The SHO is back! (Ford SHO)

[sho305]

365HP twin turbo, 6 speed paddle shifted AWD, all new car, might be a nice ride.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/auto_shows/2009_chicago_auto_show_auto_shows/production_debuts/2010_ford_taurus_sho_auto_shows

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/news/auto_shows/2009_chicago_auto_show_auto_shows/production_debuts/2010_ford_taurus_sho_auto_shows/2010_ford_taurus_sho/fortau_sho_10_116/1976138-1-eng-US/fortau_sho_10_116_gallery_image_large.jpg

Photos: http://www.caranddriver.com/news/auto_shows/2009_chicago_auto_show_auto_shows/production_debuts/2010_ford_taurus_sho_auto_shows+view-photos.html

[Hydrophobic guy]

Looks cool but, coming in at $40k+ I don't think their gonna be flyin off the showroom floors.
Thats if Fords even still around in a year. ;)

[150aintenuff]

that car should sell.. even with the price point... the SHO cars were always a good value even if they were on the upper end of their class for pricing.

[mirage243]

Thats if Fords even still around in a year. ;)

At least they haven't taken bailout money.

[150aintenuff]

at Least They Haven't Taken Bailout Money.

yet!!!

[ozziffied]

looks like a runner to the Audi S4.... The old sho was a joke...

[150aintenuff]

looks like a runner to the Audi S4.... The old sho was a joke...

not for what it was built for.... it was never meant to be a "sports car" it was just a good strong running family car... they had their quirks with the yamaha motors at times... but the one I had was very reliable and quite peppy, and was an honest second faster than my 305 equipped camaro in the quarter and had much more comfortable ride to boot...

[sho305]

But the media ALWAYS says "Big Three" or "US Automakers". They are trying to do what the libs want....and never say how the Asians have always been financed by the government.

SHO has always been top of the line and top cost, they put everything on them. The early ones were real performers, man what a motor too. Shifting at 7K rpm in a car is always fun, and the power came on strong at 4K. The V8s were slower unfortunately. I know mine did 104mph in 3rd gear;) pretty good for the early 90s and a "Ford". But it was a real racing engine from Yamaha. Some people modded them to run up to 8300 rpm or something, you had to slow down the belt drive so it didn't puke the pumps and stuff. That motor would be killer in a small car, of course today they can make even more power.

IIRC they were just behind a Mustang 5.0 to 100mph, and faster above 100mph. I think it did 50mph or more in first gear, and you could smoke a tire the whole time if you wanted to. They really need a limited slip.

[NNT]

by the time the car hits the showrooms it will have 2 less turbos, 100 less hp, 4 speed auto only and another 500 lbs of mandated saftey equipment so the liberal mouth breathers feel safer. :D

[150aintenuff]

But the media ALWAYS says "Big Three" or "US Automakers". They are trying to do what the libs want....and never say how the Asians have always been financed by the government.

SHO has always been top of the line and top cost, they put everything on them. The early ones were real performers, man what a motor too. Shifting at 7K rpm in a car is always fun, and the power came on strong at 4K. The V8s were slower unfortunately. I know mine did 104mph in 3rd gear;) pretty good for the early 90s and a "Ford". But it was a real racing engine from Yamaha. Some people modded them to run up to 8300 rpm or something, you had to slow down the belt drive so it didn't puke the pumps and stuff. That motor would be killer in a small car, of course today they can make even more power.

IIRC they were just behind a Mustang 5.0 to 100mph, and faster above 100mph. I think it did 50mph or more in first gear, and you could smoke a tire the whole time if you wanted to. They really need a limited slip.
agreed.. 53MPH to be exact.

[Forkin' Crazy]

but the one I had was very reliable and quite peppy, and was an honest second faster than my 305 equipped camaro in the quarter and had much more comfortable ride to boot...

That isn't saying much. :rolleyes:

So I guess this is to compete with the Holden.... er uh..... "Pontiac" G8?

[150aintenuff]

by the time the car hits the showrooms it will have 2 less turbos, 100 less hp, 4 speed auto only and another 500 lbs of mandated saftey equipment so the liberal mouth breathers feel safer. :D

150 less hp.... and 1000 lbs more safety crap.... that really only slows chit down and doesnt make anyone any safer....

[150aintenuff]

That isn't saying much. :rolleyes:
?

true it isnt.... that 305 car was GUTLESS.. but the tore azZ was heavier, and OH SO comfortable to cruse around in...

Toyota Avalon, Audi A6,A8 ect..

[NNT]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/ToyotaCamrySportivo.jpg

Hey wow it's a new ford camry I mean yota taurus , oops I mean...............

[150aintenuff]

forgot to comment on the Camry rear end stylin on the FRONT end of that Taurus. WTF? :D

Camry wouldnt get out of the way so it had to push it out of its way thus molding its nose into the back end of the camry..

[sho305]

It is much more Euro-Ford, I think it will look different in person. The SHO is kind of an executive express/luxury cruiser/family car thing. I would guess Audi is closer to it. My old one handled pretty good for such a big sedan (big compared to typical sports cars) and rode nice....certainly was in between in that respect. That 3.0 was just a thing to worship though, man did that thing run nice. Car was a sleeper too, I liked that. Blew a few unsuspecting V8 cars off the road with it. One time I topped out a 305 IROC, it kept going back to 3rd on the floor and would not stay in OD. I forget the speedo must have said 120+ or something but they are never right....at 3/4 throttle. Drove nice at speed, really needed that 350 they put in them later.

[Forkin' Crazy]

My bet the G8 will kick its ass! :eek:

[1BadAction]

twin turbo and only 365hp? LOL. Ford could f*ck up a soup sandwich.

[sho305]

In case you have not noticed everyone is going to turbos including BMW, MB, Audi; because that is the only way they can meet emissions. Say goodbye to those high rev engines. That is why Ford developed that engine. I'd guess they could get much more out of it but then it would get 15mpg like those kinds of cars do....can't really do that these days.

[150aintenuff]

twin turbo and only 365hp? LOL. Ford could f*ck up a soup sandwich.

LASY turbo.... i imagine even with twin turbo its only 4-5 Lb boost... I am sure there is ALOT more in it....

apples to oranges but look how enemic the 6.4L PSD is..


OH WAIT .... WHO CARES about this Quote 1 bad actio will NEVER SEE IT!!!

[NNT]

LASY turbo.... i imagine even with twin turbo its only 4-5 Lb boost... I am sure there is ALOT more in it....

till the weak point is found and it scatters rods and partial crank matter all over the street :D

[150aintenuff]

till The Weak Point Is Found And It Scatters Rods And Partial Crank Matter All Over The Street :d

True!!

[RobF]

if it does come out tuners will have that thing easily in the 400hp range on its stock turbos.

Ford tends to overbuild thier engines when they are going into hot rods, who can deny the strength of the 5.0, and the strength of the new GT40, twin turbo 1000+ hp GT40s are out there with little effort

[150aintenuff]

if it does come out tuners will have that thing easily in the 400hp range on its stock turbos.

Ford tends to overbuild thier engines when they are going into hot rods, who can deny the strength of the 5.0, and the strength of the new GT40, twin turbo 1000+ hp GT40s are out there with little effort

ON STOCKER bottom ends and fuel systems and injectors to boot...

[150aintenuff]

if it does come out tuners will have that thing easily in the 400hp range on its stock turbos.

Ford tends to overbuild thier engines when they are going into hot rods, who can deny the strength of the 5.0, and the strength of the new GT40, twin turbo 1000+ hp GT40s are out there with little effort

400 is as simple as a bump in waste gate pressure.. 500+ is EASILY possible with tuning and setup work..

[BamBam2970]

the Old Sho were A good Ride For they Were Intended too do ! Hell You go to the grocery with kid s and back In no Time !!! Yamaha Power Plant to try out and would bruise the Guy your were next to at the Red light Depending the Other Vehicle Next you !!

[sho305]

Not heard that much about the new PSD 6.4 other than like all of the new emissions motors they take more fuel (actually down to 1.99 here, strange). I have driven the old 7.3s all the way to the last one with a big chip and exhaust, and a 6.0 that pulls away from it and gets 21mpg empty all the time and its a crewcab 4x4. That 6.0 is sweet IMO, and he has never had any problems with it. I just love turbos.

SHO: 12 psi it says: http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090111.017/ford-35-liter-ecoboost-v-6-twin-turbo-engine-revealed

I read someplace they can hog it out larger cubes too like 4.0L.

More info: http://news.prnewswire.com/ViewContent.aspx?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/02-27-2009/0004979888&EDATE=


The new 3.5-liter engine is the first in a wave of EcoBoost engines coming as part of Ford's strategy to bring affordable fuel efficiency improvements to millions. By 2013, more than 90 percent of Ford's North American lineup will be available with EcoBoost technology.

[beer30]

Ford is the ONLY American car company that actually prepared for this downturn. They started selling off different pieces of the company to build up their cash; They also secured a 18 billion dollar loan(but at a high interest rate) in case things went really south. They renegotiated with the UAW also. They saw what was coming and took it like men, not a bunch of pussies with their hands out every month looking for our money to cover THEIR mistakes.:thumbsup:Chuck

[BigRedAlli]

Ford is the ONLY American car company that actually prepared for this downturn. They started selling off different pieces of the company to build up their cash; They also secured a 18 billion dollar loan(but at a high interest rate) in case things went really south. They renegotiated with the UAW also. They saw what was coming and took it like men, not a bunch of pussies with their hands out every month looking for our money to cover THEIR mistakes.:thumbsup:Chuck

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Selling Mazda was a BIG step in staying alive...

[pyro]

My dad and another guy built the first Taurus SHO prototype at Carron & Co. in Inkster, back in 1985. I have a photo of the two standing next to the "first" SHO, which was ordered by Ford to be re-powered with a special Japanese crate motor, fitting it with a Mustang hood scoop and a manual trans designed for an Escort, just for prototype and testing purposes at the time. ;)

[RobF]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Selling Mazda was a BIG step in staying alive...


that was only $538 million, compared to the whats being handed out to others thats chump change, maybe they should sell the remaining 1/3 that they still own in mazda and buy themselves some new clothes and host a buffet.

[steamengine6]

Ford is the ONLY American car company that actually prepared for this downturn. They started selling off different pieces of the company to build up their cash; They also secured a 18 billion dollar loan(but at a high interest rate) in case things went really south. They renegotiated with the UAW also. They saw what was coming and took it like men, not a bunch of pussies with their hands out every month looking for our money to cover THEIR mistakes.:thumbsup:Chuck

This is very true. All three went to Washington at first. Ford had enough sense to see what was going to happen and backed out and took care of their own.I believe GM and Chry. wanted money to pad their own CEO s pocket.I heard that GM has went back for more.I believe GM would been better off to followed Ford`s way.It seemed like at first,GM led Ford and Chry To Washington.

[David]

BMW and Ford are going turbo for fuel economy, not emissions.

[sho305]

Tough emissions standards worldwide and soaring manufacturing costs in Germany are behind BMW's decision to switch from high-revving, naturally aspirated engines in its M high-performance vehicles to turbocharged direct-injection powerplants, beginning as early as next year.

"In terms of overall performance, the new engine doesn't give anything away to the powerplant we run now, but it delivers much better consumption and lower emissions," a senior BMW M official told AutoWeek.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20081126/FREE/811269993


German giant Mercedes-Benz has announced today that it will introduce turbocharged engines across its entire model lineup by the end of 2010.

The announcement comes amid upcoming legislation in Europe and the U.S. which is pushing manufacturers towards more CO2 friendly cars.

The European Commission will need all German auto-manufacturers to reduce their average fleet emissions from 178 grams per kilometre to 138 g/km by 2012. Those that fail to meet the target wilo pay hefty fines.

“All our vehicles will have turbocharged engines in series production by the end of 2010 at the latest,” Thomas Weber, Daimler board member responsible for research and development said

http://www.caradvice.com.au/14533/mercedes-benz-going-turbo-hybrid/

Don't forget those Carbon Taxes we will get to pay on fuel as well.

[aaronmt73]

Seems like the american car companys need to get in touch with reality.The country is on the brink of a depression ,yet they continue to put junk out.Aaron

[sho305]

Seems like the american car companys need to get in touch with reality.The country is on the brink of a depression ,yet they continue to put junk out.Aaron

Well, you better go tell these IDIOTS they are full of it! Every person that took that survey (97,000 of them) must be a clueless idiot, heck maybe that is the problem?

I'm sure you can tell us why they are all wrong and you are right?


updated 6:24 p.m. ET, Wed., June. 6, 2007

DETROIT - People might have to stop making all those jokes about the quality of Ford’s cars — the ones that say Ford stands for “Found on Road Dead” or “Fixed or Repaired Daily.”

Now, it could be “Fixing Our Reputation Daily.”

Ford Motor Co. supplanted Toyota as leader of the pack in J.D. Power and Associates’ annual initial quality rankings released Wednesday, grabbing more individual awards than any other automaker for the first time since 1998, when it tied for the top spot.

Ford ranked highest in five of 19 segments in this year’s survey. That’s two better than in 1998 — the last time a U.S. automaker was on top — when Ford tied with Toyota and Honda.


For the study, Westlake Village, Calif.-based J.D. Power collected responses from more than 97,000 buyers and lessees of new 2007 model year vehicles after 90 days of ownership.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19073071/

[aaronmt73]

Its almost to the point of it being a little to late for the american cars.Unless the stock market turns around and the people once again have faith and trust were headed in a bad direction.Im guessing the help and funds headed there way will be drying up real fast. I truly hope that the american cars companys dont go under,that would cripple this country.Aaron

[sho305]

Ford has not borrowed a dime. However if they do go down it will be a turning point, if the liberals actually taught economics people would be hot. People should know things like this:

The 20th century was marked by multiple opportunities to create great wealth – radio, television, movies, telephone, automotive transportation, coal, oil, natural gas, electricity, railroads, airplanes, bio-sciences, communications, electronics, semiconductors, computers, PCs, the Internet and software. Economic circumstances created multiple opportunities to create wealth for the ordinary person from the mid 19th through the end of the 20th century. The collapse of the technology bubble from 2000 – 2003 was especially significant. Beginning in the late 1960s, computers, then PCs, then networking, and finally the Internet – along with all the software to make them work – offered the last significant wealth creation opportunities of the 20th century. When the technology bubble burst, the era of wealth creation ended. Subsequent development of cell phones, computer games, and other electronic devices are merely an extension of the technology era. Important as they are, they did little to increase the GDP of most nations.

The Deterioration Of GDP

The American economy has an embedded structural problem. Our economic focus has shifted to the preservation of wealth. This is not a prediction of the future. It is already happening. The following chart shows the annual change in Current Dollar Gross Domestic Product (GDP) from 1968 – 2008. Note that current dollar GDP seldom exceeds 2% after Q2 of 1984. For the last 20 years, the average has been just over 1.2%. The “Internet Boom” of the 1990’s actually did little to increase current dollar GDP. And despite a few quarters of spectacular growth as we claw our way out of this recession (no sure thing), it would appear average annual current dollar GDP growth will continue to deteriorate.
http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/cooke/2009/0209.html

You want it all, you GOT to MAKE the money to pay for it, simple as that.

All those things that made us money are no longer done here in the USA, and I don't see anything else that will. We can borrow the economy as long as China/etc lets us, but after that we will be in the same unproductive place with even more debt. In the end it is congress that sets the policy for all this stuff, and they will not change it (either party). Obama has little interest in changing it, he is as short sighted as those businesses he condemns for "looking only at the next quarter". His job is to look far beyond and he is worried about prying more free and very expensive health care and other social (all non-wealth creating) things into the government fold. The government does not make money, having the government do things is as bad as investing in housing was this last decade. Housing follows inflation it does not make money, government is inefficient it does not make money. The real money is in making stuff, adding value, and technology and production to secure that technology are imperative.

Everyone complains about the big union wages, well would you like to earn that kid of money? Of course you would, and when automakers made that profit Americans made the pay, the highest pay. Now you took that away, now everyone will make less...afford less....less American Dream....less everything. Other wages always followed union wages, it will not change and you will make less while you pay more in health care/taxes/etc and have less disposable income. That is what Americans are getting, and more of it every day. Other policy helps this along like poor energy policy and energy/commodity market manipulation, amazing patent and copyright roadblocks to innovation here (but not elsewhere!), and fat bloated legal, government, and health care systems that drain our cash away. We are no longer leaders, we are just stuck in the rocking chair. I thought this same thing when Harley and B&S failed, then had to have foreign companies engineer them new products to survive; what a joke. That is what you call a loser. Car companies are half way there and they are our last large scale manufacturing industry.

[Sheer Insanity]

[quote=sho305;1599978]365HP twin turbo, 6 speed paddle shifted AWD, all new car, might be a nice ride.
..Sorry,...I thought you said SVO.......:rolleyes:

[150aintenuff]

Not heard that much about the new PSD 6.4 other than like all of the new emissions motors they take more fuel (actually down to 1.99 here, strange). I have driven the old 7.3s all the way to the last one with a big chip and exhaust, and a 6.0 that pulls away from it and gets 21mpg empty all the time and its a crewcab 4x4. That 6.0 is sweet IMO, and he has never had any problems with it.


I HAVE NEVER seen a 6.0L get 21 MPG and I work with them daily..... and if you havent had issues you never saw a 6.0L.... turbo issues, cyl head issues, electrical issues... Variable turbine problems.. and the best milege I ever saw with a 6.0L was 17... on a totally empty regular cab long box 4x4 with the front axle driveline disconnected and out of the truck....

and a powerpack or six gun equipped 7.3 out runs a 6.0 every day of the week.... especially if its the 250 HP version with the .87 ratio turbo

[150aintenuff]

Seems like the american car companys need to get in touch with reality.The country is on the brink of a depression ,yet they continue to put junk out.Aaron

yet you own an american rig... HIPOCRITE!!!!! you best trade in that cummins equipped dodge you own and go buy a ridgeline...oh wait... the ridgeline is built here in america.... ok buy a tundra... oops also built here in america.... guess you better sell your camper, sell your boat, and everything you tow with your DODGE CUMMINS POWERED PICKUP.... because american rigs are JUNK...

[Powerplay25]

It will be nice to see the SHO come back. It was a neat car. Great performance for a sedan.

[sho305]

I HAVE NEVER seen a 6.0L get 21 MPG and I work with them daily..... and if you havent had issues you never saw a 6.0L.... turbo issues, cyl head issues, electrical issues... Variable turbine problems.. and the best milege I ever saw with a 6.0L was 17... on a totally empty regular cab long box 4x4 with the front axle driveline disconnected and out of the truck....

and a powerpack or six gun equipped 7.3 out runs a 6.0 every day of the week.... especially if its the 250 HP version with the .87 ratio turbo
Well yes you can do a lot with a 7.3, I drove one ('02?) with a chip and big exhaust. He said that is far as he can go and tow 10K lb and the 6.0 had more nut so guess I should have said comparable use trucks. IIRC that 7.3 has the larger intercooler/etc. The guy with the '04 6.0 did have a recall on the injectors and some minor issues but they have done nothing to the motor that he knows of. I do know if you chip them up to big hp you get a slew of issues. Not sure what to tell you on the mpg, he stays under 70 and I rode/drove a bunch of times and the computer says 19-21mpg. When we get fuel and figure it out it comes out the same. Its a crew with leather and all that stuff, 4x4, all stock. The worst problems seem to be rattling of doors and sway bar mounts. And the AC leaks. LOL, I just filled my old 7.3 and got 6.5mpg...but was mostly plowing snow.

Yeah I miss SVO/SVT. Not sure why Ford can't just scale back and keep those models going but they go all in or nothing it seems. Then they don't do basic performance models for other lines, and that seems stupid. Why not offer packages with a little more suspension/etc and less chrome it can't cost that much. Heck GM had that on near every Chevy it made for a long time. People remember SHOs and Grand Nationals, anniversary models, etc. I drove a bunch of F150 and the offroad models with more suspension sure felt like they had better control and composure, some even got better mpg and shifted less, seemed to go faster they likely had lower gears. The normal ones could not stay in OD only on flat land (4.6L).

[150aintenuff]

Well yes you can do a lot with a 7.3, I drove one ('02?) with a chip and big exhaust. He said that is far as he can go and tow 10K lb and the 6.0 had more nut so guess I should have said comparable use trucks. IIRC that 7.3 has the larger intercooler/etc. The guy with the '04 6.0 did have a recall on the injectors and some minor issues but they have done nothing to the motor that he knows of. I do know if you chip them up to big hp you get a slew of issues. Not sure what to tell you on the mpg, he stays under 70 and I rode/drove a bunch of times and the computer says 19-21mpg. When we get fuel and figure it out it comes out the same. Its a crew with leather and all that stuff, 4x4, all stock. The worst problems seem to be rattling of doors and sway bar mounts. And the AC leaks. LOL, I just filled my old 7.3 and got 6.5mpg...but was mostly plowing snow.

Yeah I miss SVO/SVT. Not sure why Ford can't just scale back and keep those models going but they go all in or nothing it seems. Then they don't do basic performance models for other lines, and that seems stupid. Why not offer packages with a little more suspension/etc and less chrome it can't cost that much. Heck GM had that on near every Chevy it made for a long time. People remember SHOs and Grand Nationals, anniversary models, etc. I drove a bunch of F150 and the offroad models with more suspension sure felt like they had better control and composure, some even got better mpg and shifted less, seemed to go faster they likely had lower gears. The normal ones could not stay in OD only on flat land (4.6L).


i HAVE towed a total gross weight of 37K lbs 6600 miles across the country and back with mine... and its a non intercooled, bighoss 120 hp chip equipped 7.3 with bigger injectors, bigger turbo, .87 housing and the works you could do to it in the day, and even with the 8" lift, 38's and stock 4.10 gears there isnt a stock 6.0 that can touch it... and my EGT;s arent even threatning the limmit of BANGDOM... peak EGT i ever saw was 1400 preturbo/ 1240 post turbo.... ad that was on a 9 mile 52 mph 16* grade at WOT in drive at 1900, i could drop 2 MPH and run in 2nd at 3600 and egt was 1150/1000... but rather not spin its guts out..

it chassis dyno'd at 305 HP/ 625 TQ in 2004, and IIRC 4wheel and offroad magazine dynoed the same year truck at 220 hp/450 tq to the wheels so the chip is working and making published gains if you figure in drivetrain losses..


there is a bit more turbo lag than the VVT turbos on the 6.0 but the best 7.3's never saw use in the "superduties" only the F550's got the really good ones.... bigger turbo, and a smaller turbine ratio.. (.87 vs .95 or 1.1) and were 250 or 275 HP stock, and chipped up and built could see as much as 450 before getting blow up happy....


the navistar people should have just put the heads and fuelsystem on the 7.3 that the 6.0 got... the DT444E was byfar a better motor than the VT365 ever will be... and the 6.4 AKA MAXXforce7 is uber CRAP.... and the twin turbo is less than desirable due to its limited design parameters.. if it was a system like the aroura system that ATS builds then it would be a better motor IMO..

[aaronmt73]

Sure like my CUMMINS 5spd:cheers: witha few extra goodies.

[150aintenuff]

Seems like the american car companys need to get in touch with reality.The country is on the brink of a depression ,yet they continue to put junk out.Aaron


Sure like my CUMMINS 5spd:cheers: witha few extra goodies.

and yet you make STATEMENTS LIKE THE ONES ABOVE!!!!

so what is it... american is junk, yet you like them.. :confused::confused::confused:

[aaronmt73]

Wouldnt touch a dodge for a second if it wasnt for the running gear.Cummins motor, 5spd, dana 60 front, disk brake dana 80 rear. The body, electrical and interior are inferior if ya really look at them.If it wasnt for the cummins I wouldnt own one. Aaron

[sho305]

i HAVE towed a total gross weight of 37K lbs 6600 miles across the country and back with mine....

Had some work on that one, sounds fun. Oops I said 10K lb that's not right must have been late. He pulls a 31' 5th wheel with triple slides, flat side, full height, fairly nice one I'm sure it weighs more than 10K his old one was 10 empty. Said he can stay in 3rd locked up on any hill until he was by Colorado and the trans got hot anyway going up a mountain, he had to stop for a few. He has a programmer you plug in then take it back out, but nothing like the mods you have. Those old guys don't like to mess with reliability that much. He has run from MI to CA, TX, FL, and between. The truck I have has been there and to AK with a smaller load.

I read the 7.3 PSD was rebuilt by Cummins, made by International. Ford says they made the new ones but not sure I believe them. I thought they changed the block to fit more valves in the head. Problem is the tight emissions, they are getting less mpg.

LOL, on a SHO thread. I'd love to get a new SHO but I don't see any new cars in my immediate future until other projects are done. Sure frees up a lot of cash not having any payments. I might have to find another wreck to fix for the next car, its a lot cheaper that way.