Hey Instigator

[Robbie B]

How is the 87 200GT project going? Is it on the water yet? Keen to here details, did you bore to 3 litre?, finger port?, if so where did you get specs for finger ports?,did you use Wiseco's etc, etc. Im sure there are plenty of other home engine builders out there who would like to know as well. Details Pleeeeeeeeeeeez.

Cheers

[Instigator]

No secrets here!
Block is at Al Stokers in Ca. being poked to 3 liters and he is adding finger ports as well.
I am fairly comfortable with a die grinder but finger ports are a little beyond that.
Anybody thats interested in this project, e me or do a post, I'll tell you everything I know.
I am doing my own porting based on previous experince, a couple of very good two stroke books, and all the info I can get form anyone willing to tell. The porting is definately the secret, and basically no one is willing to tell.
The porting side of it is what will seperate my motor from that of a guy like Al Stoker or Gordon Montague to name a couple.
I understand and accept this, I'm just a gear head that gets off on trying to do it himself. I am willing to leave the extra HP's on the table because of doing the porting myself.
I had three V-6 JohnRudes torn down in my shop (garage) at the same time where I could measure port configuration.
The old (86/87) 2.7 "bridgeport" motors have huge exhaust ports. Basically two medium size windows seperated by a bridge vs one large window in the newer motors.
I knew this going into it, and is why I chose this model to start with. Takes much more machine work (expense) than starting with a newer 3 liter motor, but I think it will be at least as strong when your done.
Plus if you shop you can find good donor motors for $500. - $1000.
I have talked to every expert that was willing to open up, and basically stated that my goal was 300 HP's and 8000-8400 RPM with a rebuild/refresh every season. They all agreed that it was easily attainable!!
Not sure I'm smart enough or experienced enough to get it, but I'm gonna try.
Basically the parts list is '87 GT 200, poke to 3 liter, add finger ports, lighter 12 amp flywheel/stator, '86 225 carbs (they're the biggest), Wiseco pistons (they're forged)cutting my mid down to 15 or 16", heavy rods, shaved stock heads (to start with), open exhaust.
The scary part for me is the dialing in stage after assembly!! I have access to a dyno through my local dealer (THANK YOU JIMMY CARTER!!) so that will help.
But timing, jetting, compression ratio etc are all capable of nukeing a motor like this in nothing flat!!
The frustrating thing to me is that their are no books on this???? I understand the "Tuners" being tight lipped about the porting, that is the black art that they have mastered and earn their pay check from. But parts and tuning in general would be very helpfull!!! (Anybody listening??)
I built a very strong 440 six pack for a car several years ago and I bought books that told me everything to do!! I did it just the way they said (other than porting my own heads) and it ran exactly how they said it would and I have'nt touched that motor in probably five years!!
Anyhow, I am way behind on the "FrankenRude" project, but am working on it every day now and will do posts when I "learn" something.
Again, anyone interested feel free to contact me either by e-mail or with posts (I'm am spending less time on the board though, so e's are probably better) and I will help you all I can.
Hope this helps!
Instigator
P.S. Al is working on a story of a similar build up for Hot Boat magazine, but not sure on when it will happen. He is very busy right now.

[Robbie B]

Thanks for the update Instigator. Will keep a close eye on the board for developments. Gonsidering doing somthing similar but having a little trouble finding a base powerhead to start with. Not to many of this model were sold in this part of the world.(New Zealand)

Good luck and good boating.

[Instigator]

Did'nt you e-mail me before and tell me you built/raced an inboard with a two stroke???
In this months Propeller, there is a picture and couple of paragraphs about a guy (Joe Cheezum)running a 1200cc Yammi three cylinder PWC motor in his 1.5 liter stock boat.
You the guy I'm thinking of???

[Robbie B]

Yes its me. Posted a reply in support of yourself regarding home engine builders being critisized by profesionals.Ran a 79 235 on its side in a hydroplane, very successfully I might add, from 86 - 98. A couple of years ago after a rebuild, using wiseco's reduced in weight by 70 grams / piston to match the CCC pistons I had been using, I just tried to squeeze to much out of the old girl and had a major melt down. (5 pistons)
My fault entirely, to much spark and not enough fuel. I was a little annoyed at myself because it was only a week out from the first race of the season and she was absolutely flying. With 5 damaged bores, unavailability of high perf rod bolts and given that she had 10+ years of hard racing under her belt I pensioned her off.( still got her in the shed can't bare to part with her)
Hence I've been looking for a replacement, even considered BLACK but I'm still a Johnny man at heart.

Good boating

[Instigator]

Thought that was you!! Thanx for the past e-mail of support.
Don't have any pictures of your boat you can e do you???
Thats the stuff I live for!!
Anybody can pick a class and run the same boat/motor combo as everyone else, but thats boring as hell!
Ran small O/B's for nine years (about 40 lbs ago!!) and got my ass beat almost every weekend! Ran in one of the fastest regions for my class and built all my own ****.
Could have bought someone elses boat or changed classes and won a lot more often, but thats not what I'm about!!!
What class did you run your boat in?? Was it a APBA class??
Like the 850cc class?? Had to have been a small boat too, 12 - 13'??
Just curious??

[Robbie B]

I will see if I can dig out a couple of photos of the set up and E-mail them to you.
The class I run in is an inboard hydroplane up to 3 ltr non supercharged class.( roughly equivalent to 2.5 modified APBA class) The 2 stroke running in this class caused a bit of a storm, but took the issue to the national association (NZPBA) conference and convinced them that everyone should go this way instead of outlawing or imposing penalties.
Was hopeful that others would see the light but apart from a couple of short lived efforts by others I'm still the only one running a two stroke.
The boat was timed at 113 MPH back in 86, which was the first competitive season with the two stroke, which was pretty much standard apart from a bit of deburring.
The current boat is 16ft 9in long although the Johno was originally fitted in a 14ft 6in boat. Once I started to get some serious HP out of the Johno the little boat used to get a little to loose for my likeing so I put a little more boat around me. (feels much safer)
Safe boating is better!

Regards

[bw1969]

Instigator,
Just curious about the rods you're using in your motor. I see a lot of the OMC loopers with broken rods. Is there someplace to get a stonger, lighter rod. Your project caught my attention because I have a 1987 225 and thought about doing the same thing until I found some CCC stuff and a good 235 block. Good luck!

[Instigator]

If you don't want that boat anchor '87 225?????????? heh,heh,heh!!!
Love hearing about you guys keeping the cross flows alive!!
Looked very seriously at doing one for this boat, but I think I've still got a couple of ash trays (look kinda like pistons) laying around from the last one.
As far as the rods go, I'm running the stock big ones.
According to the experts once you hit a certain compression and RPM level the light ones will not live so I am listening to them.
As far as breakage goes, I broke one of the light ones in one the '99 250 V-6's on my Sonic. "BUT", it was totally self inflicted due to a lean melt down.
They say that motor makes around 242 HP's on the dyno and I spun mine upto 6600 many times untill I opened the exhaust and removed the intake w/o being smart enough to jet accordingly!! Learned several expensive lessons on that one!! One of which is, be careful of who you trust as the "experts"!!
Anyhow back to the rods. I will polish them myself to remove any hi stress areas and get them shot peened if I have the time??
I'm not sure how many have broken because of the rod itself?? More of them with other implications like mine, I think??
From what I've seen of the inside of these things, my 8K RPM target should be doable!
I'll give you a shipping address for that old 225?????

[Edited by Instigator on 06-25-2001 at 07:18 AM]

[bw1969]

Instigator,
I just have to finish putting the ignition and carbs back on then I am planning to sell the 225 (I also have to glue all 6 magnets back on the flywheel). The motors I've seen come into my buddy's shop with the broken rods are usually the result of seizing. But I've seized plenty of cross-flows ( you gotta learn somehow) and the only one I ever broke a rod in I kept pushing to get back in (had about 25 miles to go 4pm on a Wednesday with nobody around).
I'll let you know if I come across another cheap 225!
Talk to you later.

BW1969