffers from poor bowlift with ANY passenger load. I wish I had a jackplate with 8" setback, but I would also then have to worry about the transom. It is all original from the dealer in '89, no reinforcing plate has ever been used. The transom is solid, but the signs of stress are visible, as the transom topside is bowed out 1/4" or so in the center, with the usual hairline stress cracks in the corners of the splashwell. Many years down the road, if I still have this boat, I will have it re-built, including lightweight floor and new transom, with reinforcing knees that will support anything I can hang on it. But, in the meantime, I am trying to save money, only hoping I can keep this boat after I get married. This boat is still like new, the floor and seats are all original and rock solid. There were few hulls made in mine's 5-color scheme, on top of that. I will never find another like it if I ever have to sell it.

Extra setback will require new steering cables, of course. Can I get long L&S studs and use them to add spacers?

heavy
09-13-2002, 06:58 PM
pyro i think your boat and mine wre made on the same day almost everything that you said i can relate to, what year is your merc and does it have any mods. i didnt even think about having to replace the stering cables with the extra setback but i have a 6 inch plate and come to think about it there are pretty tight i have replaced them before and i know they are 15ft. and to ad to that i found out you can buy ultraflex cables for it and save some pretty serious cash without buying moorse or teleflex cause you can buy the ultraflex without the helm i think i paid 160.00 for the pair of ultraflex i have a friend there that also has a 88 vegas xt and he has a 89 2.4 bridgport on it with some fairly descent mods he runs right at 90mph. but has to run hi8gh octain feul.my personal opinion is the vegas can handle any horespower you can through at it he is running about 280ish with his so therfore whats it take to get this ****in thing over 100 probably about a years worth the income and maybe 340ish horespower, to my knowledge there is not to many motors out there even with mods that can run that kinda horespower so why is the vegas like this it doesnt make any sense it wieghs about 875 pds when it hits the pad suposidly its only riding on the middle skeg but in my opinion the boat still drags water with the side sponsens this i think inlies the problem and the other real problem is that everybody else likes to talk **** about there mph.and to give up a few mph. for the way the vegas ride is is fair enough to me it flies nice and for a lite outboard boat it is extremely stable at high speeds in chop or otherwise. so a yeaRS worth the income here we go thanks for the reply pyro. usually the allison owners are not lying about there horespower have experienced that first hand.

pyro
09-14-2002, 09:26 AM
Yes, my motor is bone stock. I turn 6500 rpm with it regularly, it has never been re-built. The only mods are to the EFI cold-start enrichment circuit for more reliable starts.

If you want to go over 100 in a 'Stream, get a v-king or an HST. The Vegas XT takes a lot of horsies to get much over 95. You should be able to reach 100 with 280 hp and proper setup.

The sponsons do actually leave the water (with little or no passenger load.) You can feel a mild rush of acceleration around 65-70 mph as the sponson drag is eliminated. The sponsons give this hull incredible low to mid-speed handling, and also add a small amount of aero lift. As far as the drag goes, think about the 18' Valero YT. It rides of three wet points, it's like an XT with long sponsons. A YT hull will do over 100 easily with 280 hp, but it doesn't handle mild rough water as well as the XT.

A v-king or an STV is going to hit 100 easy, but look at the downsides: the vking has little interior room. A tunnel or MVP sprays your face at slow cruise speeds, is more blowover prone, is also low on interior room, and what about insurance coverage? Don't even go there. (although I admit if I ever sell my vegas I'm buying a STV Euro.)

It's kind of a trade-off. The XT has traditional v-hull deck styling, LOTS of interior room for a boat of its size, it still handles rough water pretty good, turns on a dime, pulls skiers, and still out-shoots your neighbor's jet boat. That's a pretty damn versatile boat. Looks neat too.

Enjoy it for what it is: A great all-around boat with sub-80 mph top end. Give that white motor a freshening, or better yet, get yourself a Merc that can turn some more RPM's.

Nosubforcid
09-14-2002, 11:33 AM
Sorry to disappoint but Vegas XTs from Minnesota Hydrostream were more like 1000-1100 pounds for a hull with interior and steering. I think that 875lbs is pretty light even for a bare production hull without a floor. From what I have gathered the only Vegas XTs Popkorn ever built that were in that weight range were the couple of stringer bottom comp hulls that were campaigned with limited success in Mod-VP.

Wiski
10-11-2002, 02:45 PM
Don't have any answers, but some personal info that might interest you...

I have a 90 Voyager XT (identical hull, but with an open bow) with a 95 Merc 200 ProMax and about a 6" hyd jack plate. My boat "should" be heavier than the Vegas models, and I suspect mine is heavier than average Voyager XTs with some water damage.

Anyway, I have tried alot of props. I have a 28p Merc small ear chopper that just can't carry the bow. I would like to try a 26 or 28p BIG ear also. Tried a 26p Trophy, and a 26p small ear chopper too. No magic there. Biggest problem for my boat is I NEED a bow lifting prop to get the speed. Otherwise, I have to trim it out too far, and loose efficiency of the LU. (I think)

The 65mph "Hump" is a bitch to get past in these hulls with only 200hp it seems. When you do get everything right, the boat gets loose at around 65-70mph, and you instanty gain 2-3 mph.

Took Pyro's (and others) advice and bought a Tempest 25p earlier this summer. Best speed was 74mph before I had cup added, then 77.4mph on GPS after being worked a bit. Am I happy? Yes, I think that is a pretty good speed for a full interior bow-rider. Am I satisified with that speed? Hell no! I will keep trying props and set-ups. That's part of the fun! My motor supposedly has a rev limit of 6500 or 6750rpm depending on who you ask. I have seen as high as 7000 rpm on the tach, but never hit the limiter yet. I know my tach is off, as Medalion instruments are know for this I understand. My hydraulic steering cables will allow for another 6" of set-back, but I am skeered like Pyro about the added transom stress. I have the all to common Hydrostream cracks in the splashwell, and the crack down by the drain plug too. Might try 2" spacers first.

I have 3 friends that have identical Voyager XT's (1989-1990 years) with 200Yam, 225Yam, 225Merc PM. Also know of a guy that has a Merc 300 on his Voyager XT. He "says" he runs 94-98mph depending on conditions. Don't know if true. One day, I would love to get all five together for a photo. All are within 50 miles...

They are great, semi inexpensive older sporty boats. They are great for a load of people, handle great, and ski pretty good too. They will never be that fast, but respectable... I would love to have an 80 mph boat, but I will not sacrifice reliability with engine mods to get it. I do all the proper maintenance, and love the "gas it and go" nature of my family boat. There, I said it... I have a family boat!

Have fun.

pyro
10-12-2002, 03:51 PM
you may have read my post from a few weeks ago, I posted to brag about hitting 80 mph @ 6500 RPM in 65º weather with light fuel. What a rush! It can be done. (28" big-ear chopper, 3/4 mile to hit 78, another 1/2 mile and small trim/jack adjustments to hit 80)

Not bad for a bone stock 2.4...

flyboy
07-30-2003, 09:30 PM
I have an 88 voyager xt with a 91 yamaha 225 and 6" of setback it runs 72 mph at 5800 rpm with a 26 pitch laser. The bow cover makes a 3-4 mph difference in speed on that boat!

I think the optimum prop for that hull is a 28" big ear chopper according to hydrostream.org

pyro
07-31-2003, 06:30 AM
Wow, this is an old post! I got the needle on the calibrated dash speedo to touch the 80 mark last year, didn't have the GPS, but I have checked the speedo against it and it is accurate.

I'm not sure how I ever made that mark. Almost certainly because of the cold weather.