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View Full Version : Bailout Watch 523: GM to Boost Foreign Production 98%



Riverman
05-10-2009, 10:42 PM
I found this (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-523-bailout-bucks-for-foreign-production-discuss/) to be pretty interesting.

1meanstream
04-02-2011, 10:33 PM
I found this (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-523-bailout-bucks-for-foreign-production-discuss/) to be pretty interesting.

when do we get our money back from this failed car company? corporate welfare sucks

Hydrophobic guy
04-03-2011, 09:22 AM
And whats the point the unions and government have been pushing our businesses to leave and build over seas for decades.

RED ALERT
04-03-2011, 09:46 AM
Should have been allowed to fail.

1meanstream
04-03-2011, 11:05 AM
Should have been allowed to fail.

it sucks but thats correct

David
04-03-2011, 11:09 AM
GM would be idiots or losers not to be increasing production in the world's biggest market, China.

Once fuel costs in America are the same as the rest of the world, and America builds the same size of cars as the rest of the world, exports might be feasible. Most US vehicles are too large to be anything but niche vehicles anywhere overseas. It might be moot anyway, as how can one compete with Chinese labor costs?

No bail out, GM, Chrysler would be gone and most of the supply base with them. No supply base, no other car production either. For me it was a banking crisis, created by the banks, with no long term costs to the banks. It's far from over. I read this week that almost 11% of US houses are empty.

1meanstream
04-03-2011, 11:13 AM
GM would be idiots or losers not to be increasing production in the world's biggest market, China.

Once fuel costs in America are the same as the rest of the world, and America builds the same size of cars as the rest of the world, exports might be feasible. Most US vehicles are too large to be anything but niche vehicles anywhere overseas. It might be moot anyway, as how can one compete with Chinese labor costs?

No bail out, GM, Chrysler would be gone and most of the supply base with them. No supply base, no other car production either. For me it was a banking crisis, created by the banks, with no long term costs to the banks. It's far from over. I read this week that almost 11% of US houses are empty.

are you joking--there would be no adjustment to supply the other auto companies??? The world market is not static!!!---it was a debt crisis and gm was choked full of debt.

RED ALERT
04-03-2011, 11:39 AM
GM would be idiots or losers not to be increasing production in the world's biggest market, China.

Once fuel costs in America are the same as the rest of the world, and America builds the same size of cars as the rest of the world, exports might be feasible. Most US vehicles are too large to be anything but niche vehicles anywhere overseas. It might be moot anyway, as how can one compete with Chinese labor costs?

No bail out, GM, Chrysler would be gone and most of the supply base with them. No supply base, no other car production either. For me it was a banking crisis, created by the banks, with no long term costs to the banks. It's far from over. I read this week that almost 11% of US houses are empty.Another one who thinks "there but for the grace of the state go I"
Our public sector took massive amounts of money out the private sector to save two poorly managed and union pillaged corps.Then there is the moral hazard of "too big to fail" which allows corps and banks to take risks and chances they otherwise wouldn't because they now know the state will bail them out with taxpayer money.
If they been allowed to fail, new opportunities would have arose from the ashes, instead we picked up a couple more dependents when we already have a house full.
What needs to be done is to get subsidies out of private industry and stop letting the inept and corrupt government recklessly tinker with free markets by picking it's own winners and losers.
In GM's case the union Democrat voter...er uh worker was the biggest winner.

Forkin' Crazy
04-03-2011, 12:15 PM
And whats the point the unions and government have been pushing our businesses to leave and build over seas for decades.

That's right. I find it amusing (in a sick way) that the unions own so much GM stock.

And I agree, they should have been allowed to fail.

My next new vehicle will probably be a Ford.

Speaking of the EPA, despite efforts by farmers to reduce run off, they are passing more and more restrictive laws. The Chesapeake Bay water shed is the latest, and the EPA has their greedy eyes on the entire Mississippi River Basin!! Expect your eggs, milk, et-al prices to sky rocket! :nonod:

Riverman
04-03-2011, 12:26 PM
My next new vehicle will probably be a Ford.

You won't be disappointed. I'm sorry I didn't start buying Fords sooner.

Riverman
04-03-2011, 12:29 PM
Speaking of the EPA, despite efforts by farmers to reduce run off, they are passing more and more restrictive laws.

I wish we could sit and chat about this, it is becoming an issue here too but not to the point of regulation.

XstreamVking
04-03-2011, 02:20 PM
I have no doubt that my next new car/truck will be a Ford. I have several Fords now, great vehicles. Just can't get too excited by the chevy's. And I really dig the new vette's and camaro's..... Knowing what we know now about the way the co. was run by the unions, before and after the bs bailout, I just can't buy a chevy... Let em move to china, they know how to deal with unions over there....Goood ruck...

Lockjaw
04-03-2011, 03:51 PM
I won't buy a GM. I am going to buy vehicles from companies that invest in my state, which means, Honda, Hyundai, Mercedes, etc. I like the Ford ecoboost engine in their truck, but I really wish Nissan or Toyota would import their midsize trucks with the turbo diesels they have overseas. They get 30 on the road, and pull a boat just fine.

XstreamVking
04-03-2011, 04:04 PM
The jap companies are the ones that helped screw up the economy. Imagine how much of our money goes over to the jap car makers and jap economy that is not helping the U.S. economy. If that money stayed here we would be in good shape in just a few years. Remember, they will not buy our products, they just steal the technology, and build it cheaper then sell it back to us. See how many American car dealers are in japan.... Just do a search for American car dealers in japan. See for yourself....

Hydrophobic guy
04-03-2011, 10:53 PM
The jap companies are the ones that helped screw up the economy. Imagine how much of our money goes over to the jap car makers and jap economy that is not helping the U.S. economy. If that money stayed here we would be in good shape in just a few years. Remember, they will not buy our products, they just steal the technology, and build it cheaper then sell it back to us. See how many American car dealers are in japan.... Just do a search for American car dealers in japan. See for yourself....

Wow!
Your ignorance of the Japanese is astounding. I've worked with many Japanese owned companies and their management. Theirs no clowning around they play to win. Many Japanese execs and management will refuse pay if their companies are doing poorly. They really can't believe how some of our workers can ask for a raise or, in the case of unions automatically get raises even if the company is failing. Here's a tidbit on them as a people. In the mid 90's they had a natural disaster that made Katrina look like a storm. For the most part they asked for no help. Their was no riots, no looting, the citizens, police, military and government all worked together. The Yakuza their version of the Mafia even supplied much needed medical supplies. You may point a finger at them and play the blame game but, simple fact is our cars are only bought in Japan by the very rich. Their are huge taxes on gas guzzlers not to mention the price of fuel in general. Even motorcycles are tough to get. You get licensed per cc of displacement bigger it is the higher the cost. Do you also know that nothing is taught to children in school of the war as they look at it as a disgrace? Japan use to be the biggest owners of our debt but, now China has taken the top spot. And China should actually be concidered an enemy. BTW, before they recently dropped their corporate tax rate they were #1 in the world now, we are.

JR IN JAX
04-04-2011, 12:20 PM
When GM moves everything to China, we will get to pay for all of the GM workers in the US to get 300 weeks of unemployement and pay for their pensions too. They will try to do it before 2012 in case they can't buy their slave back into the White House.

specboatops
04-04-2011, 12:56 PM
You won't be disappointed. I'm sorry I didn't start buying Fords sooner.

Letting the bashing begin BUT I Concur ! Ford product line is awesome.

Chris

JR IN JAX
04-04-2011, 01:06 PM
Last month was the first month since '98 where Ford outsold GM, so others must feel the same.

WATERWINGS
04-04-2011, 02:11 PM
Expect your eggs, milk, et-al prices to sky rocket! :nonod:


"necessarily" skyrocket.

Riverman
04-04-2011, 02:54 PM
I had a quick look at the Fiesta this morning and I'm going to have a better look after work. Nice little car!

Hydrophobic guy
04-04-2011, 03:06 PM
I had a quick look at the Fiesta this morning and I'm going to have a better look after work. Nice little car!

I had a Fiasco back in the day that car was tough as nails and went pretty good if I remember right it had a German engine in it.
They still have many racing leagues in the UK for just Fiestas. I drove one a while back in Britain and the new ones make the old ones look like turds.

sho305
04-04-2011, 06:39 PM
There is hardly any automakers left here anyway, it is all on the non union suppliers for the most part. Thing is the automakers can make money and repay the debt, but the Fed is not feeding them money at 0% so they can invest in oil futures like the banks. I think they bailed out the automakers because it would have caused such a huge mess, the kind they don't want to see, the kind right out on the streets when you toss millions of workers out all at once. The bank bailout was more one guy slipping a few of our billions to his bank CEO buddy so he would still get his bonus for running the bank into the ground. Bankruptcy court would have easily wound them down, but the management would have been hammered.

Yes GM is doing very well in China. Expect most of our cars to be from China soon no matter what the name on the front. Everyone loves slave labor and will gravitate to it. Our economy will continue to suffer from it.

CDave
04-04-2011, 07:24 PM
The Ford Fiesta is the car Ford is using in the WRC this year. They had been using the Focus but with major rules changes they are now using the Fiesta. Of course the "Fiesta" they race is all race car. But at least it's the same size as a factory Fiesta.

http://fordpicgall.co.cc/pictures/car/images/97/ford_fiesta_rs_wrc_press_images_main.jpg

XstreamVking
04-05-2011, 06:43 AM
Our auto industry was once the most productive in the world. Since we allowed the invasion of foreign cars that by plan, undercut and undermined our ability to compete in a market of our own design has been successful completed, soon the only cars we will be able to buy will be foreign. All the lost income from this industry going away will hurt the U.S. greatly. With out any products mfg. in our factories, they will close and our workers will be without work and getting a govt. handout. This has come about by the brainwashing of the American public that foreign products are superior to ours and cost less. So, if we keep buying foreign cars etc, we can blame mo one but ourselves for our demise. Our "friends" overseas will not help us to recover from our downward spiral, but will exploit and profit from it. Even this "ignorant" American can see the writing on the wall.

JR IN JAX
04-05-2011, 08:19 AM
Our auto industry was once the most productive in the world. Since we allowed the invasion of foreign cars that by plan, undercut and undermined our ability to compete in a market of our own design has been successful completed, soon the only cars we will be able to buy will be foreign. All the lost income from this industry going away will hurt the U.S. greatly. With out any products mfg. in our factories, they will close and our workers will be without work and getting a govt. handout. This has come about by the brainwashing of the American public that foreign products are superior to ours and cost less. So, if we keep buying foreign cars etc, we can blame mo one but ourselves for our demise. Our "friends" overseas will not help us to recover from our downward spiral, but will exploit and profit from it. Even this "ignorant" American can see the writing on the wall.
I bought Detroit's Union made Junk for many years and then met friends with Hondas that they would not part with. I bought my Daughter an Accord and then my son a Toyota 4X4 truck. When something runs almost forever with no repairs, even I could not argue that. I replaced my Wife's Chateau van with a Honda 4X4 SUV and five years later it has not had any repairs. The van had a couple of AC compressors, several AC leaks and we spent a small fortune on the 4 wheel ABS control system. My whole family now drives Hondas, Toyotas and Lexus.

No more paying a hungover/stoned Union Idiot 75K a year to screw up my braking system ever again.....

sho305
04-05-2011, 09:30 AM
I'd say US autos were that bad to allow the Asians to get in so easily, I mean 80s cars flat out sucked. But hey competition is good and it has made a better product, I doubt you will find much difference today. Toyota does not even top the list of highest quality cars anymore and had massive recalls. IMHO the problems we have today are more due to outsourcing US labor rather than the automakers doing such a poor job. You are seeing it in all manufacturing, now seeing the effect of losing all those jobs. Remember every time a job leaves it raises your healthcare and taxes costs, reduces strength of consumers possibly buying the product/service you make. What goes around comes around. We have high unemployment because companies do not need to hire, meaning they are not growing, because their customer base is not growing....because those consumers are becoming poor. It is our country, I guess that is what we want.

sho305
04-05-2011, 10:40 AM
The Ford Fiesta is the car Ford is using in the WRC this year. They had been using the Focus but with major rules changes they are now using the Fiesta. Of course the "Fiesta" they race is all race car. But at least it's the same size as a factory Fiesta.

http://fordpicgall.co.cc/pictures/car/images/97/ford_fiesta_rs_wrc_press_images_main.jpg
Nice, and I bet in the EU they can buy a factory version with a 300hp turbo too, and we can't. But they are getting better at not sending us the junkiest version of cars like the ancient Focus we had two versions older than the Euro one. Also getting the C-max here and have that little van now. Ford is going to have an impressive small vehicle lineup. I also saw what might be the new Escape, it is very different than the current one.

Forkin' Crazy
04-05-2011, 02:30 PM
You guys that really tout the Asian cars really think they are building factories in the states because they care about the welfare of the American worker? Couldn't be to get around the import tariffs could it? ;)

skydog
04-05-2011, 03:37 PM
You won't be disappointed. I'm sorry I didn't start buying Fords sooner.

Man for sure we just bought a new 2011 Ford Sport Edge! 305HP V6 best in call MPG and HP. The Syn is unreal cool!!And we drove them all Gm,Lexus,Acura....... Car is so soild and quiet inside we just love it! It has 22" rims stock on it and drives and ride better than my Dads oil leaking Caddy! There Trucks are the same way and there Echo boost is unreal!! I have 4 good buddys that are real picky about there stuff all were GM truck owners for years and years!! I told them to just go drive the Fords. They ALL made the change. I was a GM man too but after 10 pages of TSB on every thing they make and my new 5.3 using oil and piston slapping and Gm says that is normal i was done. Glad to see we can build better than the other guys!!! :) :)

Skydog

Phil's other half...Sue.
04-06-2011, 08:53 PM
Thanx for that post! and they still have no looting after this last disaster...my mom's tenants are 2 young Japanese girls going to college and they are one of the only tenants who have total respect and pay their rent every month like clockwork on the due date. They keep the apartment clean and are truly respectful with everything they do. Our last tenant was also a Japanese girl and no problems either! I also worked for Japanese for quite a long time and I still love them to this day....I respect Japan and their people! Sorry but I drive a Honda Accord too! my brother wouldn't be caught dead driving anything but American and neither would Phil but I can't afford to keep up with the repairs like I had with my American cars...

Wow!
Your ignorance of the Japanese is astounding. I've worked with many Japanese owned companies and their management. Theirs no clowning around they play to win. Many Japanese execs and management will refuse pay if their companies are doing poorly. They really can't believe how some of our workers can ask for a raise or, in the case of unions automatically get raises even if the company is failing. Here's a tidbit on them as a people. In the mid 90's they had a natural disaster that made Katrina look like a storm. For the most part they asked for no help. Their was no riots, no looting, the citizens, police, military and government all worked together. The Yakuza their version of the Mafia even supplied much needed medical supplies. You may point a finger at them and play the blame game but, simple fact is our cars are only bought in Japan by the very rich. Their are huge taxes on gas guzzlers not to mention the price of fuel in general. Even motorcycles are tough to get. You get licensed per cc of displacement bigger it is the higher the cost. Do you also know that nothing is taught to children in school of the war as they look at it as a disgrace? Japan use to be the biggest owners of our debt but, now China has taken the top spot. And China should actually be concidered an enemy. BTW, before they recently dropped their corporate tax rate they were #1 in the world now, we are.

Liberator*21
04-07-2011, 07:19 AM
I've always been a "TRUE DIE HARD CHEVY OWNER" from my very first car ever to my present problem plagued Chevy vehicle.........but that's now changed..............

I'd never buy another GM product if my life depended on it for a multitude of reasons already posted in this thread, not to mention the pi$$ poor quality, so I won't rehash all that again.................

As for foreign cars, sure allot of them are now built here in the states, that helps put allot of folks to work. The quality of those cars/trucks is generally very impressive, so it goes without saying that Japan/S. Korea have got it down to a system of building quality cars, but where do the profits of each and every sale go................yep, back across the pond. It's like a double edge sword....................jobs but at a price.