TrophyPlus worth to try??

[C-Webb]

I have a boat with a straight vee bottom, she is a 18 footer with a 88" beam and dry weight is about 1350lbs without engine. Currently I'm running a 07' 200 Opti with a 23 pitch MiragePlus, motor is mounted on the transom on the 3rd hole (middle hole) and with that setup the vent plate is slightly above the water when running on plane, I think the propshaft is about 5" below the bottom line. Last summer I couldn't have a lot of seat time but I managed to make a 62.9 mph pass with two on board @5400rpm. I felt there is some more way to go, maybe 65mph is possible but I get some chine walk above 57-58 mph.

I heard that MiragePlus props have a fairly agressive pitch and most of the time more than the number says. I am considering a 23" Trophy Plus, and wondering if it will help to reduce the chine walk vs. an agressively pitched 3-blade prop?? Maybe I can also raise the engine on the 4th or 5th hole with Trophy for better handling as I have pretty much blowouts with the MiragePlus even with the motor on the 3rd hole.

Sorry for the long explanation, any help-advice is pretty much appreciated :)

[C-Webb]

To give some idea...

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/Znero/IMG_0233.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/Znero/IMG_0232.jpg

[fast fun 2]

You will always pick up speed over an aluminium prop with an SS prop. Id raise the motor one bolt hole, it looks fairly low to me. That may also help with the chine walking.

[hsbob]

the trophy will help the reduce the chime walk. set up correctly the boat should see close to 70. you will need to add 8"+_ setbackand raisethe motor up some. you will needto get a water pressure guage and keep the pressure in the higher teens. if you can go for the low water pick up get it. over heating ob is very costly.

i used a mirage and found the trophy a better prop.

[C-Webb]

Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate it :thumbsup:

There is some photo update... I put a grey line in the first picture to get an idea about where the waterline is. According to this, a bit of the prop is surfacing when on plane, right??

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/Znero/IMG_8007_line.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/Znero/IMG_8012.jpg

[C-Webb]

Now the question is, do you think a 23" TrophyPlus with a one hole higher engine on the transom (it makes .75 in higher than current setup) would provide a better balance and a reasonable hole shot at the same time??

I know these Mirage props like to run deep in the water but even in my setup, which is pretty deep already, I get ventilation when I have a little bit of positive trim?!? I measure the prop shaft about 5.5 inches below the bottom line.

Thanks for any input...

[pyro]

I always thought Mirages were meant for I/O's, running buried deep.

Measure propshaft height with the motor trimmed LEVEL.

The Trophy Plus will likely be WAY better.

[fast fun 2]

Shouldnt really need much trim at all until your really rolling.

[C-Webb]

Measurements made considering the neutral trim level, in the pictures I just couldn't level the engine as I don't have enough ground clearance at that place.

Thanks again for all the replies...

It seems that a Trophy should be on the way. If I go for a 23 pitch, the same as current Mirage prop, would my RPMs drop or stay at similar numbers??

[Ally225]

I got worked by DAH best prop I have ever run:eek:

[C-Webb]

Could anyone make an estimate whether the RPMs would drop or stay the same as 23" Mirage??

Both 23" pitch stamped numbers of course, and Mirage has 14.625" dia vs. Trophy's 13.750" dia. But another factor is that the Trophy is smaller hub whereas Mirage has the larger one!?!

Any guesses are appreciated, thanks :thumbsup:

[pyro]

RPM's may drop a little, as the Trophy props usually run taller than they're stamped. This could also mean same RPM's and more MPH.

[Wizard]

I gather from the photos is a fairly common Deep V runabout like a Sea Ray or Bayliner. These are heavy boats that need to be lifted. The Mirage is a decent prop for that but not on your boat. My first inclination is to have you move the engine back with a jackplate but I would be hesitent unless I knew what kind of boat it was. A Sea Ray transom can take the setback but not a Bayliner. Regardless setback is what you need to really make it run.

The best you can do now is raise the motor up as high as it can go. You need to have the propshaft about 3.5" below the V. Anymore than that and all your doing is adding drag.

The proper way to measure is this. Using a bubble level level out the trailer. Next put the bubble level on the cavitation plate of the motor and trim to level. Measure the bottom most part of the hull to the ground. Then measure the center of the prop shaft (center of nut holding prop on). Minus the propshaft measurement from the hull measurement and this is your engine height. This is what needs to be 3.5". Chances are you can't move your engine up on the transom which is why you need a jackplate. You may be able to get by with a small static 4" plate.

For props your going to get your best result with the Tempest Plus. You will be able to go up to a 24p because for every "you move up you gain close to 200 rpms.

[hsbob]

ive used both on a hs voyager the rpm difference between the mir and trophy is almost zero. the trophy should be slightly lower. i found the mir as good as the tempest or lazer. the 4 blade trophy is far easier to drive.

[C-Webb]

The boat is not that heavyweight, about 1300-1350 lbs. bare hull and I don't have any extra gear on the boat except those obligatory stuff battery, fuel tank etc. :) Also the transoms on these boats are very healthy, very thick and solid, I can bolt anything on it but I don't really think to do right now as the budget this year does not allow more than the 23" Trophy :smiletest: So, in a few maybe the boat will also be replaced therefore I don't want to invest much more in this hull :leaving:

Currently I'm about 5.5-6 inch below and the max. I can raise is about 4-4.5 inch below the v-bottom. I thought this would be enough considering the engine is bolted on the transom. Now the motor is on the middle hole. What would be your advice, to raise it one hole at first (0.75 inch) or should go for the max directly (1.5 in higher) ??

Thanks for all inputs and recommendations :thumbsup:

[whipper]

I personally would raise it up the max! Your rpm will stay the same or even better if you raise your motor with the Trophy prop. Your going to be 3 inches below still. I think that is respectable even without a low water pick up. If you don't have a water pressure gage that would be an inexpensive idam to install. In the mean time monitor your temperature gage that should give you indications of lack water but i don't think it will be a problem with a 1300lb boat. I run a 25 trophy 1/4 inch below the bottom of my hull but mind you my hull is totally different and I have low water pickups. The point being trophy's can run much higher than you will be with out issues. As in any vee hull over 65 there will be chine walk. You must learn how to balance the hull for it not to chine walk if you expect 70mph. to get that speed safetly learning how to counter steer the side to side motion is key because you will need to free the hull up with trim to get there. Another reason you need a water pressure gage. As the motor is trimmed, the further from the water the water pick ups will be.If your tempature indicates to hot that may be to late! Water pressure is SOOOO INPORTANT FOR COOLING AT ANY SPEED. What is the make of your hull? Can you post a pic of the whole boat? That would help. There are articals on chine walking on Google. I would sugest looking for one how to master chine walk. That will explain in detail whats happening and how to avoid it.Theres several and some with good detailed video. Belive me there is no boat that chine walks if balanced,setup, and {DRIVEN} properly. Im not saying anything about your driveing. Its a learnning curve a lot of people dont realize its not so much the boat as it is the driver. You must learn it. Once learned you can drive a vee hull straight with no chine walk. Like almost every one has said raise the motor. Simple enough. Get a eye bolt that screws into the top of your flywheel and a pully,chain,what ever is stable that has a 1000-2000lb capacity and rise it up. You dont want to drop an expensive motor!! Even a fork lift if available with a big enough capacity. When you raise your motor the speed from take off will be faster excelerating due to less drag from the motor and the hull freeing up quicker. You should reach the speed were it used to chine walk. Once you feel that hold it there and just trim the motor one or two bumps up. Your speed should increase from that point but the chine walk will be there more than before. Thats what you want!:D That means you freed the hull up more than before and you have to learn how to drive her with out that happening in order to reach higher top speeds. It takes some getting used to lots of practice but youll get it. Once you do youll never forget and wonder what all the fuss was about.:thumbsup:.

[C-Webb]

Thank you very much whipper for the detailed info, that was very helpful :thumbsup:

I have the smartcraft gauges, so I can monitor the water temp. and pressure. The 3.0L gearcase also has the lower water pickups on the front of the torpedo but no nosecone of course, as far as I know 10-15 psi water pressure @WOT should be fine, is that right??

I have read many posts and articles about chinewalking, so I'm aware of it but really need to experience and learn to drive boat. So far I have backed the throttle when the boat started to walk as I knew that I had not a very well set-up rig. So after trying the Trophy and raising the engine I will work on the driving side more.. I just wanted to be sure when I will raise it to top hole would I suffer with too much ventilation and too much slip:confused: But as you say this is not likely to happen with the Trophy Plus.

Thanks again for caring to write such a long answer:cheers:

[Wizard]

If you don't have the money to invest into a jackplate and prop then all you can do is raise the motor. If your in the middle hole then by raising it all the way up your not going to get to where you need to be which is 3.5". Hopefully close. I would not worry about water pressure. Your nowhere near high enough to lose it with the stock opti gearcase. By moving it up to the top holes you should gain 200-300 rpms.

Without the setback you will probably not gain much on top, maybe a few mph. That is if you can drive it with the chinewalk. The chinewalk will be reduced greatly with 8" of setback. The setback will allow leverage to raise the hull instead of trim. It's the high trim angle needed to carry the hull that is a primary cause of chinewalk.

Also once it starts to chinewalk don't chop the throttle. This can lead to a dangerous loss of control. When chinewalk starts try to control with with steering input. Once it gets too bad for you just trim down and put the hull back in the water. This will stop it so you can trim up and try again.

Can you tell us what model boat it is?

[whipper]

No probs CWeb. thats what were all hear for.:thumbsup: I know if it wasn't for S&F and the Allison board I would be at the shop instead of doing it myself thats for for sure. Once you drive her with the set up changed this year maybe next year think about what Wizard was saying about some set back. A hydraulic jack may be all you need or just a set back plate motor fixed position. Like Wizard mentioned knowing what hull you have is good to know because others who have set up a similar boat perhaps and one can gain from there tests with different setups others have tried. Set back helps top end stability. Theres a balance point on every boats setup. The engine being a heavy component of the hull out back is off set by the wieght forward passangers ect.. the amout your hull will free up is in direct proportion of what speeds you can acheive with a given power. With more set back to a degree you will require less trim to free the hull and have a better running angle for those speeds to a point. Its the candeleaver effect. Ussualy the heavier the motor the less set back that is required. Hull design also plays a big factor but i think you get the picture. Thats a brief simple explanation. Aromarine reaserch is the place to visit for more detailed reading on that stuff. i know some guys dont need any set back and some bigger hulls require 20+inches. Mine uses 12 with a light motor and with heavier motors than my light one some guys are at 4 to 6 and 9 depending on motor and purpose. Something to consider anyway down the road.

[C-Webb]

Guys I owe you much, really!! I understand the setback is very important to have better lift and more stability. Maybe I could think of a static spacer for a temporary solution, then the next year a jackplate maybe.. First I'd like to see how the boat will behave with the 23 Trophy which I have bolted recently, waiting impatiently for the winds to calm down :( And also raise the engine 1.5 inch higher and see again the difference...

Wizard I also thank you very much, I really really appreciate your knowledge and your try to help. By the way I think you wouldn't know this model of boat because it's a local builder here, a very respected and trusted builder which imports many boats to Europe, actually they sell most of their boats to foreign markets. But of course they're not the kind of high-perf. superlight boat builder which you have a lot over there. The high-perf. boat market is almost non-existent here :mad:
I post now a few pics for you to see the situation better.. Thanks again for everything you write on this thread :thumbsup:

[C-Webb]

A better angle of view for the propshaft height.. This is the 23" MiragePlus as you would notice..

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/Znero/IMG_1081.jpg

[C-Webb]

These are taken while doing a 58-59 mph pass.. All pictures are involving the Mirage prop..

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/Znero/IMG_0108.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/Znero/IMG_0129.jpg

[C-Webb]

And finally these are for a good view of the hull :)

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/Znero/IMG_8266.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/Znero/IMG_8269.jpg

[whipper]

She looks great! Always make sure the passangers are stagered to even the distrabution. Wieght distrabution is half the battle with chine walking. When your buy your self try to get the hull level in the water with you jn her. i took some dumbell wieght with me for a while to figure out what wieght worked best by my self on the port {right} side usually. it works good to have a buddy look at the hull while stationary in the water and adjust accordingly. Once you establish what wieght you need alway have it in the boat. I use led shot bags stuffed in the gunnel and forget about it. When i have a passenger I have to move my battery charger to the starboard aft compartment to compensate to fly level with more ease. Look forward to hearing how you make out. Later James

[C-Webb]

..for the compliment :) Although it's not nearly as sharp as your boats it's OK to some extent :p

I think it's a very good idea to add some static weight to help the distribution :thumbsup: I'll certainly try to do it. Thanks and have a nice weekend :)