Trim tabs....

[oldskier]

I had been conversing with Wizard on a porpoising thread and it has turned out to be a distraction to the thread owner, so I brought it here. I am going to put a set of Nauticus trim tabs on my Viper. I have tried everything available to me in the way of engine height and prop to get it to settle down, and Dan (Wizard) has put a set on his Viking and cured the problem. I have been trying for a year to get mine right and had given up and decided to sell the boat to someone with the right skills to get it fixed. But before I do, I want JUST ONCE (at least) to drive this boat to it's potential.

Flame away....

Bernie

[delawarerick]

Im probably gonna get bashed on this response but remember the old adjustable fixed tempo ones. Alot of round bottoms and jet boat used them. I have 2sets up at the shop so I can't give a picture but they worked. Rick

[Wizard]

I'll repeat on this new thread what I said on the other. I spent countless dollars and hours, using the best expert advice this board and others could give. I tried 12 different props. I bought a hyrdualic jackplate so I could easily adjust engine height on the fly. The jackplate has 4" of setback which is as short as you can find. I moved around batteries and weight. I have Seastart Hydraulic steering. I used a LASER to check the straightness of the pad. My gearcase is a torquemaster with a Bob's nosecone attached by Bob's. It's totally straight. My engine is mounted perfectly straight. NOTHING worked. Anything 25-60mph the boat would hop out of controll. The only time the boat did not porpose continually was when it was over 60 and on the pad. But then it was a violent beast and when you slowed down the porposing would restart.

I don't know why. I was ready to sell but boat but was hard pressed to figure out who would buy it if they could not drive it. Frankly I would not have bought it if I could have driven it. I'll never buy another boat I can't test drive. I was desparate because I had spent a ton of money and it is a beautiful old classic. I just loved it and always wanted one.

So I did the unthinkable to high performance pad drivers. TRIM TABS! :eek:

No regrets. My boat is night and day different. I can take my hands off the wheel at 40 - 50 and 60 mph. On the pad it does not chinewalk at all until you reach 80 and it's really flying. Then the chinewalk is controlable like any other pad boat with driver input. I've run 85 with four people in the boat. I've hit 90 by myself and there is more there since I'm on the limiter with my 29p prop. I'm looking for a 32 to try.

If these nautica tabs should slow you down I would never be able to run these numbers. (I have a GPS speedo)

So like Bernie...flame away. I'll be happy to give a demonstration ride to anyone who cares to come my way. :cheers:

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r389/danco411/Camping001Medium.jpg

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r389/danco411/Camping002Medium.jpg

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r389/danco411/Camping003Medium.jpg

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r389/danco411/Camping004Medium.jpg

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r389/danco411/Camping024Medium.jpg

[delawarerick]

The tempco's are the early one like those in your picture. They are a right angle with an adjustable plate. Do those self adjust? Rick

[transomstand]

But before I do, I want JUST ONCE (at least) to drive this boat to it's potential.


But once you do, that will be the end of the for sale thread:p

I don't see where they will help at high speed, only in the mid range:confused:

[transomstand]

Take a little ride to Raystown Lake in a couple weeks, you'll leave with it fixed:D

[Wizard]

Take a little ride to Raystown Lake in a couple weeks, you'll leave with it fixed :rolleyes:


I don't see where they will help at high speed, only in the mid range

I figure just the tips are draggin when on pad. That would add stability but not enough drag to slow you down. I know it works though.

Yes Rick they self adjust. The faster you go the water pressure pushes them up. They have six settings for pressure. Mine are in the middle.

[oldskier]

Take a little ride to Raystown Lake in a couple weeks, you'll leave with it fixed:D


Pete, If I show up a Raystown with a big honkin set of chrome (stainless) trim tabs flappin off the back of my boat, no one will talk to me.:eek:

I REALLY would love to come and let people with more experience give it a shot....without tabs. I had convinced myself at first that I just didn't have the sKill to drive it, then I convinced myself (with help from the board) that I just didn't know how to set it up.

Well, maybe all of the above, but if $200 and suffering the shame of using crutches fixes it, so be it.

[transomstand]

Pete, If I show up a Raystown with a big honkin set of chrome (stainless) trim tabs flappin off the back of my boat, no one will talk to me.:eek:

I REALLY would love to come and let people with more experience give it a shot....without tabs. I had convinced myself at first that I just didn't have the sKill to drive it, then I convinced myself (with help from the board) that I just didn't know how to set it up.

Well, maybe all of the above, but if $200 and suffering the shame of using crutches fixes it, so be it.

They will probably help you, but would still prefer to repair the real problem.

Come up Friday night. By morning, they'll be gone:D

We'll have some good experience there, particulary Helmut, who along with being an exceptional driver (and former Viper owner), is equally skilled in setup knowledge.
Unfortunately, Ronnie won't be there, because he's too busy making little Viper drivers.
I wouldn't mind taking it for a ride myself, and might have an idea or two.

[Hippie459MN]

Do what ya gotta do to fix the issues so you keep that thing. You put to much work into to get rid of it like that. :D

[delawarerick]

Do what ya gotta do to fix the issues so you keep that thing. You put to much work into to get rid of it like that. :D

:iagree:and remember 2 boats are better than 1 its in the math. Im renting here and I now got a boat and 4 motors while up at the shop another half dozen engines and my real boat:DRick

[Wizard]

So Transomstand if I bring my boat to Raystown and you can't fix my problem will you pay for my trip? :thumbsup:

I can take the actuators off and zip tie the tabs up and out of the way and viola the boats in it's virgin state.

I'd love to see a master at work.:cool:

[transomstand]

So Transomstand if I bring my boat to Raystown and you can't fix my problem will you pay for my trip? :thumbsup:

I can take the actuators off and zip tie the tabs up and out of the way and viola the boats in it's virgin state.

I'd love to see a master at work.:cool:

Nope, your boat can't be fixed:nonod:

[XstreamVking]

I think you guys have the right idea... Fix it with whatever means available. The tabs will give you enough lift to get past the un balanced part, and will act like small air deflectors at speed.. I have a V- king and my boat has a slight porpoise that goes away at 40 or so mph. If it were really bad I would go for the wedges and trim tabs myself...The flats boat in my avatar runs 80 or so and has tabs on it. Seems to have the airfoil effect at speed as the bow wont go too high when crossing wakes etc...Only alternative is to flip em and put a little hook on the back edge of the hull.. Believe it or not some drivers can push thru the evil acting part and get even an ill handling boat to run...But it isn't safe....

[Riverman]

Nope, your boat can't be fixed:nonod:Judging by the way is floats statically :iagree:

[Wizard]

It's fixed now! Oldskier will be with me. A couple old dudes with Crutches on boats that can't be fixed. :thumbsup:

Enjoyed the dialog guys. I'm in love with my boat now.... flippers and all. :cheers:

[oldskier]

Wiz, if it runs 30-40-50....90 now without porpoising....:iagree:...it's FIXED!

Talked to John at Nauticus and the prices have gone up a little....$249. He suggested the 60 lb. actuators for mine.

Just got finished remodeling the bathroom, have to wait for payday. Wait...IT IS payday!:D

[Wizard]

Don't you just hate it when something works so good the price goes up? But Bernie remembe it beats a 15" mid! :thumbsup:

[brown]

Called naticus and the guy was really helpful, ebuyersworld.com $189.00 for the mobster angle trans mount up to 250hp. Mine are on the way. Thanks wizard.

[transomstand]

It's an epidemic:eek:

[Hippie459MN]

If my vulture ends up needing them, I wont be scared to put em on either but gonna do trial and error first.

[Wizard]

More like sacreligious! :D

I'm probably like alot of guys who bought old streams. Wanting one since being a kid and finally being able to buy one, either already refurbished or able to do it yourself. These boats are truly unique. But we have to remember what they were designed for. Pipkorn designed these boats around V4's and inline sixes which where the best power of the day. 150hp was overpowering most of his models until the HST's came along. Also there was no such thing as jackplates back them and running a prop surfaced was not the norm. As times progress folks put bigger motors on these boats and needed to run the propshafts at higher levels. A big V-6 with a 20" mid put the center of gravity way higher up and farther back than origionally designed. Now we start rebuiding them and like Bernie no one ever skimps on a rebuild. They want it to last. So we add more weight.

Granted some get them to run good. But overall I've heard most of them naturally porpose in midrange cruise speeds. If yours don't then you have something good going. Most just drive faster to get it on pad. Me I'm not a balls to the wall WFO guy anymore. I used to be but not anymore. I like to cruise with my ole lady, the kid and the dog. I don't want a carnival ride. If I did I would buy a jetski.

So why not trim tabs. In the water no one can see them anyway. They make my boat civilized and comfortable. I can drive it like a wildman or an old man, the boat don't care. I'm not afraid to lay it out anymore because it's predictable. This boat won't hurt me where I had my doubts about the OTHER one. :eek:

Again it was the best $200 I ever spent on it. And I'm sure Bernie and others will be chiming in here to agree with me. We'll now be the "flipper dudes"! :cheers:

[Stitch King]

All summer long I listened to WIZ lament on the porpoise problem his boat had in the midrange. Once he drove through it, the boat was fine up top is all I heard for weeks. He was OCD on solving the problem. In fact my engine hoist got more use than ever holding the motor while he tried everything recommended here on S&F.....different jack plates, wedges and so on. He's probably had 20 props on that boat too in hopes that the Mid Range Porpoise would go away to no avail.

Once he added the flippers the Mid Range Porpoise went away. To have a $200 solution for something that could otherwise consume many more hours and dollars is invaluable. This is particularly true if your leisure time is valuable.

I think it was Einstein who said, "We cannot solve the current problems by thinking like we always have." This is Out of the Box thinking that worked.

[brown]

They look clean as well so I'm all for what helps, the euro with the trannin wheels was cool but the streams lines just flow so sweet and to get to ride steady with out the motor totally tucked, thats worth the $200 alone. I'm sold:iagree::thumbsup:

[Riverman]

So we add more weight.Why? There is no need to make the boat heavier. A resto on a Stream can easily be done with the end result being the boat being both much lighter and much stronger than original. I bet mine lost 30- 50 pounds. Many, many Vipers, Vectors and V-Kings are safely carrying V6s without being turned into tanks.

Extra weight in a performance boat, over and above what needs to be there is always counter-productive. The good thing is all you need to fix it is a grinder! :D

[oldskier]

Ordered mine from ebuyers last night. I will report the results. The price quoted by John at Nauticus was list, mine were 189.99 from ebuyers, free shipping.:thumbsup:

[Wizard]

Unfortunately Riverman I did not do my resto. I'm hardly going to remove the floor and take a grinder to my boat in the HOPE that removing 30lbs will fix the problem. My time is worth more than that as well as my sanity.

Like Stich said sometimes you have to go against the grain and the "experts" and think outside the box. I think all you hard core guys who are so against this would become believers in two passes in my boat. One with the tabs flipped up and out of the way and one with them functional. I'm not even coming close to describing to you the difference.

[transomstand]

Why? There is no need to make the boat heavier.

You did yours wrong. Add 200 lbs. of lumber to the rear of your hull, and destroy it's balance, then you can come here and announce you've discovered the setup tip of the century:thumbsup:

[oldskier]

30 lbs of grinder dust....makes me itch just thinkin of it.

[oldskier]

You did yours wrong. Add 200 lbs. of lumber to the rear of your hull, and destroy it's balance, then you can come here and announce you've discovered the setup tip of the century:thumbsup:


Pete, I don't think the Wiz or myself have represented this as the 'setup tip of the century'. The word 'crutch' has been used a lot. We KNOW our boats ain't right. I just wanna go faster without bringing several changes of underware with me.....or spending any more money on GAS (which has been a real problem for me while I test) to find the REAL problem, if we can crutch it and still have fun.

DISCLAIMER: NO ONE IS SUGGESTING TRIM TABS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE THE SKILLS, TIME AND MONEY TO FIX THEIR BOAT PROPERLY!

[transomstand]

Pete, I don't think the Wiz or myself have represented this as the 'setup tip of the century'.

I don't think you represented it as anything, other than something you'd like to try. You didn't make any absurd challenge about "if I can't fix your boat".

[LSaupe]

Thought I would jump in here as well. I like Wizards approach, plus the fact that he found (and posted) a real solution. Great help there.

I run a V-King that had porpoise as well. 40-60 MPH. Also real bad chine walk.

I am running a V-6 Johnson with 6" setback, Trophy Plus and Titus lower with torque tab. The boat has all new wood and no more wet foam. Very light.

I started running around 2" below the pad and had real chine walk and porpoise. eventually I ended up at 3/4" below the pad (as high as I can go). Porpoise had settled down to a manageable level by then (but still there). Chine walk was still an issue.

I also was about to give up on the carnival ride. I did get lucky though. The next thing I did was mount a level inside the boat. Then repositioned everything (battery etc) to get it level statically in the water (port to starboard axis) with the driver in place.

After this last effort - no more porpoise (at all at any speed) and very little if any chine walk.

All in all I am not quite sure which knob did what, but FINALLY have a very fun easy handling boat.

If I make future changes and the porpoise comes back I won't hesistate to add trim tabs.

Larry S.

[transomstand]

Thought I would jump in here as well. I like Wizards approach, plus the fact that he found (and posted) a real solution. Great help there.

I run a V-King that had porpoise as well. 40-60 MPH. Also real bad chine walk.

I am running a V-6 Johnson with 6" setback, Trophy Plus and Titus lower with torque tab. The boat has all new wood and no more wet foam. Very light.

I started running around 2" below the pad and had real chine walk and porpoise. eventually I ended up at 3/4" below the pad (as high as I can go). Porpoise had settled down to a manageable level by then (but still there). Chine walk was still an issue.

I also was about to give up on the carnival ride. I did get lucky though. The next thing I did was mount a level inside the boat. Then repositioned everything (battery etc) to get it level statically in the water (port to starboard axis) with the driver in place.

After this last effort - no more porpoise (at all at any speed) and very little if any chine walk.

All in all I am not quite sure which knob did what, but FINALLY have a very fun easy handling boat.

If I make future changes and the porpoise comes back I won't hesistate to add trim tabs.

Larry S.

The "few", the proud, a non porpoising Vking owner. With a 6" plate and heavy Johnson no less:eek:

[Wizard]

You sound alot like Obama Transomstand. YES WE WILL. CHANGE WE CAN COUNT ON. But no real suggestions other than you messed up your boat. I've done alot of searching on the board on porposing. Your there on every one of them offering nothing but... you have to work on it. Well I got news for you bud. Obama ain't gonna fix **** and my boat could not be fixed with set up. So maybe the previous owner put 200lbs of wood in my boat. My guess is if he did that it would not run nearly as fast as it does. Larry was able to fix his porposing with weight adjustment. Well I tried that too. When someone like yourself can't understand that some things can't be fixed with the standard fixes and belittles those of us who admit it and look for outside answers I can only offer "absurd challenges". Guys like you only understand stuff like that because you have no answers. Your "bring it Raystown and it will be fixed" statement is more stupid than my "if I bring it and you can't fix it pay me" statement. Call a spade a spade dude.:rolleyes:

The few...the proud...90mph flipper boat owner!

[Riverman]

Wizard, your boat CAN be fixed and by the look of the thing (cosmetics) it is worth fixing. You wouldn't consider using your boat with a pile of rocks in the back - why not rip out all that crap and redo it right? Winter is coming - tear it apart!! You think you have an impressive holeshot now, wait until you remove that big fat guy that is laying under the floor!

[Wizard]

Dude your assuming theres something wrong with it. Hours of hard work, which I don't have, to maybe remove a few lbs of wood? Sheesh. Why when for $200 I can run 90 and take my hands off the wheel at 80. You think this boat can go faster? You assume I want to go faster?

Why are you guys so bothered by these stupid tabs. Is my boat not a 90mph hydrostream Viking because of those silly tabs on the back. Why are you so offended by them? Listen to yourselves. You'd think I'm slaughtering baby seals! LMAO

Can't wait for Oldskier and Brown get theirs installed and find out how much fun their old boats can be. No more spending hours and money beating our brains out trying all the internet experts advice to no avail.

I ain't no Einstein but I ain't ignorant and I ain't stupid.

[Riverman]

It's not about the tabs man. And by the looks of how the boat sits in the water it's not a few pounds either it's more like 200-300. Are you denying the boat won't run better if it was lightened up? I don't really care what you do, I'm just trying to encourage you to get your boat to run better - that's what this site is about.

Lighter is better (based on intended use of course) ALWAYS.

[transomstand]

You sound alot like Obama Transomstand. YES WE WILL. CHANGE WE CAN COUNT ON. But no real suggestions other than you messed up your boat. I've done alot of searching on the board on porposing. Your there on every one of them offering nothing but... you have to work on it. Well I got news for you bud. Obama ain't gonna fix **** and my boat could not be fixed with set up. So maybe the previous owner put 200lbs of wood in my boat. My guess is if he did that it would not run nearly as fast as it does. Larry was able to fix his porposing with weight adjustment. Well I tried that too. When someone like yourself can't understand that some things can't be fixed with the standard fixes and belittles those of us who admit it and look for outside answers I can only offer "absurd challenges". Guys like you only understand stuff like that because you have no answers. Your "bring it Raystown and it will be fixed" statement is more stupid than my "if I bring it and you can't fix it pay me" statement. Call a spade a spade dude.:rolleyes:

The few...the proud...90mph flipper boat owner!

Well....I guess you told me:thumbsup:

My 30+ years of running Hydrostreams just can't compete with your one season of experience:nonod:

I'll try and throw around advice more loosely in the future, even when I don't know all the essential details, because lousy advice demonstrates "expertise". Are you still advising Ventura owners to use 6" of setback?

[Kartracer]

It's like putting a steering stabilizer on a race car rather than replacing a worn out rack.

[1BadAction]

I always love when people with ill-handling boats give setup advice, then proceed to tell the guys with good handling hulls how wrong they are. :rolleyes:

[Wizard]

It's like banging my head against the wall. I'm giving up. Your 30 years, my 30 years whatever. We all have our years of experience. To use your anology of the Ventura I guess your an expert on overweight Vikings? My point is each hull is different. It's not black and white. Riverman you have no idea about the weight of my boat by the way it's sitting from a picture. I have pictures of the entire rebuild of my boat. It was done correctly and if anything is 30-50lbs heavier.

Let me state this one more time then I'm done. I have tried every bit of advice from every expert on this board. Nothing worked. NOTHING! Transomstand your 30 years of hydrostream experience was WORTHLESS to me. When John Tiger and John Janaky said you have a problem that can't be fixed it became unfixable by standard fixes. So you go to the unstandard.

By the way Transomstand. My friend on my lake and another good guy on this board has a Venture II with a 175 on it. It was also an untamable beast. He's added daul feeback steering which helped but his motor is on the transom as high as it will go. The propshaft is buried at 4.5". It's still wild. Any idea on how to raise the motor 4" without a jackplate?

I'm all ears expert.

BTW what does that sweet setup Ventura of yours run on top? It would suck to get your azz handed to you by a overweight, poorly set up boat with flippers. How far is Raystown?:cheers:

(The Wizard can talk chit too!) :D

[transomstand]

The propshaft is buried at 4.5". It's still wild. Any idea on how to raise the motor 4" without a jackplate?

I'm all ears expert. :cheers:

It takes real talent to make a Ventura undriveable, but I guess you've just got the knack:thumbsup:

Why would anybody want to raise an engine 4" without a plate?:confused:

[transomstand]

It would suck to get your azz handed to you by a overweight, poorly set up boat with flippers.


Your right. The only thing worse I can think of is to get that pristine Vking beat by an ill handling Ventura with a $350 junk yard motor and no tabs.

[Kartracer]

Any idea on how to raise the motor 4" without a jackplate?

Cut it.

[P man]

Post some pix of the rebuild (and in no way is this meant to stir the pot!!!)
From what I remember it was a pretty good looking V-king

[transomstand]

(and in no way is this meant to stir the pot!!!)


I don't think that's possible, unless you put this thread in a paint shaker:eek::D:D

[oldskier]

Thanks all for the responses, this was the whole purpose of this thread: Get the flame wars moved off a relative newbys thread so he could go about fixing his porpoising Vking.

Worked like ExLax!:D

Anybody fixed his boat yet?:eek:

[Riverman]

It was done correctly and if anything is 30-50lbs heavier.:eek::rolleyes:

Bernie did you put solid mounts in your motor yet? That mod does wonders to reduce chine walk.

[Wizard]

It's all good. Can't change ideas without friction. The bench racing stuff is all in fun.

But to answer you question Transomstand you said a 6" jackplate on Ventura was stupid. So a 4" would be OK? He has to get the engine up because the buried Chopper is pushing the boat all over. I've been around the block a few decades with this stuff myself contrary to your believe it's only been one year. :cool: Please elaborate on the perfect Ventura set-up so we can save some time and money. :cheers:

Bernie this has gone as predicted right? :D

[oldskier]

:eek::rolleyes:

Bernie did you put solid mounts in your motor yet? That mod does wonders to reduce chine walk.


Jeff, I bought some last year and pulled the powerhead before I found out the ones it had on it were already solid mounts. I knew the lowers were, but no way to tell if the uppers are with this motor without yanking the powerhead. Anybody want to buy a set?

[oldskier]

It's all good. Can't change ideas without friction. The bench racing stuff is all in fun.

But to answer you question Transomstand you said a 6" jackplate on Ventura was stupid. So a 4" would be OK? He has to get the engine up because the buried Chopper is pushing the boat all over. I've been around the block a few decades with this stuff myself contrary to your believe it's only been one year. :cool: Please elaborate on the perfect Ventura set-up so we can save some time and money. :cheers:

Bernie this has gone as predicted right? :D


Well, yes, but I didn't think ALL the players would turn out to be my friends.....

[oldskier]

It's like putting a steering stabilizer on a race car rather than replacing a worn out rack.


Kartracer, I had missed this one, and your anaolgy is lacking a point or two. I feel confident a race car steering rack could be changed in an hour or two, and it would be OBVIOUS it was worn out. I have been running this thing back and forth to the lake, coming home disappointed EVERY TIME for a year. If this were an obvious problem, don't you think I would have fixed it by now?

Dude, I have my 'race car' FOR SALE!

It's more like the chassis needs to be rebuilt but I DON"T KNOW WHAT TO CHANGE!

[transomstand]

It's all good. Can't change ideas without friction. The bench racing stuff is all in fun.

But to answer you question Transomstand you said a 6" jackplate on Ventura was stupid. So a 4" would be OK? He has to get the engine up because the buried Chopper is pushing the boat all over. I've been around the block a few decades with this stuff myself contrary to your believe it's only been one year. :cool: Please elaborate on the perfect Ventura set-up so we can save some time and money. :cheers:



Edit: Just reread his setup, the no feedback steering is not a good choice
That's a big reason I'm shy on advice here. I've asked him for pics of the boat, and he wasn't able to get them. Without seeing what he's got, I'm afraid I'll miss something, or leave out something critical.

I like a Bob's convertible plate with 2 1/2" setback (any more setback than that, and you'll need flippers:D). Most any cone seems to work well, although I think my "new" CLE with Bob's cone has the potential to be pretty fast. The boat is not fussy at all about engine height, from 3" below the pad to as high as you want and still making pressure. I place the battery behind the seat box.

What will affect it most is a too heavy engine package (it likes a motor about 350 lbs best), it will run too deep in the water, and if the driver tries to force it to fly higher with too much trim, it will show him an amazingly violent chine walk. The lightest Merc package you can run is a chrome 2.4 with the very early 2 ram trim, comes in at 330 lbs. Got all the parts here, but too lazy to put it together because I keep saying if I'm going to that trouble, might as well make it 15". Someday I'll get around to it.

Bob's plate, battery in the middle, cheap cone w/o LWP, propshaft 1 1/4" below the pad, tight dual cable steering, solid mounts, 28" big ear chopper, 1.87 gear set, will produce a package that runs 78 mph like it's on rails

[transomstand]

Almost forgot, you asked how fast the Ventura was.........

























It's really fast:D
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/transomstand/flyingstream.jpg

[oldskier]

light too....

[P man]

Almost forgot, you asked how fast the Ventura was.........

LOL It looks like its running a little bow high...
i got this...














CANARDS!!!
http://i26.tinypic.com/20gjuc8.jpg

[Kartracer]

Kartracer, I had missed this one, and your anaolgy is lacking a point or two. I feel confident a race car steering rack could be changed in an hour or two, and it would be OBVIOUS it was worn out. I have been running this thing back and forth to the lake, coming home disappointed EVERY TIME for a year. If this were an obvious problem, don't you think I would have fixed it by now?

Dude, I have my 'race car' FOR SALE!

It's more like the chassis needs to be rebuilt but I DON"T KNOW WHAT TO CHANGE!

I understand what you are saying. With race cars (and I know they aren't the same), you build a car as light as you can, then put the weight back in where you need it to make weight.You don't need to make weight, so if you have too much material in one place, putting a little more weight in other places to make up for the heavy spots shouldn't be an issue. Maybe I am missing something, but it could be quite simple, just something you are not thinking of.

[transomstand]

Maybe I am missing something, but it could be quite simple, just something you are not thinking of.

That's been my contention for months. The setup can't be that far off, all the basic stuff is done. That's why I keep ranting for him to come to an event. We'll put a dozen pairs of experienced eyes on that thing and somebody will say "What about this", and it will be fixed:thumbsup:

[stokernick]

just put RONNIE in it and hang on!

[transomstand]

just put RONNIE in it and hang on!

He's too busy making little Viper drivers these days:rolleyes:

[transomstand]

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/transomstand/bernie-yes-we-can.gif

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:p

[Wizard]

You guys crack me up. :D It must be something simple. :thumbsup:

[oldskier]

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/transomstand/bernie-yes-we-can.gif
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:p





Now THATS a change I can believe in!

Wiz, you know the deal, it's ALWAYS simple to fix....once you FIND it!:eek:

I ordered the wrong tabs.... gonna be a while...

[jp2dunk]

In 1977 I purchase a new vector.Put an inline 150 26" chopper prop later a jack plate but that bugger pounded until you got it above 60 mph.It was sold to me at a very good price but the dealer didn't say anything about this problem then but said this boat was a left over.And that all vectors have this problem.So After a year I went to work with that grinder and fixed the hook in the pad.Guess what changed nothing.At 55 mph it came out of the pounding.So I looked for other problem and located hooks built in to the outer running surfaces.If you check for straightness of the bottom of your boats check the bottom out from the pad .as the boat goes faster it ride more on the pad and less on the outer surface port or starbord of the pad(forward of the trim tabs area).That is NOT fixable except maybe by putting it back into the mold.Hydrostream did have problems with rushing to build too many boats and mold that were over used.:eek:

[transomstand]

Vectors never rode as well a Vkings. Been some loooong threads here whether that was a hook or a wedge. Either way, it's purpose was to help hold the bow down. In the inline days, we always flew them very nose high to get maximum speed.
We sold our first V-6 powered Vector in early 76, remember it was a bear to get rid of the chine walk with that big, fat lower unit, but I don't recall it being a bouncer.

[transomstand]

It must be something simple. :thumbsup:

Has to be, I'm not smart enough to figure out anything complicated:nonod:

[Makinwaves]

You guys are a riot.

If self adjusting trim tabs are such a NO NO, why do we need adjustable power trim?

If guys would look arouns, they'll see a river racer with canards on it, and some turbines with adjustable flap controls in the front too.

Tastes have changed, motors have changed, steering has changed, change is good. Get ytour 30 year old hull up to date.

[transomstand]

Mostly because there are thousands of boats that run without them, so no need to increase drag.

Additionally, long years of experience tell us that if man built it, it will fail. What happens if a shock lets go at 90? I'm a firm believer in K.I.S.S.

[Riverman]

Mostly because there are thousands of boats that run without them, so no need to increase drag.

I'm a firm believer in K.I.S.S.Yes! More drag = slower, less drag = faster. Fix the problem, not the symptom.

[DavidW]

I was reading through this an it got me wondering... I have a 86 18 motion (one of the action copies) , if you look at the boat from the side it has huge hooks built in at the chines , they look like built in trim tabs at the outer edges of the transom. This boat has all the weight in the rear and I couldn't get it to bounce if I tried. These hooks are out of the water at higher speeds but I always assumed they were there to make it ride smooth at low speed. I thought actions were kind of like newer updated copies of hydrostreams.

[JWTjr.]

with the way that white Viking floats. It's no deeper than any other viking, including my current one.

If those tabs fixed the problem and you're happy with the boat, I'd say you're done. No sense bashing what has worked for you.

John

[transomstand]

with the way that white Viking floats. It's no deeper than any other viking, including my current one.

If those tabs fixed the problem and you're happy with the boat, I'd say you're done. No sense bashing what has worked for you.

John

Talkin about Makinwaves boat John, not Wizard's.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/transomstand/other_beatingA_DeadHorse1.gif

[Wizard]

My tabs are so far outboard that when fully on pad they are not in the water at all...so no extra drag. Next weekend I'll have my 260 mount. Should be fun! :cheers:

[oldskier]

Well, I finally got to test the tabs, all I can say is AMAZING!. Wiz, thanks for the tip that FINALLY made a boat out of a dangerous carnival ride. The difference to me is like a magic trick. It comes out of the hole very level, it NEVER porpoises at all up to 6k RPM. My gps was dead so I didn't get a speed read, but I know the tach near 56-5700 was 68 on gps for a second when I could get a second to look at it before. Now I can drive it with one hand at 5-6K rpm.

The main thing is that it is COMPLETELY DRIVABLE NOW. ALL the bad habits are gone, porpoise, AND chine walk.

I will give you my best example. My son was with me and we were out having FUN for a change, he was driving, when the bolt in the throttle cable fell out. I opened the clamshell, and hand operated the throttle to get us a mile back to the dock. While sitting on the edge of the splashwell, I PLANED THE BOAT OFF! This would have meant certain ejection before I put the tabs on, If I could have gotten it to plane off at all.

I can't tell the experts what is wrong with the boat, if I ever get a chance to get someone who really knows set up and can fix it I will, but I can say to anyone who is dealing with a porpoising, chine walking monster that wants you to die, like I was, if you just want to go for a nice, safe, fast boat ride, NAUTICUS TRIM TABS will get you there.

Bernie

[transomstand]

My son was with me and we were out having FUN for a change

Fun is good:thumbsup:

So is it still for sale?:D

[oldskier]

Fun is good:thumbsup:

So is it still for sale?:D


UMMMM...not this year.:thumbsup:

[Makinwaves]

Mostly because there are thousands of boats that run without them, so no need to increase drag.

Additionally, long years of experience tell us that if man built it, it will fail. What happens if a shock lets go at 90? I'm a firm believer in K.I.S.S.
:icon_bs:

Apparently your long years don't help you understand how these smart tabs work. If you been paying attention you'd realize that you can run 90 WITH OR WITHOUT THEM. If one breaks, what's the difference. They not touching the water anyway. They flat with the hull or higher before you hit 30 mph. VERIFIED FACT. Yes, they actually fold up higher than the hull plane. They do very little at high speeds except help get you there smoother & easier.

I broke mine off, AND knocked a giant hole in the gearcase too. MY HULL NEVER WENT THAT FAST TILL AFTER THE ACCIDENT. Broke off shocks and all So you can take your panic stricken end of the world warnings and stick it back in your panties, sell your boat and go back home to mama before you contaminate the open mind thinkers.
Now that's off my chest. :reddevil:

Understanding the REAL problem is half of the solution. Addressing the issues one at a time may be difficult for some, but I assure you using the shotgun approach is not the way to go. What "I" have learned from this board on theory is we need less bow lift from the prop.
These hulls are definitely light in the front.
We are backing the trim angles down once reaching race speeds to maintain control. Most props lift the bow too much which compounds the issue at the lower problematic speeds. Those running WFO all the time report less of a problem. This is understandable, they out of the zone most of the time. Those who don't need WFO but 1% of the time have concerns.

We want to be in control of the bow by using our power trims and jack plates after we balance our fore & aft weights out. Balancing is easy. Just having a friend crawl out on the deck and or move about the compartment will this will tell what needs doing. Alone? Small hydroplane racers shift their own body weights considerably just by instinct. I used to hit the throttle, lean way out over the deck to get 'er planed off then scoot back in. In a Vking, you can drive from the left seat for a few seconds to check balance. When none of our observations pan out, we start with the bolt on crutches. (like tabs, foils etc)

It was noted that a cleaver style propeller could possibly solve this issue of too much bow lifting. I would like to think a simple off the shelf item like this could work. (KISS principal at work here) Who has tried this comparison and what are the results of the testing??? I have my reservations on surfacing style props for boats that often pull skiers & go for leisurely cruises, but I'll save that for later. I never see cleavers on normal boats around my place. Who runs cleavers on a regular basis? Anybody? We need education.

[transomstand]

:icon_bs:

Apparently your long years don't help you understand how these smart tabs work. If you been paying attention you'd realize that you can run 90 WITH OR WITHOUT THEM. If one breaks, what's the difference. They not touching the water anyway. They flat with the hull or higher before you hit 30 mph. VERIFIED FACT. Yes, they actually fold up higher than the hull plane. They do very little at high speeds except help get you there smoother & easier.

I broke mine off, AND knocked a giant hole in the gearcase too. MY HULL NEVER WENT THAT FAST TILL AFTER THE ACCIDENT. Broke off shocks and all So you can take your panic stricken end of the world warnings and stick it back in your panties, sell your boat and go back home to mama before you contaminate the open mind thinkers.
Now that's off my chest. :reddevil:

Understanding the REAL problem is half of the solution. Addressing the issues one at a time may be difficult for some, but I assure you using the shotgun approach is not the way to go. What "I" have learned from this board on theory is we need less bow lift from the prop.
These hulls are definitely light in the front.
We are backing the trim angles down once reaching race speeds to maintain control. Most props lift the bow too much which compounds the issue at the lower problematic speeds. Those running WFO all the time report less of a problem. This is understandable, they out of the zone most of the time. Those who don't need WFO but 1% of the time have concerns.

We want to be in control of the bow by using our power trims and jack plates after we balance our fore & aft weights out. Balancing is easy. Just having a friend crawl out on the deck and or move about the compartment will this will tell what needs doing. Alone? Small hydroplane racers shift their own body weights considerably just by instinct. I used to hit the throttle, lean way out over the deck to get 'er planed off then scoot back in. In a Vking, you can drive from the left seat for a few seconds to check balance. When none of our observations pan out, we start with the bolt on crutches. (like tabs, foils etc)

It was noted that a cleaver style propeller could possibly solve this issue of too much bow lifting. I would like to think a simple off the shelf item like this could work. (KISS principal at work here) Who has tried this comparison and what are the results of the testing??? I have my reservations on surfacing style props for boats that often pull skiers & go for leisurely cruises, but I'll save that for later. I never see cleavers on normal boats around my place. Who runs cleavers on a regular basis? Anybody? We need education.

Ok, I'll start a new thread tommorow:

NEED HELP!!! MY BOAT DRIVES ROCK SOLID AND DOESN'T CHINE WALK!!! SHOULD I INSTALL TABS TO MAKE IT STOP???:rolleyes:

[transomstand]

I broke mine off, AND knocked a giant hole in the gearcase too. MY HULL NEVER WENT THAT FAST TILL AFTER THE ACCIDENT. Broke off shocks and all So you can take your panic stricken end of the world warnings and stick it back in your panties, sell your boat and go back home to mama before you contaminate the open mind thinkers.


Obviously, your boat never went fast, get back to me when you crack 62 on your borrowed GPS

[samari]

Glad to hear this Bernie, I hope you will be using it rather than selling now. would you say it planes quicker now?

[oldskier]

Chet, No comparison. Pete (Transomstand) might not like to hear it, and his boat may run rock solid without porpoise or chine walk, but I bet he could improve hole shot with tabs.:eek:

Then he could be like me, the human throttle cable, and change his screen name to "Transomsit":D

[samari]

funny, I don't want to get into anything but I'm glad it worked for you and I will remember this in the future.

[oldskier]

In all seriousness guys, I KNOW THIS IS A CRUTCH. It worked for me. Kudos to those thousands of boats and drivers that don't need them and could make my boat stable without them. I hope we meet some day and you work your magic and I can throw away the crutches, but until then, don't hate me because I am mentally deficient. I am just pleased I can take my granddaughter for a fast boat ride.

Thanks, Bernie

[JWTjr.]

all these boats have something in common...they've been damaged (accident) or rebuilt (recored/transomed). It seems plausible that during the rebuild process something went wrong. I realize that those who've rebuilt hulls have gone to great lengths to ensure that the hull retained it's original shape during the process, but in these cases, perhaps that did not happen. Clearly something is wrong to make otherwise fine hulls perform badly when power is applied. I would be looking carefully at the running surfaces of these hulls and comparing them to others that are similar and of "known performance" (otherwise perform well).

John

[transomstand]

but I bet he could improve hole shot with tabs.:eek:


We tried them (fixed tabs) on our V-6 Vandal in 1981, they did help a bit launching the boat, but not a dramatic enough difference. We found we could pretty much accomplish the same thing with prop work.

I can improve my hole shot, but making passes for the camera at the Romp, I stayed with a 245 hp STV for the first 3-400 ft last year, which I found "acceptable".:D

It took 2 months work to replace my transom without removing the deck, it's highly unlikely I'll be drilling many holes in it soon.:D

[transomstand]

all these boats have something in common...they've been damaged (accident) or rebuilt (recored/transomed). It seems plausible that during the rebuild process something went wrong. I realize that those who've rebuilt hulls have gone to great lengths to ensure that the hull retained it's original shape during the process, but in these cases, perhaps that did not happen. Clearly something is wrong to make otherwise fine hulls perform badly when power is applied. I would be looking carefully at the running surfaces of these hulls and comparing them to others that are similar and of "known performance" (otherwise perform well).

John

I'm just a glutten for abuse, so I'll add another observation. The other common link I see in all these is inexperience. I'm sure some will be deeply offended, and trash me again, but it is true. The people who have had trouble, are new to the hull type, or just new to high performance boating.

[oldskier]

JWT and Pete, I think in my case and in Wizards, you may be right. I do not now or have I ever represented myself as anything other than a novice boat rebuilder. I learned a lot about resins and materials, and how to make them work together, but I know nothing about hydrodynamics or what makes a hull bottom work or not work. Wizard has gone as far as to use a laser to check the hull on his, but he has been clear that he did NOT rebuild it, it was done by a carpenter with an eye toward strength.

I had a PM from Scott at AFR suggesting putting a 1/4" high by 10" wide by 4" long 'lip' on the back of the strake where my tabs are. (Kinda like a SMALL built in tab).

I think he is right, I suspect the strakes outside of the pad should be hooked MINUTELY to prevent porpoising. Just didn't feel like derigging and flipping, rerigging and testing.

Pete, it sounds like your hole shot is FINE-THANK YOU! I was making a play on words, Transomstand-Transomsit...you know, like me sitting on the transom operating the throttle...get it?

John, I have not informed my wife yet:eek: but I may drag the boat to Jasper next month...if you are going to be there, I'd be tickled if you would take a look or even drive it and tell me what you think....

Bernie

[transomstand]

John, I have not informed my wife yet:eek: but I may drag the boat to Jasper next month.

Might want to get her in on that, before you announce it on the world wide web:D:D:D:D

[oldskier]

Might want to get her in on that, before you announce it on the world wide web:D:D:D:D


Thats why I said "MAY"....:confused: There are other factors including an on-call schedule at work that is still fuzzy. As far as the wife goes, I greased the skids pretty good two days ago on our 35th anniversary...bought her a new Chevy HHR.

[Riverman]

The other common link I see in all these is inexperience. Yeah, but what about me? I AM A NOOB. (There I said it LOL)

I redid mine without a jig, but did not split the deck. My hull remained straight during the process so blueprinting consisted of repairing and sharpening the strakes and pad. Also repairing the damaged caused by a rotten core on a roller trailer with the rollers missing. :D

What about setup? I run a radical setup compared to most - 5" setback, propshaft well above the pad and a 30 cleaver. I have ZERO issues with either porpoise or chine walk. Sure it will porpoise sometimes but trim, throttle or speed adjustments will stop it. I have a Mazco cone by the way.

Why is this? Was mine redone THAT much better than the tabbers? Is my setup so magically perfect that there are no issues?

[transomstand]

Yeah, but what about me? I AM A NOOB. (There I said it LOL)


Why is this? Was mine redone THAT much better than the tabbers? Is my setup so magically perfect that there are no issues?

It's because of the thick Canadian air, porpoising is only a problem in the thin U.S. air. It's a scientific fact..........you can look it up.:rolleyes::D:D

[Wizard]

1st off Bernie I am so happy to hear you tamed the beast. It's actually fun to drive now right? Next you'll be like me looking for more power. :thumbsup:

JWT I could not agree with you more. Like Bernie stated I inherited my rebuild from the previous owner. He did one heck of a job on strength. This thing is strong! Again I lasered the hull and for all intents and purposes it's straight as an arrow. Don't know what's wrong and frankly don't care anymore. Saturday I'll be putting a fresh 260 on it. The thing will be silly fun to drive and rediculously fast. I also feel alot more confident putting that kind of power on it with my tabs. Keep things in control.

Transomstand all I have to say is your arrogance is obnoxius. Your not the first net expert parroting BS. Unlike Bernie, I have been around the performance block for a few decades. Owned my share of 100mph boats and have set up literally hundreds of bassboats for guys all across the country. Your vast experience with your little stream seems to preclude your ability to think of anything else outside your experience. I came to this board for help because I was finally stumped. I got dozens of suggestions and tried them all to no avail. Can't remember getting anything from you except come to our gathering and you'll go home fixed. I asked you to put your money where your mouth is and you backed off. Your an internet dope if you ask me.

Wanna run for pink slips big mouth? I could use a Ventura for my collection. It would just suck for you to lose your boat to one with flippers! :rolleyes:

[oldskier]

Obammy need to have y'all boahs over to th' Whitehouse fer a beer or WHAT! Calm down a little and lets all go for a nice safe boat ride. I can come now....

[Wizard]

OK I'm sorry! Where's the beer! :cheers: :D

[Rigaud]

Yeah, but what about me? I AM A NOOB. (There I said it LOL)

I redid mine without a jig, but did not split the deck. My hull remained straight during the process so blueprinting consisted of repairing and sharpening the strakes and pad. Also repairing the damaged caused by a rotten core on a roller trailer with the rollers missing. :D

What about setup? I run a radical setup compared to most - 5" setback, propshaft well above the pad and a 30 cleaver. I have ZERO issues with either porpoise or chine walk. Sure it will porpoise sometimes but trim, throttle or speed adjustments will stop it. I have a Mazco cone by the way.

Why is this? Was mine redone THAT much better than the tabbers? Is my setup so magically perfect that there are no issues?

Jeff, I guess yours has good set up and balance. Your set up is not radical, just fine tuned. ;)

Been in Streams since 1991 and they all had some porpoising at some point but nothing that was horrible and very easy to correct. I have not ever seen tabs on a Stream myself but hey, if that helps then ok.

John

[transomstand]

Sorry you'll never get over my statement Wiz, you have serious issues that go far beyond your boat.

If it helps you work through your personality disorder, YOU WIN, YOU CAN BE BETTER THAN ME:thumbsup::thumbsup: I freely relinquish my "title" to you.:confused: You are the official setup king of Scream and Fly.:thumbsup::thumbsup: I'll pass the word on to Greg, and the other members.

P.S. My offer to Bernie still stands, because I never go back on my word.

[Wizard]

Your funny. I have the personality disorder. ;) Sure!

Since when does the greatest S&F set up guru ask for help? You recall the part where I posted for help beause I was stumped. If I recall correctly your answer was raise the motor. Sheer genius! ;)

Beer please! :cheers:

[transomstand]

Your funny. I have the personality disorder. ;) Sure!

Since when does the greatest S&F set up guru ask for help? You recall the part where I posted for help beause I was stumped. If I recall correctly your answer was raise the motor. Sheer genius! ;)

Beer please! :cheers:

If you recall?????????:confused:

Yes, your personality disorder requires you to make stuff up about me. For the record, I never responded to your setup thread.

So my WORTHLESS advice only existed in your all too vivid fantasy world.

[Wizard]

OK coming down off my pedestal now. Were both guilty of the arguing on the internet thing. Which means were either both retarded or have personality disorders. Personally I'll stick with the sybil thing for me. My wife knows I have OCD and I think my friends in my head will agree. :D

Truce?

[Riverratt]

I have a question about this trim tab thing. If the tabs are out of the water at 30 mph then how do they help the handling at high speed when they are not doing anything? Do they self adjust back down when you slow down?

[oldskier]

Personally I'll stick with the sybil thing for me. My wife knows I have OCD and I think my friends in my head will agree. :D



So then:

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I'm schizophrenic
And so am I....


There now all you guys (an gals?:eek:) in there, isn't that better?

I am not quite schizophrenic over this, but I am ambivalent...If the Wiz had never mentioned he was running these tabs, we would never have gotten in to this flustercluck....and I would still hate that yellow boat out there.....

[Wizard]

Thanks Bernie. I'm back on my meds now so I'm good to go! :D

Riverrat my tabs don't come out of the water till well over 60mph and I'm way up on the pad. Even then I suspect the tips may just be dragging enough to keep it steady and not chinewalk. It's amazing at how controllable it is. So maybe the small drag may be robbing me of a mph or two but that's what HP is for! :thumbsup:

When off the pad they are forcing the stern up. The faster you go the more the water pressure pushes them up out of the way. Funny thing is I can sill trim up hammer it and do a transomstand. :cool:

[oldskier]

I have a question about this trim tab thing. If the tabs are out of the water at 30 mph then how do they help the handling at high speed when they are not doing anything? Do they self adjust back down when you slow down?


Ratt, I had the SAME doubts, and asked the inventor and owner of Nauticus that VERY question. I wasn't sure I believed his answer until yesterday and I am sure no one who is vehemently against trim tabs on a speedboat will believe it either until they drive an ugly handling boat with them and without them.

He said, and I paraphrase, "there is enough spray coming off the pad and hitting the tabs in their full down position (25 degrees) to stabilize the boat at high speeds."

H#ll, I don't know, maybe there is a voodoo witch doctor dancing and shaking a shrunken head rattle somewhere to make it stabilize, but I invite you to check it out, I'll be glad to let ANYBODY that can point it between the shores drive it with the tabs, and anybody with v-pad experience to drive it without them and tell me what the deal is.

[Makinwaves]

I have a question about this trim tab thing. If the tabs are out of the water at 30 mph then how do they help the handling at high speed when they are not doing anything? Do they self adjust back down when you slow down?

The actuators are gas shocks. The tabs always try to stay in contact with the water. But their deflection angle changes as you pick up speed. The sweet spot on mine is between 24 to 28 mph. The water pressure is pushing them up. If you cross a wake they will go all the way up and bottom out like shocks on a car when you land, and act as a real shock absorber does. You can feel it. I've perched myself looking over the back and watched them do. On my big square ones, under 25 mph they down unless you turning, then one of them may go up helping the turn. You could build your own with the gas cylinders they use on car hoods and hatch backs, but that would be too long and throw the geometry off, but it's the same kind of gas shock.

John said he offers higher pressure actuators if I needed, but he didn't think so, and I don't either. I didn't have problems till my boat started going faster when I replaced the tired old V6 with an EFI V6 with a much bigger prop. I had to remount them out on the wings. All the scrapping on here is what led me to that discovery. :cheers: I don't think anybodys hulls were rebuilt wrong or too far off if any at all, but I do know that shaking things up and see what falls out sometimes is just what you need. I know it fired me up enough to get out there and do some testing and observations I might have not done otherwise.:thumbsup:

After doing a lot of research lately on Cleaver props thanks to tips from people on these forums, I'd be willing to wager that if a person ran a big no lift Cleaver on a problem hull, the porpus would likely almost disappear. When one comes along for the right price, I'll find out for sure. There aren't a lot of them on Ebay, and I'm not a fan of cavitation out of the hole.

[Makinwaves]

Yeah, but what about me? I AM A NOOB. (There I said it LOL)

I redid mine without a jig, but did not split the deck. My hull remained straight during the process so blueprinting consisted of repairing and sharpening the strakes and pad. Also repairing the damaged caused by a rotten core on a roller trailer with the rollers missing. :D

What about setup? I run a radical setup compared to most - 5" setback, propshaft well above the pad and a 30 cleaver. I have ZERO issues with either porpoise or chine walk. Sure it will porpoise sometimes but trim, throttle or speed adjustments will stop it. I have a Mazco cone by the way.

Why is this? Was mine redone THAT much better than the tabbers? Is my setup so magically perfect that there are no issues?

A CLEAVER PROP? My my. Zero bow lift.

[stokernick]

guess we need Greg to hang off the back[a la Helmut's prop pic] and document this amazing engineering feat with his camera genius!

[Rigaud]

A CLEAVER PROP? My my. Zero bow lift.

Look into Jeff's boat, he finally hit 80 mph with his and he's running a V-4. Must be doing something right ;)

[Wizard]

I guess Transomstand can't man up on my offer to Parley. Figures :rolleyes:

[transomstand]

Are you having another "event" ?

[Wizard]

Figures. :rolleyes:

[Riverman]

A CLEAVER PROP? My my. Zero bow lift.I also run a 26 and 30 chopper with zero issues. My my.

[Makinwaves]

RM, Aren't you bragging on a Viper? Why can't you be such a genius on a 17'+ Vking? I ran it with a 28 pitch chopper. It ran well, almost perfect. That's not the prop I care to use around here. You want it? Come get it. The blades are so thin and weak, it can't stand up to the beating it has to take where I like to go.
My engine is tuned for grunt. It doesn't need to rev like a chainsaw to get out the hole, and I've set the boat up to run super nice with off the shelf props. It does 0-60mph in just over 50 yards now, and tops out at 69 on my GPS with a basically stock 150.
I just got a new prop yesterday. a 27p X 14 5/8" Yamaha. I guess you'll start bashing that too. Judge not lest ye be judged. Walk a mile in my moccasins without ending up barefooted.
I took an old friend out for a spin 2 days ago in my Vking. (He owns a brand new NITRO). I let him drive it about 10 miles in the river. He did it all, stops, starts, turns, go slow, go fast, just about everything you'd need a boat to do. He's still talking about how well the Vking handles at every speed and looks good doing it. He loved not having to look around the bow when taking off. Guess what? He never used the trim at all. He left it in one position the whole time. I'd say my set up is pretty good. He wants me to do something with his NITRO.

[DoktorC]

The biggest issue here is you've got two VERY different perspectives...you've got guys like makinwaves that want to have the look and impression of a high performance boat but use it as a pleasure boat (quick flat planing, no chinewalk...easy to drive) vs. guys like transom, RM, JWT that spend time setting up the boat and learning to drive it in an all out, performance mindset.

If trim tabs let you enjoy your boat...have at it. If at some point in the future you have a change in focus you may find you don't need them anymore...or not. The guys that are trying to help you are just TRYING to help...it's become pretty clear you don't want their help and that should be repected. Bashing guys that are trying to help is uncalled for though....

Just my .02

[Wizard]

DocktorC if I had an nickel for every hour I spent setting up my boat I could buy you lunch. I tried everything this board could offer up and spent a crapload doing it.

Why can't everyone just agree that some hulls, for whatever, reason can't be made to stop porposing at midrange speeds. JWT did? He's right. Something was done when the previous owner rebuilt it to cause it to porpose uncontrollably from 30-50mph. Although I do like to drive it "all out" as you say I also like to cruise with the old lady.

Those smart enought to carefully read this post will notice that we are reporting the trim tabs have little to no effect at WOT. They make the boat plane quicker and handle better. Hmmmm everything you need in a drag boat. :cool:

So in a nutshell my perspective is no different than Transomturd, JWT or RM. I just could not find an answer with the best advice this board could give. The simple $200 trim tabs fixed it for good. Mounting my 260 tomorrow. I'll report on how fast it is...with the flippers down. :cheers:

[Makinwaves]

The biggest issue here is you've got two VERY different perspectives...you've got guys like makinwaves that want to have the look and impression of a high performance boat but use it as a pleasure boat (quick flat planing, no chinewalk...easy to drive) vs. guys like transom, RM, JWT that spend time setting up the boat and learning to drive it in an all out, performance mindset.

If trim tabs let you enjoy your boat...have at it. If at some point in the future you have a change in focus you may find you don't need them anymore...or not. The guys that are trying to help you are just TRYING to help...it's become pretty clear you don't want their help and that should be repected. Bashing guys that are trying to help is uncalled for though....

Just my .02

Well said.
In GOOGLE EARTH, type in Vermillion River Lafayette LA. You'll see it is maybe 120 feet wide. Out of that you might be able to use 1/2 of 50 feet of it because of docks, traffic, fishermen, river patrol etc. Heaven forbid you have to dodge a whole floating tree. Never a dull moment.
Heading south every turn is blind and short and mostly 180 degrees. There are no wake zones everywhere because it is prime real estate. Having a boat that gets on plane quick, handles, it quiet, and leaves little wake is what we need here. Especially if you stopped at the Honkey Tonk in Milton La. for a cold one before returning to port. A good boat that can hit 70 then dive into a 180 turn is good fun.

[oldskier]

Watching the other porpoising thread, (the one I TRIED to move the discussion here to let the thread owner find his own solution) I now find four of us who have had very positive results using Nauticus tabs. (That will ADMIT it here.) Wizard, Makinwaves, me and Brown.

OK, for all you guys who call us retarded.....what is the DISADVANTAGE, other than the sheer disgrace of giving up other setup methods?

And is there ANYBODY out there that has an experience with tabs that was NEGATIVE?

[LSaupe]

Has anyone worked with Jim Russels Pad V software? He claims to be able to slay the porpoise dragons.

http://www.aeromarineresearch.com/vbdp.html

[Jimboat]

LSaupe - hi Larry, I saw your post re: "porpoise analysis". Sorry that I didn't see your thread earlier.

The TBDP/VBDP software certainly helps understand the performance of a hull design by presenting the hull's susceptability to porpoising. Changes to the design and/or setup can be compared to see the affect on susceptibility to porpoise - whether the hull is operating in the "Porpoise Regime".

http://www.aeromarineresearch.com/tbdp6/porpoise_scrn.jpg

Porpoising is a complex beast, though, as you know. So I can't claim to "slay the dragon"....but our new analysis methods can at least help us understand where a hull design will fit in, and what helps and what won't help a porpoising situation.

...more on TBDP/VBDP Porpoise Analysis (http://www.aeromarineresearch.com/tbdp6/porpoise.html).

Call anytime if you want to talk about porpoising, Larry.

[roadkill636]

Bringing this ol thread back up. I too have spent almost 2 years tring everything to get rid of the porposing in my Viking . It pourposes before it even gets on plane. Yes even when plowing to get up it is pourposes. Ans does it all the way till 55 or 60 when it gets up on the pad. Many many diffrent props and weight distrabution. So i got the exact same tabs as wizard and hope they turn my boat into something that is enjoyable to ride in.

[XstreamVking]

It's all about bottom shape. Rocker is gonna porpoise. Hook pushes the nose down. Tabs will help kill the porpoise some. Just be very careful crossing any wakes when over taking another boat. That maneuver could upset the boat with those tabs mounted on the "wings".