DFI - The future?

[Scream And Fly]

What do you all think of DFI?

Greg

[Greg Moss]

I really think the DFI will keep the 2 stroke alive. The four stroke will show sooner or later that it is to damn exspencive to purchase and repair. Wait till the guy's don't do the maintinence on one and it screw up then you will hear I wish I had My 2 stroke back. With bombardier not going four stroke I think it will help the 2 stroke survive!

[JW]

But we wont be talking outboards! I/O's!! The way the manufacturers keep raising the price of OB's, they'll ALL be gone by the wayside. Price will kill the 2 stroke and the 4 stroke OB. That will REALLY suck. I can buy a brand new 4Winns bow rider with a 4.3 190 hp V6 on the trailer for $15k. A new 225+ horse 2 stroke OB with controls is almost that much alone!!!
Our only consolation is the number of rebuildable blocks out there. That will keep us in 2 stroke heaven for a while longer......

[halveb]

I think DFI will create a place for the 2 stroke outboard but JW has a good point. You can buy a helluva performance inboard mated to a Bravo drive for $15,000. Outboards are gonna price themselves out of the market. I might have to sell my outboard and go back to my jet full time....not!!!!

I would like to get the jet running so my wife will ride in a boat with me again though.

[BuickTurboSix]

Bombardier is investing large amounts of money to keep the 2 stroke alive. They say that they want to get away from buying other MFG's motors to sell. So this may mean that the DI motors have a big future with them. And that would be good for us!!!

Time will tell.:cool:

[Greg Moss]

You don't let the price of those cheap boats fool you! Those stern drives for $15,000 are four cylinders with no add ons. You ain't buyin a Bravo for that kind of money. And that 15,000 boat will not perform with the outboard. And the maintenance of a stern drive is ALOT more than a outboard. I work on them let me tell you. 60% of all boats sold have outboards on the the rest are v-drive, jets and jetski's, and sterndrives, and straight inboards. 70% of my work is Mercruiser! So it's kind of a pay me know or pay me later. The reason that those packages are so cheap is 1- they get you on repair parts. 2- to keep the compition (Volvo) away. Mercruiser already drove Yamaha out of the stern drive market , they didn't allow OMC to make it in the market. I don't think you will ever see a 80mph stern drive bass boat. the outboard will not die, there is no way to get the performance from a stern drive as an outboard for the same Horse power and wieght or money. You can stick a stock outboard on the back of a 18 foot boat and it will hit 100mph for a lot less than a Motor for a stern drive would cost and the reliability of the out board is so much better.

[JW]

You're lumping in all the little fishing rigs and pontoons into that OB stat. I'm thinking what sells in the family play market, and that's bow-rider generic boats and deck boats. Right now, I can drive 3.5 miles up my street to the 4Winns dealer that'll sell me an end-of-season V6 bow rider for that $15k.
Sure the OB is faster and is easier to maintain, we all know that, but those people aren't thinking that way. They're looking at getting the family into a boat, and for under $20k there is no other way! For spending a day on the water, you can't beat the 'initial cost', the fuel mileage, and quietness. That's all the generic boat buyer is looking for.

6 months ago the cheapest outboard new boat I could price at Checkmate was a 17' open bow with XR6 classic, single axle trailer and few options for $20k. I could save a couple grand by going with a 115. Same with Hydrostream. They would definately be faster than a V6 I/O, but when wifey eye-balls the $5k difference in price and sees a slightly larger boat........................
I sold my V6 I/O Bow rider to get back into my Promax/Pulsare. Love my outboard, except when I'm pulling a skier or tubes and sucking that gas.....

P.S.... The 4 cyl I/O 4Winns with no add-ons was $11,995............

[halveb]

Greg,

The $15,000 I was talking about was just for the motor and a bravo drive not including the hull. Only way to compare since a new 2.5 EFI is around $15,000. Of course the hull is gonna add another $5,000 to $15,000 depending on what you get but you're in the same boat (no pun intended) with an outboard.

The only problem is there isn't really a ready market for 18 to 21 foot performance I/Os so you have to build your own. There goes the warranty, etc.

[Hydrovector]

As a supplier of parts to Mercury I have seen some of the Future.
and it dosen't look good!!!!!!

[wierdkid]

i think the reason why we are seeing such an increase in prices is R&D. w/ merc the issue is that theyre trying to make the 4 strokes comparable to their 2 stroke and putting more into the performance sterndrives since they can provide more money and sponsorship ops than the o/b racers. and for bombardier they're workin on making the john-rudes compete with the merc 2-strokes which is quite away to go (every source i know told me before bombardier, the smaller motors had problems with driveshafts and bearings)

[Charlie M]

As far as I am concerned the majority of the market is for fishing boats. The percentage of the market for pleasure boats is limited. The buyers on trailerable fishing boats always wants a O/B powered rig. A few die hard auto mechanics may want I/O's but if they keep into the sport they will buy O/B's. The market will lean towards 4-strokes.......but I believe OMC's new owners will keep the 2-stroke market alive, at least hope so. Keep the hippie tree-huggers happy with clean water and it may just work.

[machinist]

I hope DFI keeps the 2 strokes alive, the 2strokes are the best
ob power plant period. The four strokes arent emerging because
there better, they are being forced down our throat, because
it fits some tree hugers evirometial groups agenda. They arent
gonna give up easy, if and i say if they get thier way with the
ob then what they goin after next?:mad:

[wierdkid]

i find it ironic that the fisherman are the ones that want the 2-strokes. the fisherman are looking to promote the health of the fisheries and thusly keep the water clean, but when it comes to engines they use the ones that supposedly pollute more. however, the optimax engines have better fuel economy than a comparable honda 4-stroke(and i'd imagine any other 4-stroke marine engine) and therefore probably produces fewer emissions.

my 2-stroke brothers we must unite and restore the good name of 2-stroke technology and defeat the evil hippies!!! :D

[Greg Moss]

JW if you go back to the same Four Winns dealer you will be able to purchase the same boat with a 130 Johnson for the same money. For the same money you get reliability and performance. The new model outboard are quiet and cost effective. Sure I am grouping fishing boats and pontoons into the same group but I have a friend with a pontoon and a Yamaha sterndrive in it so they fit into this group just fine. Also have a tidecraft bass boat here with a 140hp Mercruiser in it so fishing boats go here too. HalfB $15000 for a Bravo engine package No way unless you find one that has been sitting for 5 years and not sold. A 496 Engine package is gonna cost you 30grand. If you caqn find a small block engine package with a bravo drive you are looking at over 20 grand. For $15000 you might find a small block package with a Alpha drive. 260 HP They are about the same price as the outboards for the same HP. If you shop you can find a 280 carry over for $12000 new in the box. So there really isn't a pricing issue here. The thing is people think cause they have a motor like that in their car that it should last in their boat. Propblem there is that they don't run their car at 5000rpm all day. Wait til they don't flush their sterndrive for a while and they have to buy manifolds and risers. That's a grand installed or more! I been doing this for a long time and make most of my money working on sterndrives so let those idiots keep buying them I like to eat!

[halveb]

Greg, I will defer to your experience in the I/O market since I can't say I have shopped or purchased. I was able to buy a 400hp 454 for my jetboat installed for $4,000.

I know it ain't a Merc Cruiser but if that's what they want for one of those bad boys I will stick to jetboats if the O/B market dries up. Got into outboards cause I couldn't find anyone who wanted to work on the jetboat and I thought O/B would be cheaper and easier. I found that they weren't cheaper for sure and the jury is still out on easier but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that my current motor lasts a few seasons.

One thing is for sure. I went from a 55MPH jet to a 90+ MPH O/B and I will be very reluctant to go back (except for pleasure cruising and giving folks showers). I still like the idea of blowing jet skier's off their rides with a blip of the motor as suggested on another thread awhile back. :D

[BLACKBIRD]

I have a customer that is looking for better props for his 225 yamahas. the truth is clear when he says that he can get in the correct wot rpm, but he boat in PIG getting on plane.
DFI is the way go, better fuel economy, more power , faster top end, and now there even quiet.!!

[Sam Baker]

I don't think there is any question that there is definitely a place for DFI. The DFI engines (I'm talking directly about Evinrude) are every bit as quiet, cleaner (at this point) and about 100 lbs. lighter than a four stroke. They will definitely stay alive and i believe they will flourish.

Sam