What do yall think ?

[tx2step]

What do yall think of a boat builder that misleads the public?I was recently involved in the purchase of a 22 Cat hull that was sold as a 1300# hull and it turns out that it weighs over 1600#s.The boat builder told me the reason that I couldn't get expected speeds from it was because my motor was worn out.Well since then I've been told it was a one of modified overweight cap and that it was sold to the previous owner that way and he didn't disclose this info to me.I have since done research and found that said builder lists the weights of these hulls at 1200# on NADA.Beware that SCB boats are not what they say!The builder has stated on Scream and Fly on other post that all these hulls weigh at a minimum of 1600#s so why does he tell NADA that they are lighter?I have had numerus posts here on this site bashed by him and his followers that make me out to be a troll or trouble maker.

[qctracing]

That sucks did you buy it new?

[Liqui-Fly]

Do manufacturers hull weights have to be within a certain %, are they bare hull weights, and do they include interior? It is imprtant to know the rules before claiming someone is cheating.

[motexas]

I can tell you one thing, Carl (TX2STEP) knows what he is talking about and would not bring this up if it did not need to be said.

Thanks

[Raceman]

I don't know the builder or the boat involved, BUT I don't believe a 300 lb weight difference on a 22 foot cat would make a substantial enough difference in top end to make it appear the engine is worn out. Usually weight differences such as this make a lot more difference in acceleration than in top end numbers.

[fastdonzi.]

If it's a race boat/ Drag Boat then the 300# hurts a little. for a weekend screamer where Time from A to B doesn't matter just tap the trim button one more time.

As for the builder- If he states/Claims a certain weight then he surely should build what he says. If you bought a boat that was supposed to weigh XXXX and you and he agreed upon that, then bring it back- wouldn't he be Pi$$ed if your check was XXXX Short???? :D

[tx2step]

Thanks for the replys.

[300x Stoker]

Carl a Troll or Trouble maker??? I thought he was just a guy that liked fast fishing boats and would like to be treated as well as he treats people. Only bought a prop from him but got the impression he wanted the best and was willing to pay for it?? :confused:

Glad we have people like him on S&F to keep us informed about what the real deal is! :cool:

[mha]

http://simmonscustomboats.net/sg_models_media/Specs.pdf


Length:
21'10"
Beam:
93"
Hull Weight:
1300 lbs.



http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-24-38-5694-0-0-0&l=1&w=24&p=38&f=5697&m=1397&y=2009&ml=S&gc=MR&gtc=MR&d=1600268433

Length: 22'
Model Name/Description: TOPCAT/LT
Boat Type: Outboard Boats
Hull Material: Fiberglass
Beam: 7' 9"
Engine: N/A
Net Weight: 1300





Your buddy's copper 2008 Topcat bare hull weighed in 1630#.


I just can't help but wonder how your pal (or any Bullet buyer) would react if they brought home their shiny new yellow XD only to find out they were the proud owner of a 1630# Bullet.

What's the difference? I guess SCB buyers have less of a right to be interested in weight than Bullet buyers.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a beautiful 1600# boat.
......unless it's marketed as a 1300# boat.

[Murry]

I bought a boat, motor and trailer from Carl and found everything just as he said it was. It was a good experience and he was honest and informative in every respect. He is one of the good guys.

[tx2step]

http://simmonscustomboats.net/sg_models_media/Specs.pdf


Length:
21'10"
Beam:
93"
Hull Weight:
1300 lbs.



http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-24-38-5694-0-0-0&l=1&w=24&p=38&f=5697&m=1397&y=2009&ml=S&gc=MR&gtc=MR&d=1600268433

Length: 22'
Model Name/Description: TOPCAT/LT
Boat Type: Outboard Boats
Hull Material: Fiberglass
Beam: 7' 9"
Engine: N/A
Net Weight: 1300





I just can't help but wonder how your pal (or any Bullet buyer) would react if they brought home their shiny new yellow XD only to find out they were the proud owner of a 1630# Bullet.

What's the difference? I guess SCB buyers have less of a right to be interested in weight than Bullet buyers.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a beautiful 1600# boat.
......unless it's marketed as a 1300# boat.

I'm glad I aint the only one that noticed!This guy is without a doubt a teller of untruths!

[jlay]

I very rarely post here but this guy just wont let it die. The only thing he is leaving out is he bought the boat USED. The hull that he bought was a prototype for a new deck. The original buyer new this and purchased it that way. Maybe the seller did not disclose it to him, but it is not the boat builders fault. I have three friends with SCB's and by far they are the best built and rigged boats i have ever seen. Not to mention the are all custom one off boats. They all have different options that i am sure add to the weight. I probably should not have posted this because all it is going to do is let this guy keep b*tching about it like the other thread. STFU!

[wideglide55]

If it won't run like you want add some power.

[SANTAFE]

A B-52 pilot once told me that you could make a brick fly if you put enough motor on it.

[tx2step]

I very rarely post here but this guy just wont let it die. The only thing he is leaving out is he bought the boat USED. The hull that he bought was a prototype for a new deck. The original buyer new this and purchased it that way. Maybe the seller did not disclose it to him, but it is not the boat builders fault. I have three friends with SCB's and by far they are the best built and rigged boats i have ever seen. Not to mention the are all custom one off boats. They all have different options that i am sure add to the weight. I probably should not have posted this because all it is going to do is let this guy keep b*tching about it like the other thread. STFU!

Eric (SCB Factory)posted that his sleds weighs at a minimum of 1600#s and his website states clearly 1300#s,so you tell me whose full of it!He also lists it in NADA to weigh 1300#s so I'm full of it right!Just face it Bud,he lied to you also!Just because you won't believe it makes you the fool!Peace Out!:icon_bs:

[mha]

I very rarely post here but this guy just wont let it die. The only thing he is leaving out is he bought the boat USED. The hull that he bought was a prototype for a new deck. The original buyer new this and purchased it that way. Maybe the seller did not disclose it to him, but it is not the boat builders fault. I have three friends with SCB's and by far they are the best built and rigged boats i have ever seen. Not to mention the are all custom one off boats. They all have different options that i am sure add to the weight. I probably should not have posted this because all it is going to do is let this guy keep b*tching about it like the other thread. STFU!

With all sincerity I would ask that you go back and re-read the thread with a different mindset. Carl doesn't start this love fest. He doesn't even bring it up. On page 5 post 74 he merely quotes someone else who asks the question about weight. If Carl had really wanted to initaite and press an agenda he had a clear shot on page one. He didn't take it. It didn't get ugly until the builder attacked him multiple times and even then Carl says what a nice boat they are.

99% of the time a builder can tell a good tale about a boat's potential because 99% of the buyers won't ever know any different and will love and enjoy what they have. The problem is every now and then someone with the experience, knowledge and talent to prove or disprove those claims comes along and then it gets shakey. I'm sure he is a good builder. I'm sure it's a great product. I'm sure there are many satisfied customers who love it and have every right to. Doesn't change the fact that the boat doesn't weigh what the website or NADA say the boat weighs. Simple fix!

As far as Carl's old pal JL trying to catch a free ride, that's another story. JL has some problems coming to grips with the fact that he sold a boat to a bud and the boat had some issues. Unfortunately JL had never even laid eyes on the boat and had sold it strictly off of pics he had been emailed. New owner fixed the boat. Looks great, runs great. Problem solved. Still, JL has issues with it and even though Carl and the new owner would happily let it die, JL likes to bring up his shortcomings whenever given the opportunity. I'll bet you a cheeseburger JL has no personal knowledge of the hull being discussed in the other thread. Just saw a good opportunity to take a shot at his pal who knows the truth about him and couldn't pass it up.

Carl has a couple of problems here. He hasn't spent the last decade trying to make himself out to be a legend of the internet by trying to sell everybody on how much he does know, how much experience he does have and how much talent he has. People don't realize his abilities because he hasn't wasted his time shoving them down their throats.

Carl also can't grasp how some people operate. He is as trustworthy as the day is long. He's a straight shooter and a square dealer. I will (and have) buy darn near anything Carl has for sale because I know I'll be getting the very best. It's hard for people like that to grasp how some people operate.

I have to ask again: who started the pizzing contest, who screamed the loudest and who really wouldn't let it die?

Carl: give it up bro!! You're trying to argue facts with salesmen and logic with idiots in an attempt to warn people who aren't on your level enough to care.
It's a fine hull that serves it's purpose that's plenty fast for most of us mere mortals.

And, I've told you to lay off of JL. I don't know why you do it. I can't see the sport in it. It's just too easy. I will also defend JL's dealer. Heard a lot of good things about him and several who I trust believe in him. He's probably a good guy who will figure it out soon enough if he hasn't already. Don't waste your time on a wannabe internet icon / wannabe boat salesman who won't be with that dealer in 6 months anyway.

To any other casual readers who can't grasp what Carl really is, that is your loss. He truly is one of the good guys.

[Bryan300XDC]

with all sincerity i would ask that you go back and re-read the thread with a different mindset. Carl doesn't start this love fest. He doesn't even bring it up. On page 5 post 74 he merely quotes someone else who asks the question about weight. If carl had really wanted to initaite and press an agenda he had a clear shot on page one. He didn't take it. It didn't get ugly until the builder attacked him multiple times and even then carl says what a nice boat they are.

99% of the time a builder can tell a good tale about a boat's potential because 99% of the buyers won't ever know any different and will love and enjoy what they have. The problem is every now and then someone with the experience, knowledge and talent to prove or disprove those claims comes along and then it gets shakey. I'm sure he is a good builder. I'm sure it's a great product. I'm sure there are many satisfied customers who love it and have every right to. Doesn't change the fact that the boat doesn't weigh what the website or nada say the boat weighs. Simple fix!

As far as carl's old pal jl trying to catch a free ride, that's another story. Jl has some problems coming to grips with the fact that he sold a boat to a bud and the boat had some issues. Unfortunately jl had never even laid eyes on the boat and had sold it strictly off of pics he had been emailed. New owner fixed the boat. Looks great, runs great. Problem solved. Still, jl has issues with it and even though carl and the new owner would happily let it die, jl likes to bring up his shortcomings whenever given the opportunity. I'll bet you a cheeseburger jl has no personal knowledge of the hull being discussed in the other thread. Just saw a good opportunity to take a shot at his pal who knows the truth about him and couldn't pass it up.

Carl has a couple of problems here. He hasn't spent the last decade trying to make himself out to be a legend of the internet by trying to sell everybody on how much he does know, how much experience he does have and how much talent he has. People don't realize his abilities because he hasn't wasted his time shoving them down their throats.

Carl also can't grasp how some people operate. He is as trustworthy as the day is long. He's a straight shooter and a square dealer. I will (and have) buy darn near anything carl has for sale because i know i'll be getting the very best. It's hard for people like that to grasp how some people operate.

I have to ask again: Who started the pizzing contest, who screamed the loudest and who really wouldn't let it die?

Carl: Give it up bro!! You're trying to argue facts with salesmen and logic with idiots in an attempt to warn people who aren't on your level enough to care.
It's a fine hull that serves it's purpose that's plenty fast for most of us mere mortals.

And, i've told you to lay off of jl. I don't know why you do it. I can't see the sport in it. It's just too easy. I will also defend jl's dealer. Heard a lot of good things about him and several who i trust believe in him. He's probably a good guy who will figure it out soon enough if he hasn't already. Don't waste your time on a wannabe internet icon / wannabe boat salesman who won't be with that dealer in 6 months anyway.

To any other casual readers who can't grasp what carl really is, that is your loss. He truly is one of the good guys.

+100000000000

[YELLOWXD]

With all sincerity I would ask that you go back and re-read the thread with a different mindset. Carl doesn't start this love fest. He doesn't even bring it up. On page 5 post 74 he merely quotes someone else who asks the question about weight. If Carl had really wanted to initaite and press an agenda he had a clear shot on page one. He didn't take it. It didn't get ugly until the builder attacked him multiple times and even then Carl says what a nice boat they are.

99% of the time a builder can tell a good tale about a boat's potential because 99% of the buyers won't ever know any different and will love and enjoy what they have. The problem is every now and then someone with the experience, knowledge and talent to prove or disprove those claims comes along and then it gets shakey. I'm sure he is a good builder. I'm sure it's a great product. I'm sure there are many satisfied customers who love it and have every right to. Doesn't change the fact that the boat doesn't weigh what the website or NADA say the boat weighs. Simple fix!

As far as Carl's old pal JL trying to catch a free ride, that's another story. JL has some problems coming to grips with the fact that he sold a boat to a bud and the boat had some issues. Unfortunately JL had never even laid eyes on the boat and had sold it strictly off of pics he had been emailed. New owner fixed the boat. Looks great, runs great. Problem solved. Still, JL has issues with it and even though Carl and the new owner would happily let it die, JL likes to bring up his shortcomings whenever given the opportunity. I'll bet you a cheeseburger JL has no personal knowledge of the hull being discussed in the other thread. Just saw a good opportunity to take a shot at his pal who knows the truth about him and couldn't pass it up.

Carl has a couple of problems here. He hasn't spent the last decade trying to make himself out to be a legend of the internet by trying to sell everybody on how much he does know, how much experience he does have and how much talent he has. People don't realize his abilities because he hasn't wasted his time shoving them down their throats.

Carl also can't grasp how some people operate. He is as trustworthy as the day is long. He's a straight shooter and a square dealer. I will (and have) buy darn near anything Carl has for sale because I know I'll be getting the very best. It's hard for people like that to grasp how some people operate.

I have to ask again: who started the pizzing contest, who screamed the loudest and who really wouldn't let it die?

Carl: give it up bro!! You're trying to argue facts with salesmen and logic with idiots in an attempt to warn people who aren't on your level enough to care.
It's a fine hull that serves it's purpose that's plenty fast for most of us mere mortals.

And, I've told you to lay off of JL. I don't know why you do it. I can't see the sport in it. It's just too easy. I will also defend JL's dealer. Heard a lot of good things about him and several who I trust believe in him. He's probably a good guy who will figure it out soon enough if he hasn't already. Don't waste your time on a wannabe internet icon / wannabe boat salesman who won't be with that dealer in 6 months anyway.

To any other casual readers who can't grasp what Carl really is, that is your loss. He truly is one of the good guys.

Well MHA I wondered how long it would take you to follow along. First off the other thread was about a problem with a 300xs witch I have one of. Second if you read the post I responded about the issue being dicussed and your buddy Carl jumped in on me. I am going to say this one last time and if you havent heard it before now make sure you read it and read it again, I truly regret what happened with Dave's boat. It doesnt matter if he is right or wrong or the issues are real or not he is the customer and if not haapy then there is a problem. You can run your mouth about me being a salesman all you want but I learned that along time ago. I have spent the last 13 years with 2 companies as a sales person as a sales manager and as a general manager and at one point ran a 5 million dollar a year buisness, a proud father of 2 and a husband for almost 15 years, a home owner and a very accomplished sales person I dont need a stupid computer and a couple interent sites to make me into something. Back to the issue at hand you are correct I never saw the boat never touched it. I described the boat to Dave as it was discribed to me by the owner Greg Clark who has been in the marine industry for 20+ years. I figured I could trust his word. I will refer you to the other 13 boats I sold with no issues. The interesting thing I read in your post is now you are saying Greg Clark is a great guy and you have heard great things about him etc. What you dont know or was never told or simply want to ignore is that I worked out a deal with Dave to purchase this boat. He was to pay 1000.00 deposit and .50cent mile and I was going to deliever it to him and at that point he could have inspected it. 24 hours later he called Greg directly with out me knowing had Greg go out walk around the boat with him on the phone and got a detailed discription from Greg at that point he renegotiated the deal for a better deal and agreed to wire Greg the entire amount of money for the boat based on his phone call. In my opinion his decision to purchase the boat was based mainly on information given to him by Greg. Even with that being said I am not claiming to be innocent and I fully understand that when you purchase something like this and there is money involved emmotions can run high on both sides. I have taken the position that I have over the past few months simply because Dave never gave anyone the chance to even talk about making this right in fact it was several weeks after he picked the boat up from his mom's where it was dropped shipped before we even knew there was a issue or issues. He simply started posting on Fastbass about how he got screwed and then the rest of the FB members piled on and knew nothng about any of it and I thnk that if you are honest about it all of you would have to agree that this was simply none of there buisness and should have been between Dave Greg and me and at what point there was no resolution and people wanted to talk bad about Greg or me then I guess they could. Kinda like your prop problem recently. You tried to resolve it and couldnt and then got otheres involved. We can debate the issues on every website on the net back and forwards and probably will never agree and I understand that as well Dave is your friend and yall are standing up for him and I actually respect that. I will simply say this as I said then neither of you guys know me and most likely will never meet me but neither of you have ever picked up the phone to at least hear my side of the story and to me you are no better a man than you are trying to make me out to be if you can not at least do that. That is not a jab at either of you to start a rock throwing contest that is simply how I feel. I am going to give you a few more facts on this issue and then to be upfront I simply think it needs to come to a end. If you wish to talk to me I will be glad to PM you a # and we can discuss or debate this issue peacefully. Keep in mind before I list these issues I am in no way saying Dave is at fault etc but go back to what I said about emotions and money and these deals

1. This boat was sold on consignment by Countryside Marine and the BOS clearly stated no warranties expressed or implied.

2. This boat was never wrecked as implied by Greg Rosser to Dave witch I think is where most of this started. I believe that if it had been the Kurt or Chub's son would have came out and said it was the one that hit the bridge. It has never been to any Stratos plant for any repairs as stated by some

3. Dave's original claim was that is had a rotted transom and simply could not have because it was composite as all Stoker's were from 99 on

4. Obviously Dave had a problem in the transom area but that doesnt mean it was wrecked as he was told by 2 FB members that boat had 2 knee braces and actually needed 3 and they had went and added to theres and gave him details as to fix and this was a common problem

5. As far as cosmetics and scratches it was told to Dave that there were a few and he said he was not worried about that

6. Yes he had a cut tranducer and I would have gladly sent him one but I never had the chance

7. Dave was told to return the boat to Stroker and that Chub would repair anything and everything wrong with the boat at no expense to him. Dave refused by saying it was not Chubb's problem when in fact if the brace was broken it was Chubb problem

8.Carl your exact words to me when I called you for Dave's # when all this started was "Well Dave is very anal about his boats he said there was a few things wrong with the boat but nothing major and the boat was well worth what he paid and then some"

9. at the end of the day the simply fact is Dave never made one phone call to myself Greg or Stroker to discuss anything about any of this and when we called he simply kept saying it was no big deal and he would learn from his mistakes and if he could not repair it he would take it to the landfield and scrap it like the last one. Dave actually called Stroker to order some parts and Chubb was the other one on the phone when he put 2 and 2 together and realized this was the boat he ask Dave if there was anything he could do and was he going to bring the boat in and Dave's exact words were "Oh no I am happy with the boat there are just a few things I need to fix and that is why I am ordering these parts afterall the boat is almost 10 years old" That came directly from Chubb.

10. All this BS aside MHA, Carl and Dave your biggest complaint or what you keep posting is that I sold a boat to someone that I had never saw or looked at and you are correct but the fact is me looking at the boat would not have changed one thing about any of this because I would not have seen or known about the transom issue or that a tranducer cable was broke and again the deal to buy this boat was made with Greg Clark based on the info he gave Dave


You can believe me or not it doesnt really matter at this point but I never set out to hurt or do Dave wrong in any way and if given the opportunity at the time I would have done everything I could have to make this right. A side note about FB. One of the amazing things to me is that everyone on that board knew baout that boat and that Dave was buying it. Everyone on there claims to be a big faimily and brothers etc. There is at least a dozen people or more with in 2 hours of Weaverville NC that Dave could have gave gas money and bought lunch that could have came and looked at the boat but no one offered. For that matter the ring leader Derek Cheek is barely and 1.5 hours away but never offered but when there was a issue they jumped right in the middle because that is what web sites are good for

Sorry for the long post but again if you are man enough to listen to both sides call me and we can discuss I certainly am man enough to admit I made a few mistakes

[AirRide]

220...221...whatever it takes.:smiletest:

[mha]

Like I said Carl, there's just no sport to it. ;)

[Brad Zastrow]

Actually is not uncommon for manufacturers to list the net hull weight. When they say hull weight they mean the hull only. No tanks, no interior, nothing. Skater does this. Custom boats can be any weight even Skater will make heavy or light layups. Sell the hull if unhappy with the performance or hang another O/B and make it a twin.

[skydog]

I don't know the builder or the boat involved, BUT I don't believe a 300 lb weight difference on a 22 foot cat would make a substantial enough difference in top end to make it appear the engine is worn out. Usually weight differences such as this make a lot more difference in acceleration than in top end numbers.

yes yes yes!

Good luck! Skydog

[tx2step]

I'm beginning to wonder if we need to start another Literacy Campaign!

[Capt Ryan Rachunek]

Eric (SCB Factory)posted that his sleds weighs at a minimum of 1600#s and his website states clearly 1300#s,so you tell me whose full of it!He also lists it in NADA to weigh 1300#s so I'm full of it right!Just face it Bud,he lied to you also!Just because you won't believe it makes you the fool!Peace Out!:icon_bs:

Dude, GIVE IT A REST ALREADY.... Maybe at the time the website was built the hulls were weighing #1300lbs and since that time, some mods have been made to the hull and now it weighs #1600lbs??? You gonna keep bashing a good man's name cause he hasn't updated a web site or NADA??? If you knew half as much about SCB's as you claim to, you'd be dangerous.... Go get back in your Bullet and keep telling yourself how great you are.....

[mha]

Dude, GIVE IT A REST ALREADY....

I thought he did.
...about a week ago.

[Capt Ryan Rachunek]

I thought he did.
...about a week ago.

Your point????

[Wizard]

How does one become a Capt? Does that title come with an SCB boat and does it require one having ones head up the owners arse! Opps. Did I say that? So sorry. Heading back into my hole now. :cheers:

[Capt Ryan Rachunek]

How does one become a Capt? Does that title come with an SCB boat and does it require one having ones head up the owners arse! Opps. Did I say that? So sorry. Heading back into my hole now. :cheers:

The USCG handles licenses, not Eric... If standing up for a quality, honest guy (who happens to be a good friend of mine) is having my head up his arse, then so be it. You obviously no nothing about the boats or the circumstances so you'd be best served to STFU and remain in your hole......:thumbsup:

[Wizard]

Methinks your more like Capt. Underpants. And in this case you'll have SCB TEAM underoos on. If you have a kid you'll understand. :D

I passed the USCG exam about 20 years ago. From now on please no longer refer to me as Wizard. I am now CAPT WIZARD to you pee-ons! :cheers:

[motexas]

Well all I can say is Carl is the most stand up guy around along with POPs and if it was not for Carl I am afraid I would have been a little to close to one of these SCB pieces of work. And Yellow XD, Obama is running a mulit billoin dollar company and has a couple of children, but I can not stand to see what he is going to do with his business.

MO

MO

[mha]

Your point????

OK, lemme get this straight. The guy who brought this back TTT from probably about page 5 where it was no doubt in a deep, peaceful sleep just so he could say "give it a rest" wants to know what my point is.