VRO or not

[bob01081969]

I am thinking about my VRO unit on my 1988 V4 while she is a sleep in her winter break.

As I listen to a lot of good and bad info about VRO units I have been lucky with mine, as it has never failed to work and also I like the fact that I just pull up to the pump and not having to mix my fuel.

But I understand a lot of people have had very bad dealings with the VRO system and it has cost a lot of $$$ cash to fix their power heads. So what I am asking in a general question is should I remove the pump even though I have had no trouble with it, or do a great deal of you think it's only a matter of time before it fails.

Thanks SNF :cheers:
Bob,

[JWTjr.]

VRO got a bad rap from the first VRO pumps (1984-early 85) which failed often and had no warning module for a "no oil" situation. After that (86-on), I never had much trouble with any VRO pumps, either fuel or oil related. My experience is that they work well and are reliable. I've spent years in the shop rebuilding outboards for a living, for racing, and for friends, and I've seen very few VRO-related failures of any kind. It sounds like that's your experience as well, even if it's only with one engine (yours).

JT

[seahorse]

Most so called "VRO" failures are not the "VRO" fault and most mechanics are not really familiar with how the "VRO" really works, but are quick to blame it if a piston fails.

Because your motor is 20 years old, you should inspect your oil system carefully for brittle hoses, loose or wrong clamps, tank sludge and filter condition, alarm system operation, etc.

Here is a link to more info on the "VRO"

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html (http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html)

[bigbore]

better fuel and oil economy,but with mods its a must go.:cool:

[Laker]

They work great up to about 7500rpms......:thumbsup:

[Jeff_G]

Make sure your VRO has the tan colored nipple out the top and it should also have a plastic tag that says Alcohol Resistant. Also make sure the hot horn beeps when the key is turned on.
IF you decide to disconnect it simply plug the oil line inlet at the cowl, the motor comes with a cap and plug, and disconnect the warning horn harness at the VRO.
I don't have a problem running even high RPM's with it but would recommend additional oil pre-mixed if you commonly run over 6,500, at 50 to one.

[bob01081969]

Well I can't get the RPM's Laker gets I run low 6's at WOT, I do have a set of heads from 87 but I don't think I will be putting them on so I am safe in the RPM area.

From what I am getting from everyone here is that the VRO is a good unit when maintained by making sure everything is in good shape. I do like the idea of not mixing oil and gas when I don't need too. I am hopping once I get a lower unit to replace my old one (Blown) that may be all I do to the motor this winter.

[jphii]

You can put the heads on & get a little more bottom end. You won't get any more rpm's from them.

[Riverratt]

Leave it on. If it would not cost me soo much to put the vro's back on my V8 I would do it in a heartbeat.

[JrCRXHF]

The V8 on the boat does not have it. The one that i am rebuild now did have it.

I am going to run with out it.

Holly red pump FPR and Fuel gauge with a 50:1 mix after brake in.

[Laker]

I don't have a problem running even high RPM's with it but would recommend additional oil pre-mixed if you commonly run over 6,500, at 50 to one.

I went threw several early last spring in testing to see if I could use one on my V4. After 7500rpms I would get a sharp drop and surging in fuel pressure on each unit I tested. Below 7500rpms, fuel pressure was perfect and air motor pump works awsome.

[BenKeith]

I've gone back to running the oil injection on all my motors because I got tired of all the measuring and mixing. Love just driving up, pumping in my gas and going. However I don't build motors anymore that I turn more than 6,500 or so rpm because I only run them on big, heavyass bass boats and have a porting that seems to work best for those. I used to premix 100:1 in the tank with the VRO but with the newer synthetics, I haven't added any oil to the tank for three years and haven't seen any ill affects from it.

On an older motor with the original VRO, I lean toward disconnecting it if you're not willing to pay the $300 for a new CRO pump (five wire) they came out with in about 99. Granted, for many years and even still today, if a mechanic see's a VRO on a motor, that's the automatic blame for all failures. Over the years I've bought three motors that failed because of lack of oil that were running VRO. All three had water in the carbs and two of the motors came with all controls etc, and both of those had water in the bottom of the oil tanks, but the VRO got blaimed for the failures.

[ROLF]

There is only one place for the VRO pump/the garbage can.
Take you chances or mix your fuel.

[bob01081969]

WOW many opinions

[sharkcrazy]

I've replaced mine with a OMC replacement pump without the oil pump side. It might be a pain to add oil....But? A old fellow told me that VRO meant Very Risky Operation and it stuck.

[Jeff_G]

There is only one place for the VRO pump/the garbage can.
Take you chances or mix your fuel.

And this is based on....?????
As the owner of a service shop in business over 30 years, and certified master tech, I can tell you I have never seen the failure of a VRO that was not due to some outside problem, such as gelled oil, water in the tank, bad pulse fitting etc.

[BadHabit 21]

Had mine on ever since I bought the boat in '91'
Replaced it once due to leaking.
But never an oil related failure and I turn it safely at 6500

[76Stingray]

I just picked a 1985 Johnson 275, and was about to post the same question........cool....so what ditching it or keeping on an 85?? If i mix then i never have to worry.... right??

[Laker]

If i mix then i never have to worry.... right??

never about oiling as long as you remember to premix.... XD100 baby. Stuff is amazing!

[JWTjr.]

if it's the original pump I would replace it. The 84 and 85 engines had no provision for warning the operator of a no-oil situation. In addition they were not tolerant of alcohol laced fuels.

A new pump will work fine, and no remembering whether or not you put oil in the fuel.

JT

[bob01081969]

I drain my oil tank every spring and re-fill it, but this past year I changed the oil and went with synthetic.

1. Before changing to synthetic I used very little oil, but the motor smoked alot

2. When I started using synthetic I noticed oil consumption went up as much as twice as much being used? not sure why.

3. Using synthetic oil I noticed little to no smoke coming from the motor, and I don't know if it's just my amagination or not, but the motor seemed to run better, less vibration, and better idle? I know it's not all in my head, but hard to believe using a synthetic oil could make this many changes in the motor.

4. I didn't notice any change in the consumption of fuel, as I thought that would be one of the changes along with less smoke.

Any thoughts on this

Bob,

[QUICKSILVER]

It seems that some are confusing the VRO system, and the VRO pump, that happens to only be a part of the system. The pumps might have a good track record for failure, but the system as a whole has weaknesses, cracked fittings, bad hoses, water in the oil tank, gelled oil etc... So ,OK the pumps get a bed rap when something else in the system caused the problem.

To me it is something else to have to maintain, and worry about. At some point you have to pour oil in one tank or the other. All of the time I have spent pre-mixing oil in my lifetime is still less that the time it took to rebuild one engine that failed because of a VRO RELATED failure.

[Riverratt]

I know of people that had to rebuild their motors because they forgot to add oil in the gas so that arguement works both ways.

[wormburner]

after working in the industry for several years back in '84-89, and having my shop stacked with blown powerheads (as many as 27 at one time) from faulty VRO's, my opinion is easy......ditch it! without question, and without hesitation, ditch it. There's no better way to know what's going thru your carb than to mix it. Yes, its a bit more aggravation, but not really that bad once you get accustomed to it. Just my opinion.

[JrCRXHF]

For me it is easy 50 gallons of 93 oct.

1 gallon of oil

tank not so empty 25 gallons 1/2 gallon of oil i really do not see why it is so hard.

[David]

My brother has over 700 hours on his 89 200 Johnny with VRO. I would not dream of taking it off my 100 Johnson. For me, VRO is much more reliable than my extended family's ability to mix oil and gas.

[hydrostream1]

I have had a vro fail that the diaphram ruptured and there was fuel in the oil,diluted the oil and the powerhead seized up.

[HydraSports]

So would simply pouring half the oil needed into the tank, pumping gas in to mix it adding the rest and pumping more to mix, be a sufficiant method to mix the oil?

[captglm]

I don't know if everyone agree's but I add 50-1 oil to my gas tank just because I'm not sure if my VRO works correctly and I'm afraid it might fail. If your just a recreational boater and your not out to set a world speed record. I don't see why you can't run double oil. it smokes a little more but I feel alot better. I havn't fowled any plugs so far. Kinda like Chicken soup it might not cure a cold but it can't hurt.

GM ><>

[JrCRXHF]

I would not run like that for long term because it leans out the amount gas you have in the mix.

To much oil is not good either for the long term.

[TWilliam]

Ok, you opened up a can of worm with this topic. I will be short about this and tell you a few facts. Crappy dealer mechanics would blame the VRO pumps for everything from seized motors to low compression. In reality the VRO pump would help the longevity of your motor by running at 100:1 at idle. That is a big deal when it comes to carbon build up. That leads to rings sticking and scoring
not good to troll running 50:1 ive rebuilt alot of outboard and seen the effects.

[captglm]

Lots of opinions. but how do you really know your VRO pump is working the way it should? for example---Can it be working but still not pumping enough oil? Is there a certain pressure or flow rate? I put a mark on my tank and took the boat out and ran it for about 2 hour a various speeds. the oil in the tank went down about 1/2 inch below my mark. ( I estimated it used about 1 quart) It doesn't seem like its pumping enough oil. that's why I added oil 50-1 to the gas in the tank.. How can I tell if its working properly?

Thanks
GM ><>

[wormburner]

well, captglm, since we now have an expert involved, I'm sure he can answer this question for you. I'm sure they've made great strides in the VRO system since I was turning wrenches on 'em back in the mid 80's....well, hopefully anyway. To this day I still disconnect them on my personal engines and mix it. Funny, I don't worry about oil any more. There was some discussion about "forgetting to add oil"......WOW is about all I can say to that....hope they can remember gas, life jackets, air in tires, remove head from azz, etc.....but then again, I guess I'm just a "crappy dealer mechanic".

[Baja16]

Lots of opinions. but how do you really know your VRO pump is working the way it should? for example---Can it be working but still not pumping enough oil? Is there a certain pressure or flow rate? I put a mark on my tank and took the boat out and ran it for about 2 hour a various speeds. the oil in the tank went down about 1/2 inch below my mark. ( I estimated it used about 1 quart) It doesn't seem like its pumping enough oil. that's why I added oil 50-1 to the gas in the tank.. How can I tell if its working properly?

Thanks
GM ><>


There are consumption tests to verify they are working properly... basically you take a clear 1/4'' hose mark it in 1/2 increments, and it idle it should go down 1'' within 8-10 pulses of the pump and WOT it should go down 1'' within 3 pulses. That test vary's pending on models, but it gives you and idea.

Also the 85' and newer pumps have a sensor on the oil side of the pump and if it senses air the horn will sound...

[TWilliam]

Well, i would check the pick up assembly for clogs or bad filter. you can vacuum test it for air leaks.
This help move or purge any contaminates . I believe its 7-8 in. Hg for 5 mins. You can also check the fuel diaphram, i think its around 3 psi
engine running at 800 rpm. check the sight tube. Another importand thing is engine crank pressure is what drives the pump. so you should take this into consideration.:D

[powerabout]

Why cant we get a nice computer controlled device to pump the oil into the fuel line?
or via nozzles/cylinder?

[powerabout]

I used to put 2 pieces of clear plastic hose ( on the pump)calibrated held up into the air, large one and a small one( both open ended) and fill with fuel and the other with oil
Run the engine on the dyno or test prop and measure the oil and fuel usage.
In 5 minutes you'll know
a) its pumping oil
b) the ratios at different speeds ( this is load based so your test prop rpm oil consumption may not correspend to the consumption when on the water.)
I think I had a service bulletin that showed the rough consumption so you knew you didnt have the wrong pump on the wrong engine..

All the other issues are then rigging, fuel and or oil restriction, air leaks etc

[Travis37334]

For those of you who dont knw VRO stands for (Very Rarely Oil) but really variable ratio oiling ha

[captglm]

I just installed a new oil/temp warning buzzer. I hooked up the temp side wire and checked it bye grounding to the block.., it works just fine, I hooked up the VRO warning wire and got the 3 short beeps just like the book says, but when I turned the ignition on and started the motor the short beeps started immediately. -I have been running 50-1 since I bought the motor just to be safe while checking everything out. I even put a mark on the tank inside the boat to see if the VRO was working. It dropped around 1 quart for 12 gals of gas on 2 different outings. it also keeps the smaller tank on the motor full. everything seems to be working ok but the dam buzzer keeps beeping. If I take the VRO wire off it stops. I WILL BE GETTING THE KIT TO BLOCK OFF THE VRO ASAP!!!!!!!!. but just wondering why the dam buzzer goes off when it seems to be pumping oil ??????????

GM ><>

[sharkcrazy]

I replaced my VRO with a Omc replacement pump without the oil side part # 5007422 and mix my own. Best investment I've made

[Jeff_G]

captglm, you could have a bad sensor. You need to do a proper diagnostic of the VRO.
If you don't want to use the VRO simply disconnect the sender's wires, cap the oil hose and inlet, you don't need to buy a new pump.

[captglm]

Where can I get the VRO block off kit for a my 1993 Merc 200 pro max? and whats the cost? does any venders on here have it and whats the part number? serial #0D935264

Thanks GM ><>

[Baja16]

Where can I get the VRO block off kit for a my 1993 Merc 200 pro max? and whats the cost? does any venders on here have it and whats the part number? serial #0D935264

Thanks GM ><>


VRO's are used on OMC outboards not Mercs... i'd talk to Jay Smith (JSRE) about the block off kit for the Merc oiling system:thumbsup:

[flabum1017]

I have had a vro fail that the diaphram ruptured and there was fuel in the oil,diluted the oil and the powerhead seized up.


Hard to believe.... the fuel diaphragm is on the opposite side of the housing compared to the oil pump side. the only way fuel can get into the oil side is either a bad check valve or a bad oil piston to housing seal. If the oil were to be diluted by fuel, it would actually make it run richer of oil due to the oil being thinned out by the fuel and allowing it to flow easier through the pump. And if the dillution was severe, the oil tank would have over-flowed. The oil side does not use a diaphragm, instead it uses a piston. If you rupture a fuel diaphragm, you would end up running rich on oil and lean on gas. The same result would happen if the gas line were restricted. Your engine probably siezed for being lean on gas which can happen with any fuel pump failure.