Anyone run a cryo'd spark plug?

[lokinutz]

Talked to a guy this week who does cryo treating here in Phoenix and he is claiming to be getting a lot of postitive feedback on cryo'd sparkplugs. He is stating that the cryogenic process aligns the molecules and allows for better electrical conductance through the plug, while increasing the electron flow capability of the center electrode. Has anyone here ever run one? He is charging 12$ a plug.

I found this pretty interesting (and pricey) and was wondering if anyone here has experience with this or done any other reading on it. B.S., or not?

[Jay Smith]

I haven't done spark plugs BUT I have found that the process makes some of the aluminum engine parts less likely to gum my tooling while maching which shows me that they are getting more ridged ( durable and less likely to move around during stress )

I use 300 Below INC. in Decatur , Ill. 1 217-423-3070

THANKS for sharing the good information,

[Markus]

Talked to a guy this week who does cryo treating here in Phoenix and he is claiming to be getting a lot of postitive feedback on cryo'd sparkplugs. He is stating that the cryogenic process aligns the molecules and allows for better electrical conductance through the plug, while increasing the electron flow capability of the center electrode. Has anyone here ever run one? He is charging 12$ a plug.

I found this pretty interesting (and pricey) and was wondering if anyone here has experience with this or done any other reading on it. B.S., or not?

If conduction through the plug core was an issue, the spark plug manufacturers would put in conductors with greater area. That would be a lot less expensive as well.

[Hottrucks]

with some of the new spark plug stuff we see for automotive I'm surprised that we haven't seen anything new in marine apps. I'm think like the platinum kind of stuff

good read

[terry taylor]

HI. My understanding is that copper is the best in conduting spark or current. [Hence copper house wiring ac. or dc.] ,but copper is naturaly soft and they need replacement regularly [which is not a bad thing with 2-strokes].Platinum ,Iridium , and so on are very hard exotic metals for advertised long life [like never have to change your plugs for xxxx thousands of miles. It took a long time to see the high energy ignitions adapted to many auto. but this and exotic metals go hand in hand . [ P.S. remember what ever your choice ask the parts counter attendent if the molecules are aligned ] thanks.

[hsbob]

the more Platinum ,Iridium used in plug the longer they will last, but the cost could go to $40 a plug. copper would last about 10 sec in the combustion chamber. it takes a lot of test to certify the metals in the lab. when i interviewed for a job in the ac plant about a 1/4 of the surface area was for test engines.

[terry taylor]

HI. Copper plugs have and still are used to-day. could you clarify your copper comment for us thanks?

[lokinutz]

I believe he is saying copper used in a center electrode.

[mmassm]

LOKINUTZ,call 300 Below and ask for Bob Reed. I believe he's head of Mtr Sports Div. . Very knowledgeable and great gentelman to talk to.217-423-3070.

[terry taylor]

the more Platinum ,Iridium used in plug the longer they will last, but the cost could go to $40 a plug. copper would last about 10 sec in the combustion chamber. it takes a lot of test to certify the metals in the lab. when i interviewed for a job in the ac plant about a 1/4 of the surface area was for test engines.

HI. [hsbob] With respect, the topic is spark plugs . It is already a known platinum and iridium are on the market and they don,t cost anywhere near 40$ a plug. I have asked you to explain your comment on copper plugs. You made a flipant remark and then let it hang. For the many on this forum it is not fair thanks.

[Mark75H]

HI. My understanding is that copper is the best in conduting spark or current. [Hence copper house wiring ac. or dc.]

Actually copper is second to silver, but copper is cost effective in most applications.

I don't know of any purpose of cryo'ing a spark plug other than to take your money. Good work if you can get it :)

[David]

Gold conducts better than silver. The cost is higher as well.

[Mark75H]

Gold conducts better than silver. The cost is higher as well.
Look it up

[David]

You are right. We use gold plated contacts on some safety connections in the auto industry. It must be for corrosion resistance. I had assumed incorrectly that resistance was part of the reason.

I'm must an old mechanical engineer.

[Forkin' Crazy]

Sounds like "snake oil" to me.

[Forkin' Crazy]

HI. [hsbob] With respect, the topic is spark plugs . It is already a known platinum and iridium are on the market and they don,t cost anywhere near 40$ a plug. I have asked you to explain your comment on copper plugs. You made a flipant remark and then let it hang. For the many on this forum it is not fair thanks.

HI

Champion makes some copper core plugs, but the electrode is not....

I know this is a thread on spark plugs, but can you explain what "flipant" means?

Thanks! :D

[Bartman39]

If ya wanna know what the hot ticket is for spark plugs then just check with the Nascar boys... ;)

Big AL might know this one...?

[flabum1017]

With running 32:1 oil in these HO motors, anything more than a standard copper plug would be a waste, most plugs foul before they actually wear out. Fish motors like the Opti's and four bangers benefit more from higher end plugs like Iridiums.

I'd rather change my plugs every 50 - 100 hours, that way, I always have fresher plugs in plus it helps in watching the burn.

[flabum1017]

HI

I know this is a thread on spark plugs, but can you explain what "flipant" means?

Thanks! :D

I think that word belongs on a list from another thread :D

[Mark75H]

If ya wanna know what the hot ticket is for spark plugs then just check with the Nascar boys... ;)

Big AL might know this one...?

Not everything that works on 4 strokes translates to 2 strokes, you can't make statements like this one and always be right

[Bartman39]

I understand that 2 strokes and 4 strokes are different in many ways but you might consider that in Nascar they have resources and tech well beyond what we even dream of... So I dont think they run "off the shelf" stuff without someone trying or finding a way to get and edge...?

Also some on here use std type electrode plugs while others swear by the button end type (of course depends on the app)... With this thread about cryo application to a plug dont you thing the Nascar boys have long since worked on this...? The goal is a cleaner more effective burn no matter 2 or 4 stroke... If your to short sited to think a multi billion dollar racing industry cant offer something that your looking for then heck ask the Formula 1 guys...?

Also I will continue to post my thoughts no matter what because thats what a disscusion forum is about... So do you really want to silence and alternative right or wrong...?

[terry taylor]

HI

Champion makes some copper core plugs, but the electrode is not....

I know this is a thread on spark plugs, but can you explain what "flipant" means?

Thanks! :D

Hi. Yes I spelled it wrong, [flippant] .It relates to short ,shallow that is why I ask for a fuller explanation to benifit all who might take interest in this. Spark plugs do spark interest. I feel $ 40 plugs deserves interest and melting copper also. Yes what you are saying is understandable .Is this what he meant ? I try to be mannerly when I ask for fuller explanation and mostly for everyones benefit thanks .

[Mark75H]

I understand that 2 strokes and 4 strokes are different in many ways but you might consider that in Nascar they have resources and tech well beyond what we even dream of... So I dont think they run "off the shelf" stuff without someone trying or finding a way to get and edge...?

Also some on here use std type electrode plugs while others swear by the button end type (of course depends on the app)... With this thread about cryo application to a plug dont you thing the Nascar boys have long since worked on this...? The goal is a cleaner more effective burn no matter 2 or 4 stroke... If your to short sited to think a multi billion dollar racing industry cant offer something that your looking for then heck ask the Formula 1 guys...?

Also I will continue to post my thoughts no matter what because thats what a disscusion forum is about... So do you really want to silence and alternative right or wrong...?

No, I'm just so short sighted that I think not everything translates from one type of motor to another. With the same logic you could recommend turbine ignitors ... the aviation industry spends even more money than NASCAR or F1 does, so it would follow when using the same logic. Am I making any sense or does it just sound like gibberish to you?

[fyremanbil]

I was once asked to do a dyno comparison test on several different designs of spark plugs. One week, 55gal of VP, about 100lbs of nitrous. Not enough difference between the best and worst to be outside the dyno's margin of error. Copper, platinum, multiple or odd shaped electrodes, didn't make a damn bit of difference.
Of course, the magazine publishers had me "re-run" the test on their advertisers product until the error stacked in their favor, and called that the "official" result. You've seen these $10 spark plugs in your auto parts store.

[Bartman39]

Mark75H... No I sure dont think its "gibberish" and have no doubt you know alot of what your posting about... But we dont "fly" our boats at of anything much over sea level so dont think turbine ignitors would be of any value...? Thats the way you view what I had suggested it appears...? But 4 strokes and 2 strokes do share the same basic type of spark plug...

Once again just offering another source for some well thought out and tested technology that just might be adapted to some use in this topic... This is not to say I am right or wrong with my input but I respect your opinion and expertese but would just like the same respect k...

[lokinutz]

I wouldn't be surprised if dem der nascar boys cryo their toilet paper...less poke through, but...I digress.
Thanks for your guy's input. Sounds like no one on here has had first hand experience.
Bartman, are you saying NASCAR guys DO run cryo'd plugs, or do you think they may have tried it once back in the barn between moonshine runs? Your input IS appreciated. (As is everyone elses)

[John Richied]

Just in case… I’m going to start storing my NGK’s in the freezer.:D :D :D

[Bartman39]

Thanks lokinutz... Yea I think they try just about anything and everything for some extra ponies... They may still use moonshine to soak parts or people on weekends...? But to tell the truth they are now cutting edge tech with tons of wind tunnel testing and various other high tech depts... One of course is the engine dept and no doubt they have tried more special processes on every part of their engines than they have empty gallon jugs laying around... :D

Very sure F1 has done some testing with this too, considering their engines run up to 20K+ rpms you would think they into the very exoitc idea range for everything... Hope you find more info on this subject and glad to be of help any time...

[terry taylor]

HI. I think I read at one time that f1 and similar engines might run a surface gap plug. Myself with the extreme compression and small combustion chambers I could understand that. This is probably the coldest heat for that application thanks.

[86vintage]

Honestly buy a case of plugs and just replace then from time to time.
The performance increase would be extremely small if any.To spend the money for Cro-ed plugs it would be far better to replace the plugs and read the color and know that the engine is burning correctly.
Than to think you have a longer running plug and leave it in then have a cylinder drop and you keep running it then finding out that there was a problem and you just ran it into a worse state of siezure or destruction!
I like to look at my plugs every or every other time out. It's the training I grew up on running high compression racing motorcross bikes as a kid

Merry Christmas
james
86vintagehttp://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[MtDoraGary]

Back in 1956, my oil-burning Whizzer motorbike ran a LOT better on Hastings dual electrode spark plugs. Since that time, I have found no REAL difference between spark plug brands on anything I run, with a singular exception - Bosch Platinum plugs have performed poorly for me in every instance.
I wouldn't be surprised if dem der nascar boys cryo their toilet paper...less poke through, but...I digress.
Thanks for your guy's input. Sounds like no one on here has had first hand experience.
Bartman, are you saying NASCAR guys DO run cryo'd plugs, or do you think they may have tried it once back in the barn between moonshine runs? Your input IS appreciated. (As is everyone elses)

[pyro]

There is no reason that plugs would ever need to be cryoed unless they're being used in a top fuel dragster. There's no strength or durability issue that it could realistically improve, there's no issue with conductivity... (high voltages travel easy through most metals, they don't require large gauge wire or massive connections to make good contact) Snake oil.

dude, by the way, this thread is OLD...

[MtDoraGary]

Your point being....?
There is no reason that plugs would ever need to be cryoed unless they're being used in a top fuel dragster. There's no strength or durability issue that it could realistically improve, there's no issue with conductivity... (high voltages travel easy through most metals, they don't require large gauge wire or massive connections to make good contact) Snake oil.

dude, by the way, this thread is OLD...

[pyro]

My point was to start a stupid internet argument, without actually adding anything informative to the thread.

I'm sure you can relate. :rolleyes:

[MtDoraGary]

believe: yes
relate: no

My point was to start a stupid internet argument, without actually adding anything informative to the thread.

I'm sure you can relate. :rolleyes:

[Mark75H]

Back in 1956, my oil-burning Whizzer motorbike ran a LOT better on Hastings dual electrode spark plugs

I had a vehicle that was extremely picky about plugs once as well. My battery ignition Kawasaki S2 350 triple would run 2 or 3 times as far with platinum tipped Champion L-3G's as anything else. Even the -J suffix short ground electrode plugs that worked well in other 2 strokes didn't work as well as the platinum tipped G's did.

I've never heard of cryo'ing anything like a spark plug. "Aligning the molecules for better conductance" is BS. Conductivity is a physical characteristic of the particular metal alloy that can't be affected by cryo treatment.

[jphii]

I've never heard of cryo'ing anything like a spark plug. "Aligning the molecules for better conductance" is BS. Conductivity is a physical characteristic of the particular metal alloy that can't be affected by cryo treatment.

It's been going on for many years in the audiophile world. It works.

[Mark75H]

What are they cryo'ing?

[jphii]

Pretty much everything. Tubes, cables, etc....

[Mark75H]

Is this one of those things that they claim to be able to hear a difference but no machine can measure?

I can understand how altering the crystalline composition of metal in a tube could make a change, but I can't see where it would be better than a 50/50 chance of making any particular tube better vs worse.

[jphii]

Nope, distortion or lack thereof is measurable. I've tried to "hear" the difference for many years. Never could hear it.

Edit: OTOH, starting with higher purity conductors in a spark plug would probably make more difference that cryo treating.

[hastings]

Guys,

Go to www.nology.com (http://www.nology.com) for something different in plugs. Actually in ignition systems.

For conductivity in plug electrodes they state.

Material ------Thermal conductivity --------Electrical conductivity
------------------W/(m.K) -------------------MS/M

Silver --------------407 -----------------------66

Copper -------------384 -----------------------57

Gold ---------------310------------------------45

Platinum -----------70------------------------- 10

Nickel --------------59------------------------ 10

Steel ---------------58 -------------------------7

W/(m.k) = Energy per meter and Kelvin (1 kcal/(m.h.grd) = 1.163 W/(m.k)
MS/m = Mega Siemens per meter (1S m/mm2 = 1MS/m), (1s = 1 ohm)

Don't understand this last part that's for sure but the above numbers are pretty clear.

Their capacitor wires require the least resistance. They say there Silverstone plugs have 137% more spark power.

Anyone used their plugs and wires on an outboard?

Regards

Doug

[MtDoraGary]

What are they cryo'ing?pockets, billfolds, credit cards...:thumbsup:

[faztbullet]

I always wondered why that the old spark plugs I kept around for engine break-ins ran so good.. They were aged thru cycles of summer heat and winter cold in the 5 gallon bucket in the shed!!!:thumbsup:
I got a buddy that has liquid nitrogen, will get some in cooler and cryo my plugs and see if they run better tommorrow!!!:D

[Mark75H]

How can you tell if your spark plugs are "better"?

[pyro]

Cryoing is more than just cooling things off, it's about specific tempereatures, and specific rates of slow cooling and re-warming.

I would believe in the possiblity of a measurable difference when it comes to low voltage/high current applications like speaker terminals and such, but with the higher voltages and low currents of spark plugs, I would doubt it.

[John Richied]

Back when this post came out I put my NGK’s, props and ex-wife in the deep freeze…
The NGK’s and prop have NO noticeable difference. The Ex was a HUGE improvement. :D :D :D