What tunnel to buy for speed, stability, etc....

[Arizona Hotboater]

Well, I love my Valero, as much as I loved my V-king. These hulls accellerate like crazy, and get great top speed, but they just dont ride well in the lakes in my area. Anywhere else these hulls are great but the lakes here are very small, very overcrowded and always VERY rough. I want a hull that I dont have to slow down at 75mph for a 2 foot wave. My Sleekcraft Aristacrat 21' tunnel would cruise over these easily and had plenty of room, but it was so darn heavy it wouldnt accellerate for crap and needed big power to get over 80.

So heres my wish list: Decent accelleration, good rough water handling, stable at high speed, 90+ mph, roomy, and I dont want to spend a fortune. The STV Euro was my 1st choice but can it handle the rough stuff? They are pretty roomy for a boat that size. I dont want an HST, Virage, or Mirage because they dont have enough room. I dont want a light layup Sleekcraft SST because 1 step on the bow and you'll go right through. So, I was thinking a cougar, liberator, eliminator or sleekcraft SST with standard layup. I saw a 21 liberator without power and in need of paint for $1500 a while back. Wish I'd bought it. I have also seen other hulls like Bahner, Haskel, and some other lesser known tunnels, but heard they are pretty heavy.
Any suggestions?
Thanks, AZH

[Firestarter]

AZH

I as always will push the STV, It does very well in rough water, I can run 100, in a 2 foot chop. It is a great boat with few drawbacks.
The new family and performance mag has a test on a Triad built Euro. It's only drawback is that at speeds below 30mph it does take a little mist over the front, when you hit waves.

Thats my opinion

RT

[WillyT]

First, I never thought my 20'2" Sleek Aristocrat was all that heavy. The 1977 catalog says 960 pounds, if I remember correctly. I don't think an Allison Grand Sport weighs much less,for example. The later catalogs (like 1978 or 1979, or whenever the SST was first introduced) always listed the Sleek SST as being the same weight as the Aristocrat (i.e., 960), but who knows for sure? Those old Sleek tunnels are certainly not as fast, horsepower for horsepower, as the STVs, Mirages, Hydrostreams, Allisons, etc., but they won their fair share of MOD-VP races early on, and would run in the 90s with the MOD-VP engines of their day. Replace those heavy wooden-based seats in those things and the true weight goes down considerably (I can get a hernia trying to lift my back-to-back buckets). Now, for other recommendations. I think one of the best true pleasure tunnels (i.e., user friendly in the real world while still being fast) is the Stoker 20'. Set up correctly, these can run near 100 mph with a 225 ProMax and can easily exceed 100 with a 280. They take rough water about as well as any tunnel their size and are of extreme high quality. Still not as fast as an STV or Mirage, but then again, what is? The Stoker has more room and has no "quirks" to learn in order to drive it safely. Put hydraulic steering in it, pointed where you want it to go, and have fun. I have given serious thought to a Stoker 22' with a 300X ProMax as my next "family rocket". Good luck; there are certainly a lot of brands from which to choose. I think at some point we "non-professional racers" all have to decide if we want a small "all out" rocket that is not all that forgiving and comfortable, or something less finicky, more comfortable, safer in the rough stuff and with more room (while still being a real "hot boat", of course).

[Arizona Hotboater]

RT,
I value your opinion with the kind of experience you have. I dont mind the low speed misting. My Valero does that a little in rough water, but with 110* heat it is welcome. I have never ridden in one but I have looked at one on a trailer. The roominess is good enough for me, I was just concerned about the 85 mph porpoise I have read about, and the strength of the hull in rough water. I did hear from someone who has a Mirage that they arent that stable in rough water. Since the Mirage is similar in weight, length and hull design to the STV, I wasnt sure if the Euro was for me. I want a rock solid (safe) ride. It is likely the lightest boat of all my choices so it should have great accelleration.
Thanks for the info. Anyone else have an opinion?
AZH

[Firestarter]

The 85mph problem is because the boats are not set-up correctly, or driven right. My last euro, any idiot could hop in and run 110 safely, it was the easiest boat I have ever been in to drive. You are lisening to people that have this problem most are with pro comps, which are a lot different boats. (same bottom, different balance and aerodynamics). The Euro will not bounce with seven inches of setback, (do not run setback on the procomp or rocket), and a lightining ET prop is the simplest set up. I no little of mirages, only that the STV is faster, and much more stable.

RT

[Arizona Hotboater]

WillyT,
I appreciate the input. I had an Aristacrat with a 200 2.4. It ran 70 with 6" setback and lighter seats I installed. No back to back seats. I put a BP carb powerhead on it and it ran 78. True...my BP never ran well and I figure a good running BP would push it to near 90, but the boat weighed in at about 1400 rigged but without the motor according to a truck scale. (seats, gauges, steering, carpet, jackplate, etc... I had to use an engine hoist to flip it over in my back yard for painting. Accelleration was only fair. It was a 1978. They may have lightened them up in later years. I took a test ride in a 79 with a 235 Johnson, 6" setback, and stock back to back seats. It ran 68 with an OMC SST RX. (Remember those with the black teflon coating?) The 20' SST was always faster. At least the ones I saw. A friend had one with a warmed over 2.4 200 that ran 82. I loved the ride of the aristacrat, but mine was very heavy. When I repaired the bottom (had 2 holes when I got it) the glass was about 1-1/2" thick with big beefy stringers. I would like my next hull to be a bit lighter in weight than the Aristacrat. Also on the stoker, an issue of hotboat back from 96 (I think) lists weights and approx top speeds of different tunnels. The stoker was toward the high end on weight and the lower end on speed. I know they are great in rough water. I would consider one of these but every one that I see has an OMC on it. I have more experience with mercs and a friend who can get me merc parts at cost, so its Mercury for me. The Stoker and the Sleekcraft are both good hulls but with the elevation in Phoenix working against me, I need lighter weight.
Thanks for you input.
Marc AZH

[Edited by Arizona Hotboater on 06-15-2001 at 02:02 PM]

[Arizona Hotboater]

Great info RT, much appreciated.
Marc

[WillyT]

I think the SSTs were faster primarily because SleekCraft changed the bottom by the time they came out. Sleekcraft changed the bottom at least once, and maybe more than once, in the late 1970s and into the 1980s. The tunnel depth was less at the front and the tunnels were better defined and more "square" at the back (and the center pad was flatter for a true "pad effect"). My Sleek dealer at the time told me that the new bottom was worth 8-10 mph over the "first generation" design. Most Stokers have Johnrudes because Al Stoker is an Evinrude dealer, but many of his boats have certainly been powered by Mercs. I think if you compare a Stoker to an Eliminator, Cougar, Dave's Custom Boats, Warlock, Advantage, or any of the other "high-end California" boats, their weight is as light or lighter. However, ALL of these high-dollar boats are typically heavier than most of the less expensive east coast speedsters. The more I think about it, I think the STV Euro may be exactly what you need. Still a little small for me since I do so much skiing and wakeboarding with lots of kids and friends, but probably plenty big enough if you don't fool with all of that stuff. Wayne Tripp is another good one to talk to about this rig. Wayne, any comments for Arizona?

[Ron V]

Marc,

I rode in a new STV Euro with a 280 on Memorial Day. We didn't get in a lot of rough water but the waves we did hit seemed like they were hardly there. It also had a very solid feel (at least I thought so but I wasn't driving), accelerated great, and hit 92 on the Gaffrig with a 24" Lightning ET. I have some pictures of the one I rode in running wide open and can send them to you if you want.

Too bad Rapid Craft is not still in business. Kaptain Kirk rode in Uncle Tony's Riot and said it was great, in any kind of water. Plus they were very fast.
My V-bottom Hurricane would not be a half bad choice either. Talk about a roomy interior and tons of storage. Seats five comfortably and you can put a 56" inner tube under the front deck and several skis or wakeboards in the rear compartment. 80+ with a 150 ProMax when Sam Baker had it and he said it drove like a dream. It was rated for 175 hp but Sam told me a 225 ProMax would be the ideal motor for it and that the transom could hold a 280. Not the best ride but probably better than a Valero. And it is big enough that you feel like you are in a real ship compared to the Valero. But I don't know about 75 through 2 foot waves. I think Sam said that Cole still makes their version of the 20' Rapid Craft Typhoon.

Ron

[Arizona Hotboater]

WillyT, again, good info. This is stuff I can really use. Advantage was another boat I saw in that Hotboat issue. I think it was the heaviest of all. I would like to have the room of a bigger boat but boats here in Phoenix are 8-10mph slower than at sea level and accellerate more slowly. I need lightweight. I'm thinking a 24' Skater with twin 2.5's would be perfect, but its not in my budget. DAMN!
Have a great weekend.
Marc AZH

[Techno]

One other possibility no one has mentioned. Put one of those two speed gear boxes in the mid section. It has been done so it must be do-able. This would open up your choices as the acceleration would be there for a heavier boat.

[Arizona Hotboater]

Hey V-4 Freak, Ya send me the photos. Any of the interior with people in it? (to show roominess)

My Valero with a warmed over 2.4 will out accellerate virtually every boat I've come across. I have run against 21 eliminators and similar boats with 2.5efi's. They cant catch me. We run out of lake before their top speed numbers get high enough to catch me. I'll miss that if I get a much heavier boat. I did get stomped by a 19 eliminator with a 2.5, but they dont have the room that I want. The STV should be better in the "quick" department than my Valero and give plenty of top end. I really like my Valero. Too bad it doesnt like 2' waves.

Later,
Marc

[Edited by Arizona Hotboater on 06-15-2001 at 03:23 PM]

[Arizona Hotboater]

Techno, you always have great ideas, but that really wouldnt fit in my budget! :D

You say its been done before? By whom? I was just pondering that myself recently.

Marc

[Techno]

I don't know who did it or how. I believe it was air powered shift though. It would be nice.
Maybe someone will say how if they read this thread.

[Damage Inc]

I have two friends that have STV Euro's. They LOVE them! One is running a 225 and the other a 2.5. The 225 runs a solid 95 mph and the 2.5 is easily a 100 mph + boat. Neither one is exactly what I would call roomy, though! The seats aren't the most comfy things either!

I have a 21' Liberator, and of course, I think it is the perfect boat. The interior is plush and has tons of room! Mine was actually built with a larger storage space in back than the normal 21's, but still has alot of room.

I have a 2.5 Mod VP motor and am seeing 95 mph with a SRX 27P wheel. And no, it doesn't take me the length of the lake to get there either!

I don't know if this boat is for you or not, but I LOVE it.

Rick

ps. It makes a great slalom ski boat! (very small wake!)

[Ron V]

I'll send the pictures tonight if I get a chance. The interior of this particular Euroski was a 2 front buckets and I believe a rear seat that was all one but was arranged like two buckets with a center console. I don't think I have any shots of the interior, except the speedo at 92 mph. I'd say it had about as much room as a Valero like yours, except it is deeper inside. Hard to say though. Was less claustrophobic than a SS2000 when you sat in it but seemed more cramped than my boat. Regardless of the name, I'd say it is definitely not a ski boat. Definitely a real ride though. Accelerated great I thought, but I have not ridden in enough hot boats to compare. All of the boats with 260s and 280s feel the same to me.

Do you do any skiing or tubing at all, or just ride fast? The reason I ask is that I'd be hard pressed to try to use that STV Euroski for a ski boat, though I'm sure the wake would be awesome. Another thing is, when you are on a very crowded lake in weekend traffic conditions, nothing under 25 feet and lighter than about 4000 lbs. is really going to solve your overall problem. You are in the same situation as me. You live near a big city with limited bodies of water to handle the crowd, and there is just no defeating it.

[Damage Inc]

The interior you are describing is the same in the two boats I mentioned in my earlier post, and I think that is the standard interior in all Euro's. I can supply photos if needed, just let me know.

However, the Euro is a GREAT ski boat! Not too good for tubing though, not much of a wake!

The key to handling rougher water is LENGTH! Don't let them BS you, size DOES matter!! :D The longer the boat, the better it "stretches" across big rollers.

[Ron V]

Hey Damage,

There is no doubt in my mind that the Euroski would be totally awesome to be behind on a slalom ski. The reason I said I would hesitate to use it as a ski boat (at least day-in and day-out) is that to me it just doesn't have the creature comforts of a typical "ski" boat. I think it would be more difficult to get in and out of than a boat with swim platforms or lower sides, has less storage, I don't believe the passenger seat swivels around, and reaching back to get at the towrope bridle if you needed to might be a pain. Unless they have a removable pylon, which I don't know if they do or not. But I'm sure that all of that aside, it has a great wake for slalom skiing. I know that after skiing behind my Rapid Craft and behind a copy of a 15' Allison hull before that, I wouldn't own an inboard ski boat if someone gave one to me. A tunnel hull could only be better.

[Euroski]

Would also like to see the pictures..

[Arizona Hotboater]

Rick, More info please! You own one and a friend has an STV Euro, how do they compare? Which can handle rougher water, is the accelleration close or whats the deal. Ever been in an 18' 'Stream? The STV has more space and you could fit 5 beer coolers and 2 sets of skis in the tunnels of the euro. I'd rather have even more room but I want accelleration. Whats the real deal?
Thanks,
Marc AZH

[Edited by Arizona Hotboater on 06-15-2001 at 05:11 PM]

[AllisonMerc]

Marc,

I live in Phx. and I have a XR 2002 Allison with a 2.4 Bridgeport EFI I dont have too much trouble with the altitude...Seems to run almost as well here as opposed to Havasu.

As far as the rough water stuff i never go to Sahuaro,Pleasant,Bartlett, sometimes Canyon during the week,My all-time favorite lake is Apache!! I know it is hard to get there, but once there man what a pretty lake!!

Where do you boat most often?

Mark Saylor

[Michael Dixon]

Wally has redesigned the seats and they are much more comfortable. I agree with the rest of the crowd the STV euro will be hard to beat under nearly any conditions. Propped right they'll usually break 112 with a stock 280. I've been in some rough water several times with mine and it was flawless but most times it runs under better conditions. Good luck choosing.

[Arizona Hotboater]

Thanks for the info guys.....
And AllisonMerc, WOW, great to have another Phoenix boater here. Only a few of us on this board for the last few years. I usually go to bartlett or Pleasant. I live just north of Paradise Valley Mall. Apache is a real drive for me. My 2.4 has been giving me trouble for a while. Its fixed now but the altitude really effects it. Same with my truck and both my motorcycles. I'll send you an e-mail.

Welcome to Scream and Fly,
Marc AZH

[Barney]

I'm gonna hook up with Propster today/tomorrow, will be back in a few days. If your thinking Sleekcraft SST might work for ya, I got the Barney deal waiting for ya.

I'll hit ya with an email and some pics when I return.

[Arizona Hotboater]

Barn, I may be interested. e-mail me.
Marc

[AlaskaStreamin]

But I'm a little biased :). At Firewater 2000 I got to ride in several boats. I have a great video riding in a Euro and the Virages. I feel the Virages have more room if you consider the 3' X 6' sleeping area under the dash plus a hatch in the foreward bulkhead that gains acess all the way to the bow (another 5'). The side panels beside the seats have enough room to crawl into. I know as I had to, to get the battery in. This area is 2' wide, 10' long, and 3' high. Remember these side storage areas are on BOTH sides. There is also a teak hatch in the middle of the floor that you can store skies. These boats are foam cored (no rot)and the freeboard is among the highest. The high back buckets wrap around you like getting a hug from a fat lady. EEEWWW!!
If you want to see the video, I'll send it to you. Good luck on your quest for the perfect boat for YOU.

I've looked at a lot of boats, and I agree: The Virage is the roomiest boat you can buy with a tunnel bottom at less than 20'. Seating is only good for 4 big adults, but like Ron was describing the storage is unbelieveable!!

[Arizona Hotboater]

Hey guys,
the Virage is a good looking hull. I didnt know it had that much storage but moving around in the boat while anchored would be a bit cramped. The STV Euro has barely enough from what I saw. My other beef with the Virage is the weight. Its pretty heavy for an 18' boat. What I cant figure out is why this boat is so stable. The bottom design is very much like my Valero. I would think they would be comparable in rough water capabilities but everthing I have read says the Virage is much more stable. Also, the Virage is rare. Hard to find for a good price.

Later guys,
Marc

[Damage Inc]

Hey Marc

My 21' Liberator will handle the rougher water better than the STV only because it is longer! The STV accelerates hard and runs strong. So does mine! The STV is quicker (that is until I hook up the juice). I just tried a Mazco RE 26P today and it definately hit hard out of the hole. I saw around 90mph at 7200 - 7300rpm top end. Still not as good as the STX 27.

If it is acceleration you want, put the JUICE to it!! I guarantee it will give you all the acceleration you want!

Once again, if you are going to be in some serious chop you NEED a longer boat. I have ridden with my buddy in his STV on Lake Lewisville in Dallas and it is like being on a jet ski jumping wakes!!

If you click on the web link under my post it will take you to pics of my boat.

Feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions!

Rick

[Barney]

Purple Pimp **** fo sho! Let me wipe the drowl from my chin.

STV do not belong on the same lake. Easy boys, just talking about the type of water they excell in, very different.

Might be the ultimate two boat combo without an Allison.

Well wait a second, damn, it's not his fault but Damage got that title already.

That my friends is no BS, The ultimate two boat combo without an A-boat. Lil Shorty Purple Pimp would give an A-boat a run though, STV's too. Danage destroyed that one too, damn. Eventually it will come out, it's your damn fault.

:D

[Arizona Hotboater]

Dude....That is one NICE boat!
AZH

[TD]

You keep talking about elevation. Just what is the elevation where you boat. I have been on Canyon,Saguaro,
Pleasant and Havasau and didn't notice much difference at all. Just curious cause I boat here at home on a little lake @ 3700 ft and turn 7000 with my Hoss Triton 28 on my STV. Did same with my Allison( Same motor}.
Ron

[TD]

tell you about the motor. The block is a stock Mariner Mag II
150 with the exhaust relieved. Front half is 5 pedal horizontal with Boyesens. The ports have not been touched. Basically its a stock 150 or very close to it. It sits on a L&S one piece adaptor and the tuner looks like it's been chopped off. Heads are 31 cc. The liner is out and has holes drilled in the bottom of the mid section right over the lower unit flange.
Thats it.
Ron
PS: My STV is cramped but it slides pretty good.

[Arizona Hotboater]

Hey Ron,
Elevation isnt that great...1700'. I wouldnt think it would make much of a difference but have been told there is a 7-10 mph loss between here and havasu which is more like 400'. I brought my CBR600 out here from Maryland. I noticed a powerloss. My truck struggles more to pull my boat here than when I was towing it in Dallas area. My XR650 had a noticeable power loss in the mountains north of here. Only a 1500' increase and it woulndt wheelie. Once I got back to Phoenix it would wheelie for miles. I know it makes a difference but wont know how much until I test the boat at havasu.
AZH

[TD]

get with our mutual friend Kurt W and ask him about his bike. I know if I take my Polaris from house(4000ft) to the tower much higher, I lose some power. This atv is probably jetted for high altitude due to it beiong a native bike. I'm going to Hvavasau this week and I know I'll have to rejet cause I'm running fat here. Hope Rich has jets for me.
Good luck .
Ron

[stvhelm]

I cant believe you said the virage has not enough room. that boat has more room than most boats in its class. ive owned one for 4 years and with 2.5 efi it'll go over a 100mph. I've takin that boat through the ocean for about 20 miles from one inlet to another. so that should clear the rough water ability. It is one solid boat. This boat is very dry also. you can hit the roughest crap from any direction and not get wet. my stv eruo I have now you might as well jump in the water cause your gonna be soaked if you attempt any choppy water. also from the attitude of this boat i would not even go close to the inlet. one things for sure though. the stv with the same power will kick its ass. big weight difference. my 2 cents

[Arizona Hotboater]

Helmut? Are you Helmut Freitag? I know you by reputation although we have never communicated directly. I wasnt aware that you had traded in the Virage for a Euro. As for the room, I looked at many photos of the Virage and what I mean is that the distance between the back and front seats is shorter in the Virage. If it wasnt for the weight issue, and its rarity, I would consider a Virage. My boat is fine under typical boating conditions, but the conditions in Phoenix are not typical. In 2 foot waves or rollers, the boat is pitched and comes down on one sponson or the other depending on the angle I cross the wave. At high speeds, it is kicked back to the other sponson inducing a rocking motion that can be un-nerving. I cant figure why the Virage doesnt do the same because the sponson separation is just as narrow. My bottom design looks so close to that of the Virage....whats the difference between them? A YT is a great river boat, but not made for the near ocean like conditions I experience on the local lakes.
Thanks for the input.
Marc AZH

[stvhelm]

The hull is a ZT hull. and its not quite the same as the yt. from 89 to 91 the hull changed twice at the rear of the sponsons. The first ones built had the rear of the sponsons similar to your yt. later they made changes by putting a step in the hull that went about 1 ft forward from the rear of the sponsons. this helped by allowing the hull to air out faster and got rid of some of that side to side bouncing. later on they went and cut out more about 2ft from the rear of the sponsons and at the rear of the sponsons it looked more like a fat rudder than a hull. this almost made it handle like a pad v-bottom with tiny little training wheels at high speed, and a modvp a slower speeds. At high speed the only part of the sponson that contacts the water is shaped like a knife and cuts through it, eliminating that side to side bounce. I got to drive a yt v-king and it is a completely different animal. on the yt you feel alot more side to side rock than the latest zt design.

[Techno]

An aircraft carrier I think meets all your needs.
Decent accelleration
200+ in a few seconds off the catapults.(bring your own lawn chair)
good rough water handling
Goes through Hurricanes
stable at high speed, 90+ mph
Only high way speeds but stable(see lawn chair above for higher speeds)
roomy
ROOMY Can hold enough people for a small party. Carries 4 utility boats and 2 P boats plus 2 life boats and a few (100+)50 man life rafts. Plenty of room for several pools on the flight deck (already has a sprinkler system) and a small forest on the hanger bay(Conflageration system needs to be replumbed for fresh water) Comes with a fishing tower 14 decks above the water. And many more extras.
I dont want to spend a fortune
The navy has some old ones, probably let go for a song (Anchors awiegh...)
Fill it up at the beginning of the season, last for a few years.
Best of all if you ran it in any lake, there will be no more traffic, it's bow wave will sweep it clean.
Older ones have re-inforced bows for ramming. Can be used against jet skis.
The paint scheme sucks I don't know if you can afford a re-paint.

[Jrocket]

Your killing me,I was just reading your last reply,and I almost died laughing........You and Barney should get a little Vegas act going..Sorry about wandering off the subject,but I had to say something......John

[Damage Inc]

Thanks for the compliments! :)

And Barney, until you produce some evidence, it's not MY fault! :D That's my story -- and I'm stickin' to it! :p

Although I did burn #5 Saturday! :mad: Tore the motor down Sunday morning, the Damage isn't too bad, but will still have to replace the piston. Have to get it back together so I can issue T-Rex his ass whuppin' this weekend!

Rick

[AnthonySS]

Dear AZH,

I have been involved in numerous boating outings with various hulls. The Tunnels are always out front. The Tunnels I have run with are STV’s, Stokers, Cougars, HST, Talons, Rapid Crafts and Mirage.

All of this Boats are real good to well in the rough water. If your on a budget and want to run a 100 mph, The STV will get you there with the least amount of HP. If you want room, The STV Euro has it. If you want Safety and Stability, The STV has it. If you want to sit in the boat and not on it, the STV has it.

Sorry, I don’t mean to sound bias, but I was in the same boat years ago trying to find a ride that would go fast and get me home when the lake kicks up from weather or traffic.

Do not let any of the porpoise stuff get in the way. I just note this stuff to make other owners aware of it and it can be overcome. It took me about 10 minutes to get over it cause I had some helpful advice on how to handle it.

You now have a leg up too if you are faced with it.

Mike at Mirage has a nice Euro for Sale in FLA.

Hope this helps

Sincerely,

AnthonySS


[Edited by AnthonySS on 06-18-2001 at 12:53 PM]

[Arizona Hotboater]

Hey Anthony,
Thanks for the heads up. You have always been helpful and I value your opinion. I may contact mike at mirage. I saw the add but have found whenever a price isnt listed, there is a reason for it. Usually means full retail price or more. I may just wait and look for an obscure brand in need of work. I simply cant justify a large expenditure for boating as infrequently as I do. When I lived on the Potomac river in Maryland, I went boating 3 times a week. I now go 2-3 times a month. I'll keep you posted on what I decide.
Have a great week,
Marc

[AnthonySS]

I'm Always happy to help!

I agree there is a premium for the Euro, That's why I own the ProCompSki...Look into it too. You may be suprised at the price you can get one for over a Euro,

Sincerely,

AnthonySS

For room inside, for rough water ride, you really cant compare any STV to a Virage though............Virage wins hands down.

[blackdog426]

Thought you should know, Jack at Full Throttle in Jacksonville Florida just finished his brand new 4 seat Quartershot. This boat is very good looking, he has pictures he can send out, give him a call 904-448-4029, if your considering a Euro, you should definately check this boat out. Also, one of his customers is selling his Euro, it is a very nice boat with a Diamond motor.

[Arizona Hotboater]

Thans for the info but isnt the 1/4 shot very small inside? I need as much room as I can get. Any Idea what they want for the Euro?
Thanks,
AZH

[Arizona Hotboater]

JW, the Virage is too rare. Everytime I do find one its in wisconsin or minnesota. Too far to drive. I have seen other tunnels in the south and even in AZ. There is 1 Virage in the boat trader. No price listed, no info about it, and its in minnesota. If one comes along at a good price I will consider it.

Anthony, I agree on the pricing of STV's. But anything other than a Euro wont have the room I need. I have seen 89-90 Euros for $10-11K with a BP EFI. I'll look for a while and see what comes up. If a "no name tunnel pops up for cheap, I may go that route. I saw one a while back that looked like an eliminator. I cant remember the name. Needed paint and no motor. It was like $1500 or so. Slap a 2.5 on and I'll be set.

Later guys,
Marc

[Racemore]

I worked for Jack at Full Thorttle when the new deck plug
was being built and my friend gets the first boat which
is complete now except installing the interior.The rear seat
is wide enough for three average adults.The guy with the Euro would rather have the new Q Shot4 but is stepping up to a 24 skater or HTM.

[David]

What about a Vegas or Voyager XT? Those have a lot more room than an STV Euro. I'm sure that they aren't as fast as an STV, but life is full of trade offs. I bet a Promax 300X on a Voyager XT would be fast enough for most people:) Someone else on the board will have to tell you how stable the XT is, I've never been in one. At 20', wouldn't the ride be relatively good?

You could buy a Vegas or Voyager for less coin than an STV Euro.

As for me, I still like my Virage. I wish it was faster, but I'm not prepared to give up the room. I am waiting for the direct injection technology to mature before re-powering.

[blackdog426]

Arizona Hotboater the Quartershot 4 seater is all new I know if I was shopping for a new 4 seat boat I would certainly take a look, it looks alot better to me than the Euro , and I have seen them side by side, but to each his own.

[Racemore]

My freind that is getting the new QShot4 has a vegas and he
can't hang with my 19'tunnel or a 21 eliminator/200merc but
it is for sale for $3000.with hyd.steering.

[Racemore]

Ready for that photo shootout?

[Arizona Hotboater]

Thanks for the info everyone. First the Vegas XT...I have ridden in about every hull Hydrostream has made except for the Virage, HST, and AE21. The Vegas and Vegas XT do ride pretty well but a tunnel is a different animal. The Vegas doesnt have the ride or performance I am looking for. Not to say its not a good hull. Its just not what I want.

As for the 1/4 shot4, any one have a website I can go to for photos of this beast?
Thanks,
AZH

[Jimboat]

STV Euro is a good boat all around - a good compromise of high performance and stability through the transition velocities. Check out the web site http://www.aeromarineresearch.com for tunnel design information, and how to evaluate design impacts on performance and stability.
/Jim

[blackdog426]

Arizona if you E-mail Jack I'm sure he would be happy to get you some pictures. [email protected] his web site is being revamped but you might try it any way.