`89 225 vs `87 xp200 Evinrude

[goodsax]

What's the diff? Carbs, porting, both??

[charger19]

I believe the '87 200 is a 2.6 liter and the '89 200/225 is a 3 liter.They used the same basic block design though, and alot of parts will interchange. I have an '89.

[84exciter]

is a 2.7 L,but what is the dif between the 200 xp and the reg 225???:D
charlie m,racer,anyone????

[BuickTurboSix]

87 vs 89
The Cube are different as stated. Also the porting is different. I am sure that there are a few folks that can talk to porting differences. I may be wrong, but I think the 87 has bridge ports that did not carry over to the 88/89 motor. Sometime in there they introduced some finger porting. Carbs are different too. Can't remember on the control box.

200 vs 225 (88/89 model year)
Not much. If you look in the parts book and service manuals, the carb bores are the same and the high speed jets. I think the carb part numbers, idle and mid jets are different indicating that maybe the mid-range is a little different. I think the control box are the same, so I would say that they are the same in max output.

Now for the 2000
200 vs 225 vs 250
The 225 has the same parts as the 250 and the 200 has different parts (Carbs) as well as smaller high speed jets.

What I have observed:
For a given year, most changes seem to be in the carbs and jets.

[charger19]

I think the fingerports were brought in '93.My '89 doesn't have bridgeports.I have read here that the difference in '89 200 to 225 was in the airbox (the 200 having baffles) and jets but the carbs were the same.

[racer]

Ok Here we go.

86-7 2.7 litre Early 86 had the big carbs, difference between 200xp and 225 similar build time. No baffel in air box on the 200 and .675 depth head compared to .700 yes the 200xp had more power. XP Performance mounts. Both are bridge port exhaust

88-92 3.0 oval exhaust port 200xp/225 same other than color xp had performance mounts. Both had baffel in air box

93 intro closed deck 3.0 with finger ports, smaller and lower oval exhaust port. The LE version 200 same as the 225 standard 200 had smaller carbs. They remained basically the same for several years, some carb design changes, intake changes, 94 small head change.

over the years ignition did change, most notably the intro of quick start in 88 with a single power pack. Lower units also changed slightly.

92 started a new trim system.

Alan Stoker

[charger19]

Thanks Racer.Are the performance mounts on the xp solid mounts, or what is the difference from normal production mounts?

[goodsax]

Thanks for the feedback. I printed this thread for my book. I have a lousey OMC manual. Is there one that is recommended? Where can I get it?

[JamesE]

I have basically put together an engine using what I feel are the best stock parts I had on hand from different year models. I have carbs with 3 different throat sizes and about and every one of them was jetted differently from the factory(idle and intermediate). The big throat set I used had 77D high speeds,
39 intermediates, and 36 idles. I used a set of the angled intakes instead of the 90 degree bend intakes. I have a 93 model fingerported block and a set of the 2.7L heads. There was also a change in the weight of the connecting rods. The find a big difference in the weight of the connecting rods when I started tearing down some blwn powerheads, but I am not exactly sure what year this changed. I did put a set of the lighter rods in my engine. I do have a few spare blocks including a 2.7L block and a few pre-93 3.0L blocks I have been wanting to put together one of each just to play with, but that is more money than I'm willing to soend right now. Is there any problems that yall can think of with running the twin powerpack setup? Any suggestions for further mods that are easy, possible with stock parts or can be bolted on at a relatively low cost. I think the big Johnrude looper is interesting in the respect that there are a lot of options available to boaters who want to build more power just by using stock parts from the different year models. There are some pretty good power gains that can be made with these engines.

[goodsax]

Hey JamesE
I may be looking for a spare looper cowling. Might you have one in all of your stuff?
Dave

[BuickTurboSix]

I knew Alan would jump in there. He know more than all of us put together. And I knew he could not resist a OMC V6 discussion.

Given all that info, is there a year that stands out as better or best for Hot-Rodding?

Any particular years porting set up the best?

Does the Last of the Carbed OMC's (the 225 HO) represent the best it ever got, or are some of the older ones actually a better set up?

Alan, your infinite wisdom please !

PS - Really miss you guys racing in Minneapolis on the Mississippi. I've been depressed ever since they dropped this event from the Aquatenial celebration.

Where is the closest place to Minneapolis I could go and see some racing?

:cool:

[Nosubforcid]

This has been discussed "ad infinitum" go here (http://forums.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?threadid=2567) for a more complete thread

[JamesE]

Hey Goodsax, I do have a spare looper cowling, but they are the old style with the textured stickers that were recalled because they bubbled so badly. They look good though if you take a heat gun and remove the textured crap and repaint them. They are in South Carolina, but if you want one you can have it.

[charger19]

Goodsax I don't know what manual you have but the factory service manual is best in my opionon.James, I gained a bunch just from removing the baffle, rejetting, and installing 2.7 heads.It's since been rebuilt with some mild porting but I haven't been able to run it much due to ignition problems and overtime but hopefully I'll fix that tommorrow.What boat is yours on and what are the #'s?I know you posted about it somewhere else but I forget.

[JamesE]

I am still rigging it up right now. My last boat (21V Bullet) burned up in a building fire. I am putting together this 3.0L looper to go on my 20V Bullet. I have the hull weight down to somewhere near 900lbs and I am expecting to see at least 90mph on empty runs. If that works out then maybe I'll look for that triple-digit mark. I'm going to make this former fishin boat run. I have already removed the air box and after I break this new powerhead in I am going to bolt on the 2.7L heads. This old Bullet has a few tricks up its sleeve. If yall want to look at some pretty Bullets go to Bulletboats.com and se what I'm so excited about.

[charger19]

I've read the bullets are to light to work well with the heavy 3 liters.What do you think about it?I'm thinking about what I want for my next bassboat.Not sure what works well with my favorite engines besides Gambler.I'm gonna go over and check out your rig.

[JamesE]

The 20' hull is not truly ideal for the 3.0L looper, but they still run really well. The 20' foot hull weighs approx. 1100lbs (new models). The 21'10" hull loves the big engines whether they be merc, yam, or OMC. In a test in bass and walleye boat magazine a 21XD Bullet broke the 100mph barrier with a 300XPM. I have had a 21XD over 80mph with a stock 225 Evinrude (94 model). The extra weight of the big blocks doesn't help any boat, it just hurts the lighter ones like the 20' Bullet more. I guarentee that if you do buy a Bullet you won't be disappointed. The folks at the factory are great and willing be willing to help you in anyway possible. If you have any serious questions you want answered give them a call. They won't steer you wrong. If you go on Bullet's web site they have a thread right now discussing the best boat/engine combos. In my opinion the 2.5/280ss Merc is the best engine for the 20 footer. I have always wanted to see a hopped v8 looper with a 15" midsection on a 21XD. They are great boats that are totally hand laid with the best materials.

[charger19]

I enjoyed the bullet website but couldn't find your picture in the showcase.Did I just miss it?

[racer]

Buick, You can start with anyone of the 90 degree looper blocks as the end result will be very similar. Out of the box the 225HO is the strongest. Different years need different things done to get the power.

The XP mounts are not solid they are a stiffer mount than the stock mount. These are the lower mounts. On a looper the 3.6XP top mount is a good choice for a v-6 as they are very stiff.

James, The 2.7 heads work better on a open deck block, cooling differences. Also bass boats tend to like the mid sized carb better.

[JamesE]

I don't have any pictures of my new boat in there yet. I will be getting some in there shortly; as soon as I'm done with all my rigging. Racer, you say the mid size carbs work better on a bassboat. Is this because of the weight of most bassboats? I am not going to put a trolling motor on it for the time being and the hull weight is less than 900lbs. Do you think the mid size carbs are a better choice? I am looking for good numbers on the big end and I don't mind a slower holeshot. What do you think is the best heads for a closed deck looper? I am also going to keep the 6700rpm revlimiter. Thanks for the advice and help!

[racer]

The mid size carbs do not have the mid lean problem and are better out of the hole. Early 93 closed deck heads cut, this way you maintain the same cooling. The 2.7 can be used but should have cooling mods before doing so. After market also has heads for these engines.

Alan

[charger19]

Racer, thanks for the mount info.On my '89 200 I'm running the stock carbs, I think these are the midsize (1.4?) you refer to.When you say they don't have the mid lean problem, does that mean they don't need the 106 pullovers or .014 mids?I haven't been able to get mine to make good power since I installed them.Very mild porting.I can't find anything else wrong.Thanks!

[JamesE]

Can I get rid of the lean midrange by bumping up the high speed jet size? I just don't want to lose any topend. I don't mind a poor holeshot. I really think I nned every advantage I can to keep up with the mercs on the big end and I am not interested in drag starts, I am concerned when you talk about lean conditions because I DO NOT want to blow this powerhead. Would a set of Bker Hot Heads provide proper cooling and do you think these would be a good choice. I want good reliable horsepower and a boat set up for optimum top speed. I have a fair amount of knowledge about the loopers, but I am still young and willing to bow to the superior knowledge of some of yall on this sight including you Alan. Thank You for the help.

[racer]

Charger, I would still run the 106`s but stock mid jets as the nozzles will help richen the mid. Remember the 106 makes the engine about a half size richer on the mains.

James, when you bump the main to compensate the mid you lose top end.

[charger19]

Thanks Racer.I can see how the to rich mid would hurt acceleration, but once it was past that I would think it would rev up and be ok.I guess once it's clogged with extra fuel it can't blow it out?It did best on the first try, even planing out without help, but got worse after that.It was to rough to really open it up.It also doesn't want to idle unless the the throttle is advanced, would the mids have anything to do with that?Again, Thanks!

[Sleekster]

Sounds like its throughout the powerband.

Does the running rough feel like fuel starvation? Not good on a 2 stroke. Still using the stock pump? Just a thought.

[BenKeith]

Charger,

Have you tried to advance the idle timing. You mentioned you have it at 2 degrees. I would think that's a little low for higher than stock compression. I've never checked mine because I don't care what idle timing is, I just adjust until I get the idle rpm where I want it. I would bring it up until she's at about 600 - 700 rpm, warm and in gear. In the water, not on a hose. Just don't go over 18 on WOT advance

As for mids, it put .014's in mine and it was like running with the choke on, way too much fuel. I think mine are .039's now and is still a little rich. I could probably go a little larger, but racer says I might get too much decel knock so, as I have learned, if "The Man" says don't do it, I don't.

[JamesE]

Thank you for the helpful advice. I guess I'll put those set of medium throat carbs on and give it a go. It would probably be a real good idea for me to have a set of EGT's installed. I have never done that before so I think I should get some professional help in the area. thank you once again.

[charger19]

Sleekster, still using the new style oms pump.It really doesn't seem to run rough, just doesn't have power.I couldn't open it up Sat to see what it would do wide open because of wind.I've thought of hooking up a different tank and checking the pump by the manual but haven't yet.If it's a restriction I figured the alarm should sound, if it's working.The piston tops and plugs are black and there's fuel in the front of the carbs as well as excess fuel coming out the exhaust.I appreciate the help!
Keith,I set the idle timing at 4* after top dead center, stock is 6* after top dead center,(note the after) it would idle on the hose with the throttles closed but it was low.I opened the throttle to set it at 1100 rpm on the hose and that brought it to 2* atdc so it's advanced pretty far.That has the throttles barely cracked but It still won't idle in the water in gear.I've got the max timing at 16* btdc.The mark on the throttle cam is already advanced say a quarter inch past the middle of the cam follower where it's supposed to be stock.Where is yours at?
I'll go back to the stock mids, which were .035, same as the idles, which seems odd.I'll see how it does after that.Thanks for the help!Hope you're enjoying your boats.

[racer]

Sounds like the idle is rich, it is not uncommon to lean the idle on a light ported looper.

[charger19]

Thanks again Racer.Hey Keith what have got in your idles?