How Much should a Tech Know ??

[olmo40]

I built a roughie 2L motor for my son out of spare parts as is first adult motor .His best buddy is a 2nd year Tech at a dealership .The motor is on its last legs so i asked the boys to check compression and do a leak down test?His Buddy says whats a leak down test ? so i show them ,all nos are bad . So i say strip the sucker and we will have a look and formulate "Plan B " Again i have never stripped a motor ,I only service fishing motors ?WTF. Over 50% of this way to becoming a Certified Tech and never pulled any motor or gear box ?? He says only the older more experienced guys do that .My question is ,is this normal in the industry today ? As i stripped the motor and gear box this kid (18) stood there and watched a fairly simple job in awe? We havent even measured anything or contemplated a rebuild and this poor kids head is spinning .
Am i over reacting or do you guys think this is a one off ,IMO "Bad situation"

[mach351]

Unfortunatley it's the wave of the future - cars, boats, everything. People aren't taught to fix things anymore, just "swap 'em out" with a remanufactured unit. I've got a buddy who wanted to get his trans rebuilt in his truck - he had a really hard time finding a shop to rebuild "his" trans - everyone just wanted to swap in a new one. I realize it's quicker and time is money, but the end result is that you have merc "techs" who wouldn't know a connecting rod if you threw it at thier head!

[Dave S]

Have been fixin and buildin motors from 1967 when I got my first boat.....never went to school for it.:o But have done fine. BUT don't know the finner aspexs of EFI or OPIbooms.:rolleyes: Leak down and comp test is Not in my life a THING. They help but not to critical. 15 per off is nuff to run. Carbs clogged or EFI screwwed is more of an isssue. Its ALL junk.:rolleyes:

[AwesomeBullet]

See it all the time in the auto field....tech students coming in that know how to operate a scan tool, do diagnostic tests, but can't identify a water leak if I was spraying them with a garden hose...:nonod: If their scan tool doesn't point them in the right direction they are lost as can be....

[dwvaughn]

See it all the time in the auto field....tech students coming in that know how to operate a scan tool, do diagnostic tests, but can't identify a water leak if I was spraying them with a garden hose...:nonod: If their scan tool doesn't point them in the right direction they are lost as can be....

+1:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

[1BadAction]

See it all the time in the auto field....tech students coming in that know how to operate a scan tool, do diagnostic tests, but can't identify a water leak if I was spraying them with a garden hose...:nonod: If their scan tool doesn't point them in the right direction they are lost as can be....
:D:D:cheers:

"whats a PCV do?" :nonod:

[lckytrbl]

tech school is just that.its books,and lectures,any hands on will be on a donated component that has no wear or other field service issues.hopefully they learn some basic terminology and safety knowledge.after school its up to them,either learn on a job or at their family and friends expense.i regularly say"mechanical things are like women,in real life they differ greatly from the ones in books,magazines,and television.and not all of them can be repaired or even adjusted.plenty only get thrown away."

[samari]

We had a guy that had just graduated from a local tech school for marine mechanics work for us for about 1 week. His first job was wheel bearings, he tightened the spindle nut with a impact and couldn't figure out why the wheels were locked up when he tried to pull it out of the shop. After a couple more mistakes he was down the road.

I agree most kids don't spend time in the garage and learn the fundamentals. I was a motorcycle tech for 10 years. I started at 16 in a small shop and learned the basics before I went to tech school. I have been working on boats at dealers for 4 years and it still amazes me what the younger guys don't know.

[Jacob]

Ok, I'm 28 and I have not been employed as a technician for over 4 years. I was ASE and BMW master certified, I let them expire when I decided to change career paths. I began working in a local Auto Repair shop when I was 15. I was lucky to land that job and work with a VERY experinced guy who didn't mind teaching me. I went to UTI for 2 years and learned that formal teaching is just that. 90% of the students thought it looked cool on the commercial, enter the school clueless and leave confused. I watched the new graduates come through the dealerships and the Senior Techs would "feel them out". If the new guy wasn't a smart ass and would listen and want to learn, they would teach them to REPAIR things. If they acted like some little punk they would end up flagging 20 hours a week on reflashes.
While going to UTI I was hired by a marine repair/ fiberglass shop. Everything I learned working on cars transfered to boats. I worked for a great guy that taught me BUTT LOADS about outboard repair, boat building,fiberglass repair, and all kind of other cool stuff. SO... the younger generation of REAL repair guys isn't gone, just hindered by the younger generations bad attitude IMO. I now work in the construction field but keep up with all the boating stuff on here. This site can teach that young tech alot if he'll read through the tech forum. I have learned ALOT just from reading through the archives. Well there's my $.02

Oh yea, a good tech is only as good as he allows himself to be. If the young guy is afraid to tear into and engine and rebuild it , HE NEVER WILL. Tell that young guy not be be afraid, tear things down and figure out how to fix them :thumbsup:

[Wingnut0302]

I totally agree,when I was younger I wanted to go to a Tech. school and pay boat loads of money doing so,An older friend of mine said pay me and I will teach you what you need to know....I started watching him and learning lots of good stuff about boats,cars,etc... now I'm the highest paid Tech in my shop at only 27 years old.I've worked at auto dealerships and been the blacksheep that only did oil changes and reflashes and now only 5 years later I'm making more money then the senior techs are.Nothing beats hands on,tear into it and see how it ticks training!!!!Save your money and watch and learn!

[samari]

Well put Jacob.

[Li'l Toy]

Real world vs education.

I am at Case Western University open house, as a potential engineering school for my son. At a group thing for the engineering department, a mom asks "what kind of computer should my son bring?"

Ex astronaut who heads the department says I don't really care about computers--I wish I could go down my street, collect al of the broken lawnmowers, and require all the first year mecanical engineers to pair off, take a mower, tear it all the way down and rebuild it. I loved it.

Then my son is doing an internship at Motorola. They need a simple test to locate where there is room to put anoher screw to hold a cellphone together. Take it down to the machine shop, put it on a drill press, drill a hole through it "here" and see wha's in the way. Matt knew how--bunch of engineers didn't.

[props4u2]

The marine institutes are a joke in my opinion. I will not hire anyone just because they say they're certified by one of the big name college's. I'd rather have someone that's been in the field and send them to Mercury schools if I feel they're quilified. I personally went to Mercury tech schools which are very informative but you still have to have the ability and hands on experience for it to do you any good. We did tear down engines and gearcase's and had to shim a lower unit gear set along with diagnose several problem engines as part of the certifacation test. If you couldn't perform all the tasks you didn't get certified. A true tech in my opinion is someone that has years of experience in the field, is willing to learn and does learn something new most every day, not just having a piece of paper saying you are certified. What I'm trying to say is that there is nothing like hands on experience with a good tech that is willing to teach, which most are if you are willing to listen and learn. Like someone else said, it is a throw away world now, no use in a major rebuild just replace it is what everyone wants to do. I'm still old school and want to fix everything. Like Awesome Bullet stated, everyone thinks all you have to do is hook a computer to it and whala it tells you how to fix everything, wrong there's still a piece of machinery under all those sensors,wiring and computers.


Lee

[gfinch]

First one needs to see with their fingers and their mind. First test should be. In one hand place a bolt, nut, flat washer and a lock washer. Instructions are in this order. Place first lock washer, flat washer then the nut on the bolt and tighten it finger tight. Behind your back. Your choice of which hand first then do it with the other hand also.

I was lucky to go to a trade school. Two year state junior college. LATTC, Los Angeles Trade Technical College. First year was 4 hrs in class room 5 days a week. In auto trans class you tore down and reassembled 4 different makes of tramsmissions and then gave the power flow of them through each gear verbaly to the instructor. Second year 2 hour class and two hour shop where we worked on peoples cars, they paid for parts we did the learning. Also had to take the rest of the courses, English,History etc.. and since I was under 21 I had to take PE also.
Bakery, Motor cycle, Truck, plumbing, carpentry built a house on campus then sold it each year, electrician and more.

[Dave Strong]

See it all the time in the auto field....tech students coming in that know how to operate a scan tool, do diagnostic tests, but can't identify a water leak if I was spraying them with a garden hose...:nonod: If their scan tool doesn't point them in the right direction they are lost as can be....

:iagree::iagree:
JMO but the new younger techs alot of them have piss poor atitudes as well. Want every thing easy, all afraid of a little work or reading the forking manual. Seems its easy to just ask, less work or thinking involved. Seem no one take any pride in what they do anymore.

Used to be a shop forman at a GM Dealership, the thing that drove me nuts was when asked, how do you----? My first question was whats the manual say. The usuall response was, don't know. My response was read the manual give it a shot if your still having trouble come get me.
Used to tell em god didn't wave a magic wand over me and put all the knowlege I have in my head. I learned by reading and screwed up a lot of stuff. But you learn best by doing it on your own, but sometimes you screw up, always learn something.

I could go on forever about this stuff, but will say since my first apprentice in 81 till now I have only had 5 that were any good.
Dave

[olmo40]

Im glad its not just me then ,But it gets worse ,off topic a bit , but his other buddy from the Porsche dealership who is a 3rd year says, Any mechanical problem in a motor or gear box gets sent back to the factory for repair or replacement .They only diagnose by computer and service .UG.

[props4u2]

The future is very scary in many ways!!!!!!!! :cheers:


Lee

[Jacob]

Im glad its not just me then ,But it gets worse ,off topic a bit , but his other buddy from the Porsche dealership who is a 3rd year says, Any mechanical problem in a motor or gear box gets sent back to the factory for repair or replacement .They only diagnose by computer and service .UG.

Olmo, he's right about the " swap out policy". If he went through porsche's program they taught him all he would need to know to diagnose and repair the units also. I went through the BMW STEP program. Seven month. 5 days a week, 7 hours a day, nothing but BMW training. I learned a ********!!!! I could diagnose and repair anything on any BMW when I got out. BUT DID I???? NO. you have a diagnostic chart to go by when doing most warranty work. 99% of the time the repair procedure is...... REPLACE. No replace ring and pinion, no replace 2-3 clutch pack, hell they did't even allow you to replace th nylon bushing at the end of the standard trans shifter. Yet on a "inspection II" for a late model M5 you reset the valve lash through a pretty precise and intense process. Not all techs can do this of course, but it's all about what the technician decides he can do. I made serious cash on customer pay jobs when our service writer told them; BMW suggest replacing but my technician can teardown a replace all bad components and save you $2300.00. It was great for me because I could get a little "GRAVY" and save the customer $$$$. Repair procedures REALLY need to be put back into the repair policies of maufacturers. To me it makes good $$$$$$$$ sense.

[Dave Strong]

Jacob it must suck road testing M5's HA HA Lucky bugger.
DAVE

[Jacob]

Jacob it must suck road testing M5's HA HA Lucky bugger.
DAVE

YEA!!! It would really suck when you would do a PDI (Pre-delivery Inspection) on an M5. they are shipped with a 3500rpm rev limiter( My memory sucks 3500 I think) and we would be required to reprogram with the factory spec rev limiter and then test to ensure the rev limiter worked.......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....... Damn I miss that part!!!! It was a really fun job!!! I guess I got out at the right time though. :thumbsup:

[Dave Strong]

YEA!!! It would really suck when you would do a PDI (Pre-delivery Inspection) on an M5. they are shipped with a 3500rpm rev limiter( My memory sucks 3500 I think) and we would be required to reprogram with the factory spec rev limiter and then test to ensure the rev limiter worked.......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....... Damn I miss that part!!!! It was a really fun job!!! I guess I got out at the right time though. :thumbsup:

Left GM in 2000 from what I here it was the right time. Miss PDI's my last one was a Corvette rag top, recall 3 of us doing a remake of Days of Thunder in Lumina's HA HA. If they only knew what went on in the first 15 k
Dave

[olmo40]

All these kids live for boating and come from very stable family environments. My concern in this case, is the basics they arent being taught .,I agree with Dave the leak down test in most shops probably isnt the most important thing to know ,Let alone what type of loktight to use on a reed screw or time an engine .:confused:

[Stig]

Not to get too political but this is what is wrong with our society. We put such an emphasis on being college educated that our whole infrastructure suffers.

About 2 generations ago we had people who wanted to learn a skill and even had to apprentice to get that skill. Plumbers and electricians still do this thank god! But look at how many contractors, tilers, and brick layers we have that you'd actually recommend to a friend. It seems like all the trades are now filled with the kids that didn't make the cut to get into college. I'm not calling them idiots either, I work at a very hard to get into college and trust me... I wonder all the time how some of them got in.

Our country needs an educational restructure, trade schools should run apprentice programs that should be accredited and count as college degrees. I don't even think I will push the whole college thing on my kid, I think there is more money in being great at a trade that has no competition. If I knew one contractor that didn't rip people off, fail to show up, or deliver on time... he'd be a multimillionaire in no time. Sounds better than the kid with 100k in loans for a business degree being a 30k a year copy machine operator :)

The market is flooded with new degree holders looking for jobs!

[MJ POWERSPORTZ]

i own a shop here in northern minnesota, im 29 and i started with boats and snowmobiles at 9. i learned on my own , no school noone to show me tricks, 2 strokes are so simple its stupid.. first enine i rebuilt was a 9.9 evinrude for my neighbor and guess what it stills runs today, i was 12 at the time...

[Mr.Rude]

It's the same in auto parts stores also. Walk in with a part for a project that you are building, They dont have a clue. If it aint on that computer screen or off of a 4cyl Civic... YOU CAN FORGET IT!
Most places have discovered that only people that they can hire dont know crap about anything anyhow, so replacing is thier only option. They can't afford to pay the good people or many man hours of labor for the newbie to figure it out just to get it wrong! They still end up loosing money on the job when it said and done and replacing the "repaired" part anyway.
IMHO... it all goes back to the fathers of these kid not taking time with them. I can't count the number of times my dad would be working on something and it being an unspoken rule that I would be right thier with him, hands on, helping each other on how to do the task. I realise that not every father knows how to do mechanical or physical projects, but not getting your kid out of the house,off the coach and just letting them sit in front of a TV or computer all day sure as he!! aint gonna get them anywhere!!!

[josh7_78]

It's the same in auto parts stores also. Walk in with a part for a project that you are building, They dont have a clue. If it aint on that computer screen or off of a 4cyl Civic... YOU CAN FORGET IT!
Most places have discovered that only people that they can hire dont know crap about anything anyhow, so replacing is thier only option. They can't afford to pay the good people or many man hours of labor for the newbie to figure it out just to get it wrong! They still end up loosing money on the job when it said and done and replacing the "repaired" part anyway.
IMHO... it all goes back to the fathers of these kid not taking time with them. I can't count the number of times my dad would be working on something and it being an unspoken rule that I would be right thier with him, hands on, helping each other on how to do the task. I realise that not every father knows how to do mechanical or physical projects, but not getting your kid out of the house,off the coach and just letting them sit in front of a TV or computer all day sure as he!! aint gonna get them anywhere!!!

:iagree:Everybody seems to have the same opinion on this thread for the most part and so do I. I'm in my second year of college as a mechanical engineer major, but I still feel you can't learn more about something when your working on it with your own hands. I have quite a variety of engineering classes and most of them involve computer and paper work. I'm not too far into school, but I can say that I personally have learned more from working on and repairing my own stuff. I think the university programs are great for advancing and creating technology, but I feel like someone would need to know a lot about what they were working on in the first place to use this knowledge to their advantage. I am hoping that my next few years of school can help me learn more about how to work on and repair things that I know about better. After being in the engineering programs for a year or more I don't think I would solely depend on the program to set my future. Just my .02.

[Charger200]

The future is very scary in many ways!!!!!!!! :cheers:


Lee

Not necissarily Lee.

For all the pidgeon holeing that goes on in the trades there are still the lucky few that come out the other end with more knowledge both hands on and praticle then most older tradesmen can believe.

I have worked with lots of guys (plumbers,pipefitter,electric chickens, welders, carpenters) that go through school and become certified only because they were boook smart enough to get the passing grade. But on the job they were stuck doin one thing and dont have a clue about 90% of the trade.

Then there are the VERY few like 1 in 20 (myself included:cool:) Get 75% of their knowledge on the job hands on, are allowed to get dirty and tackle tougher jobs. If my Journey man had never installed something then he would grab me and we would do it together. I was lucky to be a right hand man to our companys 3 foreman on many large sites. Because of this i went through trade school with a 87% average without ever studyin or doin homework outside of school.

Trade School doesnt teach you chit.

And we cant rely on 5% of the tradesman to teach the other 95% after they are already certified

[Jeff_G]

Part of the problem is so many are just plain lazy. I've been in the marine business going on 34 years now. I think all of us in some way should give back. One of the things I do is try to answer questions in the tech forums.
How many times have we seen someone ask the same exact question someone else asked the week before. They won't even use the search feature. More than 50% of all questions have been asked and answered before, multiple times. And this by the general public, techs are just as bad.
Then there are those who have no clue how the engine/ ignition etc, even operates, yet there they are teaching the gospel. Unfortunately some are very popular and you don't dare question their expertise. But that's going in another direction.
We here in the States no longer have a desire to work on things mechanically. Many "techs" in the field only are in it because they got hired as a helper or failed in another field. Can't tell you how many start their own business, or represent themselves as techs that have no clue.
Part of the problem is squarely in the laps of the dealerships and the manufacturers. Many dealerships won't send their techs to school because they don't want the expense, are afraid the tech will want more money when they return or will leave with the higher certification. Unfortunately to a certain extent all three are true. For the most part a good tech in the marine field is grossly underpaid, and the dealers are surprised when the turnover is high.
We can beat this with a dead horse but 90% of you are dead on right when you speak of techs not knowing what they are doing, they have become parts changers, and not very good ones at that!

[olmo40]

I never worked in a dealership or went to college ,i learnt in the field for many years ,The scary thing is 2 Strokes are simple and the 4 strokes well i dunno i have 2 so far so good. Being semi retired i think the future will be, when guys like JeffG and DaveS for example knock a hook in the wall to hang up the shingle and retire , the line up will continue to their door for people sayin just one more job please .The problem is world wide in Australia i have a mate who sometimes has to wait 2-3 months for the "senior tech" to look at his motor for anything more than a service.My son isnt going to college he is starting an apprentice ship as a carpenter next year .

[Dave S]

Hey Jeff whats a search feature????? more funn asking you again and again.;) I useta build them the best I could. They blew up.....the hose on the bobs nose cone washed off. We fixed that by welding on pipes.:thumbsup: But not wanting to wast a nudda good block used one with bores out of round .020. Took my handy piston/cut in havle and wedge/ Hammer.;) Bore back to specks.:smiletest: Has some flaking of chrome in other bores, Flappy wheel to the resque.:) Guy claimes it's the best one yet.:cheers: Used C clips, rings, bearings, and head gaskets. Crank had Breneiling on a rod throw so I made sure to use big rods so it will cut up the block good.:cheers: He asks how long will it last.......when the fuse gets close run.:rolleyes: 6 cly pipe bomb.

[Jacob]

Well I went to Louisiana State University for 2.5 years for construction Management before I went to UTI for 2 years for the Mechanical curriculum , then BMW STEP step for seven months. I just finished 2 years of night classes for project management at a specialized school for the construction field. Through all of that schooling I've learned one thing, YOU WILL ONLY LEARN IF YOU WANT TO LEARN. When I was at LSU I carried a 2.5-3.0GPA...... I was into the partying not the classes. When I went to UTI I never cracked a book and maintained a 4.0 GPA. At UTI I would correct the instructors on MANY occasions. They really didn't like a 19-21 year old correcting them. Before I was 21 I was Master Certified by ASE. If I would have depended on some school to accomplish these things for me I would still be waiting. In my opinion schooling only refines the knoledge you already have. Without initiative to go out an do your own reasearch and try to learn as much as you can about something you will never master anything. I totally agree with MR. RUDE about the Father's being involved. My son is 18 months old and is always under the truck with me when I'm tinkering. We were at the hardware store this morning "playing ". My Father did as much of this with me as he could also. But, you can't blame the young guys who had Fathers who didn't spend time with them. If a young guy is polite and willing to learn I will go out of my way to teach him everything I know. I feel if your passionate about a sport like boating the only way to keep it alive is pass on as much as you can to as many people as you can. Well sorry if I got long winded but this subject always fires me up.

[hydrostream1]

I`m fortunate to have had a father that spent time with me teaching me,the basics of engines,anything mechanical,he always was tinkering in the basement or making something out of nothing,as a kid of the seventies,i would watch and learn,we didn`t have the electronic gadgets to distract us,we were good to have a color tv with three channels!I spent alot of time in that basement doing the same things he did.I was an auto tech 18 years,I saw years ago where the field of auto mechanics was heading working for a dealer or independent,IN THE CRAPPER!I got fed up and started working for myself in the marine industry,which I had some earlier experience with,to make a long story short I am now a cruisair,marine air dealer,I specialize in hvac on boats,and really like it.My father was an hvac,propane,natural gas,field tech for 30 plus years,I wished that I had followed in his foot steps along time ago.He taught me the basics and never forgot how to use that,under all of the high tech engineering we have now,just remember the internal combustion engine still ,has to have spark,fuel ,compression,and timed right to fire.I only use a DDT or laptop as a diagnostic aid but I don`t depend on it.There are still things that a computer doesn`t see.I must admit I see alot of parts changers out there,it amazes me in this world people think you have to be certified to work on anything,you can`t just go in there and learn,I understand that you need some initial training but you can`t replace experience period.

[MattGreen]

I'm not that old (32) but most people my age and younger grew up playing video games instead of tinkering in the garage. And in my area, high schools were closing automotive, metalworking, electrical, and some woodworking shops due to low demand, space constraints, and liability concerns.

Not exactly a stellar pool of candidates for trade schools to draw upon.

Matt

[18ftswitzer]

I have been a working as a mechanic for over 7 years, and have never been to school. I am mainly self taught, with some help from my dad. The main reason I taught myself is because I lived with my mom and niether of us had the money to pay somebody to fix my toys. I was a little worried about tearing stuff apart because I feared breaking something and having to pay for it. I broke my fair share of things teaching myself but it was worth it.

When it comes to schools for mechanics, I think they are for people who have no experiance at all. They teach you the basics, definatly not certifiable. A friend of mine went to MMI, and a year after he was done with school and had not gotten a job in the field he came to my house for me to test his "coil", it was a started solenoid!

[donmac]

I was lucky enough to start my career in a high performance boat shop working on offshores and roundy rounds. The fact is I wouldn't have had a chance if I hadn't had some one teaching me as I went along.Apprenticeships are great if you are actually doing the work with someone who is on top of his game and actually cares about the quality of work being produced. I was trained by David Elsey who is as far as I'm concerned one of the best performance boat riggers of all time. Thanks David.

[Dave S]

I have not been trained.......just look and think and do.:rolleyes: But ya can't look at a high teck motor and see. The systems are hideing.:leaving:

[Dave Strong]

I was lucky enough to start my career in a high performance boat shop working on offshores and roundy rounds. The fact is I wouldn't have had a chance if I hadn't had some one teaching me as I went along.Apprenticeships are great if you are actually doing the work with someone who is on top of his game and actually cares about the quality of work being produced. I was trained by David Elsey who is as far as I'm concerned one of the best performance boat riggers of all time. Thanks David.

I thought thats how an apprenticeship is supposed to work, work on what you learn in 1st year. Go to 2nd year then work on what you learned until 3rd etc. Alot of the problem is with the employers, apprentice takes to long to do the job. They make more$$$ if it goes to the more seasoned tech. Problem is the apprentice gets screwed, how can he get good at any thing without doing it?
Dave

[powerabout]

I'm all for the apprenticeship ( 4 years in OZ) system plus factory training as that is the education I had.
It was easy for the Marina where I worked as Merc headquarters was 15 min away and OMC's state headquarters 30min.
All the workshop staff had training each year and even our contractors were allowed to attend with our blessing.
The difference it made being trained by the guys that made the stuff was night and day.
One line that we were quiet big in was doing w/tee work which made good money for us.
When you told the factory white is black they would say OK we know you know what you are doing.

All the dealers who you never met at service schools were the ones always complaining about w/tee is a big looser.
I also noticed they always had to send the w/tee parts back before being paid??
I remember at one national dealer meeting many dealers complaining about w/tee work. The National service mananger ( Graham Henniker) was pissed off and said ok hands up all the OMC master technicians ( an OMC qualification by exam in OZ) about 4 guys including me put up our hands and were asked if we had trouble with w/tee and we all said no.
( the exam was tough and had about a 20% pass rate)

The other problem with apprentices I had was when you had a star and he won a few awards at trade school the car dealers would offer them huge money.
The reason they can do this is because the dealer model is based on servicing new cars with the 150 point check list etc which takes 5 minutes and the owner thinks it takes all day so the resulting hourly rate earnt is huge.
Boats are like planes, no shortcuts and each job needs to take as long as it does if you do the job correctly, so you only earn by the hour.
No big money fixing planes either.
I got out after 13 years but still miss it.

[Jeff_G]

Learning on the job is great. You actually learn how to use the tools you will be using, how to turn a wrench, don't laugh, as well as how to fix some of the real world problems that never show in one or two year old engines.
Many dealers won't take in older engines just because of the time and knowledge it does take to repair them.
But at the same time don't knock trade schools and factory service schools. There is a huge amount of information out there, and with the complexities of todays engines you need this information.
What kind of technician you are or will be is directly related to the effort you put in. You need to learn the theory of why something works to properly diagnose it. If all you do is one thing on one type of engine, maybe you can get by. Anyone with a little training can rebuild a 2.5 shortblock. It take a tech who knows what he is doing to diagnose the failure and fix it so it doesn't happen again.
If one really wants to succeed in this field it will take years of "apprenticeship" under the direction of a good shop and many days in the classroom. There are also aftermarket programs like what is offered by AMTEC that can bring you up to speed.
Unfortunately the pay offered by most dealerships is sub standard to what you can make as an automobile tech, so we lose many to that side.
Basically what it takes is desire.

[donmac]

Jeff G. you hit the nail on the head. You know your going to come home with a small paycheck for years,until you build a reputation and a customer base then you can be recognized by your boss and rewarded or start out on your own and receive the money you earned for years of experience and dedication.

[Wingnut0302]

I also agree with that statement...I'm from the automotive field and factory training is a must but I still think hands on learning from the beginning is the most important.I learned the the fundamentals from hands on and the advanced from on going factory schooling and seminars classes...But if you just want to go to a trade school and have no previous background in automotive and marine basics then in my opinion its a waste of time and money.Some of the seminars are at the local tech. school and you should see some of these people that go to trade schools I would not want them anywhere a car of mine

[Dave S]

Jeff ya rite..... any one can build a 2.5 etall. but stay together? ya gottta know how all thing work..... easy..... till ya mix efi, cdms, ecm, and the fuel pump.:rolleyes: I like carbs.;)