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View Full Version : Getting ready for Gelcoat and need help!



Georgia Boy
08-07-2002, 07:51 PM
ok guys I have been working on my little pain in the uh..... excuse me project boat, and am getting ready to start getting my tools for the gelcoat for this winter. I have never sprayed Gelcoat so this is a first for me, I worked for a body shop for a few years as a painter, but i am sure this is completely different. anyway what do i need in the way of a gun, and what type of gelcoat, also and where can i get it? How much will I need to cover a 17 foot V-hull? I am going to try this early so that if I screw up too bad i can have some one take over and do it for me! I want this boat race ready for next summer. all guys with gelcoat experience tell me what to look for and the do's and dont's. thanks in advance guys, Oh know of any books that give some instruction on this?

Techno
08-07-2002, 10:01 PM
Just curious, why don't you paint it?
More colors and you already have the experience.

Georgia Boy
08-07-2002, 10:48 PM
I have painted this boat several times, but I for some reason can not get paint to hold up, it chips easily, or flakes after about a year. It looks great, but i want something that will last a little longer than a couple of years. besides if the gel coat gets a little dull then i can have one of my employees buff it and wax it back, I on the other hand have to paint it again if it gets dinged up. i will take suggestions on paint also. perhaps someone can give me some info that i could use to make the paint hold better.

Pete 88 Venus
08-07-2002, 10:58 PM
GB,
paint!! much easier since you already have the experinece, like techno said.

The problem with gel coat is it is normally applied to the inside of a mold when a boat is built. Gel coat will not cure when it is left untopcoated. Exterior gel has a wax additive which lets it cure, it floats to the top and creates a barrier coat which allows it to cure. You would have to sand it off. Also gel coat for some reason doesn't like to lay down real flat so you would likely have to sand it and buff it anyway. As far as a gun is concerned, they do make gel coat guns but you could basically use any gun, though I've heard a siphon feed is usually better. They do reccomend a pretty large fluid nozzle, cuz it has to go on pretty thick, I think finished thickness has to be something like 20 mils. I've been dealing mostly with a company called US composites out of FL, they seem to have some good prices http://www.shopmaninc.com/index.html, I have also been using fiberglass coatings, who also has good prices www.fgci.com. I'm not too sure how much you would need, maybe about 4 gallons, just a guess though, but remember it has to go on a lot thicker than paint would.

If I were you I would just paint it, I've heard some horror stories of guys trying to gel who haven't had much experience with it, stuff like tiger stripes and the gel kicking in the cup as they were spraying.

I am going to paint my project with a good base-clear system, likely PPG. Though I did buy a few gallons of white gel for the inside of my hull, to seal it up real good, which I am going to try to spray on. I will let you know how it comes out.

Good luck
Pete

Pete 88 Venus
08-07-2002, 10:59 PM
What kind of paint system are you using?

vector mike
08-08-2002, 07:00 AM
I have painted a few boats and found out that the best durable surface was with ALL GRIP. Tried Imron and Chroma Base and they didn't seem to hold up as well.

Georgia Boy
08-08-2002, 04:11 PM
but I have tried a urethane base, and also polyurethane base, like imron, I just for some reason can not seem to make paint hold hold, tell me more on this all-grip, Vector Mike, they say it is tough, but i have never used it. is it similar to other paints as far as mixing, and spraying? where can you get it from, and what is a price comparison on it?

BarryStrawn
08-08-2002, 09:17 PM
http://www.uspaint.com/topcoats.html

vector mike
08-09-2002, 05:51 AM
The paint sprays just like any other two part epoxy paint. It is very durable and doesn't cost any more than your regular base coat/clear coat paint. I was given a price on Chroma Base at $269 a gallon and about had a heart attack. The last time I bought AWL GRIP it wasn't that much. It has been a couple of years since I painted with it but I can't imagine the price being that high now. And you only have to use a top coat , no clearing. I'm getting ready to paint my boat within the next couple of months so I will find out then what it costs now. It does depend on the color too for the price.

Georgia Boy
08-09-2002, 03:14 PM
the website though says it is not to be used under the water line, what do you paint the bottom side with?

activator22
08-09-2002, 09:53 PM
I painted my last boat with Awlgrip and have a few friends who have also Awlgriped their hulls - In order to get the best adhesion for the paint, you really need to shoot the epoxy primer on, don't try to spray the Awlgrip directly to the prepped gelcoat.

As far as Awlgrip and water immersion, as long as you don't leave your hull in for more than a week at at time, you'll never have problems. More than that the water does get through the paint (but not the epoxy primer) and can cause it to crack (the paint is incredibly hard)

The only other concern with Awlgrip that we had to deal with after it was on was taking care not to ding it - unlike Imron, which you can spot paint dings and buff out, Awlgrip does not buff out very well, it can be done, but takes a lot of time with 3M Finesse-it

Awlgrip holds up great though, the gloss is as high as you can get without clear coating and you can throw away the wax and polishing compound, all it needs is to be washed. My hull looked like it had just been painted 8 years later.

vector mike
08-10-2002, 07:51 AM
It's like activator said, it's not designed for bottom paint if the boat stays in the water all the time. If it does, you need some kind of an antifouling paint for the bottom. But for a trailer boat, the stuff is awsome!:D

sho305
08-31-2002, 12:52 AM
Had the same gripe with the transom I just did. It is above and below the water line, so what to use. I got this Interlux stuff called VC Performance Epoxy. It was cheap compared to car paint and ($38@US boats, both parts=2qts sprayable) had Teflon in it for fast boats and helps to make it easy to clean. It sparayed nice but dries flat and you have to wet sand it the next day or they say it gets hard in 4 days. I did and buffed it with a wheel. It came out great as this boat is slightly dull. Seemed like it would shine more after more dry time the way it rubbed. It was good, but not like a car-but I wanted that to match this boat. Not sure how it will hold. It says it is vinyl based, but would work over my epoxy. I'll put the polish to it in a while to see if I can get a power shine out of it. Also, it only comes in white I think. I put a little brown tint in it to match the boat's off white though. I used about half of it for the transom, and I'll do a whole boat if it works ok. It says it is a bottom paint in the info from them, and hard to find in there. I will if I have to, but hate to use two different products on a little powerboat.

BenKeith
08-31-2002, 06:39 AM
GA Boy,

Call Poly Guard at 800 842-7063 Merriatta GA www.polygard.com They have most everything you need, reasonable prices and not too far away.

If not then check with US Composites, there web site is www.shopmaninc.com or call 561 588-1001.

As for the spray gun, they make a special gun you can buy for a little over $100 or you can do like I did and get a different nozzle and fluid needle for your gun. Check with the company that makes your gun on what they recommend. There are some extra additives you are going to have to get to get the stuff to air dry.

As for actually sparying the stuff, don't have a clue, haven't tried it yet. I talked to a guy in Macon that does repair work and he says if you have your gel right, the gun setup right and know how to use it, you can get just as good of a finish with gel as with any good automotive finish, without all the finish sanding and buffing you hear about. But, let me say again, that's what he says I haven't tried it yet. He also says there are some other products that last just as long and a lot less trouble to work with.

Keith

nitewolf
09-01-2002, 06:51 AM
heres another product to keep in mind especially air inhibited gel coating someone mentioned earlier about a WAX coming to the top and letting the fiberglass cure some resins and gelcoats WILL NOT cure unless you keep them sealed from the air this stuff you can get from a autobody paint supplier its called USC MAGIC MASK:p it is also used to prevent overspray from getting on hard to reach areas or hard to tape areas but it works eqeally well on these (stubborn) gel coats its easilly removed either peel it off or rinse it off part # is no.36135 manufactured by u.s. chemicals & plastics massillon ohio ph#330 830 6000 c ya

sho305
09-03-2002, 11:37 AM
I am kind of bent; as with automotive finishes you have urethanes that are great products that are easy to use, very glossy, and hold up to acids and wear. I poured laquer thinner on a fender I painted less than eight hours after painting just for fun. It would not touch it even rubbing it around or soaking until it dried.

Why is there not a better thing than gelcoat after all these years for those of us that want it? How about an epoxy I can easily spray like a car finish?

vector mike
09-03-2002, 12:57 PM
AwlGrip is sprayed just like all other epoxy paints. I would say that it is the most durable stuff you can spray.My .02.:)

sho305
09-03-2002, 01:22 PM
How long can I leave it in the water? Sometimes I like to not pull it for a month. In our lake it will stay clean about that long. I guess I can pull it every weekend, but I think I should not have to here in the new Millenium...I do now, but only from water invasion paranoia.

I'll go look at the stuff. They still say above the water. I would use car paint but it chips so easy and you cannot build it up to any thickness to help. I suppose I could use it above the belt line, but I am worried about a color match and then I have to buy multiple products. You think it would be ok for 3-4 weeks in a fairly clean inland lake?

BenKeith
09-03-2002, 09:10 PM
GA Boy,

You still thinking about putting foam in. If so, how much you plan to use?

Looks like the best deal I can come up with is 45 cu.ft. I need about 20 cu.ft. If 25 is enough for you, we can split it. Doing this it will cost us roughly $100 each. We can divide it by cost per pound used. This is 2 pound per cubic feet flotation foam and is 96% closed cell so it don't get water logged. It is rated to float 60 pounds per cu.ft.

Most of the others seem to want $45 - $75 per eight - nine cubic ft.

Let me know if you're interested. I'll be getting it in the next week or so.

my email is keithjoneses@aol.com

vector mike
09-04-2002, 05:17 AM
I have never left my boat in more than a week. So more than that I really wouldn't know what kind of effect it would have on the paint.:)

Georgia Boy
09-04-2002, 10:26 AM
but I just got some the best way free! lol One of my good friends was a taxidermist here for a number of years before he started doing T.V. work and he use to use the closed cell foam to make deer forms out of. he had a couple of tanks left that can be srayed in and it is 96%closed cell, and is rouhgly 2 pound per cubic foot he said. so i think I am going to try it. have nothing to loose.

sho305
09-05-2002, 07:53 AM
I bought this foam to use on my dock. It is the same stuff they use for those colored tube toys the kids play with in the water. I had it cut to about 3x4" x 10' long, then nailed it deep on there with foam nails with the big washer. Then you paint it with latex as the sun will trash it. Makes a great bumper. You can get it at most foam companies but it is white. Maybe polyfoam closed-cell? Also, the foam company should be able to cut it into shapes for you if you want to pay...