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View Full Version : The other obsession: old Corvettes



Raceman
07-23-2002, 07:28 PM
This is why I can't get anything done with the boats this year. This 67 427/435 Corvette has every piece of the original drivetrain, except somebody changed the rear end chunk and the original starter is gone. Otherwise, all there, right down to carbs and alternator.

Raceman
07-23-2002, 07:32 PM
Looking over the other Corvette in the corner lurks the X115 and a Twister 2 sharing a double stand.

Techno
07-23-2002, 08:11 PM
I don't know how to break this to you gently- but most of the car is missing! It ain't all there, you got ripped!

And to think all I have to do to mine is replace the broken rear spindle. Last year I said this year but...
My numbers don't match though. I have a boat block in mine! That and 10 speakers kind of change the interior.

Raceman
07-23-2002, 08:24 PM
That's the body sittin back to the left. It's a Goodwood Green coupe/green interior/white hood stripe. I'm thinking of making a seat mount that bolts to the body mounts on the chassis, mounting pedals and steering column the same way and driving it to a cruize next month just as a bare chassis. What d'ya think?

Rickracer
07-23-2002, 09:30 PM
I'd do it, but then again, some folks say I ain't all there/here.:D :D

Techno
07-23-2002, 09:30 PM
I don't think you can, it's a coupe not a roadster.

Is this going to be a driver or a garaged waxer?

Raceman
07-23-2002, 09:57 PM
I guess it's gonna be another trailer queen. I'm not much into waxing and cleaning anymore, once they're done. I drive em a little in good weather, but the thought of a thundershower...........

patchesII
07-24-2002, 09:13 PM
the thought of a 17 year old kid blasting the radio and talking to his friends right before he slams into my cherry tri-power 427 vette. i agree totally with trailer queens. let's face it, you can't exactly run down to your local dealer and pick one of these up. i get pissed when i see vintage racing on tv. the thought of losing one of these cars and totaling it into a guardrail should make any car enthusiast sick to their stomach.

Raceman
07-24-2002, 09:35 PM
Show us some pics Patches.

Talon2.5
07-25-2002, 02:03 PM
raceman sweet frame!!!!!

man, a points winner for sure!! sweet!!!

got any pics of the body??

Raceman
07-25-2002, 09:07 PM
Thanks Skip. I'll post a few more pics on Saturday. If everything goes as planned we're gonna drop the body back on.

Techno
07-26-2002, 04:07 PM
How are you driving to allow yourself to be driven into?


I'm not into the museum pieces, I feel they were meant to be driven. If you don't drive it then whats the point?

Get super kiss or hire a kid to clean it for you. Depending on who- you may be able to charge for the honor!

JW
07-26-2002, 07:51 PM
For what that ONE car is worth complete, you could sell it and start a new career! Buy Hydrostream and get to work!

Raceman
07-28-2002, 07:52 PM
It took most of the weekend

Raceman
07-28-2002, 07:54 PM
With a lotta help

Raceman
07-28-2002, 07:56 PM
But after being apart since 1994, now it rolls again

Techno
07-28-2002, 08:16 PM
I noticed a problem with that car. Its not mine!

You have alot more patience than me- want to fix my broken spindle?

Your working on cars and neglecting boats. I'm working on boats and neglecting cars. Hmmm.

Raceman
07-28-2002, 08:51 PM
What year is your car? I've got the GM tools to do spindles 63-82. Only thing I don't do to my cars is the rear ends as far as ring & pinion set up. Maybe I'll climb that mountain next.

Talon2.5
07-28-2002, 09:44 PM
man!! ya even have another in the background there and i can only DREAM of getting ONE, very nice!!! very nice!!

Raceman
07-29-2002, 06:14 AM
Skip, the other one in the background is a 67 435 roadster with every piece of the original drivetrain, right down to the dated ignition coil, distributor, voltage reg. and carbs, and of course engine, etc.. It's unusual to see one after 35 years and not have to chase a bunch of components to get the "numbers" right.

The problem is, it needs a complete resto too and if I get started on it now I might not wet a boat for another year. So for now, it rests in the corner, collecting dust and providing quality shelter for a few spiders. Maybe next year.

BarryStrawn
07-29-2002, 09:32 AM
Raceman,

Depending on how rough that '67 is, some folks appreciate an surviving original car more than a restoration. One thing is for sure, there are fewer each time one is restored. You can always restore it in the future but you can never make it original again. Sometime it seems the old car hobby has turned into a contest to see who can buy the most reproduction or NOS parts to go with their title and build sheet.

Barry

Techno
07-29-2002, 03:01 PM
Raceman, I've got a 68. Broke the spindle in a parking lot, I have good luck that way. I figure to pull the whole unit and take it to a garage to do the push pull thing. Eventually. Already have the spindle and bearings.
Part of the problem is just where to stop. Should I do the other side? Do the bushings in the back, fronts been done. Change the U-joints on the half shafts. That kind of long road stuff.

I did this to my boat, now I'm rebuilding it. Got the mid in my trunk for dis-assembly and polishing during lunch.

Raceman
07-29-2002, 05:17 PM
Techno, there're a couple of ways you can disassemble the spindle assembly. If you pull the trailing arm it can be tough to get the front bolt out if the car's salty. You've gotta pay attention to the shims there too unless you're going to re align. You can pull the bearing carrier leaving the trailing arm in the car, but it can be hard to separate there too. I just took one apart off an old parts rear I got and it was kinda rusty and I had a tough time with it. I can't imagine what the salty ones are like.

One of the most critical areas in the old rears is in the yokes in the chunk. It's a vishus cycle. As the spring sags with age the rear camber goes negative. The more it goes in that direction, the more pressure it puts on the yokes and causes them to wear where they meet the pin through the center of the carrier. The more they wear, the more the camber goes negative and the more the pressure increases. I've seen em wear past the groove for the internal snap ring allowing it to pop off. When that happens the yoke can be pulled out of the housing without disassembly. By that time the u bolt nuts on a non HD unit are usually eating the yoke seal. Ideally the yokes should have almost no feelable side movement when you pull on the tire at top and bottom as if you were trying to change the camber. We just feel em by hand with the car jacked up. If you've got much over about a sixteenth movement I'd do the whole rear while you're at it, spindle bearings, bushings and all. The nice thing about the new poly bushings everybody's selling now is they can all be done with hand tools. The old type required a press on the strut rods and a special tool for the front of the trailing arm.

Raceman
07-29-2002, 05:27 PM
Barry, unfortuately I don't have a survivor caliber car. The 67 Roadster in the background would've been real close if the original paint had been salvageable. I almost hate to paint it because the body's so virgin it's a shame to cover it. The interior will have the original seats, which are very nice, as are the dashpads, but the carpet was ruined and the door panels had too much cracking to live with.

Several of my cars are unrestored with the exception of paint, but that's the big exception. I just can't seem to find a decent original paint car that I'm interested in that's for sale.

BarryStrawn
07-29-2002, 08:53 PM
Sounds like a plan. Your description of the complete original drivetrain in a 435/427 made we wonder if you had found a real garage queen that was presentable. Couldn't imagine one being together after all these years if had been driven much. But your other post explained that.

That Vega was really sweet! Fix that puppy up for trips to visit the rich relatives:)

Raceman
07-29-2002, 09:14 PM
Barry, I've been pretty lucky with the original engines over the years, it's original paint that's been elusive. The restampers are so good now, I'd hate to have to say for sure that one's original or not without pulling a head, but I found most of my old stuff before they got as sophisticated. The Vega's long gone. The picture here is actually taken at the place I sold it to. It sat out by this old shed for years, but I haven't seen it lately so it may've been scrapped by now.

Raceman
12-27-2004, 09:37 PM
Well, the green car's had a bad day, or week, or year, or whatever. What a complex combination of bad luck/stupidity/combination of errors and other factors, maybe including a ghost or curse.

First, when I got this car, I already had the original engine, which was rebuilt and on a stand for about 10 years. During that time, it was stored in a building that I first ran a business from, then closed and rented the front out to a tenant, keeping the rear for storage. A couple of years ago we decided to pull the chassis and detail it, and re unite the original drivetrain with the car after all these years. Although the engine had been assembled for all these years, with it's inside climate controlled storage, I decided not to open it, but rather just stick it in the car. I've done similar things in the past with engines or cars in long term storage with good results.

With all the stuff in and hooked up, I stuck the primer in the distributor hole and spun up the oil pump with the drill. The drill loaded, but the guage showed 0 oil pressure. Having seen this before with oil pressure guages in old Corvettes that sit a lot, I unhooked the copper line from the side of the block and hooked up an AutoMeter Guage temporarily. It showed 60 lbs on the drill. Initial start up and high idle run in to break the camshaft and lifters in showed good oil pressure. Dreading tearing out the dash to screw with the damn guage, which involves dropping the steering column, and fighting the wiring harness which attaches firmly to the rear of the instrument cluster with no slack, I just took the temporary guage back out from under the hood and hooked the defective guage in the dash up so there wouldn't be an oil leak, with the intention of fixin' it soon. (CRITICAL MISTAKE #2). Actually, I didn't know that CRITICAL MISTAKE 1 had been made YEARS earlier.

I've always done all the engines and manual transmissions in my old cars myself. I've let employees help and do non-critical work in re-installation, but as far as internals it's always been all me, and I've always been picky to the point of genuinely tickin' off some of the machine shop guys, by checkin' to see if the clearances in bottom ends, and piston to cyl walls are what I've asked for, and when they've proven not to be, makin' em re-do and in some cases even buy replacement parts when they've screwed stuff up. Anyhow, 10 years later, and not bein' able to sleep for several days from stewin' over it, I still don't have an explanation for CRITICAL MISTAKE 1, but without #2, it couldn't have happened.

Several months back we were gonna drive the green 67 to a Cruise, about 10 miles from home. It's only had MAYBE 75 or 100 miles since being put back together. About a mile from the house the engine seemed to tighten, then the dreaded squeel, all within about a half second of each other. Although I've had friends turn bearings in big block Chevies, it's never happened to me, and certainly not in one of MY engines.

Back in the garage it went until Christmas day, when we decided to pull the motor out. This would involve takin' the car to my son's house since he's off for a week and willing to help, and my garage at home is a jumbled mess. I decided that rather than pay a roll back on a holliday, I'd stick it on a tow dolly that I have and just drag it the 6 miles to his house. Winchin' it on the tow dolly, the damn strap broke, releasing the car, and letting it roll into our custom van that we ride our dogs around in, which was parked downhill from the Corvette loading attempt by about 2 carlengths. Our recently adopted Rottweiler, just back from a trip to the store was still sittin' in the van, not wanting to get out yet. I think the impact gave her whiplash, or scared the crap outta her, but 2 days later she still won't go anywhere near the van. The Corvette's bumper went bumper to bumper with the van and the rear corner got the grille, a turnsignal lamp, and trim piece on the van. Thankfully, the Corvette was virtually uninjured except for a paint chip about the size of a nickel on the rear corner, but no glass trauma whatsoever. About 30 seconds after the impact, it dawned on me, I can't feel the fingers in my right hand and my wrist is hurtin' like hell. The hook on the winch strap had hit me when the attaching strap broke. I was afraid to look. The pain was intense. I felt for blood and guts with the other hand and didn't feel anything. My daugter in law walked up and looked and started gaggin'. I had a knot about like a golf ball on the right side of the wrist, and my little finger was stickin' almost straight out to the side, and I couldn't feel it at all. (two days later, it's okay, sore as hell, and still swollen................. back to the car fiasco)

After several hours of very carefully pullin' the engine from a car that's basically show detailed it's hangin' on the cherry picker. Step one: pull the drain plug. One little spurt, then NOTHING. OMG, panic................... am I stoopid' enough to have run this engine with no oil? No, I thought, I primed it with the drill, then ran it for over half an hour at about 2K to seat the lifters and it had oil pressure. AND, it was driven maybe 100 miles BEFORE it failed. I pull the dipstick and it shows full, and the oil looks new just as expected. I stick a screwdriver in the drain hole and it spurts again, then stops. A couple more sticks and the same thing. My son, who's lookin' at the hole says "something's trying to come out". We pull it and out comes a little glob of something that looks like wool. Next I pull the oil filter canister off (the 67's have the old can type that has a filter element inside). The outside of the element is covered in this mystery fiber, and it's completely plugged. Next we pulled the pan, and it had probably close to a quart of the same junk, and it's up through the oil pump screen, and we can pull it out with pliers. I'm figurin' somebody must've stuffed this crap in through the distributor hole while it was in storage all these years. The path was clearly FROM the oil pan though the pump and on to the filter. I'm thinkin', who coulda'/woulda' done somethin' like that? Today, after another restless night I pulled the intake, and the reality set in....................................... SHOP RAG, and from the volume, probably more than one. Reminants of it are wrapped around the camshaft, shredded to oblivion by the time the remnants got to the bottom and went through the oil pump gears. Who knows if the oil filter bypass let some of it recirculate for more shredding until it turned to the wool like substance. The path is clear now. Apparently a corner dropped in the slots above the camshaft, wrapped around it and was shredded and spit out toward the pan. I'm still at a total loss. I've heard of surgeons leaving tools and cotton swabs inside a patient, but I can't think of any way that I had shop rags laying in the lifter valley under an the intake, and certainly not how I could've left em there.

The bad news: busted van, busted paint on rear of Corvette, damn sore wrist, scored crank, one gauled piston at wristpin, a lotta work mixed with anxiety of wonderin' if I'm dumb enough to leave shop rags inside a motor, (can't imagine them being there in the first place) OR if somebody with access did something nasty intentionally.

Good news: One bearing damaged, but didn't spin in block, no major damage to ORIGINAL ENGINE, no glass damage to Corvette, no broken bones.

WharfRat
12-27-2004, 10:36 PM
:eek: Geez Norris, sorry to hear about that, glad you're ok and the vehicles too, man what a nightmare

10.5' Tunnel
12-27-2004, 10:58 PM
Man that sucks, but as you say it could have been worse, a lot worse. I saw a screwdriver left under an intake once, not a pretty site :eek:

Trikki1010
12-28-2004, 07:54 AM
Damn Norris,

That's a Christmas Horror Story :eek:

Good to see ya didn't "kill" or "break" anything ;)

Maybe the "GODS" that be, are trying to tell ya to leave them vettes alone and get ready to get "wet" :D :D

rob vaughn
12-28-2004, 08:51 AM
Hate to hear that Raceman, we're playing with a 74, but not going back original... That's not a very popular year, that's the first year they detuned'em...

Going with a GM 350/330hp. from GM Performance...

rob vaughn
12-28-2004, 08:55 AM
Got the old motor out, and waiting for some warmer weather to paint the engine compartment!!!

Fish
12-28-2004, 09:24 AM
raceman, ADOPT ME PLEASE!!!!!!!! LOL

Raceman
12-28-2004, 09:40 AM
Quote: Maybe the "GODS" that be, are trying to tell ya to leave them vettes alone and get ready to get "wet"


Trikki, I got a pretty clear message from "the GODS" about my boat racin' future in the early 80's when I "got wet" and landed in the hospital. I really ain't sure how many more messages I can stand. As far as the old cars, I'm beginnin' to think some of em have ghosts attached to em that wanna be left alone. With boat racin' gone, chasin' young gals bein' out of the question (the ones I like use the damn SIR word on me), and now old cars bein' troublesome too, I ain't sure exactly what's left.

Rob, I always considered 1969 the end of the road for older Corvette muscle. Since the 390 Horse 454 was the big motor for 70. A lot of people liked the 70 model LT1 350, rated at 370 horsepower in the Vette, but in comparison with the previous several years high horse big blocks I thought they were kinda boring. The pore' 71's had a 365 horse 454 which was little more than a gas hog, and of course the 75 or so LS6's, that with their lower compression ratio were pretty much dogs themselves in spite of the 425 horse rating GM gave em. They were pale in comparison to the previous year's LS6's installed in Chevelles and El Camino's ONLY. I guess you're right that the 74 wasn't much of a performance year, being the last year of the 454 option that was by then down in the upper 200's horsepower wise if I remember right. The good news was that they essentially shared everything good from the 68 and newer cars (technically 65 and newer I guess), so an engine upgrade puts em right back in the hunt from a fun standpoint. I always liked that one year only seam down the midde of the back bumper for some reason also.

triple dude
12-28-2004, 12:08 PM
Great photo sequence and nice car. That color along with Marlboro Maroon were my favorites. Sounds like you better just stick to staying in the Archie Bunker chair for a couple of weeks. You may be on a downward trend. :eek: Your story reminded me of when I was putting my GTO back together. The interior was gutted and I climbed in to start laying the carpet. I left the driver's door partly open. I'm sitting down and trimming the rug on the passenger side and suddenly that drivers door decides it wants to open all the way. I couldn't get at it quick enough and it built um enough momentum to slam into the end of a bike muffler parked nearby. A big chunk of paint knocked off a week old paint job along with a dent. I just turned out the lights and went in the house for the rest of the day.

stokernick
12-28-2004, 12:35 PM
mystery item?????could it have been from mice?????they pick the damndest places to nest!!!! Other than that did you have a good Christmas!

dotz
12-28-2004, 12:38 PM
Raceman Awsome car. That thing is gourgous. One day I hope to be able to afford something like that. Best of luck with it and your other projects keep me posted.

Raceman
09-02-2006, 10:34 PM
Back to the top................. tryin' to get the Other Motorsports forum going again.

sms
09-05-2006, 07:50 AM
Raceman,
I'm thinking about going with a different look on my 59, and mounting some painted steel wheels with blackwalls and dog dish hubcaps. Do you know if those caps are the same as the other Chevy caps, or specific to Vettes? (big brake cars maybe?)

The car is white, red int. Would you go with white, black or red wheels? Looking for that vintage road race look to wear on driving events, and keep the wide white bias ply for putting around.

Raceman
09-05-2006, 03:50 PM
I've always liked the wheels painted body color when dog dish hubcaps are used. As far as I know they're the same as other 59 Chevies (not positive, but think they are). They show on E Bay fairly frequently. I keep a favorite search up for "dog dish" and "poverty caps" all the time and it's amazing how much NOS stuff from the 50's/60's/70's shows.

ShorePounder
09-07-2006, 10:22 PM
So you're another one of those guys who dig the dishes?

More power to ya I reckon.

I never liked 'em especially old Mopars. I figured they got the dog dish moniker because that's all they were good for. Although I did know a junkyard dog that wouldn't eat out of one. Smart dog that one.

I'll make one concession only because I can't imagine anything else that would maintain the look. COPO Camaros.

HiLift
09-08-2006, 10:20 AM
Raceman, will a mid-year body, say '63-'67, fit onto a mid '70's frame without too much trouble? I know the rear kick-ups in the frame are just a little bit different.
I was thinkin' that that might be an easy (CHEAP) way of getting myself into a much nicer body style.

Raceman
09-08-2006, 03:41 PM
It's do-able, and most of the stuff is in the right place, but I can't remember the specifics. All the suspension and motormounts would be positioned correctly, but it seems like some of the body mounts might be wrong, and I think the re-enforcements on the sides of the rear kickups on some years are in the way too if I remember. Also, since the '73 got the soft front bumpers and starting with '74 they got em on both ends, all the bumper mount stuff would be wrong.

HiLift
09-08-2006, 07:38 PM
Yeah, I think youre right on all counts.
Not that big of a job really as Ive got a donor frame in good condition and a motivated attitude (dollars willing!) All I need now is a body!! (and interior, and trim and.......................