Vintage OPC Racing

[Zonkercraft]

Are you an owner of a vintage OPC raceboat? Vee bottom, MOD VP, hydro, cat, semi-tunnel, tunnel boat. These are all types of OPC racing hulls. Do you have one? Does your neighbor, uncle/aunt/father/mother, friend have one in the backyard, garage, shed, barn, backyard?
DO YOU WANT TO RUN IT ON A RACE COURSE? GET IT OUT THERE, ON THE WATER, RUN IT?! SHOW OFF YOUR RESTORATION PROJECT!?
Now is the time! Show the pride of owning, & driving your outboard powered racing boat. Show the pride of restoring & RUNNING you vintage raceboat.
YOU ARE OUT THERE!
YOU WANT TO RUN YOUR BOAT!
YOU WANT TO SHOW THE PRIDE OF YOUR HISTORY!
YOU WANT TO RUN YOUR BOAT, ON AN APPROVED RACE COURSE, FOR ALL TO SEE!

NOW IS THE TIME TO STEP UP!

I'm putting together a list of boat owners, for a coordinated effort, to make this happen. I need your help, to make this happen. Make your voice heard!

Please send your contact information, & your boat information, to Vintageopcracing@aol.com

NOW IS THE TIME! LET'S DO IT!

THANKS!
Zonkercraft

[Zonkercraft]

LET'S DO THIS RIGHT!!

LET'S GET INVOLVED, & PUT THE FUN BACK INTO RACING!!!!

Vintageopcracing@aol.com

Zonkercraft

[T2x]

LET'S DO THIS RIGHT!!

LET'S GET INVOLVED, & PUT THE FUN BACK INTO RACING!!!!

Vintageopcracing@aol.com

Zonkercraft

Is that Jones ready to run???

T2x

[Mark Poole ModVP]

I have a couple of Allisons that I will take to shows and fun runs. A lot of people have such boats but not sure how many would be interested in racing them. Would this be full blown racing or show/swap meet and run the boats for the fun of it?

Mark

[jphii]

I thought the Jones was gone??? I know he hung a couple of motors on it just for grins.

[Zonkercraft]

I have a couple of Allisons that I will take to shows and fun runs. A lot of people have such boats but not sure how many would be interested in racing them. Would this be full blown racing or show/swap meet and run the boats for the fun of it?

Mark

This would be for fun, non-competitive runs around the course. Exhibitions runs, so as not to encourage "racing situations" This would be just to show off your boats. It would have to be safety inspected, and you would be required to have an approved helmet, and lifejacket. So tell your friends, bring your boats, and have fun!
Thanks for your interest Mark. Please forward your contact information to Vintageopcracing@aol.com and be sure to have your friends do so, as well. It's important that I have as much information as possible.

Hey Rich,
Just have some things to do with the steering & tie bars. I need to get the boat painted, but it's there. Hope you will join with us, as it would help out alot. Is the wing ready? Just curious as to how it's going.

Hey Joe,
The Jones is now owned by someone else, but it's still here till completed. It will move to the new owner, at sometime, but we are using it to run at Vinatge Events. Then it will continue to run at Vintage Events, even after it moves out of here.

PLEASE FORWARD YOUR CONTACT INFORMATION SO THAT I CAN GET A LIST TOGETHER, AND FORWARD IMPORTANT INFORMATION TO INTERESTED PEOPLE!

THANKS!!!

Zonkercraft

[JWTjr.]

that will be finished in Spring 08...one JP v-bottom (16' allison/Evinrude 140) and one S or U class tunnel (16' Seebold/Evinrude KR15M) that I would run and show at events like this.

JT (jtiger@cequentgroup.com)

[Zonkercraft]

that will be finished in Spring 08...one JP v-bottom (16' allison/Evinrude 140) and one S or U class tunnel (16' Seebold/Evinrude KR15M) that I would run and show at events like this.

JT (jtiger@cequentgroup.com)

That's great John! Glad to hear it! Could I ask you to forward your contact information to Vintageopcracing@aol.com. Also, I'd like to talk to you regarding the bassboat project. Email me directly about this.
Thanks again,

Zonkercraft

[kim cleckler]

Count Me In Maybe Run A Few I Got From You When I Get Them Finished , But Would Love To Do It. Keep Me Posted..

[Zonkercraft]

Hey Kim,
Thanks for joining in! Looking forward to seeing you. We are gaining momentium now, ...let's keep it going!
There's many more of you out there...c'mon, jump on the wagon! Let's hear from you!

Please forward your contact information to Vintageopcracing@aol.com

GET YOUR EFFORTS RECOGNIZED! SHOW YOUR BOAT OFF! LET YOUR HISTORY SHINE!!!!

Zonkercraft

[brichter]

I think you have me down already but definitely count me in!

I don't have a hull yet, still looking for one.

I need a 15'-16' tunnel and I would be running either my X115 or a KC13R.
Most likely the X115 at this point because I still need a couple of pistons for the KC13R.

Any leads on a hull or the KC pistons appreciated.

[Zonkercraft]

Hey Bill,
I have an idea to help you. I'll be in touch. Thanks for joining up!

Regarding email...yes I'm interested...I'll be in touch.

Zonkercraft

Vintageopcracing@aol.com

[Fulltilt]

Posting a picture of CT15.

[Hottrucks]

does a 1978 Action with a matching 2 liter count???
It's my winter project???
my skater is 20 how about that??

And I'm Guessing there won't be anything close to New England??

[T2x]

does a 1978 Action with a matching 2 liter count???
It's my winter project???
my skater is 20 how about that??

And I'm Guessing there won't be anything close to New England??

Actually there's an event each year on Lake Winnipesaukee...and every other year at Clayton, NY.

T2x

[Zonkercraft]

Why not...as long as it looks like a single seat MOD VP competition boat, you have a winner. Make sure you have a good safe rig, with all the safety gear. At this point, I'm not sure of the scheduled events in your area. Clayton, NY is not that far from you.
Thanks for your interest!

Please forward your contact information to Vintageopcracing@aol.com

Zonkercraft

[ssmith007]

Fulltilt, didn't I see that boat for sale in Ohio - Canton area a couple years ago? Good luck guys. Smitty

[afr]

zonkercraft
scott here
you never got back to me on this boat yet
is the 115 1996 merc with trim going to be ok
you said ok on the hull just not sure about the motor
and is anything going to be close to florida at anytime or in florida
dont forget its not cold here yet
lol
the boats is below this red one
ill move the seat to the middle and put a real seat in even

[Zonkercraft]

Hey Scott,
I don't see why your motor isn't OK. No, it's not a "racing motor" or one like it, but it moves your boat around. Your boat REPRESENTS part of the evolution of OPC Racing. Hydro's were there BEFORE the tunnel boats. So, in my opinion, it's very cool, and should participate in Vintage events. Please make sure that you have a SAFE seat ( placement of your choice ) KILL SWITCH, spring return foot throttle, approved racing life jacket, and helmet. You might want to spend some time on the APBA website, reviewing the safety requirements, and safety rules for running on a race course, drivers meeting, etc..
Thanks AGAIN, Scott

Zonkercraft

Vintageopcracing@aol.com

[afr]

great i quess you got my email already right
i got confused after looking at the rules john posted
gota put a foot throttle aah ok i quess i can try one

[Fulltilt]

That's were I picked it up.



Fulltilt, didn't I see that boat for sale in Ohio - Canton area a couple years ago? Good luck guys. Smitty

[Jeff_G]

There are any number of guys with Formula V boats. Formula V was an outgrowth of JP and EP. The class doesn't run in it's original configuration so these boats can't run otherwise.
Is there a prohibition on capsuled boats? Or boats converted to capsules?

[T2x]

There are any number of guys with Formula V boats. Formula V was an outgrowth of JP and EP. The class doesn't run in it's original configuration so these boats can't run otherwise.
Is there a prohibition on capsuled boats? Or boats converted to capsules?


I checked the rules an APBA Vintage boat is one that was constructed more than 20 years ago......... or is a replica or reproduction of same.

By this definition, early capsule boats are legal.

T2x

[jphii]

Are you sure? Zonkerboy told me that when we do the Velden we need to do it without the capsule.

[Hottrucks]

I checked the rules an APBA Vintage boat is one that was constructed more than 20 years ago......... or is a replica or reproduction of same.

T2x

Hey My skater is 20 years (1987) can we run that???

[Zonkercraft]

No, sorry...your skater was designed as an OFFSHORE type boat, to be run on an offshore type of course. It doesn't fall into any OPC vintage catagory.

Zonkercraft

[Zonkercraft]

Hey Joe,
We have a choice as to weather it would be wise to bring them back as capsuled boats, or non-capsuled. Cee made them both ways, and the look is very close.

There needs to be some clarification to the spec's regarding capsules. As written, the spec's applied to inboard boats. OPC was futher ahead in adapation of capsuled raceboats, than any other class. F1 was first to make it a requirement.

Zonkercraft

"Zonkerboy"....???? does this mean that I need to get tights & a cape? Does the bag over my head qualify as an identity-hiding mask???

[BarryStrawn]

I have attached a full copy of the Vintage bylaws for anyone who doesn't know their way around the APBA website.

[Fish]

cool idea. I love the vintage stuff, just not enough of it around anymore.

[Hottrucks]

hey are you tied up with these guys????

http://www.vintagehydroplanes.com/

these guys would be kick ASSSSSSSSSSS!! to see

[mike bryan]

do those rules say the actual hull you have was raced, or hulls just like the one you had were raced?

[Hottrucks]

now you got me statred check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJH24Y3_Y9c

[Fish]

now you got me statred check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJH24Y3_Y9c

"In breaking speed records, the females are often more deadly than the males.." LOL:D:D Cool vid Jeff, gotta love the jumps for the kneel down racers, those guys are sick!

[Hottrucks]

Yea It's snowing so hard I cann't get the Skater to the lake today Like I was hoping so I figure I need to look into building that hydro Ive been thinking about for a year or so......I fugure I can put the Action floor in and have it re rigged in a couple of weeks in the spring so I need to find a good garage project...and those old Hydro's give me WOOD

[afr]

Yea It's snowing so hard I cann't get the Skater to the lake today Like I was hoping so I figure I need to look into building that hydro Ive been thinking about for a year or so......I fugure I can put the Action floor in and have it re rigged in a couple of weeks in the spring so I need to find a good garage project...and those old Hydro's give me WOOD
not to put anyone down but man they are so easy to build
i was basicly done in three months but it took me a year to get the set up right or should i say close i still got to work on it a little
if i would have bought some plans from some of the other guys i think it would have been done a lot quicker

[Hottrucks]

is that the boat in your signature??
if you could send me a pic that would be kool
I'll be in the chat room around 6 or7 if you want to shoot the sheet about it I would love to pick your brain

[afr]

yea that's the one dude
you know i had a lot of engineers helping me get it fixed and set up
some real top name hydro racers the list is way to long
but my biggest help came from Ron hill john paramour ah man I'm going to leave some people out sorry if i forget you guys names
the whole Madison team the hopps team /lynch all the guys over on byuboyz some guys on scream and fly hydro racer my list is at the shop um
eldredge group tom cronk shoot the guy from lake estus john Sherlock
some guys out in Arizona way the list goes on
howie
all the family at apba
some of us go back to the off shore days i havent talked to in over 20 years found them again
anyway the little thing hauls --- now

[Zonkercraft]

do those rules say the actual hull you have was raced, or hulls just like the one you had were raced?

The spirit of this, is to run what represents past racing boats. If you have an original raceboat, ..GREAT! If you have your original raceboat,..EVEN BETTER! If you run a boat that LOOKS like a vintage raceboat,..Cool! RUN IT! That's part of the idea here...to represent the vintage raceboats of the past, in the spirit of competition, in exhibition runs on the race course.

AND HAVE FUN DOING IT!

Thanks,
Zonkercraft

[Jeff_G]

The thing about a boat like mine is it was originally an open boat built in 1983. It raced from 1983 until 2003. In 2000 or there abouts it was converted to a capsuled V bottom. A first for the class. There were capsule boats before but were built as a capsule boat, not added.
Personally I like the idea of any former race boat that can no longer run due to class rule changes etc. Some incentive to keeping these boats together as raced. If they have to sit for 20 years you lose a lot of boats and end up with a bunch of replicas, like what has happened in the JSS class. I would much rather see a boat that actually raced than a replica.

[brichter]

I don't think it matters if the hull has been raced before. I think if someone was to replicate an old Sid or Miles Master to display a BP or Twister that would certainly be in the spirit of what a vintage event would want to accomplish. Otherwise, you would have that void because most of the older wood OPC hulls are dust now.

[Jeff_G]

I would agree if that was the only choice, and in some cases it is. I would just rather see one with some history. What I was saying is how do we keep the boats recently retired together until they qualify? Once they stop racing they are usually scavenged and lost. By allowing any non current boat to participate it would encourage their participation.
Go to most car shows and they separate the cars by vintage, make, model, original, restored, replica etc. Lets do the same thing and not exclude anyone.

[Mark75H]

Antique, Vintage, Historic, Replica and Retired ... sounds good to me

[delawarerick]

Dave S has a great desilva runabout I will tell him of this thread. Rick

[Zonkercraft]

Yes, ALL should be included. Boats that are not run because of a classes no longer run, should qualify to run. Why not..after all, THEY have a history as well.
I LIKE IT!
Zonkercraft

[Mark75H]

Dave's DeSilva isn't an OPC boat, but if he still has the Eltro - that's a different story ... all you'd have to do is get him in approved saftey gear with safe rigging ... nearly impossible :rolleyes:

[Zonkercraft]

Dave's DeSilva isn't an OPC boat, but if he still has the Eltro - that's a different story ... all you'd have to do is get him in approved saftey gear with safe rigging ... nearly impossible :rolleyes:

I think the Desilva would qualify as an Sport production hull. Like SJ, etc.
Also, I use to get my butt kicked in the "R" class by a Desilva runabout, and a hydro, and a McCall, and a.......you get the idea. I never was competitive in that class.
As far as Dave's rigging ability, and choice of safety gear....I don't have a clue. He sure has some neat stuff though.
Zonkercraft

[afr]

Dave's DeSilva isn't an OPC boat, but if he still has the Eltro - that's a different story ... all you'd have to do is get him in approved saftey gear with safe rigging ... nearly impossible :rolleyes:


hey can you give me heads up what they need to pass the safety inspection
i guess all i need is a seat
i got a kill switch ill have to get a foot throttle i would rather use my side stick throttle if its OK strap my tank and battery down my life jacket helmet

[Zonkercraft]

hey can you give me heads up what they need to pass the safety inspection
i guess all i need is a seat
i got a kill switch ill have to get a foot throttle i would rather use my side stick throttle if its OK strap my tank and battery down my life jacket helmet

You'll have modify your hand throttle, so that it would return to idle when released. Springs required to do that would be real tuff on your hand & arm. Plus you'd have to add a stop, so that it wouldn't jump into neutral, when it returns to idle. Or run a sperate hand throttle, spring returned.
Just some thoughts.
Please be sure to secure your tank & battery, to assure against any movement.
Safety first!
Just my thoughts,
Zonkercraft

[Bruce Washburn]

I think the capsule question needs to be addressed. The vintage boats do not have capsules. There are several Inboard Hydros that run in the Vintage division that were built without capsules, then converted to capsule boats and converted back to non-capsule boats for Vintage.

Zonker I think that this may be something that we need to address with Tom at the national convention.

The concept is to have actual race boats that have been restored or replicas of actual raceboats (they should be painted and look like race boats). I agree with Jeff Griggs that the ideal is to have actual race boats with history. The stuff is still out there. Jimbo's Goat boats are still in one piece and being restored. A couple of twin tunnels have shown up. Sherlock is restoring the triple engine Jones. There have been several new replicas of vintage inboard hydros built. A couple have been built by Lauterbach who was the original builder of the design.

The other element is that the boats need to have the correct motors and equipment for the vintage of the hull or the class that they ran in. This is not a "run what you brung" affair. For example a 1965 PowerCat with V-6's would not be vintage and in the spirit of the rule.
Safety is the number one concern. There will be safety inspections. The boats need to be solid. If they are not safe to run they can still be displayed.
People are encouraged to run the boats and do fly-bys. Racing balls to the wall is not allowed. A couple bad accidents could end a great thing for all concerned.

This is great that we have so much interest in Vintage OPC equipment. I think there is still alot of equipment in old garages and warehouses all over the country that people would love to see. (We all know of one stock pile located in Central GA.)
:) Bring your Vintage OPC's to Chattahoochee on March 29 -30. We have OPC, SLT, and Vintage on the schedule. I will post more on this event in the next couple days. Remember to bring you ear plugs, I have heard that we will have several twin engine stackers show for some demo runs. This could be the start of something big and alot of fun for all of us.
More info to follow.

Bruce Washburn

[Zonkercraft]

Agreed Bruce, good points! I'll be in touch with you, regarding the agenda.
Thanks!
Zonkercraft

[T2x]

The other element is that the boats need to have the correct motors and equipment for the vintage of the hull or the class that they ran in. This is not a "run what you brung" affair. For example a 1965 PowerCat with V-6's would not be vintage and in the spirit of the rule.


That is not correct.

I went to Clayton with my Wing with S3000's and I was more than welcome to display and/or run on the course. In addition there was a Powercat Hydro with a v-6 that ran a number of times at the previous event.

I think they pay more attention to the inboards anyway...but you have all sorts of repowered versions there as well. For instance a 1937 racing runabout with a new Volkswagen engine and a Herring prop.

T2x

[Jeff_G]

There is also the Lauderbach with a reverse and neutral gearbox!!!

The capsule issue does need to be addressed

Using my boat again as an example. Again... I won two Nationals with it as an open boat. But I also one one with the same boat with a capsule. That would or should make the boat "historic" with or without. I can tell you that although my boat could be restored to original without a capsule I wouldn't. I hate grinding glass, kevlar and carbon fiber!

If there is enough interest maybe an OPC division of V&H that can address issues such as these? I just want to see any raced boat survive! Too many were cut up or allowed to rot.

[Bruce Washburn]

Rich, your boat is Vintage because it is a wing. I could and would make the arguement that it is not unsafe because it is a 20 ft wing and that because of the significant historic interest of the project it is a vintage and should be allowed to run. (We would love to see you do a couple of fly bys in Chattahoochee)Where the problems arise are when a boat that was designed for a 100 hp engine is repowered with a 300 Hp engine and is well beyond the the capability of the hull or the boat is not in the spirit of vintage. For example strapping a F1 motor on an old SJ boat. What is key is safety.

While we are on this subject I would also suggest that if anyone plans to run exhibition laps in vintage that you make sure the boat is set up go around a course and not just run top end in a straight line. The old racers know what I am talking about and would be more than happy to help anyone that is planning to run.

Some of the inboards got into a similar situation with putting bigger motors in the Jersey's than they were ever allowed to run in competition. Rules were later written to control hp in the skiffs.

Below are the rules. I think that your wing would fall under rule 2 C. Special interest hulls exemplifying the "spirit of Vintage"

Rule 8 refers to overpowered engines

Rule 9 was a special rule put in for the Jersey's in the interest of safety.

It is also interesting to note that there is a provision for dicontinued classes in the rules. Formula Vee. We will try to address the capsule issue at the national meeting.


ARTICLE IV: GENERAL RULES
1. The Vintage and Historic Division is open to all classes of racing boats from Outboards through Unlimiteds.
2. A Vintage hull shall be built prior to 1986 and must have been a racing hull at one time in its history. Exceptions to this rule would be:
A. Complete reproductions or replicas
B. Boats from discontinued classes
C. Special interest hulls exemplifying the “spirit of Vintage”.
3. A Historic hull shall be built prior to 1941. Replicas or reproductions of the pre-war period shall be deemed Vintage.
4. All boats participating in an APBA sanctioned regatta must be safety inspected, and will comply with Article V Safety Rules, outlined for the
Vintage and Historic Racing Division. Boats and/or drivers found in non-compliance with these by-laws will not be allowed to participate in in-water
activities.
5. All Vintage and Historic Racing boats are encouraged to carry the APBA’s Vintage Logo. It should be placed before the racing number in order to
identify the hull as a Vintage Racing Craft and eliminate any confusion with current racing boats that may hold the same registration number.
6. A Vintage and Historic craft may be owned by either an individual, partnership or a corporation, provided that such individual, partnership
or corporation shall be a member of APBA Vintage and Historic Racing Division. In the event, however, that a V& H race boat is owned by a
partnership or corporation, the partnership or corporation must designate an individual who is a member of the Vintage & Historic Racing Division as
the representative of such partnership or corporation.
7. The Vintage & Historic boat owner, or their representative, shall show proof of participant membership to the Event Referee or representative
upon demand.
8. Hull modifi cations: All modifi cations to V & H hulls must be made in the “spirit of Vintage”. Hull modifi cations are subject to review by the
V & H Chairman and Vice Chairman and if deemed not in the “spirit of Vintage”, the hull will be designated for static display only. Examples of
modifi cations not in the “spirit of Vintage” include, but are not limited to, overpowered engines, technological advances not period to the hull, enclosed
cockpits, safety cells, cages, driver’s restraints, etc.
9. Vintage or replica Skiffs using any motor other than a 283 must run with a restrictor plate. Skiff motors must not exceed 350 ci. Hydraulic trim
tabs and side exhaust are no longer allowed.
10. Minimum age for in-water participants:
A. The minimum age for drivers or riders to participate in an exhibition run is 16 years old.

[afr]

hey Bruce i also got this boat
but no power yet
diminco something like that spelling
flybys is all i want I'm still in training any how

[warrior74z]

I remember a Dimarco. Not sure about the spelling but sounds like Demarco or Dimarco. Some were running drags in the mid 80's.

[Bruce Washburn]

AFR Maybe a Demarco inboard drag or ski Hydro?

some one aksed about inspections before. The some of the inspection guidelines are posted below. Many of these do not apply to the Outboards.
This may be of help\.


Inspection Criteria:

Helmets – Must be current racing type and bright orange/red/yellow in color

Life Jackets – Must be racing type construction

Drivers Suit (And all passengers) – Long sleeves, long pants and close toed shoes

Hull Condition – Acceptable condition of frames, stringers, seams, floatation, etc.

Prop Shaft Collar – Or setup to prevent shaft from moving rearward

Restrictor Plate Present – Jersey Speed Skiff only. 0.125” minimum restriction

Kill Switch – Wired and connected to life jacket

Steering – Acceptable condition of cables, pulleys and chain

Safety wired turnbuckle

Dash connection (nuts, bolts, etc.)

Rudder and Bracket – Acceptable condition with minimal play in rudder post

Skid Fin – Acceptable condition with proper structural mounting

Shaft Connections – Acceptable condition of intermediate/rear strut and shaft log

Lock nuts, cotter pins, etc.

Proper mounting, secure coupling/gear box attachment and bearings

Lifting Slings – Date tagged and load rated every 3 years. Secure lifting points

Motor Mounts – Acceptable structural integrity

Secondary throttle return spring - Present

Fuel Tank – Proper mounting and venting

Fuel Lines – Secured and safe. Mounted to hull

Passed or
Rejected-Reason___________________________________

[Hottrucks]

sweet old v drive hydro I want one in WOOD

[afr]

bruce ill run it up by you to look at
or if you get in punta gorda call me
what is the race history of the demarco

[BarryStrawn]

It is also interesting to note that there is a provision for dicontinued classes in the rules.


I have also been wondering about the purpose of that exception. Taken at face value, it appears to include any Mod-VP or Formula 1. The only reason I can see for an exception is to include 1986 and newer stuff that has no place to participate. So that must have been the intent and capsules would have to be dealt with. I suppose someone could argue that a Formula 1 or Mod-VP is still legal in Mod-U so...

[Bruce Washburn]

As much as I would love to see a Wing with twin champ motor's run, It does violate many of the spirit of Vintages intent. Just because I think it may be one of the coolest boats on the planet and would love to see it run does not mean that mean that it would be a legal vintage boat under the guidelines. Part of this relates to safety and the other relates to spirit of what is vintage.

The dicontinued Class rule: There is still a restriction on no-capsules under the Vintage guidelines. I will try to find out more about this. But a pre 1986
V-8 F1 boat with out a capsule would be a vintage as would early pre 1986 MOD- VP's without capsules. If it is a capsule F1 boat bring it and run MOD U. Some other Cool vintage boats would be some of the old twin engine v-bottoms. has anyone talked with Chuck Rutherford in TN. The last I Heard he still had a floatilla of boats including the twin Allisons and a 16 with a t-2. It would be great to see that equipment again.

[Zonkercraft]

With the GROWING interest in Vintage participation, I would like to believe that there is some room to adjust the requirements for particpants running OPC boats. Afterall, there was so many progressive improvements to OPC boats, in a very short time frame, that it might be prudent to take a look at requirements, as they pertain to OPC boats.
When the Vintage rules were written, they were not particular to OPC specific participation. They were, for the most part, general in their scope.
With the fast paced developement within the OPC division, it might be best for the V & H group to take another look at OPC specific requirements. It might be the best choice to PROMOTE GROWTH within the division.
Many of the Vintage boats have been destroyed, and lost to history. Many of the OPC motors are gone.
Why not take PROGRESSIVE steps, to help particpants enjoy the equipment that is left to us?
Just my thoughts
Zonkercraft

[Hottrucks]

Not sure how this would work but what about a
Vintage Stock class and a Vintage Mod Class the mod guys could be compared by weight and HP which could make for a great final with an old stocker vs a Mod..
As you said most of this is exibition I know they do that with Vintage race cars up here and behind the seens the winner is already picked...but if you think they don't get out there and put on a show you'd be mistaken... by drawing straws for winning it gives everbody equal attention and gets the crowds attention and yea the blow stuff up and rub sometimes

[Bruce Washburn]

Jeff Vintage is still in the gorwth stages and I am sure that they want to encourage growth. We all want to see growth. The rules were originally put together with inboards in mind and as we can get some more of the Outboards on the water I am sure that the rules can be tweaked.

Hot trucks, Any vintage boat from whatever class it ran is legal. At most of the events the boats are divided into groups of similar performance and size. For example an EP boat would not be running the same time as a 7 Liter Hydro.
Since this is NOT racing, the boats can be run together in groups of similar eprformance and types.

[Zonkercraft]

Thank you Bruce! Yes, we ALL wish to see growth in participation. People getting out an enjoying the event is what we are ALL after. We can work together, for assuring the growth of the sport. EVERYBODY WINS!!! Let's NOT look at restricting participation, let's look at HELPING people participate.
I KNOW THAT IT CAN BE DONE!
Hottruck, yes the vintage race cars do get out there and run hard. But, please remember, they can can find parts, and have the funding to support thier efforts. I can't afford to bang my boat, have it SINK, or destroyed...besides busting my old neck. The safety equipment of the old cars isn't much different than current racing cars,...and they don't sink.
SAFETY, and having FUN are the key points with Vintage boats, not seeing how fast they can go. Showing them running, is the frosting on the cake.
EVERYBODY WINS!!!

Just my thoughts
Zonkercraft

[brichter]

Perhaps this thread would bemore appropriately named Vintage OPC "exhibition" as it would not be truly racing, and the group would not want to discourage participants with inoperative equipment (i.e. static displays or works in progress) from participation in the event.

[Hottrucks]

Hot trucks, Any vintage boat from whatever class it ran is legal. At most of the events the boats are divided into groups of similar performance and size. For example an EP boat would not be running the same time as a 7 Liter Hydro.
Since this is NOT racing, the boats can be run together in groups of similar eprformance and types.
The problem I'm going to have is taking my Action ( project boat anyway) and turning into a center steer it will take the rest of the year enjoyment out of it for cruzing and using it as a work boat ( skiing, tubing pulling the kids ect.) I don't think the other half will enjoy sitting in the back seat ( read as not going to happen). Will there be a class for me to run if I stay with traditional steering??


Hottruck, yes the vintage race cars do get out there and run hard. But, please remember, they can can find parts, and have the funding to support thier efforts. I can't afford to bang my boat, have it SINK, or destroyed...besides busting my old neck. The safety equipment of the old cars isn't much different than current racing cars,...and they don't sink.
SAFETY, and having FUN are the key points with Vintage boats, not seeing how fast they can go. Showing them running, is the frosting on the cake.
EVERYBODY WINS!!!

Just my thoughts
Zonkercraft

let me address these as they come..

have you tried to find part far an old flat head may as well be a boat for what they cost....if you can find them
as far a banging they tend to keep it close but away from the paint it's not like they can run to Napa and buy a new panel ..kind of like loosing a wood plank or hitting something in the water it does happen men will be men!!
as far as funding If I could find a way to get funding for vintage racing I would consider doing it myself
safety equipment in these cars is there just like boats to protect the driver from the JUST INCASE situation and is ussually just bolt in stuff

I hope I'm not offending anyone because that's not my intendtion just trying to find a way to get more regular Joe's out there to premote the Vintage EQUIPMENT....not just the race stuff. I'm sure that there are alot of COPY's of race hulls that guy's use to tear up lakes on a regular basis but don't want to make them race boats.....but still would get together to have some fun ...... I think S&F has enough gatherings of NON race boats that someday all we will have left is Hypo boats and the race stuff will be far between.. I hope you understand what I said??
in another words life lines, battery tie downs,foot throttles, and safety gear is pretty common among Most performance boats

Jeff

[T2x]

Perhaps this thread would bemore appropriately named Vintage OPC "exhibition" as it would not be truly racing, and the group would not want to discourage participants with inoperative equipment (i.e. static displays or works in progress) from participation in the event.

And that's where I come back into this discussion.

Let's face it a 40 year old boat has no business racing at full throttle even with vintage engines. I watched Ken Kitson and Bob Valachovic spend hours and hours and ridiculous money at two events ( Clayton and Lake George 4 years ago)trying to get his original "vintage" inlines to start, only to leave without any success and travel 1000 miles home both times. I also agree that our Wing is for demo runs only and will never be opened up to full throttle. While I can certainly read the rules and acknowledge them, a lot of the old engines (1950 and before) cannot be repaired and made ready to run (Hence the VW motor in the old RR).... As years go by these engines become more and more cranky and parts more unobtainable. So, if you can find a T2x in running condition God Bless you. If you can find another one to race against, have at it.... but if you can't..........?

T2x

[Bruce Washburn]

Hottrucks: I think that there was a thread that dealt with the FamilyJ class . I don't know exactly what you have but it may fit into Family J.
Bruce

[Jeff_G]

The way things are now from my perspective is this.

If you have a vintage pleasure boat there are events like Mt. Dora that welcome you with open arms.

If you have a vintage, read non-capsule, over 20 year old boat, that either was a race boat or is a replica of one, then the V&H Division of APBA is for you.

The only problem I have is the boats less than 20 years old that were race boats don't really have anywhere to go. Yes they can do Mt. Dora but they are being excluded from the group they really belong with, other race boats. What can we do for these guys? I would love to see capsuled and non-capsuled SST 140's, Mod VP, Mod U etc. run under a Vintage program.

Rich, maybe the right guy wasn't working on the motor to get them to start and run?

Bruce, there is a problem with the Formula V class. The OPC Commission changed the rules that made boats like mine and most of the Southern boats illegal. But the class was not discontinued, there is still a Formula V class. So under section 2,b I am still not eligible. I have written to Mike W. to change the name of the class as it isn't close to the original intent. If they wanted a new class they should have a new name. Damn I should have copyrighted the name. Hey I still can! Maybe......

[Bruce Washburn]

Jeff, I saw several boats that looked like yours that ran in Formula V at the nationals. 15 Allisons with 150 xs. i am not sure if this was a National class or just the MN group. Is your boat illegal to run in this class???

[Hottrucks]

thanx Bruce I and rebuilding an 1978 Action Marine with a 2 liter on it and I was going to set it up so the other half could get more wheel time and build her confidence up ( she drives the Skater but isn't in that comfort zone yet) so I figured it would be a good set of training wheels.... the boat will be set up with both hand and foot throttles and a L&S jackplate.. will a 19 pitch and motor sunk she can run it safely and pull the kids with a quick prop change and raising the motor and ditching the back seat she or I can let it fly a little...best part is we can use it after work most any day with out going broke feeding the twins on the Skater and I have a bunch of parts for it....
I'll have to look into the family J class I guess

Jeff

[Bruce Washburn]

The family J class was inlines or V-4.
I also recall the 16 ft actions in JP. There were several that kicked ass.

[Hottrucks]

The family J class was inlines or V-4.
I also recall the 16 ft actions in JP. There were several that kicked ass.


I do have an old I 6 ( 1968 110) that was worked by Merc that has been in a barn for at least 20 years..it was off Dad's old ski boat, It was a 14 foot MFG hull and alittle over powered for the hull design.. it hangs in the barn looking for the right project to hang it on????? Maybe a coat of wax and a good going thru and I could hang it on the Action....I did pick up a new mid with trim so it will have alot better use with that..the old arm strong trim for shallow water was a bear!!!

If I went to the JP class does it require center steer???
thanx again I'm learning a ton here....
the other half and I love these event we meet tons of great people but it would be more fun to participate or at least help out....Bruce have you ever worked with the Vintage race guys from Lake Winnipawskaki ( spelling) here in NH ther is a guy in Wolfbore that has a beauty of an old Hydro, I saw it sitting on the side of the road in front of his shop I stop to oggle it and no one was around.......

[Powercat]

John:
Is there an APBA Vintage class that a cat/tunnel/hydro open cockpit boat with twin inline 6 cylinder engines from the correct era could run in? Seems
like most of the boats that I consider classics from the 50's and 60's were
not run in APBA events but were run in what the APBA of that era considered as "outlaw" races. The multi engined era of APBA/OPC was very short lived
but if I understand the "spirit" of what Vintage & Historic is about, it would seem that these, and those "hot rods" using modern power could be part of the event, assuming they can meet the safety requirements. After all its not "real" racing", its about having fun with and bringing back to life
the great boats of the past. I understand the need for safety, and meeting the requirements for insurance coverage that any APBA event entails, but
if that means its to be just another elite "polished brass & mahogany" outing then its going to exclude many potential participants.
I have the greatest admiration for folks as yourself that are bringing back these great examples of boat racing history, and certainly the APBA class
boats that currently participate are worthy of any performance boat lovers enthusiasm. But it sounds like from the discussion here that a lot of people would like to see the "Outlaws" and "Hot Rods" included in the show.
Danny Leger



The above may be true but does not mean it's correct,, a boat running in an APBA Vintage and Historic Event must be powered by a period correct engine or engines,, examples: A 280 Hydro cannot run exhibition runs powered with a 350 Chevy, a Switzer Wing cannot run exhibition runs powered by V6 outboard engines.
John Sherlock
Region 5 V&H Rep. / V&H Inspector / V&H Outboard Chairman

[Hottrucks]

Nice choice of words " HOT RODS"

[Mark75H]

Danny there were APBA and NOA classes for those rigs ... modern power "hot rods" are modern power hot rods

If you want to have events where modern powered V-6 and twin V-6's are run on Powercats, Stylecrafts and Magnolias, there is nothing stopping you, but they will not be APBA Vintage events.

Just like Jersey Speed Skiffs with big blocks, long stroke V-8's etc, they don't conform and are neither safe nor "historic"

Nothing sets a price limit, upper or lower on APBA Vintage ... but that doesn't mean it should be a free for all.

I see plenty of 1960's inline 6 Mercs at AOMC meets and on eBay ... often going for next to nothing; historic boats on the other hand are tricky to come by.

There may be a group of people who would like to see the over powered rigs, but running them at insured events presents a problem.

[Mark75H]

Rich, if you offered to trade Dustin' 's current power even up for Twisters ... you'd probably come out on the short end of the deal, but I'm sure you could find a pair before you found another Wing.

[brichter]

And that's where I come back into this discussion.

Let's face it a 40 year old boat has no business racing at full throttle even with vintage engines. I watched Ken Kitson and Bob Valachovic spend hours and hours and ridiculous money at two events ( Clayton and Lake George 4 years ago)trying to get his original "vintage" inlines to start, only to leave without any success and travel 1000 miles home both times. I also agree that our Wing is for demo runs only and will never be opened up to full throttle. While I can certainly read the rules and acknowledge them, a lot of the old engines (1950 and before) cannot be repaired and made ready to run (Hence the VW motor in the old RR).... As years go by these engines become more and more cranky and parts more unobtainable. So, if you can find a T2x in running condition God Bless you. If you can find another one to race against, have at it.... but if you can't..........?

T2x
I could never get those inline 6s to start either with out a squirt bottle of gas.......
.........But if you can't get 'em going you still have a static display thats sure to draw attention.

The parts issue is a biggie, I am running 90-100 hp service pistons in my X115 and will probably switch to the low compression 90-100 heads for running. I don't think it will matter any to spectators, just make it more reliable and safe. Most OMCs had pretty good interchangeablity............. I don't know what component substitutions may be applicable to a T2X to get a dead one running on the water but they should be considered if the only cost is performance.

[afr]

I'm just stepin out
john and Bruce
ill go Thur you guys after the DI marco hydro is ready
i am a licenced driver with apba as you know
but have not participated in any event thus far ( rookie )
so i got the insurance already and can buy my drivers card at the event
but i have a special event and opc so i might not need to get another one for vintage having the special event licence
anyways i have a long way to go before it goes back in the water anyhow
would i have to put the same motor back in or just a 454

[Jeff_G]

Bruce, the commission changed the rules to STOCK motors, no cutting, porting etc. Not that anyone would know as the motors are so old it would be easy to cheat.
The lower unit rules were also changed to stock type with no internal mods and fully shiftable and operational, except mods that help a few... I won't go there.

Even my cowl would be illegal under the new rules!

What they did was make all of the boats we ran in the South illegal. So no Bruce, Steve, Jose, myself, Ernie etc. have no where to race.
How they can take a mod class and return it to a stock class with 30 year old motors is beyond me. All it does is limit the participants and is against the spirit of the rule that established the class. But hey I no longer race so I have no bitch.

HOTTRUCKS;
JP and Family J ran the inline 6 1500 and 150XS motors. The real early motors were the 1350 Merc. Later the class allowed the 140 OMC to run. About 1978 or 1979 if I remember.
The class used the 16 Action and the 15 Allisons predominately. A few early 17 Actions showed and ran with the 1350 and 1500 usually at backyard events like Carribean Club and other Key's races. From 1973 on the APBA guys used the 150's, so for your boat a 110 would not be really correct and underpowered.

[T2x]

Rich, if you offered to trade Dustin' 's current power even up for Twisters ... you'd probably come out on the short end of the deal, but I'm sure you could find a pair before you found another Wing.


In truth the last engines to run on wings in competition were stacker BP's so even T-1's would not be "correct". Further, nothing more than Merc 1000's ran on the wooden versions with Quincy stacks....so...what is the "proper" engine for a given hull?

To the point....I watched a 50's era Unlimited hydro run at Clayton about 8 years ago (An APBA Vintage event). It had tremendous power but limited acceleration below 30 mph.......and a horrendous turning radius...in short the driver couldn't make the thing stay on the course and look like anything but a loud water fountain...so... He went way out into the main water way towards the St Lawrence Seaway...... took the boat up to speed about a mile and a half away...... ran down into Clayton Bay on the far side and disappeared from sight for about 15 seconds into the inner harbor.............(I thought he had stopped).... suddenly he reappeared with a high rate of speed, noise and spray screaming through THE SPECTATOR FLEET and onto the main straightaway of the little 1/3 mile race course.....before going through the opposite SPECTATOR FLEET and exiting stage right.....

Bottom line.... you have the "Chrysler Crew" (blown 7 liter Keith Black....1000 HP), which is smaller than my wing, behaving very nicely in demonstration runs with other vintage hydros....etc. My hull could have run at Clayton as long as I didn't "race" against anyone or get ridiculous with it.

While I agree that Dust'n the Wind should not "compete" in a speed race...it certainly should...and I believe can ( it is an APBA registered boat) ....make a few passes at the average V&H event without voiding any insurance coverage....as long as I observe all of the Safety rules and it passes a fitness/safety inspection. This follows a long tradition of "exhibition runs" ( of boats that were'nt exactly a class fit) that I have seen at APBA events over the past 50 years. Certainly a Wing is a piece of history regardless of power...... and the average guy...me included... would love to see it run.

Just my .02

T2x

[Hottrucks]

Thanx Jeff......my old 110 would be "underpowered " IF it where a true 110 but according to dad it was one of Merc's proto types of the what they hoped to be there 150??? ( it maybe a 150ish in a 110 cowl) truth or legend I don't know for sure....reguardless with the 110 I could go and run as opposed to hanging the 1978 2 liter V6 150 on it ...Am I correct thnking that??? both boat and motor would be from the same year with the 150 on it?? so I'm not sure why I couldn't run this combo.......

However I'm in contact with a guy ( somewhat local) who races vintage Hydros and he is trying to sell his wifes old 2 liter boat so with any luck I could go that route....

See what you started now!!! My other half is going to kill you!!!!

[largecar91]

I Thought There Were Some Wings Running With T1's?? There Were Some Running 135's. Anyway I Know My Twin T2x's Would Not Be Correct On A 69/70 Hull. My motors would be no more legal than Rich's.

[Hottrucks]

hey guys got room for this

told you you started something

<CENTER></CENTER>

[afr]

hey guys got room for this

told you you started something


<CENTER></CENTER>
i got room ill race ya
lol

[Jeff_G]

Hottrucks, your boat would probably fit the mold of a V Production which was a stock class running the 2 liter before they decided to change it to Mod VP.
So it would be period correct with the 2 liter. The only thing I don't remember was the hull lengths but I am thinking 17-18'.

Rich, I would love to see the wing in any form. I would think most here would, but it would still not be period correct. I would rather see it with stacks. Personally I wouldn't stop anyone with any vintage boat from running.

[Old fiberglass]

Yes, they raced wings with T1's........got a picture of mine with a pair on it.

[Hottrucks]

Hey Jeff does the S before the # signify which class it came from?? I'm looking into year of build and more info on engine ... I don't know if I'm going to make the lenght either???

But I'm lookiing!!! the other half likes the boat ( pic) but HATES the color....red....I have issues with driving red things they always seem to try and kill me......

[Mark75H]

Hey Jeff does the S before the # signify which class it came from?? I'm looking into year of build and more info on engine ... I don't know if I'm going to make the lenght either???

S = formerly known as 145ci, 2000cc to 2300cc now 2.5 Litre Stock


2.5 Litre Stock
The hulls have to be a minimum of 13' long and weigh a minimum of 975 lbs. Engines approved are the Ford Pinto 2000cc & 2300cc. Motor alterations are not permitted except the ones specified in the rules. This class is promoted for the purpose of establishing a low cost stock class engine for racing.

I'm sure if you emailed the current 2.5 class rep with all you know about the boat, he could fill you in

[KG4]

What about my Avenger?It was never raced but it looks cool and i get a lot of interest and compliments whenever i go for a ride.

[Jeff_G]

Hottrucks, your boat was know as a 145 CI Hydro class in the 70's and 80's, they primarily used the old Ford Falcon then the Ford Pinto engines. In the later 80's the Inboarders renamed their classes by liter designations. Your S boat then became 2.5 Liter Stock Hydro. The E class originally was a 280 Hydro became a 5 liter hydro etc.
Most of the 145's were 14 1/2 to 16'. Set up right they ran in the low to mid 90's top end.

[afr]

jeff /mark75/ bruce /john
just one quick question
can i and is it ok to run a stock 454 v- drive power plant in my Di Marco hydro and be able to give the crown a fly by
or due i have to build the aries head blower motor

[Hottrucks]

Hottrucks, your boat was know as a 145 CI Hydro class in the 70's and 80's, they primarily used the old Ford Falcon then the Ford Pinto engines. In the later 80's the Inboarders renamed their classes by liter designations. Your S boat then became 2.5 Liter Stock Hydro. The E class originally was a 280 Hydro became a 5 liter hydro etc.
Most of the 145's were 14 1/2 to 16'. Set up right they ran in the low to mid 90's top end.

Looks like you hit it right, 2 liter pinto engine 15 1/2' Long The last owner said it's a Ron Jones Hull top speed around 90 mph

Just courious what should I expect to pay for some thing like this he say's the motor was rebuilt a couple years ago but it has very low hours on it and it has 3 different props......and hull is in need of cosmetic work...but is solid...keep in mind this was his wifes boat ( but maybe he didn't like her LMAO) the trailer doesn't look like anything fancy ( I would change it) ..... You guys dragged me into this I just don't want to get robbed starting out..
thanx
Jeff

[Bruce Washburn]

Hottrucks,
S-270 would be a perfect vintage boat. There is a vintage Hydro site that could give you some good information on inboard hydros. restored and in pristine condition they go for some big bucks. alot of the boats have been completly reskinned and look like new. I have seen other in similar condition to the one in the picture . It looks like every thing is there. If the boat is sound with a little work it should be ready to run.

[Hottrucks]

any idea what the site name is....
the boat is about an hour and a half from me the Guy isn't in any rush to sell so I'm keeping my options open but he seems to think the boat may be a bit small for my Butt I told him I would get together with him and try it on..this will give me a better idea if I'm going to fit and what it needs...... I just don't want to spend $$ on something that is going to sit in the yard..I'm a Use it or Lose it guy...not one of those look what I have type... If I cannt run it with out it being a pain in the ........ then no use having it....I have enough Projects!! I just want something fun to drive..

thanx
Jeff

[Jeff_G]

Just keep in mind they are all out race boats. You will need a safety boat with you when you run. There is no gearbox, forward only. They are relatively easy to maintain the only problem is possible rot. But if there is none now and you keep it inside you should have no problem.
As a boat just to run occasionally, well OK. If you want to get involved with the Vintage Inboard guys and all that goes with it then go ahead. The Inboard guys usually come from a long line of racing, they raced, their dads raced... but they are always welcoming to newcomers.
I would talk to as many guys as you can before you make your mind up. Get involved and look at it as a long term deal.

[Hottrucks]

Thanx Jeff,
I keep all my stuff Under cover..I find it keeps them dry and after a day at the lake you know there wet..by leaving them under cover they are open to dry....I also understand the race boat direct drive thing, the Jersey Skiff was like that until a couple years ago when we installed the trans. It make it a few mph slower but put the drivablity into it....with something like this I would consider a dry clutch, small amount of weight and could make it hand operated..this will give it a chance to warm up and me to get in.....one of the problem with where I live is knowledgeable people to work with in this area. The people who are into it are in a differnt cla$$ and tend to be out of touch with me.... maybe If they see me buzzing around the lake it will open new doors.It was amazing how when the Skater showed up on the lake how they reacted, but soon it was more about getting updated power or going half way across the country to stay in the hilton.....for a weekend race. I'm more of a show up sleep in my truck kind of guy, and thats OK with me. Yet funny how alot of there stuff/toys come to me when it's maintance or repair time????? I like running them with old junk and left over parts but I love kicking ther ass with it better!!

[afr]

jeff /mark75/ bruce /john
just one quick question
can i and is it ok to run a stock 454 v- drive power plant in my Di Marco hydro and be able to give the crown a fly by
or due i have to build the aries head blower motor
hello
dont skipp me
i know i said i was out but i still need a answer on what motor i can or can not run in vintage

[afr]

so the di marco only went straight
then its out also
ok
thanks john
just tryint to add to the boat count in anyway i can

[Hottrucks]

well got my first bad taste..Haven't even seen the boat yet but guy that has it now was a dick on the phone!!!!!

WHY!!

[afr]

what that little hydro you posted pictures of

[Hottrucks]

post #87
http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=139696&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1197068866 (http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=139696&d=1197068866)

[T2x]

One thing that always gets me is everytime we focus on resurrecting old OPC boats........ somebody goes and buys an inboard.....:p :p :p

T2x

[Hottrucks]

One thing that always gets me is everytime we focus on resurrecting old OPC boats........ somebody goes and buys an inboard.....:p :p :p

T2x

Leave me alone!!! I'm trolling......to see what my options are in my area....I'm still looking...it a long winter....................lmao

[T2x]

We will be discussing at our national meeting a ‘misc. group’ of V&H racing hulls which is going to be added to our by-laws. The real thing we need to have happen is to revise our by-laws to include all of the basic configurations we want to allow. I’m sure even in the outlaw races there were rules and restrictions way back when. These need to be resurrected and interpreted into our current by-laws. We can be specific where we need to be specific (just like not allowing trim tabs and side exhausts for vintage Jersey Skiff’s)….but then we can be general where we need to attract groups of OPC folks…..all while keeping safety and preserving racing history in the forefront.

John:

I think we need to differentiate between Vintage Racing hulls, Vintage Flyby hulls, and Vintage static display hulls. If we are actually contemplating racing then I would agree we should have period and class correct power.

T2x

[MN4V]

So is it possible to have an OPC Division in Vintage. No Inboarders involved with our rules!


Mark

[afr]

So is it possible to have an OPC Division in Vintage. No Inboarders involved with our rules!


Mark
i hope so

[Bruce Washburn]

Mark,
My suggestion would be to tweak the rules or add rules under the vintage category that would apply to Outboards in general which would include OPC,MOD, Stock etc. They already have a good frame work for Vintage and I doubt that an OPC only Vintage division would have enough initial support on a national basis to make it work. Zonker, myself and few others will talk with the Vintage guys at the national meeting and see what we can come up with to make it work for everyone. There has been some very good feedback on this thread that has been very helpful. Vintage is a growing Category in APBA and the powers that be want to see it continue to grow.

Bruce

[T2x]

Vintage racing hulls we have and they are explained. Vintage Static display hulls we have and are explained. I have no idea what a Vintage Flyby hull is. We are NOT contemplating racing.

John:

When I was talking to some of the 7 liter/Grand Prix guys, they spoke about vintage events that they had attended on full size courses, where they actually raced ...and in one case had the transom rip out of a Staudacher at full speed. Have these events been toned down....or is this some other form of Vintage?

T2x

[T2x]

Mark,
My suggestion would be to tweak the rules or add rules under the vintage category that would apply to Outboards in general which would include OPC,MOD, Stock etc. They already have a good frame work for Vintage and I doubt that an OPC only Vintage division would have enough initial support on a national basis to make it work. Zonker, myself and few others will talk with the Vintage guys at the national meeting and see what we can come up with to make it work for everyone. There has been some very good feedback on this thread that has been very helpful. Vintage is a growing Category in APBA and the powers that be want to see it continue to grow.

Bruce

A dream event would have a bunch of Powercats, Glastrons, Norris crafts, flat and early vee Allisons, early flat deck Checkmates, Raveaus, Critchfields, Eltros, Switzers, and the like in the "early" division, and Molinaris' Shultz's, Kober Cats, Allison tunnels, Checkmate tunnels, Baja tunnels, Goat boats, Twister Crafts, Kitsons, Zonkers, and the like in the "later" division.

That would bring tears to all of our eyes.......... except mine since I don't have a heart.:D

T2x

[T2x]

Rich,

I know the exact incident you are talking about...... Or maybe you are
referring to the outlaw vintage racing out west. Either way.....your facts are
incorrect. I assure you there is no racing in APBA V&H.

Rich, was this Jeff Buckley's 'Executif' GP......2005
Wolfeboro.....if so that is 3rd hand info....;)

Thank you Rich, this is how we move forward,
John

John:

You know where my heart is.

In fact Jeff Buckley was part of the story, another boat, "The Irishman", which my ex partner, Don Lostumbo, won the National Championship in on two occasions back in the 70's when it was "The Hooker", was also touted as having been "Raced" a couple of years ago.

If you need my help....... I'm always here for ya.

By the way, I found another Powercat 15C and I am making plans to ship it home......... Got any inlines I might use?:D :D :D

T2x

[Powercat]

Speaking of "Outlaw" events and Power Cats....
I am going to the Dick's Marine Regatta this
year on the 13th of January at Saguaro Lake
outside Phoenix. Will be getting to drive several
of Dick Davis' and Jeff Bowman's restored cats.
And yes there will be video, so hope to have that
up on the website in the near future. Talk about
re-living your youth... It's gona be fun !!
Danny Leger

[Zonkercraft]

I do hope that everyone had a safe, & healthy Christmas! I wish the same for your New Year's celebration.
You got your shopping done, your dinner's done.
So, now let's here some more about your Vintage OPC boats! I know that there is more out there! Let's here from ya!
Don't be shy, if your project is stalled, or you need help, we're here to help YOU!

Zonkercraft Vintageopcracing@aol.com

[jphii]

Don't be shy, if your project is stalled, or you need help, we're here to help YOU!

Then you need to head back down this way!!

[MN4V]

Here's one being put into Autocad. I'm behind schedule with completing the drawings but should be done soon.
Mark N

[afr]

looks good 4 v
are you adding to your race fleet

[MN4V]

Yes, this is a reproduction of an old outboard drag boat. Twin engines too.
I'm having fun just doing the Autocad drawings!
I guess I am starting to get a bunch of boats but not as many as John!!
Mark N

[MN4V]

I don't think that can be done to this design. It was designed as a outboard drag boat (hydroplane). Plus I have most of the hardware already.
It is going to be built exactly as the original boat(s). The plans are from the original designer too.
Mark N

[MN4V]

This is what the boat is going to look like when done.
More cool than Ron's boat, even if it only goes straight!
I'm sure by the time it's completed and actually running there will be places to run. If not it's still cool to me, just like T2X's boat.

Mark N

[warrior74z]

Nice, Mark...What's going to power it?
Do you know any history on the hydro in the photo? Looks like '67-'68 by the cars.
Thank you for having the courage to be different.
Barron

[MN4V]

Barron,
The original boat was designed by Ron Jones Sr. in 1970. This design was used to build Molly Ballou's (Molly Bee) and Jack Oxley's (Drag n Fly) boats. I'm going to be using inline six motors built as close to what Molly had on her boat as I can.
Molly's boat set the OPC T class kilo record at 116.014 mph in 1971 with Tinker Collinge driving. He said it would have gone faster but they didn't have any bigger props to use.
Mark N

[afr]

mark ??
i been having trouble steering mine if i blow the tail on it
we think it is cause of the narrow foot print on the sponsons??

[Zonkercraft]

mark ??
i been having trouble steering mine if i blow the tail on it
we think it is cause of the narrow foot print on the sponsons??
You might consider adding a turning fin to the side of the boat, just aft of the sponson. The narrow sponson is actually help you turn. If your sponsons were wider, they would just skid on the water. Hydro's are extremely tricky trying to get them to hook up in a turn. That's why the inboard & outboard hydros rely on big turning fins, to get them around a turn in a hurry.
With that said, if you are carrying the tail high in a turn, and a turning fin, the side thrust from the prop could lead to another problem. When you turn an outboard, the prop pushes the back end, opposite of the direction that you wish to turn in. This side thrust & the rotation of the right hand prop, doesn't allow the chine to dig in to help you turn. When you are skidding, you drop off the throttle, the chine digs in, and the boat rotates over on it's axis. This causes a hook, or barrel roll. Not a good thing.
One method of correcting this is to lock the motor, so that it doesn't turn. Then you add a rudder, and steer the boat with it, instead of the outboard's gearcase.

Just my thoughts,
Zonkercraft

[Zonkercraft]

For the first event in March? Chattahoochee, Fl. C'mon down, and get outta the COLD! Let's here from you. Let Bruce & John know that you going to participate! Bring the kids, bring the family, have a ball! Go to Disney World, then the races!

Zonkercraft

[T2x]

For the first event in March? Chattahoochee, Fl. C'mon down, and get outta the COLD! Let's here from you. Let Bruce & John know that you going to participate! Bring the kids, bring the family, have a ball!

Zonkercraft

We actually rolled "Dust'n the Wind" into the shop last weekend...........

T2x

[Zonkercraft]

We actually rolled "Dust'n the Wind" into the shop last weekend...........

T2x

Keep going!!!!!
Thanks
Zonkercraft

[Powercat]

http://www.powercatboat.com/video/video.html
Ok the video of the Dick's Marine Regatta III is
up at the link above.. If you like seeing the old
stuff running ( I am talking about the boats )
This was the 3rd year for this event and I can't
think of a better place to be than on the lake in
January in Arizona, so think about making it out
for next year. We had a blast,,,,,
Thanks,
Danny Leger
Austin, Texas


Speaking of "Outlaw" events and Power Cats....
I am going to the Dick's Marine Regatta this
year on the 13th of January at Saguaro Lake
outside Phoenix. Will be getting to drive several
of Dick Davis' and Jeff Bowman's restored cats.
And yes there will be video, so hope to have that
up on the website in the near future. Talk about
re-living your youth... It's gona be fun !!
Danny Leger

[MN4V]

It's really cold here in IL so I was dreaming about OPC Vintage.
Here's a photo from St Louis 1977 SJ Class. See anyone you recognize?
Mark N
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm315/MN392/SJClassStLouis-1977.jpg

[MN4V]

Another of Bill Seebold driving John Sherlocks SJ boat in Branson, MO. 1977
Mark N
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm315/MN392/BillSeeboldSJClass.jpg

[Raceman]

It's really cold here in IL so I was dreaming about OPC Vintage.
Here's a photo from St Louis 1977 SJ Class. See anyone you recognize?
Mark N
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm315/MN392/SJClassStLouis-1977.jpg

David Lee in the Green
Sherlock next
Can't see 3rd enough to tell
Can't remember who 073 is, but it'll come to me
Thought maybe the natural wood colored boat several down might have been Doug Pearl, but can't see the ponytail in the pic.

I was at St. Louis in 77.;)

[MN4V]

073 - Sam White
Mark N

[MN4V]

Here's a good one of Doug Pearl at Miami Marine Stadium.
Mark N
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm315/MN392/DougPearl-MiamiFL.jpg

[KG4]

Here's a good one of Doug Pearl at Miami Marine Stadium.
Mark N
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm315/MN392/DougPearl-MiamiFL.jpg
Awesome pictures:cheers:Thanks for sharing them

[RFYC]

Rideau Ferry Yacht Club, 1909-2009<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
100<SUP>th</SUP> Anniversary Vintage Regatta <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
The Rideau Ferry Yacht Club invites you to come and join them in celebrating their 100<SUP>th</SUP> Anniversary this summer on August 15<SUP>th</SUP> & 16<SUP>th</SUP> 2009. Once again the R.F.Y.C. will be hosting an APBA/CBF Vintage race boat regatta. Over the past 100 years the club has hosted some of the largest and most exciting international race boat regattas in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place>Eastern Canada</st1:place>.
<o:p> </o:p>
This year’s regatta promises to be very special as many of the antique and vintage race boat classes that raced in Rideau Ferry many years ago will be returning to recreate the history of boat racing back into the community. Rideau Ferry is located in the heart of cottage country along the beautiful and historic <st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Rideau</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>Lakes</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> system, which stretches from <st1:City><st1:place>Kingston</st1:place></st1:City> to <st1:City><st1:place>Ottawa</st1:place></st1:City>.
<o:p> </o:p>
We are looking to include many vintage OPC, tunnel hulls and V-bottoms as possible this year to provide as much excitement as possible both on and off the water.
<o:p> </o:p>
In 2007 the RFYC held its first Vintage Regatta which proved to be very successful. The regatta was an APBA/CBF joint sanction event, (as it will be this year), and attracted many race boats from Clayton NY, Wolfeboro NH, Buffalo NY, Montreal Que. which including a variety of inboard classes such as, large & small hydros, Jersey Skiffs, flat bottom speedsters and many other outboard racers, both on the water and on land.
<o:p> </o:p>
If you have a vintage race boat and would like to participate either on the water or on land, please contact the Rideau Ferry Yacht Club at <st1:PersonName>rfyc@sympatico.ca</st1:PersonName> soon as space is limited and many entrees have been submitted to date. For further information you can visit their web-site through www.vintageraceboatshop.com/RideauFerry-2009.htm (http://www.vintageraceboatshop.com/RideauFerry-2009.htm) .

[T2x]

Rideau Ferry Yacht Club, 1909-2009<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
100<SUP>th</SUP> Anniversary Vintage Regatta <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
The Rideau Ferry Yacht Club invites you to come and join them in celebrating their 100<SUP>th</SUP> Anniversary this summer on August 15<SUP>th</SUP> & 16<SUP>th</SUP> 2009. Once again the R.F.Y.C. will be hosting an APBA/CBF Vintage race boat regatta. Over the past 100 years the club has hosted some of the largest and most exciting international race boat regattas in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place>Eastern Canada</st1:place>.
<o:p> </o:p>
This year’s regatta promises to be very special as many of the antique and vintage race boat classes that raced in Rideau Ferry many years ago will be returning to recreate the history of boat racing back into the community. Rideau Ferry is located in the heart of cottage country along the beautiful and historic <st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Rideau</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>Lakes</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> system, which stretches from <st1:City><st1:place>Kingston</st1:place></st1:City> to <st1:City><st1:place>Ottawa</st1:place></st1:City>.
<o:p> </o:p>
We are looking to include many vintage OPC, tunnel hulls and V-bottoms as possible this year to provide as much excitement as possible both on and off the water.
<o:p> </o:p>
In 2007 the RFYC held its first Vintage Regatta which proved to be very successful. The regatta was an APBA/CBF joint sanction event, (as it will be this year), and attracted many race boats from Clayton NY, Wolfeboro NH, Buffalo NY, Montreal Que. which including a variety of inboard classes such as, large & small hydros, Jersey Skiffs, flat bottom speedsters and many other outboard racers, both on the water and on land.
<o:p> </o:p>
If you have a vintage race boat and would like to participate either on the water or on land, please contact the Rideau Ferry Yacht Club at <st1:PersonName>rfyc@sympatico.ca</st1:PersonName> soon as space is limited and many entrees have been submitted to date. For further information you can visit their web-site through www.vintageraceboatshop.com/RideauFerry-2009.htm (http://www.vintageraceboatshop.com/RideauFerry-2009.htm) .

Hey Watermark....wanna go? Sounds like fun.... I'll bring the wing if you'll bring the Moli.........

T2x

[pillsiv]

is your boat a Miles Master???

[T2x]

is your boat a Miles Master???


Which boat....... in what post........ are you asking about?