32:1 to much oil ???

[lake master]

I have a 200 merc that turns 7k .is 32:1 to much oil .seem to smoke a little more than I like at idol and seems a little sluggish getting up on a plane.. any thoughts. thanks

[specboatops]

Your fine !

[pyro]

50:1 for sub-6000
40:1 for hard-running 6500
32:1 for 7000+ (but may smoke and foul easier)

[Jay Smith]

I'd run it at 40:1 and call it good...( 3 1/2 oz of 2 cycle oil to 1 gal. of premium motor gasoline )

good luck,

[us1]

I have a 200 merc that turns 7k .is 32:1 to much oil .seem to smoke a little more than I like at idol and seems a little sluggish getting up on a plane.. any thoughts. thanks

It will always smoke at idle unless you are running the oil pump system (which i don't recommend). At idle the oil pump system will go to 100:1 Idle smoke is just one of the things we have to put up with when mixing oil.

[Raceman]

For years I ran ALL my stuff at 25:1 and only changed to 32:1 when I started running full synthetic. It may be a little overkill, but heavy oil has served me well for 35 years. I've had 2 powerhead failures in that time................. one when making one quick test blast with somebody else's existing gas in a boat I just bought and was eager to rig & run, and the other when the nylon gear on the oil injection pump failed. This was the only one I'd ever run with oil injection.

In the early days of the V6 race engine Merc's recommended mix was 18:1, but that was prior to synthetic oil.

[terry taylor]

hi. a full synthetic , also helps and might create less carbon and gooey stuff thanks.

[atp]

#1. So, You Guys Do Not See Any Performance(speed/rpm) Decrease When You Run At Higher Oil Concentrations?? ..32:1 Or 25:1...?
#2. You Do Not See Any Increase In Carbon(oil Related) Build-up?

[jphii]

1: No
2: Not on mine.

I run 25:1.

[HM2USMC]

Hello! 28 to 1 in SST45. Smokes on warm up and at idle, but runs great. Sparks plugs are cheap, and heavy oil is good insurence.
Dock

[pyro]

As you get richer oil-wise, the percentage of GASOLINE in each ounce of your fuel mix begins to decrease. Viscosity also is slightly affected. The combination of the two conditions can yield a leaner burn as a result.

A litle extra oil is cheap insurance indeed, but within reason...

[lake master]

Thanks for the imput, I guess a little smoke is not a bad thing afterall,

[Frank Molé]

i run 40-1 at 7,600 + a LOT:eek: with ALISYN OIL all ok:D no smoke................................

[jay1]

i once was in a motorcycle repair shop where for whatever reason. a conversation was started pertaining to "adding a lil oil" to the fuel of a oil injected motor.. the tech responded with.. "poor strait gas through a small funnal....now poor oil through the same funnal" :rolleyes: ....that "image" has always stuck in my head when i rebuild somthing and mix it rich for break in... do ya think that theory holds true??? and if so. is it as concerning between 20:1.........40:1... as temperture is ,???? as far as jetting is concerned.... .... ?????..... not trying to but into someones thread but as i read the post i ???????:rolleyes: ......jason

[sanman116]

Not only does the percentage of gas decrease, your octane also decreases, and at some point would bound to cause detonation. Octane is a measurement of a fuels resistance to burn. be careful with lower than 25:1

[Ted Stryker]

I'll gladly accept correction and criticism, but 2-cycle oil along with decreasing octane, restricting flow through small orifices, it also burns hotter than straight gasoline...

[Mark75H]

Flip that 25:1 and 32:1 over and look at the percentage ... no way is 32:1 to 25:1 oil going to thicken your fuel enough to slow it down in your jets or injectors.

You are talking about 3% or 4% oil and 96% or 97% fuel ... ditto on the octane decrease ... insignificant (don't forget you are comparing 25:1 and 32:1 to 40:1 and 50:1, not zero).


I see a particular Merc engineer at the races once in a while ... he runs his small bore (not V-6) motors at 18:1 all the time ... years of looking at dyno results, no question in his mind of what to do for maximum performance ...

I had been running 32:1 - after that talk I switched to 24:1, sometimes 18:1. Did not need to increase cooling, change jetting or timing. NO FAILURES in 6 years.

[baja200merk]

i ussually run 40:1 but when i know im alone and gonna be "runnin" all day i go to 32:1... Needless to say when i pull up at the bar runnin alone, i get dirty looks walkin up the dock :rolleyes:

[Instigator]

50:1 in my 7 - 7500 stuff and 40:1 for 7501 and up and have NEVER fouled a plug.

Have heard all the theories on octane levels dropping (flows through jets etc)as oil content goes up but I agree with 75H.

I ran kneel down boats for 9 yrs and the motors were 40yr old Mercs and I didn't like buying parts.
I was taught by one of my mentors to run 8:1.
Thats right, 1 quart to 2 gallons and again, NEVER fouled a plug!
I started dwelling on the ocatne issue (thought I was smart) and started testing with different oil ratios.
I went up to 32:1 and saw no improvement.
That being said (written) which do you think prtotects your motors guts better 32:1 or 8:1?

As far as smoking at idle that is like US1 said, part of the game with no oil injection. If you work though, you can normally improve drastically on what you see most guys running.
I spend quite a bit of time on most of my motors setting the carb linkage, idle timing and idle jetting.
You can reduce probably 50% of the smoke at idle (once motor is warm) by doing that.
Gary

[Mark75H]

I see a particular Merc engineer at the races once in a while ... he runs his small bore (not V-6) motors at 18:1 all the time ... years of looking at dyno results, no question in his mind of what to do for maximum performance ...

Forgot to add ... he is a multi time champion in many classes, not a bookworm, Walter Mitty or wannabe

[Laker]

I had an engineer tell me a few years back “You will never see a dyno sheet that will show less power with more oil… Run 18:1”:rolleyes: :D

[Jay Smith]

Well for those who, like myself , would like to KNOW if addition of a heavier mix of 2 cycle oil make for fuel that is thicker viscosity or specific gravity I put it to bed with my own controlled test..


Test :
Took a beaker of unleaded fuel and weighed it with fuel hydrometer with NO oil added the specific gravity reading was .735.. I then added a pre measured amount of 2 cycle oil in proportion to a 50:1 fuel/gas mix and weighed the mix , it weighed .740 I then added exactly double the amount of oil to the beaker a proportion of 25:1 and weighed the specific gravity, the weight INCREASED by .10 specific gravity or .750 . Does it make a difference, dunno but for those who didn't believe it will make a fuel thicker and somewhat hinder or sightly restrict its movement tru a jet or injector with the same amount of pressure pushing it think this "should " show it will..

I furnished results, Draw your OWN CONCUSSIONS...

Have a great weekend,

[Mark75H]

Jay, viscosity and specific gravity are not related. Just because one liquid is heavier than another does not make it more viscous.

Here are 2 liquids to demonstrate this:

Honey

Mercury

Mercury has a specific gravity nearly 10 times greater than honey, but is much less viscous.

Pour a few ounces of honey into a small funnel, it will take minutes for the honey to run thru the funnel. Pour the same volume of mercury into the same funnel. It will take only seconds for the mercury to run thru, this is a viscosity test.

[Jay Smith]

Guess we will have to respectively disagree again. ( as usual.. LOL ) you are talking about things with two different propertys ( medias ) completely. If you were to thicken up the honey by taking away the moister content would'nt it flow through a metered system SLOWER... I'm refering to something that the base is the same ( motor gasoline ) just adding a catalyst to make the same property thicker ... You are IMO comparing apples to pecans and proving what ???? To heck with Mercury witch is a metal and honey which is not, lets get back to apples and apples...

If your "theroy" is sound then how come you have to increase the jet size or injector duration by LARGE number or amounts to run an engine on .825 ish specific gravity methanol. And when a thinner SG fuel is added to an engine it becomes RICHER because of the greater amounts going to that engine thru the same jet or injector at the same pressure????

Again guess we will have to agree to disagree........

Respectfully in disagreement,
Jay

[Mark75H]

If your "theroy" is sound then how come you have to increase the jet size or injector duration by LARGE number or amounts to run an engine on .825 ish specific gravity methanol. And when a thinner SG fuel is added to an engine it becomes RICHER because of the greater amounts going to that engine thru the same jet or injector at the same pressure????


You have to increase jet size to run methanol because the molecule is not 100% fuel. Part of the space is taken up by non-fuel, more jet size is needed to flow the same amount of fuel. It is not due to specific gravity.

Jay, you are the one who introduced the different characteristics, not me.

[Jay Smith]

Guess so :confused:??

That still doesn't answer why thinner specific gravity fuel
( motor gasolines ) richen up a motor when introduced..If you don't agree with that guess the conversation has drawn to a end.

You and I have as usual come to an "agree to disagree" situation on this subject.

BUT thats OK thats what this board is for sharing information and opinions.

Have a GREAT weekend..

[pyro]

I'd like to see a flow test, done once, then done again with the injectors swapped as a control measure.

[eli]

engine parts look newer at 32/1, i tell tale from wrist pins blueing from bearings on pins and crank journals means need more oil. am i correct?

[Mark75H]

I'd like to see a flow test, done once, then done again with the injectors swapped as a control measure.

I would like to see the same test ... 0 oil, 50:1 (2%), 32:1 (3%) and 25:1 (4%). I bet there is no detectable difference in fuel mixture strength between 2% and 4% oil

[Riverman]

If you were to thicken up the honey by taking away the moisture content would'nt it flow through a metered system SLOWER... Honey has no moisture in it. I say this as a proud son of a beekeeper. :)

[eli]

what about 2" waves or 4" waves or 2" of rain or 4" of rain while this may seem silly 1% seems quite big in the oil ratio arena, i,m not an expert on this but on my prior redo at 40 to 1 i had slight blueing ,now at 110 hours no blueing same oil merc hi perf blend 2. at 33/1.

[David Borg]

What about octane? will a richer oil mix lower fuel octane ?

just a thought

[mindblock]

Dyno specs on 50:1 (black line) and 18:1 (red line) ...Not sure on other ratios.


http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t4/domains/specs.jpg

[Jay Smith]

Hummmm , looks like the difference in the oil/fuel ratios DID make a difference ..;)

Tough to see very clear.

[j_martin]

Honey has no moisture in it. I say this as a proud son of a beekeeper. :)

You may be the proud son of a beekeeper, but honey without moisture is mostly fructose (a white solid). It's actually about 1/3 water, maybe slightly less.

[Mark75H]

[QUOTE=mindblock;1322455]Dyno specs on 50:1 (black line) and 18:1 (red line) ...Not sure on other ratios.


What was the bore of the motor in this test?

I never said 18:1 was good for big bore motors

[Instigator]

Dyno specs on 50:1 (black line) and 18:1 (red line) ...Not sure on other ratios.


http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t4/domains/specs.jpg

nothing.

I think in theory it should make a difference but wonder if in practice it's just not enough to measure??

Kinda like the engineer saying a bridge will flex under the weight of a feather being dropped on it but we are not capable of measuring it.

[T-REX]

Don't no didly bout oil, or what iz betta....But I run 25:1 in my lil 2.0's and dey like it!!!

Tha reason I tried it wuz kuz I seen wher Ducati motorcycles race'in division wuz dyno tess'in thier motacycle and wuz tess'in differn oils at differnt ratios...and tha mota cycle made mo hp/torque wit 25:1, over 30:1!!!....And this wuz repeated with 3 or 4 diffrent brand/type oils with the same outkum...

I wuz use'in that stinky penzoil synthetik...it leevez a big ball ov smoke at tha start, but all iz good after!!!....

Oh, I juss run 40:1 one everthang else(river motas)....

[BigRedAlli]

I would like to see the same test ... 0 oil, 50:1 (2%), 32:1 (3%) and 25:1 (4%). I bet there is no detectable difference between 2% and 4%


I wonder if Mr. Tony B could/would settle this argument? :D

[John Richied]

I had no idea I was supposed to be adding oil to my gas. :D :D :D

[Maple Leaf]

I had no idea I was supposed to be adding oil to my gas. :D :D :D


:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Mark75H]

I just realized one of my posts could be taken out of context and misunderstood. I went back and added a few words to clarify it.

The post was immediately following posts about oil decreasing fuel in the fuel/air mixture ratio.

I do not believe a 2% change in fuel/air ratio is detectable in performance. I believe others disagree with me because there are a lot of numbers between 25 and 50, so there must be a difference. The real difference is between 4 and 2, which is only 2.

If someone can show me a repeatable performance difference with 1% or 2% change in fuel I'll be convinced.

[YELLOWSS]

my first merc would loose some power on the top end at 40 to 1. it also smoked bad at a idle. i found out it was wore out reeds!!!!!!!!!!! replaced the reeds smoked a lot less at idle and turned on. if it is smoking like your burning coal at a idle check the reeds!!!!!!