Want to learn about outboards: need resources

[Brett]

This is my first posting on this web board. I have a 1988 Hydrostream Vegas Skier with a 1988 3 cyl 90 HP Mariner. I bought the boat used with a blown Merc 200 Black Max. Top speed is a whopping 34 MPH, but with a family with young girls and a wife who has never been boating, it’s perfect. I take the kids tubing, and by the end of the summer, they should be skiing. It can even pull me up on my slalom without dropping a ski. In a few years, I would like to replace this engine with something larger. Here are my conditions: (1) A motor that when propped for skiing, can pull a competition level slalom skier through the buoys. (2) For safety, when my girls are old enough to take their friends out in the boat alone, a motor with limited horsepower such that when propped for skiing, it won’t go to pad. (3) When propped correctly, I can take it to pad and have some fun! Now getting to the heart of the matter: although I’m not new to boating or mechanics, I’m new to outboard engines. I would like to find something used, but besides a compression check, gearcase check and overall condition of the motor, don’t know what else to look for. There is no website or other resource that I know of that will tell you that one year or feature is better than another. For instance, is a 1988 Mariner 200 the same as a 1988 200 Mercury Black Max? What’s the difference between Johnson and Evinrude? Plus, the terminology confuses the hell out of me (VRO, Looper, Ficht). Maybe I’m used to the plethora of materials for cars, but since I have a few years to educate myself, were should I start? What can I read? I’m willing to learn about the mechanics as well so I can work on my own motor but don’t have the time to hang out at the marina. Should I go with the factory manuals or are there other resources? Thanks in advance for the help!

[Talon2.5]

do your best to get factory manuals!! the aftermarket ones in my opinion are terrible!!

always check the techboard and most likely in the archives any questions you have can be answered right away or with the search feature

welcome to S&F!!!!!

[skatermike24]

Welcome to Scream & Fly, Alot of good people here, if you have a question about a outboard, this is the place.;) :cool:

[LaserModVee]

This is the place to learn about outboards.

Like Skip said, use the search feature and ask questions.

I am no expert on Hydrostreams or outboards, but my suggestions for the next motor would be the route you are going.
If you had a 200 and a jackplate on the boat, you could raise the motor and put your go-fast wheel on for playing on the pad. When you turn the girls loose in the boat, drop the motor way down and put a low pitch ski prop on.

I could see it serving double duty very easily. A hydraulic jackplate would make it even easier.

[Scott]

Welcome to S&F Brett

I wish I could be of more assistance but these guys won't even let me take my waterwings off yet! I would be clueless to answer your Q's but I'm bettin someone here sure can!

[Raceman]

Welcome to Scream and Fly. It's the best site for outboarding plain and simple.

As far as your dual purpose engine, I don't think it's practical by just changing props. If you pitch it down enough to not "get on the pad" with the kids there are several problems. First, the girls would have a tremendous accelerator on their hands, which can be risky in itself. Second, there's the potential for turning a stock motor too hard, (too many RPM's) especially if it's oil injected, when it's severly under pitched. Also, while it's true that most outboards, especially Mercs live better with a few extra RPM's than not nearly enough, some don't do well when operated at mid range a lot without much load. This condition creates relatively high RPM with moderate throttle setting. That's not to say that you can't pitch it down slightly for more load (skiing), but certainly not enough to drastically limit top speed.

I think if you're going to let the girls run it with their friends, first you're gonna have to do a lot of training, and second a mechanical throttle limiter of some type with correct propeller is the only practical limit I can think of.

[Brett]

I think if you're going to let the girls run it with their friends, first you're gonna have to do a lot of training, and second a mechanical throttle limiter of some type with correct propeller is the only practical limit I can think of.
That's strikes to the heart of the question. I am not looking for a rocket ship on water, just enough to get up on the pad and let the hull perform like it is supposed to. If I can have the type of performance with a 125 or 150, that's fine with me. From what I've read so far, my speed will need to be around 60 mph to plane on the pad. In other words, I'm trying to strike a happy medium between the different ways this boat will be used. thanks for the input so far; you've been very helpful!

[Sam Baker]

Brett, our shop is about 20 minutes from you in Antioch, IL. My brother and I practically grew up in the HydroStream plant as Dad designed boats there. If you haven't been by the shop yet, feel free to stop by sometime. If you can make it down on a Thursday Night, we'll take you out to Blarney Island to watch the races. You're more than welcomed to put in at the shop and head out there with us.

We'll answer any questions you may have.

Sam

[captcarb]

It is common practice in the water ski shows that run outboards to run 17 pitch props which allow the motors to go to the rev limiter, when not pulling a skier. I have seen this on any thing from single 150's to tripple 175 installations, also dual 225,s They generally are pulling pretty good loads however.
Jim

[Brett]

Wow Sam, That's a great offer! I'll check with the family calendar and let you know what Thusday I can show. Thanks!!!

[LaserModVee]

Great point on the acceleration!

Drawing from experience on my part~

At 12 years old, my Dad taught me to drive a boat with a 1984 Checkmate open bow w/a 2.6 XP Evinrude. He rigged it with a Hotfoot which made things safer. You could rig up a mechanical throttle limiter fairly easy on one of those, I would imagine. I never got that far though, he was always sitting in the passeger seat if I were driving. As I got older, he upgraded boats and eventually turned me loose at 16 in his 240 Baja with a 365 hp 454 mag I/O. By that time I was a fairly responsible, seasoned driver.....well, at least for a kid.

Like I said, I am by far no expert, just sharing.

[Brett]

Thanks for the reply Captcarb. My daughters are only 10 and 11. Bottom line: When old enough they will either prove to me they can use common sense in a boat as a driver or a passenger, or the boat stays at the dock. My hope is that with six or seven years of boating with myself and my family, they will appreciate the responsibility and knowledge owning and operating a boat requires. This is also why I am doing the research now.

[captcarb]

I just noticed you live in WI. There are several water ski shows that use outboards near you. They can tell you about propping down an outboard for skiing. Be aware that most of them get new motors every year, but they do put a lot of hours on them in one year.

Go to this web site to look them up:
http://www.showski.com/

The Janesville, Twin Lakes, Rockford, and the Badgerland team near Milwauke all use outboards, mostly merc, but Badgerland was using OMC the last time I saw them. They all have a lot of experience with this stuff, and have tried almost everything.

Jim

[Brett]

It always amazes me what resources are so close at hand when you know were to look. Thanks for the info! I thought ski shows only used inboards.

[Sam Baker]

We rigged triple 175 Evinrudes on the Twin Lakes Aquanuts Hydrodyne. We can certainly help you there.

When I was about your daughters' age, I had a HydroStream Ventura with a Johnson 55 HP 2 cylinder on it. It would run about 38 mph or so. Great learner boat. Couldn't get into much trouble, but it looked cool even with the little motor on the back. My friends and I could ski and hydroslide behind it. I was lucky - that's for sure. Not too many people that age have their own Ventura.

I finally sawed the motor in half running it wide open....."klak klak klak....what's that sound?....KLAK KLAK KLAK....Maybe I ought to open it up and try and make it home....KLAK KLAK THUNK."

That was the end of her. I had never blown up a motor before. Didn't know the tell tale sounds. Unfortunately I've heard it a few times in my life.

Sam

[captcarb]

WI is a hot bed of big time ski shows. They have proven that a multi engined outboard will outpull an inboard with the largest engines available. They have proven that 2 or 3 propellers will pull more that 1.

It is difficult (but not impossible) to get the nice throttle response that an inboard ski boat has at low speeds with an outboard.

The big shows have also learned that they can buy very durable outboard boats and get sponsor motors new every year easier than getting new inboards every year.

Even the shows that are sponsored by inboard builders usually have one twin engined Hydrodyne for pulling the big multi pyramids and the big barefoot lines.

There is a show that is pulling 10 skiers in a 360 around the boat act that they are pulling with a highly modified 500 hp Mastercraft because of its turning ability.

Check them out.

Jim

[Markus]

Check out my links page. I have tried to collect useful stuff over the years and I thought I could just as well make it public.

[vector mike]

Talking about putting a throtle stop on the motor to limit how fast it will go, MERCURY has a wide open throtle stop on there older V6's making it real easy to set it for those inexperienced hot boater's.

[Brett]

Mike,
What years had this feature?
Thanks,
Brett

[vector mike]

Mine is an 84 200 that has it on it.