knowing your limitations...

[fishnchips]

I have sprayed everything, car, house, fence, garage, bike....but never awlgrip which is expensive and can kill you (suck a bunch of MEK and see what it does to nervous system...) vs latex paint...Need to have the old gelcoat on hull on my boat redone and dont want to do it myself. What is a good $/foot measure for a turn key paint job of 'grip? Need 30 footer preped, taped (with grip) and sprayed with grip and clear coat to protect... What should I expect to pay for someone who is any good???:eek: prepared for sticker shock but just need to know what is reasonable vs ripped off? I have a phone quote but tryng to tell if guy is robbing me or is doing me a favor...

Thanks guys

[RobF]

you dont say what kind of boat, but around here it would be anywhere from $150-$200 per foot depending on the boat, hull only- nothing below the waterline, nothing above the rub rail.

You also dont need the clearcoat with the awlgrip, the only benefit it serves with awlgrip is if they sand the color coat BEFORE they clear it, this way it lays down better.

[afr]

im 275 a ft with (blue lable) plus color sand and clear-cote
200 for awl-craft 2000 with clear-cote

it really depends on how good a job you want
you get what you pay for in the paint business

[RobF]

I say $150 because if its a smaller go-fast hull then its on the less inexpensive side compared to lets say a larger cruiser type.

$275 a foot for HULL ONLY around here no one would pay that- your lucky to be getting that much.

http://robx-7.nopistons.com/d/1014-1/sr+020.jpg

[afr]

yea i should say it really depends on the job your right
that's for the bigger boats
this one was 275 with stripes no clear plus from the windshield out on the bow with stripes as well
the car was 12000 with body work hurican droped a building on it the roof was crused the hood was broke yada yada

[RobF]

$275 with stripes from the windshield out is not the same as a hull only ;)

[afr]

yea i got mixed up sorry
whats your price on a over all per ft

[RobF]

per case basis

[afr]

well I'm 375 a per ft for a over all
in Miami we use to get twice that back in the 80,s
and they were standing line 3 deep
we did about 50 offshore race boats all 28 ft up to 40 ft


either way nice work

[fishnchips]

Hull only (rub to waterline) bagged and taped. Dont need any work, no dings or scrathes, just a sand, spray primer, spray 3 coats of grip and 2 clear, sanding in beteen each. Does good work and was reccoommended by a buddy. The boat is a Fount 31...8'4 beam so a small boat.

[RobF]

$110 is great

[afr]

really 110 ft
that's a deal forsure
what paint is it blue label or red label

[fishnchips]

:rolleyes: Not sure what label, sounds like I should ask the question? He just said he would shoot with awlgrip...sounds like I should ask the question though???. $3100 for the hull- no striping done that would be another $550 for 3m bootstripev and $900-ish for paint bootstripe. Another $2000 for bottom strip and paint. What should I be looking out for and any other questions to ask????

[WILDMAN]

Geeze! I guess I'm too cheap. I just painted a 25ft cat, both sides, above and below rubrail, no deck, in pearls with fades and graphics, and fixed stress cracks, and clearcoated, and sanded and buffed to a mirror finish for $3200!
I'm now painting a new 30 Liberator, all over with 6 colors and lots of graphics, buffed to a mirror finish. I priced the paintjob at $6500.

[WILDMAN]

I never put on more than 2 colors a day. I use PPG and House of Kolor.

[afr]

what are you useing shop line ??
IMO
you should never have to buff a job
i would rather 800 and re clear it then buff it

[WILDMAN]

I use DBC basecoat. I always sand and buff everything. I want the mirror finish so you can count the hairs on your head in the refllection. I just finished the sides of this 30 Liberator yesterday. Now I gotta do the top. If it does'nt shine like the 2nd pic, then it's not shiney enough. It took 3 guys 9 hours to sand and buff the sides of this boat.

<a href="http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t117/Randycorson/?action=view&current=100_0959.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t117/Randycorson/100_0959.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t117/Randycorson/?action=view&current=100_0958.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t117/Randycorson/100_0958.jpg" border="0" alt="30 reflection"></a>

[RobF]

never buff a paint job?

buffing it makes the paint job stand out.

anyone can shoot a boat and send it on its way.

[WILDMAN]

Fishbotes don't need buffing. Fish don't care! They're gonna die anyway! Of course if I was a fish, I'd like to see a real shiney boat before I die!

[afr]

youll see
i said you should never have to buff it


lol


if you spray it like i do most of the time not all of the time but most of the time no buffing is necessary
just head right to the show
one cote is for the boat, one is for the money ,one is for the show

[fishnchips]

..too bad you never know what you are going to get unless you pay first (how perverse is that?) ....you hit the nail on the head..someone gets an insurance job and get paid 5x...that then sets the market price for Joe Six pack???..thats not the market either. It is somewhere in between and that is BS in my mind. Do like Wildman...Price it right and do a good job. Ultimatly It all gets back to buyer beware...which is the biggest problem with the marine industry...everyone is trying to find the sucker they can get the most most from instead of trying to do a good job for a fair price which leads to customer loyalty and recommendations. Call me an idealist but in industries that are cyclical (like the boating industry), this is the only way to survive over time. I have been in construction for years and I see the same thing. Half my subs try to price the job by the customer instead of by the job. Piss everyone off including me so when business gets tight noone uses them and they go under.

[afr]

paint job

im not that high but i am higher than some
this one was 175 a ft with grafic
so thats not always true
i give good paint
lol

[1BadAction]

i see orange peel. :p J/k.

with automotive type clear, you're going to pay the piper either way. if you flow coat it, you still gotta scuff the finish, pay for extra material, might run into adhesion problems AND its a helluva lot easier to get runs in the flow coat mix (then you still gotta sand and buff anyways, lol). with sanding and buffing its all done in one shot, and there is no question the final finish will be perfectly flat.

[afr]

lol

no way it will all be gone in the am
brother

[RobF]

I dont care who sprays it, you can never, ever, convince me that a sanded and polished paint job wont outshine and impress more then a out the gun job.

Wildman's and my picture is like looking into liquid.

[1BadAction]

yea man, I knew yours was awlgrip. Just tryin to explain why you guys were at a difference of opinion. two totally different paints the finishing is not going to be the same.

I've been told that you cant buff awlgrip after it cures anyways (is this true?). I tried to on imron and couldnt, was slightly cloudy no matter what i did.

[afr]

yes and no
now i see theres as cloudy both rob and wildman
yes it is different paint as far as wild man goes i think rob,s is awlgrip
after you see it in person you will see what i mean
but hey I'm not against polishing but if grip is done just right you should never have to buff it
blue label cannot be buffed red label can be
the blue label was the first white
everything else after that is red label so it can be polished
and will not blush like a automotive clear can
wait till i get it out side

i have used both and all types of paint over the last 30 years and nothing compares to a sprayed grip finish

ps it can always at any time get a detailing

[RobF]

1bad- we have been buffing Imron since it came out.
the pictures I show are Imron.

Im not saying AFRs is not nice, its very nice, im saying sanded and polished is that much nicer.

http://robx-7.nopistons.com/d/2048-1/cl+003.jpg

[afr]

i quess they all have a little cloudyness to each
looks like
if i could paste this shot in you would see the whole back wall and the stuff behind me
we all desever every penny and then some
there is not many painters around like us period

[1BadAction]

I dont think thats cloudiness, its the way the point and shoot cameras pick up on it as close as the pics are being taken.

Rob, sounds good, could have all been in my head. LOL. not everything rubs out as sweet as HOK either :D

[WILDMAN]

If my paintjobs quit shining, I'll go buy a more expensive roller.

[fishnchips]

just looking for a little advice and sparked a war...love to poke a stike whenever I can. So I need to ask my guy if he is using red or blue grip and if he is going to buff after spraying or not. Would love to have one of you guys di it given the passion but I cant hump the hull to FLA from MD, especially with the price of gas and what you guys charge...LOL. Thans for everyone's thoughts.

[afr]

lol
war no way
its a discussion about the difference of car paint verse marine paint
and the cost passed on to the consumer

its all good
lmao

[RobF]

dont say red or blue label- that must be a florida thing

say awlgrip or awlgrip 2000- 2000 being the buffable one thats more like a Imron type paint.

[afr]

rob there is only two kinds
of awl grip
one is the original 50/50 blue label as it was called in the beginning of time
the other one to come along after us paint bought the old man out
is awlgrip #2
and the 2000 you speak of is called awlcraft 2000 again a us paint derivative
which has been called red label since it came out
now i was also the first person in the keys to ever spray the awlgrip #2
and one of the first with the awlcraft as well but not the very first

now it is all under the parent company of us paint
since alwgrip and sterling had there fight back in the early to mid 80,s
i guess it was now
been to many paint fumes since then so the memory is not quite as sharpe these days
the old codgers were a trip IMO
i would assume there are long gone by now R.I.P
they were old then
and the best paint chemists by far to have ever lived
again IMO

[afr]

i dont know how you guys make any money at those prices
other than you must not have near the over head i do


three guys is a cost of what 90,000 a year
45,000 a year for rent

and yet your throwing me under the bus and implying im over charging

[WILDMAN]

i dont know how you guys make any money at those prices
other than you must not have near the over head i do


three guys is a cost of what 90,000 a year
45,000 a year for rent

and yet your throwing me under the bus and implying im over charging

You are absolutly correct! I own my warehouse complex and it's paid for [NO RENT] I have no employees [NO PAYCHECKS] and if I screw up, I have no one to blame but myself.
On the other hand, I no longer do work other than on my boats that I sell. Much less stress! But I have never been a stress out guy anyway. The 25ft cat I recently did was Osprey's. I just felt sorry for a guy that had to drive a babycrap yellow boat, so I painted it for him.
Keep up the good work, I may need glasswork someday!

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t117/Randycorson/Talonrunning.jpg

[afr]

well i had to lay off all my guys so its just me now
seems to be the only way i can make any money
not for me but to just break even
so because i have a higher over head im screwed

[RobF]

afr- who said you were expensive?

I have overhead, 4-5 employees, shop mortgage, never mind my property and payroll taxes, heating bill, electric, so on and so forth.

Hull paint jobs are $175-$200 per foot rail to waterline, decks run min. of $275 per foot, things aint cheap here.

I also cant find a listing in my suppliers for blue label or red label, just awlgrip- where can I read up about these different ones if
your not talking about the 2000?

[afr]

here you go rob
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20793

just a little info on awlgrip
now i only got in on the end of it
so i have not verified it all to be true
nor have read the whole trend

Google awlcraft 2000

but being the Ginnie pig for so many paint companies over the years
i all ways revert back to grip or craft
i like awlcraft cause you can push it right up to the run limit and if it happens no big deal you can block out a run and buff it
but you will not have to buff out the whole boat or what ever you spraying
just maybe a nib file and a light buff is all you would ever have to do
i might just get with my old paint rep and hold a seminar one day to pass on the tricks of using this product
even us paint has come all the way from st louis to watch me and some where there is a training film they made with me and or pictures on the day-bu for the awlgrip #2
back some 15 years or so ago

it is really a coating not a paint so millage is key

here is another link should be better
http://www.mpgstl.com/awlgripmaterials/

[RobF]

the second link shows alwgrip and the 2000, where are these blue and red labels in that first link?

[afr]

i cant find any pictures of the dad gum labels
http://pristinemarinesupplies.com/awtoco.html

but awlcraft has been in a red label package since it came out
awlgrip has been in a blue label can since it came out

so everyone has refered to it as red and blue labels since the conception
even the reps will know which one your are talking about saying red or blue
and they even ask which label some times red or blue

[RobF]

AWLGRIP 2?
is that what your talking about?

do they still sell that?

[afr]

no even awlgrip 2 is in a blue label
i give up
call it what ever

come to the seminar
ill post a date as soon as i get one set up
now who can help me get my hydro ready

[afr]

ah well im sorry

let me say it again

ALL AWLGRIP PRODUCTS COME IN A BLUE AND WHITE LABEL CAN

ALL AWLCRAFT PRODUCTS COME IN A RED AND WHITE CAN

sorry i could not make that clear before

lmao

[RobF]

how could I ever get confused when you make yourself so clear!

[afr]

ooops well now sometime ago for a short while awlcraft came in a all white can
so we bitched and bam back to red and white

lol

[Six Four]

I have never seen a paint job straight out the gun that was perfect(with Automotive paint) I have heard many car show guys talk about a flow coat of clear, I have never tried it but will , I always cutt/buff the ones that count and they come out super. here is a paint job i just did for my Cousin, the first pic is with him wipin it off, and only theoutside was cut/buff note the clear of the light on the outside and inside tunnel,
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t79/sixfour_photo/RN_16t56.jpg
Not cut/buffed yet but in the sun
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t79/sixfour_photo/100_1049-1.jpg
cut/buffed bottom
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t79/sixfour_photo/RN_16t58.jpg
This is PPG base/clear Torch red with five coats of HOK fire ball red flakes and then 4 cotas of straight clear.

[afr]

hey shanon if you look you can even see my truck box lid open in the side of the boat and it is almost directly behind it wait till i get it out side
then you will see
plus look at the glastron it never got buffed as well
if they dont need it why do it
http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn224/allfiberglassrepairs/?action=view&current=Picture342.jpg

[WILDMAN]

I just put the last color on my new 30 Liberator today. I'll clear it Monday. You can't see it here, but the blue has purple pearl fades in it. The black has silver marble in the middle too.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t117/Randycorson/100_0974.jpg

[afr]

nice wild man
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn224/allfiberglassrepairs/Picture265.jpg?t=1208052314

[Six Four]

all of 'em look great,

AFR is that grip paint on the Glastron?

[afr]

yes it is all awlgrip

[1BadAction]

This is PPG base/clear Torch red with five coats of HOK fire ball red flakes and then 4 cotas of straight clear.

how does the flake look when it goes over a similar color? does it still "dance" like when you spray it over something real dark?