Okay... ODBA Pro 120 wanna bees, talk to us.

[mardyn]

We're trying our best to keep our Pro 120 class active 'til the Merc boys get up to speed. What would happen if we allowed 2.4 liter engines (with convention boost porting and EFI) to run on spec fuel at 100 pounds more than the 2.0L Merc engines. Would this help any?

If there is any interest, we MIGHT try it at Westlake later this month... or are y'all still scared of those little 4 cylinder OMCs and Yamahas?

Talk to us....

David Berry
ODBA

[mercrazy]

would this be temporary or permanent?

[mardyn]

The class is currently in serious trouble do to lack of participation. The level of competition out there by guys like T-Rex, Sid LeBlanc & Chris Ray have risen the bar so high, it's difficult for the average racer to compete... much like the rest of our classes. Maybe by allowing an unfair advantage in cubic inches and allowing total weight to be the great equalizer, we could get some of the other guys involved in the class. If it works and the class begins to show signs of revival, chances are we will make it permanent at the 2003 rules meeting... for but right now, it's just up for discussion and evaluation. Let's hear some feed back. Let us know what you think! C'mon and show these V4 boys that V6s still kick butt! Of course if we allow bigger V6s, we'll also have to eventually open up the cubic inch limit for the V4s too... it's a difficult balancing act.

David Berry
Marine Dynamics

[BarryStrawn]

I appreciate y'all are trying to keep the class going but if a highly restricted V6 is made competitive why will anyone bother developing and re-re-re-re-building a fuel motor. Appears there are less entries now than the old V4 Comp class. Just my opinion but I think you are going the wrong way. Of course I'm not up there racing so my opinion isn't worth much.

How about allowing unlimited (N2O) three cylinders? No rules except weight and actual displacement. Perhaps 15lbs per inch to fit in with the others? Sled, PWC, and half a six powerheads welcome. That would put a half 2.5 at 1147lbs or a 56 inch OMC at 840lbs.

Along the same lines, unlimited crossflows at 11lbs per inch or so. Easier to make that weight and lots of cheap old stuff could get blown up in the name of fun.

The smaller engines are not competitive on just fuel. No way the rigs can be light enough. I'm suggesting that instead of making yet another V6 class, why not make it more interesting for the smaller stuff. Also gives the guy who wants to race on N2O somewhere to have fun in a slower and less expensive class.

Thanks for listening,

Barry

[mardyn]

The idea is to try a get some folks involved in the class that already have existing rigs... man, an old Comp Vector with a hot 2.4L easily should be competitive, even on gasoline at 1250 pounds.

We don't want to "re-invent the wheel" but if someone has a rig like Barry mentioned in the post above, get it to the race and we'll find a place for it to compete and have a chance at winning.
(and BTW Barry, just because you don't race, doesn't mean we don't listen... We appreciated your input on the subject.)

I know those boats are out there, I saw 'em at Lake Buhlow earlier this month at the AOF race. C'mon guys, bring 'em out to Westlake!

David Berry
Marine Dynamics

[BarryStrawn]

David,

I know you are listening but I understand that what you need right now are guys to show up. Those folks have the opinions that matter. Why the 2 litre V6 guys are staying home is the question.

Barry

[T-REX]

Because a majority of guyz that have botes that fall in the 120 class(and can be competitive), are jus plain skeered ****less of gitt'in thier assed whooped in front of a few witnesses...then the others that ain't skeered, iz jus to dam lazy to put forth the effort to make the races...It takes work, and money(More work than Money) to run in the Pro 120 class...I run in the V-4 comp class year before last, without a chance in hell of winning a penny, jus to git the v-6 merc in the class...I payed my $100 entry and run in Pro Carb, cuz I wuxz there...Nobody out there haz packed mo asswhoop'ins than I have, but I'm there!!! Now, I understand the lack of money thang, cuz if it wern't fer sponsors and help from friends, I couldn't even go watch, mussless run the class...The ODBA haz it set up for a newbee to run the first time witout joining ODBA, jus pay entry fee and if ness, fuel...If U like it and U want to return, U must join ODBA to run in later events, if U don't care for it or U rather do sumpthin else, don't cost U nuthin mo...I realize U yanks would have a long pull to compete in these southern races, but there are sum thats not so down south...A good many of the racers at Montgomery this passed weekend made a 6hr pluss pull jus to race...I have heard so much piss'in and moan'in about what iz wrong wit Pro 120, and what should be dun, and theres nobody even steppin up to tha plate check it out...David haz opened it up even more...Jack and I have discoussed it also, and agree, but there will be only ONE winner...so don't cum expecting to git a first place handed to ya, cuz it don't work that way...The upper few of the boats spend countless hours working thier asses off to be in the top few...I personally work full time on my bote, I don't see how those guyz do it that work all day and then prep a race bote...David haz layed it on the table, it's time to put up or shut up...The future of the class az well az the sport iz in ya'llz handz, I kan't do no mo...Only thing lef to say iz, U should have been at Montgomery, cuz that wuz the only chance U would have had to outrun ME...Sid got a freebe, but he will work for the next one, and so will U if U have ballz enuff to sho up!!!...REX:cool:

[Raceman]

Since nobody asked my opinion I'll give it anyhow. I think the class oughta stay with the 120 (or there abouts, like it is now) rules. Everybody runs the same weight. Everybody runs the same fuel. Everybody can run the same injection. I did have intentions last year of building a boat for this year, although I wasn't gonna drive it, but wanted to use some of my old junk, the 6 one barrel Tillotsens for instance. For whatever reason they were excluded from the rules and I wasn't interested in breaking down a 2.5 horn motor to put the front on an old 2 liter block. In all honesty with all the other distractions of this year I probably wouldn't have gotten around to it anyway and the carbs weren't that big a deal either, but I still think the discrepency in the fuel rules between the brands is unfair and is a big deal in my opinion.

Rex, as far as gettin' outrun in front of witnesses, that don't bother me at all. I just don't think I want to spend a lot of money doin' it unless there's some fightin' chance.

I really think this class is one of the most interesting in ODBA.

[nitro hydro]

Thanks for the interest in the class . I have a boat in progress now . Its just time and money and other projects has got the better of me this year. I was late getting my boat and then getting my hands on some parts for the T2X is a job in its self. I will make at least 3 of the races this year. Even if I hafe to run my XS150.
David instead of letting the 2.4 motor in how about letting the behind the liner 2.0 with carbs in . Start them off at 1250 or 1300lbs. It seams alot of people have asked for this why not try it ? if they have a advantage add a little weight . Lets just try and keep the class going. Again thanks for the interest David.
thanks Troy

[Ray]

David, The pro 120 should 120 cubes with all motors openrules. On gas 1050 lbs, fuel 1150. Let 2.4 run at 1250 with carbs and gas only. The way it is now, to many rules for merc with finger portedmotor and no chance to win against v4 on fuel. There are a few for 1 120 boats that would run. I have a for 1 120 rig i would run if it had a chance to win. Thanks, rahracing@snet.net

[Ray]

T Rex, after reading your poast, I have to respond. At the start of this class 3 years ago, the merc 120 was suposed to be any motor with carbs.So i bought a for 1 120 boat and 3 120 motors. Before the ink was dry on bill of sale, the rules were changed to steel finger ported motors. Then, before i could digest that ruleing, 50 lbs were added to 120 merc. Now i have a boat i cant use in any other class except fuel classes because of foolish out dated rule excluding full tunnels and 3 motors i cant give away. I dont unrerstand your negitive views on this class ? You should run super stock if you like all thease resticting rules. The class Reads PRO 120.. Run all motors open, gas, 1050, fuel 1250, 2.4 with carbs only at 1250. Open rules mean , as you put it , no pissing. I know this, The apba formular class with 2.4 motors really works. Some thing to think about ! rahracing

[T-REX]

Being mixed in the 120 class since the introduction of the v-6 mercury, I don't recall the weight ever being stated az less than 1150...az the motors were alwayz fingerported...the first year wuz to see where the 2.0 merc would fall...wuz it too fast, to slow, need weight , need weight break??? that wuz what it wuz for...the exibition year, I ran a 2.0 @ 1250#'s...I also ran a 2.4 at the same weight(they didn't know that, I jus wanted to see the diffrence)...I don't have a negitive outlook on the class, I personally don't think it should have changed any rules for anuther year...I never got my motor like I wanted, but I wuz getting there...Ya'll based your opinions on 1 bote, that in everbodyz opinion, couldn't be beat...that wuz my goal, and I wuz getting there, with Carbs and gas...Now, efi jus opened up the pocket book...I would like to see the v-6's running @ 1100#s, but that won't bring any more participation to the class...Participation is the whole purpose to this post, or should I say the LACK OF!!...If U would run, then your suguestions of rule changes would hold water...U kan't set up rules till ya see where U fall and weight the outcum, and ya kan't make changes by watching 1 merc in the class...I'm flattered that everone muss think that I have the baddest assed 2.0 in the country...They must, because if I kan't outrun Chris Ray's Lil Monster, then They think they kan't either, so that meens they kan't outrun me either...I'll accept that title tho...but I think U should try and proove me wrong...But, Maybe I do have the baddest 2.0 in the country!!!!...REX:cool:

[6Killer]

It is all to clear now. You live in the "tlight zone". You must of dreamed up all those rules, nothing was ever mentioned until after the rules meeting. As for 3 motors to get rid of I think that you are down to 2 now am I not correct. And as far as your tunnel goes, it is legal in 2 classes that I am aware of and probably one more. Ray.......YOUR A CRYBABIE, plain and simple. If you were given the changes that you ask for you still would bitch, that is just the kind of person you project yourself to be.

Ray, I think stamp collecting is where it is at! Give it a try, you can make up any rules you like.

Chris Ray
512-264-3124


Raceman, thanks for the email pic but your a puss too!
;)

[Hammer]

I'm sorry Raceman when you said you did not want to spend lot of money you make me SICK, you must be in the top 5 people on this board, as far as $$$$ goes. I have over $ 100,000. invested in my new boat design, you don't here me cry. You have more boats and motors sitting around, just find a class , and slap one together. If you need a ACE driver I could find you a handfull at a ODBA race.Give it a chance, chump change for you.

[KG4]

Thats to bad i hope the class doesnt die.I had big plans to run the class but i hav been laid off since feb.I talked to Chris Ray about set up and stuff like that and he is one hell of a nice guy,Thanks Chris.As far as guys not wanting to race because they might get beat thats assinine.Thats why its called racing and not winning.If i had a dollar for every time i got my ass wooped when i raced stock outboard i would have a nice little nest egg by now.I hope the class dont die because of its affordability Marty Howard has his rig for sale for $6000.00 turn key and he ran pretty good with it to any time you can get into racing for under $10,000 thats great i had that invested in my stock rig.Rex you are doin a hell of a job and i seen you beat the nitro motors before i hope i can come play with you guys in the future.

[madman]

What i would like to see is let them run any fuel any injecton
SVS,AMS.MAD& STOCK ,LET RUN ANY motor combo
sleeved down 2.5 >2 liter and let 2.4 run on carbs and gas only
tech classes causes to many problem and hard feelings in this type of 120 class.
racing is not cheap anywhere so I don't think you can make cheap racing in any class so let them loose and see if they step up to the plate then.
just a thought
Madman

[Ray]

Chris Ray, Now I know why the class is dead. It is because of people like you. I was just stateing my opinion and do not need to be bashed by you. Ray

[6Killer]

Tell me why I am the reason the class is dying. Please, I would like to know so that I my remedy that. You may not realize it but you are doing considerable damage by the crying that you do about being fair. You are infulencing others decisions to try the class by all of your complaints. You have not even fielded a boat in the class and look at all the bad mouthing you do about rules.
The way it appears to me is you have no intentions of entering unless you are gauranteed a win without any effort.

Chris

512-264-3124

[mercrazy]

seems like everyone is more interested in getting previous racers back. do you want true amateurs in the class or just lower budget professionals? seems if you made it easier for new people to run what they have, you might have more participation. maybe this is the wrong class. maybe you need a beginners class for this type racer. i've never boat raced before but really want to. here's what i would like. i'm not belly aching or trying to change the rules- just what would make it interesting for a novice like me.
1. keep the 126 in. limit.
this will keep the speeds down a little and it's getting hard
to find a 2.0 block. 2.4's are everywhere.
2. any block acceptable - sleeved down 2.4's etc.
3. behind the liner acceptable.
cuttting on the block, ports, etc. and trying new stuff is the fun
of it for me. tinkering with the engine and hearing it run is what
i'm interested in most.
4. carbs or factory horn injected- whichever is fairest to V4's.
keeps the cost down
5. add weight to all boats.
this lets us run a drag, 2002, bullet or anything more available.
i don't want to run 90mph in a 300lb. hull.

can the v4's compete without the nitro?
could you add weight to v6's so the v4's would be competitive?
maybe this would slow everything down so much, no one would want to race that slow? maybe the hairy edge is what makes it fun? maybe i would like the hairy edge? i just want to build engines and race at relatively safe speeds. maybe i should just build to current rules and get someone else to drive.
just don't give up on a slower speed, lower budget class whatever rules you decide on.

[Ray]

Chris, there is only one cry baby and that is you! You are afraid to run mercs straight up. You want the unfair avantage to win. You want pro v4 120,exotic ft halfs, inj , on fuel to run against out dated merc finger ported with stock parts on gas at heaver weight. I will be glad to run you on equal rules and see who is the crybaby. Dont try to blame me, you guys made the rules and have small fields because of it !

[JTS Racing]

Ya sho know how to take tha stress out of coaching a 9 year old ball team.

Ya want equal rules....go bracket racing. Heck, even the most talked about form of racing, Nascar, doesn't have EQUAL rules. Fords, Chevys and Pontiacs don't run by the same specs. Class racing is set to make it "competitive"..period.

Sure Chris seemed to dominate the class, but, he rolled the dice and won. How many of ya out there ever played with Nitro??? His sucess didn't come overnight, and neither will anyone elses. You don't like the rules for the Merc, then build an all out V4...that OPTION is YOURS! Then again you can always build an Unlimited and do anything you like,,,,,jus one main rule,,,,meet the weight.

The rules change for the classes almost every year due to new markets and products. They want participaion. Twice now they have made a rule change at my request and I am yet to make a race with them. Westlake I hope to be the first. But, I didn't ask for major changes and I really didn't expect it to happen. These guys will work with you IF you work with them.

THERE IS NO BEGINNERS CLASS IN ODBA!!!!!! There never will be. The beginner is in YOU. Until you have pulled into the lane and made a pass, you never know what you or your ride can do. :cool:

[TUG]

The clouds are darkening. The wind is blowing. The ski is swirling. Raceman, I think i see a storm brewing. :D

[G-Train]

I say tweak the rules, not re-write them constantly.

I agree with part of what Hydro said. You see the rules, work with them, and do the best research, testing, and experimenting, and you'll start winning.

You can't expect that everytime a certain motor gets beat, you have to add weight to the winning boat/motor combo. Like T-Rex said, a lot of what Merc guys (I'm one) are complaining about is based on his 2litre, and the v4's beating him. Like he said, we all assume he has the top 2litre in the world. We just need more people like Rex to continually push the limits of the motor he chooses to run. Not say, unfair that Chris wins all the time so add weight to his type of motor/rig.

It seems that a lot of people want to race in the ODBA. That's great. But they think they need the rules changed to match the rig they have, and not do the work, and pay the dues that these guys have throughout the years. You are probably not going to win right away, unless you buy a winner, or hire a winner for setup. Even then, there is much more to it than matting the throttle when your on the course. EXPERIENCE!!!!

Hydro is right, THERE IS NO BEGINNER CLASS in ODBA. It seems everytime they try to make one (Lake Racer), the Pros and the $$ go to work, and start to dominate very quickly. This is a double edged sword. Of course you want the quality boats (Martini, Reynolds, etc.) out there in the "beginner?" class, but you also want the new guy to come in and have fun, and not be embarrassed, this will help grow the sport.

The Pro 120 class looks like a ball, and I'd put a rig in it if I could afford to along with my Mod Prod boat, but I am a part time racer, 1-2 times per year. I'd hate to see a class go by the wayside, but if the interest isn't there, maybe it should, (hint, that's a challenge for all interested to get out there).

In my opinion, the ODBA is the Major Leagues of Outboard Drags, so the beginners will need to pay their dues (like me), but they are definately needed and wanted out there.

Like Rex says, "Don't be Skeerd", put together something to run in one of these classes, if your interested. I challenge the Merc 2litre and inline guys to put together something that'll kick that L'il Monsters A$$ in Pro120.

Greg

[6Killer]

I'm flattered that you think I wrote the rules! Unfortunately it don't work that way. When the V6's were first suggested, I proposed they run at least the same weight. I was shot down, the rules were made by a group of V6 merc big wigs that thought the motor would dominate, not me. Maybe if you participated a little more in the infrastructure of ODBA you would see how things get done.

If the V4 on fuel is the ticket, why don't you build one? Parts are damn sure a lot cheaper than a merc. Fact is I have pleanty of blocks I am willing to sell for dirt!

You know as well as I do the merc on fuel is far superior to the V4. But that is OK I can handle that. It would be a challange that I would enjoy chasing.

Build your fuel merc and bring it to jasper, I won't be there but the little Yamaha 107ci motor will. Ya never know, ya might have a chance.

See Ya Around
Chris

512-264-3124

[DaMann]

I just can't set back and read any more, this 120 bull**** haz went farther than it ever should. Now, having a 120 boat in the build(for 3 years now) I just have to express my opinion. 6killer, you ain't so bad, you just stumbled across the right combonation of junk. You knew I wus about ready to hit the water with mine, so you conveintally decided to lay out for the year, good move on your part! The v-6s can run what they want, don't really matter, they can't compete with a properly prepared OMC. 6killer, one thing I have to agree with you on, is Ray is a damn CRY BABY. I don't recall seeing his race boat at any of the ODBA races, so if he can't at least show up to compete, then his opinion shouldn't mean a damn thang. Trex's mercury must be the fastest in the world, because it seems no one wants to go up against it with another mercury. Now there is even a chrysler in the run, hehe. Danger zone didn't seem to have much trouble with it though. This post has taken a complete 180 from what it was intended, if you panzies can't stay on corse, and answer the post, I wouldn't want you in the lane next to me anyway. I will be nice in this reply because all you want to be CRY BABIES ain't worth getting my blood preasure up over. 6killer, get your ass back to the water, Ray, put up or shut up!, Trex your luck has to change, somebody might break, and you may win one. Raceman, you have got almost as much BS as you do money. Hydro, I hope your as good a competitor as you are a bull****ter. Green Machine, your ass belongs to me!!, don't quit just yet. I will be there to kick ass, and you panzies bring a pencil to take names!!! I hate CRY BABIES.WHAAAA WHAAAAWHAAAAAAAAA

[6Killer]

It is not my nature but I am going to give all you guys a little of my opinion. I backed up 6Killer for two world championships and it appears that most of you guys are totally missing what boat racing is all about. Before we won our two back to back world championships in the pro 120 class, we did not ever come close to a first place. We went to race, be with the other guys, enjoy the weekend and enjoy the whole experience. Gentlemen, it is not about winning. It's about safety, fun and enjoying the life experience. I can say that I had some of the best times in my entire life at the boat races. So, if you have a boat, join up. It will be one of the most rewarding times of your life.

Survivor Tom

[6Killer]

Gotta Love him!

Chris

[G-Train]

You went to be with the other GUYS!!!!!!!!!!....That's just sick.

G

[T-REX]

I muss say U did spruce thangz up a lil in tha last couple of yearz...except in restrantz:D U even did a purdy good job rais'in that long legged wuss, son of yo's...I thank U autta move on down yher and drive my bote for me...We'll swap up this year...U drive and I'll beat tha women off U...6killer, U sho az hell had me fooled...all tha time U wuz helpin me try to whoop yo ass, U wuz kill'in tha class!!!...Maybe if I sent all theze 2.0 merc parts U gave me back, the class will pick up...While ya'll iz call'in names, go ahead and git me a good one, I dun been called everthang in tha book, and sum that ain't in tha book...and tha thang that makes me proud iz, I AM most of them!!!...Crybabiez, panziez, woosess, bull****terz, and then theyz iz Raceman, He'z jus plain dam UGLY...Ya'll all keep ya'll asses at home, ya'll kan't win!!...And ain't NUN of U ugly sonzabitches built right fer me ta drive anywher to see...If ya kan't run wit da big dogz, keep yo lil puppy ass at home!!! I quess it iz tru, I do have the baddest assed 2.0 in tha country and all U panziez iz skeered...stay home, I hate ta see grown men cry...Thiz don't meen U Sid, I gotz a score ta settle wit U...Sovivor Tom, would U check and see what happen, I ain;t got my Glo-Tag sponsor money yet, or wuz this orange Glo-Tag it???...King Rex:cool:

[Psyco]

And I'll be running an "uncompetitive" v-6 Merc. I think I have a good chance of making the show after considering the speeds and times. The merc can do it on gas against the fuel v-4's. You have to take into consideration how much them v-4 pistons gotta way to make 120 ci. What it all boils down to is setup. There are no factory hotrods in this class. Wer'e all running outdated botes and motas. 120 can be considered a real hotrod class run by folks who have to think to race.
I don't make a whole pot lode of money. I'm just a werking stiff blue collar who has a bad habit. I'm gonna bust my balls over the next week to get my bote reddy for West Lake. If any body wants to come over and help, it will surely be appreciated. Right now I'm basically doing it all by myself. BUT DAMMIT!!!!....I'm gonna give it my best. There is really nuthin' wrong wiff the 120 rules as they are written. You just gotta werk'em right.
One thing to say about Chris Ray.......Freakin' Genius. That Lil' Monster is a study in home brewed engineering and setup. Rex had him runnin' scared. Too bad them Wiseco's let him down on more than one occasion.
I'll be runnin' a Rex prepped motor. When ya want it done right, you go to the people in the know.
Now I hafta go get my bote reddy and I suggest that anyone who is serious about their racin' do the same and let Ray whine alone.

Keep it real
Keep it simple

[Racemore]

I have a v4 looper block and it looks like you can put a small block chevy piston in it.If there is a 2.0 liter limit than if ya got a 2.0 then that should be able to run the same fuel period.If nitro is allowed then everybody should be able to run it.nitro vs gas is not even in any other motorsport venue.:cool:

[T-REX]

I'm not takin up for tha Johnnyrudes, but a 2.0 V-4 on gas @ the same weight as the V-6, will sholy be tha underdog...It don't sound right that a 2.0 v-4 kan't run wit a 2.0 v-6, but that is just tha way it iz...A 426 wedge cannot run with a 426 Hemi...same CI, diffrent ballgame...jus like the V-4 vs V-6...same ci, difrent ballgame...If we wanted 2 unlimited classes, a small CI, and a large CI, then by all meenz, open'er up and put fuel in tha V-6s...then the V-4's will be gone, because they kan't keep up the wit the improvement...CI's vs CI's don't alwayz work, and if anyone here iz ever raced cars of any type, U know what I am talking about...there will alwayz be sumone that iz gittin tha short end of tha stick, at least they think they are...I think the 120 class haz now been opned to a challenge, that everbody can compete in, but with out working on ya set up and propping, it will be a total waste of ya time and ya money...See ya'll in Westlake, but don't expect a freebe!!!!...REX

[Racemore]

I know what ya mean bout the V4 to V6 but if ya stay at 2.0 and adjust the weight.A Nitro shifter kart would bust our ass.Weight to HP. Somethin bout U got nitro and I don't that doesn't sound right lest U got it. How much HP do U think U'r makin T.
:cool:

[T-REX]

I nevered dyno'd tha motor...at it's strongest, it might make 230 HP, maybe...thats a hopefull number...I thank Chris's Lil Monster produced around 250+ on tha juice(nitro)...My new motor will make 400+...I'm only 260 away from my goal...REX;)

[JTS Racing]

Well, I hate ta get out of da bull****ting,,,but,,,Chris summed it up pretty well! It's all about friendships and having a good time. I learned a few years ago that reguardless of how much you spend, you will never make even a small percentage back if you won ever race you entered. It seems we all enjoy getting on here and throwing gestures out about rules and engines and hulls, but when it comes down to it.....it's all because WE love the sport we have chose to throw our money away at. The races, weather it be brackets or ODBA or APBA or whoever, is were its at. If you have never experienced it, you should!

We will continue to debate the rules and engines here and have a lot of fun telling each how wrong they are. If ya want to race,,,come on,,,spend a few dollars and make sum passes. Once at an event, your hooked. Sure everyone wants to win, but if they don't, it really don't matter dat much.....cause you were there is what counted!;)

[Racemore]

But theres not alot of 300 hp gas 2 liter's so lets bracket and leave it to the driver.I like to race when I know I have a chance to win every time I line up and so does the other guy.Cuts out the hiney whineing.:cool: