Help 21' Paramount running slow

[ucf_motorcycle]

I recently bought a 1991 21' Paramount with a carbed 2.4L 200HP. It had some engine issues when I bought it (mostly electrical). Took me a while to get it running and now it starts right up idles OK (will sometimes conk out if left at low idle for a long time in gear (didn't think this was unusual though)) and planes out but I'm only getting 47MPH out of the boat at 5200RPM. I can trim up way up to 5600RPM but I'm only going 49MPH and thats trimmed too High.

I'm running a Michigan Wheel 14.75 X 21P prop.

Some things that I know are slowing me down are: T-top and rough bottom paint. The bottom is actually rough to the touch almost like sandpaper so I know its slowing the boat some.

Also there is a crankcase pressure gauge (I think) on the console and it seems like its reading low, don't know what its supposed to read buts its virtually 0 at idle and only goes up a little bit when on speed. The engine itself seems to run good so not sure if its suspect.

I expected mid 50's could I expect that once the bottom is sandblasted or is there something else wrong here?

[Eagle One]

OK , obiviously you're a little new to this. 47-49 MPH is about all you can expect from that rig, especially with the bottom paint. It's like dragging a parachute most of the time.. and the T-top is nothing but a big parachute..It's heavy, doesn't have a particularly good bottom design for speed and the 2.4 is just not that much power on that boat. The gauge you mention is likely a water pressure gauge as I've never seen a crankcase pressure gauge in 40 years. The water pressure gauge should read around 4-6 psi at high idle and above 16-20 at least at wide open throttle. Either the gauge is bad or it has something stopping up the tube which should go from the gauge to the engine block. If it's correct you need a water pump or you'll be rebuilding an engine soon. That boat in it's best trim would likely only run around 54-55. Your RPM is low too, you need to turn around 5800-6000 at wide open throttle. You might try a 15 X 19. It'll carry the load better at midrange, get on plane quicker and might even give you 1-2 MPH.

[Action Dave]

Eagle One pretty much summed it up. Even if you remove the bottom paint and t-top the most you'll get out of that boat is around 50-55mph. That boat's bottom was designed for a smooth ride in rougher water. Unfortunately it won't carry the bow enough to get an speed out of it. There have been some threads discusssing Paramounts here in the past. If you search them you might find some tips for your rig. Hope this helps.

[Powerplay25]

Soda blast the bottom paint off. A friend of mine had it done to his boat, it had years and layers of old bottom paint on it. It made a huge difference. The results were amazing, the bottom cleaned up like it had never been painted.

[VectorPat]

I have a 92 Paramount. When I had a 2.5 200 Merc on it 52mph was all it would do. I now have a 250 Yamaha and now 60mph is about it. Like the others are saying the bottom paint and t-top will slow you down but dont expect a whole lot more speed. Its a well built boat just not the fastest.

[Mercmaniac]

Dont think a paramount is only capable of 45-50 mph There are a couple running around in the 70's I have a friend that is doing so. Just keep working on it.

[mad dan]

remove the hook in the bottom,staighten up the pad,move the gas tank back sa far as it will go in its well,and move the seats and counsel back.makes it worthless as a fishing boat but will gain speeds 65 plus.

[Reaction19]

Mercmaniac whats up buddy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i know where theirs a fast paramount...... and a slow reaction too.....................................................

[Action Dave]

remove the hook in the bottom,staighten up the pad,move the gas tank back sa far as it will go in its well,and move the seats and counsel back.makes it worthless as a fishing boat but will gain speeds 65 plus.

In other words, make it an Action 21. That was the original base for the Paramount 21.

[Mercmaniac]

you should know it real good it's sitting in your yard:iagree:

[Reaction19]

actually its on a lift in the keys waiting for you to come getcha some oink oink!!!!!!

[Reaction19]

when we gonna run again in the keys i saw jimmy and the fasssssssstest powerplay the other day and jimmy was having some motor problems.

[Mercmaniac]

I am going to try and be there on the keys run coupe is talking about.

[Powerplay25]

i saw jimmy and the fasssssssstest powerplay the other day

What kind of Powerplay? 33' ? Power?

[Coupe9050lx]

What kind of Powerplay? 33' ? Power?

Bill has a 25 openfish with twin opti's...:thumbsup: Let me tell you its one nice boat and when you see it running the only thing that comes to mind is :eek:.

[AirRide]

When Enrique had his 25 CC w/twin 300's, it was doing a tick over 90 mph. His best friend, from high school, who also works for him, had an exact same boat. Both boats were plain white, no rails, no archs, etc...plain white wrapper boats. Ran real well. Believe it or not, they skied & wake boarded them most of the time.

[Reaction19]

nice boats but too bad they dont make them anymore.

[Coupe9050lx]

nice boats but too bad they dont make them anymore.

Yea its a shame... same thing with the Reaction's...:thumbsup:

[Reaction19]

naw everyone seems to have a reaction nowaday's just not many fast one's around.

[Mercmaniac]

Dolphin boats bought the Powerplay molds. not sure when they are going to start poping them out though. Somebody looking for one Bill is going to sell his soon.

[AirRide]

Dolphin boats bought the Powerplay molds. not sure when they are going to start poping them out though. Somebody looking for one Bill is going to sell his soon.Dolphin has no intentions of ever producing the 25. Ever.

[Mercmaniac]

I don't know about that I hear a different story guess only time will tell..

[Steve 1]

Dolphin has no intentions of ever producing the 25. Ever.

Not TRUE dude! Karl will build whatever you want 25 Sport deck go fast or Open Fisherman.

[AirRide]

Not TRUE dude! Karl will build whatever you want 25 Sport deck go fast or Open Fisherman.Cool! good to know. You work there, right?

[Steve 1]

Cool! good to know. You work there, right?

I subcontract from them. Real nice People we need more like him in the business!

[AirRide]

I subcontract from them. Real nice People we need more like him in the business!yeah, they are good guys there, thats for sure. Talked to them about a flats boat, really know how to build them nice. They showed me around the shop. Quality fiberglass work and the finish was super sweet. You do glass work for builders, who ya working with these days?

[Steve 1]

yeah, they are good guys there, thats for sure. Talked to them about a flats boat, really know how to build them nice. They showed me around the shop. Quality fiberglass work and the finish was super sweet. You do glass work for builders, who ya working with these days?

I take care of and Build Molds there they are very picky about detail and finish. BTY Years back I did the PP 25 Sport deck tooling along with all the large Molds for Danny, last set was for his 38.I work here and in the M.E.

[BUIZILLA]

Not TRUE dude! Karl will build whatever you want 25 Sport deck go fast or Open Fisherman. no sh1t, I didn't know that

good to know... ;)

[AirRide]

no sh1t, I didn't know that

good to know... ;)thats what i said too.:thumbsup: i'm going by the princeton shop again, to Dolphin. I want to check out the new 20' Bay boat again. I really like the 20. Not too big to trailer and it fits on the side of my house. Good to know someone in the biz. Steve 1 what day is good for you, to stop in and say hi? thanx

[Steve 1]

We work a 4 day week there 7:00 AM- 5:30 PM Mon-Thur anytime is cool!

[Powerplay25]

Karl will build whatever you want 25 Sport deck go fast or Open Fisherman

Steve,

I thought the mold for the top deck of the 25' Powerplay Sportdeck was gone.

[Steve 1]

Steve,

I thought the mold for the top deck of the 25' Powerplay Sportdeck was gone.


No it is alive and well!

[Johnny_B_Good]

..........That boat in it's best trim would likely only run around 54-55. Your RPM is low too, you need to turn around 5800-6000 at wide open throttle. You might try a 15 X 19. It'll carry the load better at midrange, get on plane quicker and might even give you 1-2 MPH.
Ok, i also have a paramount. First boat and love it so far. Have had it about 2 months.

Its a 1998 with a 98 evinrude 225. I havent tried any top speed runs, but its gets a steady 54.7 with 4-5 people spread out on the boat, 3/4 tank of gas, lots of food and drinks, wakeboards, fishing rods, all that good stuff. Its got a 23 pitch quicksilver prop on it now. I'm running that speed at around 5300-5400 rpms maxed.

I'm still going to tamper with it and maybe go for some top speed runs while in the keys this weekend. But i'd say 60/62 is all its got in the best conditions.

Question: Why would a smaller pitch prop add mph, i thought it added low end speed not top end? And is all the weight with everyone onboard stopping me from getting up to 5800+ rpms or do i just need more experience?
.


Eagle One pretty much summed it up. Even if you remove the bottom paint and t-top the most you'll get out of that boat is around 50-55mph. That boat's bottom was designed for a smooth ride in rougher water. Unfortunately it won't carry the bow enough to get an speed out of it. There have been some threads discusssing Paramounts here in the past. If you search them you might find some tips for your rig. Hope this helps.

Mine doesnt have bottom paint or t-top, but ya its maxed @ 55mph loaded like i stated above(4+ people, full gas, etc) @ 5400 rpms. It sure does ride smooth thoough. I havent done any runs by myself with a 1/4 tank to see the top speed, but i dont think the 10 year old 225 has enough power to lift the bow and get her riding on the pad like it should, especially with a crowd onboard.

I was out on the water here in miami in the storm we had last friday with 1 other person and almost a full tank. I guess with the wind and chop it helped pick the bow up and she was riding on the pad real nice with a slight bit of chine walk. FUN FUN! It felt much faster then the 54.7 its usually done while loaded. To bad my gps didnt have any signal through the clouds else i woulda known the speed. Rpms got up to ~5800rpms.

With some more time on this boat, im sure i'll get that speed up. I'll find out this weekend. Someday it'll be back in the 80's like it used to be before i bought it. :thumbsup:

-John

[Action Dave]

John if your boat is running 55 all loaded up, you should see a significant increase in speed with a light load. Probably 5mph or so. It's also affecting how many rpms you can turn with your prop. That 98 225 is a good motor and you should prop it to turn 6100-6200 with a light load. Judging by your previous numbers, you should be right about there with the 23 quicksilver. In some serious chop, you can probably get the boat up on the pad but it won't happen in calmer water even with more horsepower. The hook kinda makes it near impossible to fly a Paramount. Still a great boat and not slow for a fishing boat at all. Good luck to you. If you ever see me in the keys say hi. I've got the yellow Action with black flames on the deck.

[Coupe9050lx]

With some more time on this boat, im sure i'll get that speed up. I'll find out this weekend. Someday it'll be back in the 80's like it used to be before i bought it. :thumbsup:

-John[/quote]

Back in the 80's :cool:.. What power ?

[Johnny_B_Good]

Modified 300 V8.

Not sure what all was done. I could find out from jack @ seapower. I think he was the one that put it on and said it was running 83 with it.

[Johnny_B_Good]

John if your boat is running 55 all loaded up, you should see a significant increase in speed with a light load. Probably 5mph or so. It's also affecting how many rpms you can turn with your prop. That 98 225 is a good motor and you should prop it to turn 6100-6200 with a light load. Judging by your previous numbers, you should be right about there with the 23 quicksilver. In some serious chop, you can probably get the boat up on the pad but it won't happen in calmer water even with more horsepower. The hook kinda makes it near impossible to fly a Paramount. Still a great boat and not slow for a fishing boat at all. Good luck to you. If you ever see me in the keys say hi. I've got the yellow Action with black flames on the deck.

Thanks for the response. I wasn't sure if the lower rpms was from the extra weight or not. I'll be trying different things to see how the speed changes as well the most important, experience.

It's been a great boat so far, and a great first boat i think. I'm loving it. Good all around boat. And whatever speed it puts up is what i got....for now.

I was in the paramount at the July 19th keys run you guys had, but didnt know anyone so kinda kept to myself. You can see the boat in the vid 17actionANT put up @ 25 seconds. Blurry but hey, it put a smile on my face. That was an awesome time. I think you might have parked next to me at the sandbar to, and i had the powerplay behind me. I was parked with the gradywhite, if you remember it and the 2 hotties that were on it. LoL

I had my 2 buddies with actions show up there to. A blue 19' that broke down on the way to the sandbar (lower unit) and my buddy with the red 18' that he bought off here was in my boat.

I'll be sure to say whats up when i see ya. I'm planning on being in the keys this weekend.

-John

[Action Dave]

OK i remember seeing the paramount with the Johnson. I was talking to your buddy for a while there. Well good times, i'll see you out on the water one of these weekends.

[Reaction19]

Eighty With The V8 Maybe. Not With Your V6. 60 Would Be Fast With Yoursetup. Ill Be Out Thu=is Weekend In My Reaction Look For Me And Maybe We Can Try It Out. Also Are You The One That Came And Looked At My Boat In The Keys With Your Friend.

[Reaction19]

Yeah You Are I Just Read The Post. Look Me Up We'll Make Some Passes.

[Reaction19]

Ill Be Down There With My Reaction, My Uncles Cigarette, And My Dad's Monza. Should Be A Good Race Between You And My Oldmans Fishing Boat. 23 Foot With T-top And A 250efi.

[northernoffshore]

I talked to the dolphin guys at the powerplay auction, and they said they did not want the sport deck mold. So they must of took it any way. They should start producing the 25' in limited numbers, I know there could be a market for it. Who are the 21' paramount guys out there? I am working on a 21 and the owner bought a used 250xs for it and the boat is going to be painted, so what about the hook in the bottom. Has anyone removed it and how would you start? thanks jay.

[Powerplay25]

I talked to the dolphin guys at the powerplay auction, and they said they did not want the sport deck mold.

That's what I thought. I was surprised when Steve1 said they still have the molds.

[Johnny_B_Good]

Eighty With The V8 Maybe. Not With Your V6. 60 Would Be Fast With Yoursetup. Ill Be Out This Weekend In My Reaction Look For Me And Maybe We Can Try It Out. Also Are You The One That Came And Looked At My Boat In The Keys With Your Friend.

That speed of 80+ with the v8 on it was what the mechanic said. I never saw it run those speeds. So that could just be him bragging/exagerrating. Maybe someday, money permitting, i'll find out what it can really do. I'm pretty sure i can get alittle over 60 right now with everything just right. Which i gotta try and figure out.

Ya that was me that looked at your Reaction. Damn nice boat there. But alittle out of my league for a first boat, i also wanted something i could toy with, see the effects the changes make, and learn from them. And i always liked the paramounts. Yours seemed pretty well done up, and had alot of work i didnt/dont understand yet. Plus, this guy with the paramount came down to what i wanted to pay for his boat, so I jumped on it.


Yeah You Are I Just Read The Post. Look Me Up We'll Make Some Passes.
LoL. My boat aint got nothing for yours with my ~ 60mph. Come on now, dont be picking on me just yet.


Ill Be Down There With My Reaction, My Uncles Cigarette, And My Dad's Monza. Should Be A Good Race Between You And My Oldmans Fishing Boat. 23 Foot With T-top And A 250efi.

Cool, you guys should be easy to spot then. I still wanna go to the keys this weekend. I have a feeling it will be way to packed here in miami, but my friends i ride out with in their angler and contender wanna go to Elliot Key... so i havent decided where i'm going yet. If i'm in the Keys i'll find ya out there.

[Reaction19]

sounds good!

[Action Dave]

Elliot is ghetto...too many wannabe thugs throwing bottles at each other cause they can't hold their liqour. Plus, I hate friggin reggaton or whatever that spanish crap they play is called.

[Johnny_B_Good]

same here. bout the people and music. i dont mind some hip hop and asses shakin, what guy would, but no reggaeton, not for me.

[Paramountboy]

Hey guys, first time poster here.
I'm in the process of restoring an 85 21 Paramount. I've been reading these threads about the hook in the hull.
Does anyone have any 1st hand experiance of taking out the hook? I've just replaced the decks, so I'm confident I can modify the hull.
Is it really worth the work?

Also, how about power? The speed demon in me wants to go with an older OMC V8 (Because it's cheap power ) but the little voice in my head says to build a Merc 3.0

What do you guys think?

[alwayssomethin]

I had a 90 paramount w/ 2.5 200 no air box, bobs tuner, reeds, and no can in mid, it ran 62 on gps w/ 2 people cooler of ice and 10 gal. fuel and no hull work w/ 22p laserII. I did have a jackplate and turned 6400 but no lw pickup its posible to run in the 60s w/the right setup. I figure a lw pickup and surface pircing prop would be good for a few more mph

[Reaction19]

i'd build a 3.0l merc just because it will use less fuel than the v8 and also it's lighter. the v8 will no doubt make more power but theirs always people selling parts for the merc. i think it would run good and not be terribly bad on fuel either. as for the bottom im not sure never messed with the bottom of a boat.

[Reaction19]

it's a nice boat just not a rocket.

[sillybilly]

i had a 1997 paramount built it brand new with a 250 efi merc and in 1997 there wasnt a reaction or openfish that could pass it.had 3 of them and then built the 4th,its a great boat my buddy still has his 1997 with a 225 and for sure he probally has the fastest paramount today.dont let anybody say paramounts wont run over70 and that they wont run over 75.you just have to learn the boat and a vew things and you got it.

[Reaction19]

and make them as thin as an onion skin. silly your secrets are out the game is over.....

[sillybilly]

well people said a paramount wouldt run build it like a reation light weigt and it will go.it was sure a fun boat back in the day ask the pr ask around the bay all white and red .

[Paramountboy]

Hmmmm yeah. I think I may go with the 3 liter. I think the V8's weight will be a disadvantage. Back in '96 Mariner made a white 3 liter. That might be an eye catcher. A white 250 with red decals. Thats and idea!

[Reaction19]

just paint the mercury white. same thing as the mariner just different color.

[tkendall]

I have an '08 21 and it runs in the low 60's with a t-top, 225 e-tec 15x24 rebel prop

[Johnny_B_Good]

I've gotten my boat up to 58.8 mph now. That was with the DAH worked 22 pitch Raker around 5750 rpms and 4 people/almost full gas/etc, heading out to elliot key... doesnt seem like i can spin that prop anymore then that. Top speed is usually around 56 with a load like that.

The 23 pitch quicksilver i would get up to 6100 rpms but ~56mph is all it would get. The rpms seem to high for that low of a speed imo.

I've heard that Rakers' prop sizing is underestimated by 2 inches. Is this true? Am i actually running a 24 pitch? Would make sense since i'm running lower rpms with a supposed smaller pitch prop.