Voltage Regulator

[tomoad]

I have a 16 amp system, I have been thinking of unhooking the voltage regulator. but would like to know if their are any cons. i run a bosch fuel pump,humminbird gps/depth finder 787c, hydralic jack plate,trim, I am pretty sure I am not charging the battery much going down the lake to my fishing hole, The only reason I am bringing this up, I recently pulled the battery (new battery) to do some rewiring better(neater) charged the battery & installed & went fishing the motor ran like a different motor(wow). I have read some older posts on this, & according to what was discussed and everything I'm running off of that 1 battery unhooking the voltage regulator would charge the battery more. I'm usually running in the 11v to 12.4v, I have never seen it in the 13.5v to 14.5v range. What are the cons of not running a regulator, fried battery, fried ecu?, my battery is the wet type, interstate 24 group 1000 cca deep cycle

[4JawChuck]

DON'T DO IT!

Can't think of one good reason or how it would it be better, only bad things come to mind. If it's not charging you have other problems somewhere, 11-12.4 VDC while its running means its not charging.

[Carter Powell]

If you have a wet cell battery it probably won't cause you any problems. I have been running a 2.5 EFI 260 that way for years. Running without a VR on a 16 amp system can sometimes charge your battery a little quicker if you have a lot of current draw on it that is draining it faster than normal. Sometimes you may get as much as 16 to 17 volts going into your battery. If the battery is really low this should not cause you any problem. The problem starts to occur when a battery if fully charged and then you begin to overcharge and now you are causing the battery to start boiling off fluid.

Best wishs, Carter Powell

[tomoad]

why does it cause a problem with the gel batteries?

[j_martin]

why does it cause a problem with the gel batteries?
Because a gel battery, by design, cannot boil off fluid.

[tomoad]

thanks

[Jay Smith]

:iagree::iagree: I have a customer that is having issues with the optima batteries with 260 charging electrics..

Jay

[4JawChuck]

Having had two batteries (wet cell) blow up due to overvoltage caused by a bad regulator I wouldn't do it unless you are racing only.

[pyro]

On a 9 amp or 16 amp system it's probably no big deal. My Bridgeport doesn't have a regulator, and it has all it can do to keep the battery charged below 4000 rpm with no accessories.

[4JawChuck]

I'm willing to bet that 787 GPS/Finder and Bosch fuel pump won't like 17 VDC.

Just my opinion, but think of how much being wrong could cost you.

Why not just fix the charging system?:confused:

[tomoad]

Jaw, I using more power than is being charged back, its working fine

[4JawChuck]

http://www.tweakit.net/shop/images/bosch_fuel_bosch_ext_9104.gif

This "910" pump draws 10 A @ 72 PSI for 130 L/hr.

http://www.tweakit.net/shop/images/bosch_fuel_bosch_ext_0444.gif
This "044" Bosch pump draws 15.5 A @ 72psi for 200 L/hr.

Which pump do you have?

[SatisfAction]

Bump... I did the same thing and was running a holley red regulated at 6lbs. I was lucky to charge the battery any. I have a perko switch and dual batteries... one for cranking and the other for tunes,etc. Never had a problem with frying batteries.



On a 9 amp or 16 amp system it's probably no big deal. My Bridgeport doesn't have a regulator, and it has all it can do to keep the battery charged below 4000 rpm with no accessories.

[pyro]

Just so we understand what we're dealing with--

Many of the 200's and such have 40 amp charge systems that REQUIRE a regulator.

For those of us with a 9 amp or 16 amp charge system on an EFI motor, it consumes nearly as much as it charges. The fuel pump draws 5-10 amps, and the ECU draws close to 5 amps while running. The battery discharges under 3000 RPM, and charges over 3000 rpm.

[tomoad]

Jaw, I have run the bosch 984.And run a Brucato PCU,

[4JawChuck]

I wonder what Mr Brucato would say about running unregulated voltage/power to the EFI controller? There might be a limiter built-in to the Brucato pwr supply which makes only your GPS/Sounder combo at risk.

[pyro]

All of today's 12V devices have internal voltage regulators.
I'm lucky if I ever see my voltmeter rise above 12 volts. runs like a raped ape.
Look Ma, no regulator...
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4127/dsc03141asx2.jpg

[tomoad]

Pyro, Is yours a 16 amp? I have turned my motor in the 8 grand, I wonder what kind of juice it would put out then.

[tomoad]

I've unhooked the regulator, but do i wire the yellow & red together or just tape them off for now?

[pyro]

I don't even understand how the regulator functions here. Mine doesn't have one.
This is the diagram out of the OEM servfice manual. It looks like you would just unhook it. :confused:
Mine doesn't have the rev limiter module either. :D

http://i33.tinypic.com/10nt102.jpg

[j_martin]

The voltage regulator is supposed to shunt excess to ground. A good battery is just as effective. If your system current draw is near the max output of the charging circuit, I would think this regulator is unneccessary.

As speed increases with any alternator, the voltage output increases proportionately, as does the frequency. This stator will put out about 15 volts per 1000 rpm, so it starts charging at just above idle. The current output, however, is limited by the amount of iron in the core. It won't go above 16 amp under any conditions. The load (rectifier, battery, etc) pull the voltage down to running specs.

To sum it up, the alternator is a current source power supply. If the output current exceeds the load, it will have to be voltage regulated to prevent damage to other components.

hope it helps
John

[pyro]

The voltage regulator is supposed to shunt excess to ground. A good battery is just as effective...
John

That's what it looked like from the schemo, like it just "pulls down" the voltage. Thanks for clarifying, John.

[tomoad]

well I ran it today,Ran like as Pyro said "raped ape'' It never got over 13.5 v, I turned it up to about 7700 rpm's & plenty left. I also moved the pcu from in the boat to on the motor. It ran the best it has ever ran, Heck I had to learn how to drive it again, man what a difference, nothing like running 70 to 75 mph and stab the gas and it pin you to the seat, I love it. I removed the regulator & wiring this evening from the motor. I still can't beleive how it ran. WOW!!!

[4JawChuck]

Sounds like you had a bad regulator, they don't pull down until voltage exceeds 13.5 VDC.

Glad you had a good result!

[tomoad]

Well that part is GONE!!! Don't need it

[grembano]

Hello to all
also I have one Mercury 260 hp 2.5 efi that charges the battery, not so much
in the boat I do not have gps, car stereo etc.
the fuel pump consumes 4.5A.
to recharge the battery remain about 1 or max 1.5A and the battery voltage is 12,4V only with the engine running.
the only thing more is the power lift.
every 2 or 3 rounds, recharge the battery.
I do not understand English very well, and use google to translate, sorry for mistakes
for what I understand, you must completely eliminate the voltage regulator?
without voltage regulator, however, the voltage is much more of 12v?
does not break anything?

[outasite]

If your 260 is still a 16 amp system it does not need a regulator,it only needs a GOOD working rectifier.Check your battery voltage when running at 4/5000 rpms if you are not showing 13 or more volts,I would suspect the rectifier is bad.

[grembano]

the stator and the flywheel are original 2.5 efi race outboard and the rectifier is new
in summer I replace 2 rectifiers because they break
whereas the motor is running at 4000/5000 rpm, the battery voltage remains 12.5 / 12.6V

[outasite]

Have you tested the rectifier with a meter? Its possible the stator is bad, but most often the rectifier. It is very easy to blow a rectifier, loose battery cable bad ground and a dozen other things,Ive seen guys go through three or four before finding the real problem.

[grembano]

the stator is new and original mercury, I did about 10 hours of motion, and the rectifier has about 4 engine hours
the problem of insufficient battery charging and rectifiers I had even before replace all.
I can put the original part number that I mounted on the engine because I still have the boxes

[grembano]

here are the pictures of the spare parts.
the stator in the picture is the original of my engine and has the same codes of the new parts.
the rectifier in the picture is one of those burned, but always original parts.
the rectifier was changed because the tachometer is dead and that's a symptom of a defective rectifier
341394341395341396341392341393

[outasite]

You will need a Mercury service manual,and a good multi meter.follow the procedure for checking the stator,and rectifier.At this point you really need to do some testing with a meter!-------My gut feeling is somthing is burning out the rectifiers, as fast as your replacing them.

[grembano]

I have the engine workshop manual and I have tried several times to measure the broken rectifiers before changing with the manual process.
the first warning of the rectifier failure, is the signal loss of the engine tachometer.
the stator in the picture has been replaced because it does not charge the battery.
with this broken stator, the motor turns 4/500 rpm more because not charged.
However, following the whole verification process to the bench, the stator seems ok

[grembano]

Hello guys
yesterday I tried to remove the voltage regulator but on the meter unfortunately I always read 12.5 v but rising rpm the voltage tends to drop

[grembano]

I forgot one thing
If I measure the voltage at the first rectifier stator cables, I read 17 volts
while if the measure I do it on the battery with the rectifier connected I always read 12.5V even at 5000rpm
I'm going crazy:confused:

[j_martin]

The stator output is AC. Open circuit (not connected to anything but a volt meter) it should put out about 15V per 1000 rpm. Yep, that's right, 75V or so at full speed. The current is limited by the amount of iron in the stator and the strength of the magnets, so at a dead short it won't put out more than it's rated current.

Hooked up to a rectifier or regulator, the wave form gets distorted, so if you see over 12V AC, it's probably OK. A DC meter will read wacko, so whatever it reads is probably not useful. The distorted waveform is what the tachometer uses. It'll be roughly a half wave DC pulse.

I don't have time to read the whole thread, so I don't know exactly which engine you're working on. Most rectifiers are a bridge rectifier. Regulators are usually a PWM or rectifier-buck circuit that's a whole 'nother ball game.

here's a plan. Hook up a tail light bulb or something like that to the stator wires. If the bulb lights bright or burns out when your rev the engine, the stator is good. Rectifier or regulator, if good, still needs to be grounded and hooked up corectly. Check that all out and it should go. approximately 13.8 - 14.2V on the battery at some speed above idle.

[j_martin]

Just went back and looked. I'm with ^^^. You have a loose connection or something immediately killing the rectifier. The stock rectifier is junk. It's a 40 0r 50Volt, 15A, TO5 (small tin can) case pressed into an aluminum plate and potted (insulated) with epoxy. Looking at it crossways will kill it. I use one of many available 25 or 30 amp bridge rectifiers available. Minimum of 200V to take accidental open circuit (bad connection) circumstances.

346281

[grembano]

Thanks J-Martin for the help.
I made some measurements and saw that the original rectifier is a crap.:eek:
I mounted a rectifier like what you have sent me the picture and now the voltage with the voltage regulator connected no higher than 13.5 / 13.8 volts
the new rectifier is this: KBPC2502346700346701

[outasite]

Thanks J-Martin for the help.
I made some measurements and saw that the original rectifier is a crap.:eek:
I mounted a rectifier like what you have sent me the picture and now the voltage with the voltage regulator connected no higher than 13.5 / 13.8 volts
the new rectifier is this: KBPC2502346700346701
Perfect!!! ya got it.

[j_martin]

Yer welcome. If you disect the old one, you'll find the working part of it looks like a TO5 transistor. Way wimpy.

347113

[pappa pete]

Chris Carson's Marine