25 Motion Set up

[jpf091959]

I currently have a 25 Motion with twin 225 Opti's, w/sportmaster 1.75 gearcases.

I would like more speed. Should I step up to new 300XS or purchase used 280's or 300PM's. My goal is for a boat that is solidly above 100mph. I don't race. I have heard about the re-build times on 280's. I live in Washington State and my boating season is probably five months long.

I currently have a porpoise issues with my current setup. It never stops, I think it is a weight distribution problem. 5" set back, raised 1.5" above. I am running 30" labbed cleavers.

[foo kin fast]

I have the same boat with the same problem , I have spoken to wildman he recons get rid of the jackplates I need transom mount water pickups and add a tunnel tab. I will let you know what works.

[jpf091959]

thanks. I am really hoping I can avoid a tunnel tab but that might the answer.

how is your boat rigged? I want to move up to 300's. I enjoy my boat at, it is not new but I seems to have the right equipment except motors.

[foo kin fast]

My boat has twin 300 yamaha's on it , the motors are a bit heavier so it porpoises even more. My boat is running at 17% slip so I have some other isues to deal with too.

[jpf091959]

Nice looking boat. How do you like the Yamaha's?

I haven't tried removing my jackplates. I thought I would take 50 lbs of plate weights and try moving them around up under the deck to see if I change the balance point.

[skydog]

My boat has Jack plates 5" set back nice for set up. When i do get it just right i will not touch. My boat has 280s on it. LOVE it 110-113 mph is very easy. As far as the hop i get it at about 45-60. I just drive right past those speeds a slight turn helps a ton to let some air out too. Just pulling power heads off to have them all rebuilt. Not bad first time ever, motors are 01 and man do they run SWEET!!! Could never go back to a 260 the 280s idle and run like a clock!

Skydog Sportmasters high! About 1.75 above the bottom. DO not mess with hull mount water pick ups!! You dont need them, i have some Bobs i will sell you if you want. :) :)

[skydog]

By the way any motor you said up top will get you past 100mph WAY WAY EASY! I have over 150lbs of radio and with four big guys in the boat she will run 110!mph :) :)

[jpf091959]

How many hours can you get out of the 280's. What kind of sportmaster do you have. Are they the same as any other merc. product or unique to 280? I have 2001 225 Opti's. They run great but I only 88mph out the set up. I bought this boat to do 100. I also never get rid of the porpoise.

[skydog]

Yea the sportys are the same. Man i got alot of time on mine, but a ton of time is just idle. I feel 150-200 hours. 88mph is not to bad with Optis but if you are still hopping you for sure have more speed left in it. Sounds like you might have motors to deep and to much trim. What kind of props do you have?? You spinning in or out?? Lower units? How deep are your motors? Where are you batterys?

[skydog]

Here is a crapy video at about 110mph.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z5GLilK6ZI

[jpf091959]

Wow, that boat is rock steady. If I do find a pair of 280's, I will definately have to talk to you.
Do you move anything forward, like batteries.

[skydog]

Will do!! Let me know!

Skydog

[jeffbare]

As far as the hop, if the motors are trimmed correctly and you keep in the throttle you should come out of it around 70mph.

[jpf091959]

I have the motors mounted 1.5"-1.75" above.

I have tried many different trim settings. The top speed doesn't seem to change more than a few mile an hour. The hop never goes away. It is annoying but if I don't watch it is starts move side to side a little and just keeps getting better. I have bled the steering and it seems solid. I thought I try putting some plate weight up front and see if that changes the behavior. If it does I can relocate the batteries. I love the boat though.

[jpf091959]

Is there an easy way to tell the difference between a sportmaster and CLE, by just looking at them. Is there a way to tell which model of sportmaster is mounted i.e. 225hp, 300hp etc.

[WILDMAN]

This video is a 25 Liberator at 105 with 1999 300 Promaxs. It was faster with the motors higher. I'm less than an inch above the bottom.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=805c3Asi9kw

[skydog]

Yea the sportmasters are unpainted. If you are getting a side to side rock one motor is higher than the other. Let me know when you get your motors we will get you ROCKING!!!

Skydog

[WILDMAN]

I rigged my firdt 25 with Johnson 225HO's. 88 mph was the best top speed on them too.

[jpf091959]

Thanks skydog and Wildman, you two have been a big help. I notice when I look back while running hard the right motor looks like it is moving slightly. The left motor looks solid. I suspect that is causing the problem.

[skydog]

Are your Jack plates manual?

[Markus]

Is there a way to tell which model of sportmaster is mounted i.e. 225hp, 300hp etc.

The 3-liter Sportmasters are different from the 2.5-liter.

[jpf091959]

The 3.0 sportmasters are bigger. I don't know if that means heavier duty but I do believe the gears and clutch are bigger.

[blkmtrfan]

Didn't the last owner have your boat rigged with 3.0 liter mercs? Unless I am thinking about a different boat :confused:

[jpf091959]

It previously had a pair of 300x on it. I believe those are 3.0 but I don't know the weight. I know they had remote trim pumps. I need to call Brandy and talk to him about setting up different motors.

[blkmtrfan]

It previously had a pair of 300x on it. I believe those are 3.0 but I don't know the weight. I know they had remote trim pumps. I need to call Brandy and talk to him about setting up different motors.

It is the boat I thought it was.

Yes they are 3.0 liters, they had the remote trim pumps becasue they had the offshore mids.

And do get in touch with Brandy, he will definately know how to set that boat up ;)

[jpf091959]

I talked to Brandy. He was very definitive about what he would do. I was leaning the same way, but I still had questions. It was good to talk to him.

[blkmtrfan]

So what did he tell you?

[jpf091959]

He said the 280's would be great for getting the most out the boat, but I don't race it and aren't planned to. The new Opti's are virtually maintenance free and still provide decent performance.

[skydog]

Well i told you that. :) :) :)

Skydog

[jpf091959]

Yea, I know, I just love the sound of a 280 though. I boat on the Columbia river and the current can move pretty fast at times. So being able to smoothly shift between F-N-R is important. I think a 300XS will get me about 100 mph. So I will bolt my 225's to the transom and give it a try as soon as I can. I am a little concerned about balance. Thanks Skydog.

[skydog]

Sounds good buddy! The 280s idle and shift like a fourstroke!

Skydog

[WILDMAN]

The 300XS motors will get you easily over 110 mph.

[skydog]

Yea thats for sure!

[FluidMotion]

I am new to this posting and computer chat stuff so excuse me if i screw up! i have some questions also about setting up a 25 motion being that I just purchased a 93 model. I also purchased a pair of 05 280 short shaft off shores to go on it. my question is that these 280s have cle gear cases, I was told these would work fine on a motion is this correct? also the boat I have was built with threw hull water pickups should I use them? thanks for any help ,Im new to tunnell hulls and twins, I have always had allisons and decided to buy something the wife would ride in (maybe)!

[FluidMotion]

I forgot to mention I have not mounted my motors yet. skydog read earlier in the post you were asking about height, gearcase, and rotating in or out and batteris. I have 6in jackplates on the boat, should I set the motors up to turn in or out? how high should I mount these motors to start with cle cases? and were do you recommend battery location? thanks

[skydog]

The Cles would work with a hull mounted pick up, but i would sell both and put some sportmasters on FOR SURE!!! That is what Merc made the Sportmaster for!

Skydog

[skydog]

Turn them out, my boat was spooky turning them in! The batterys are fine in the middle back. Sell the CLES!

Skydog

[WILDMAN]

I found that turning them in made the porpoising not as bad

[skydog]

Yea but made mine SCARY way to much lift. When you learn how to drive the cat hop is nothing, gas and turn a little bit. Dont cruse at 60mph do it at 40 or 115mph!! HA HA

Skydog

[FluidMotion]

thanks for the info! do the cles hurt performace or just limit you on set up (motor height)? I was told I should start out about 1-1 1/2 inches high and start with a set of 15X32 lab cleavers. If I were to sell the cles what should I ask for them they are freshly rebuilt 4 hole with staight skeg. I have been told to put bobs nose cones on them and they would work as good as sportys? thanks for the help!

[skydog]

Yea i guess you could put nose cones on them. Not sure on the speed thing cle with a cone vs Sportmasters i have never run them on my boat. 15X32 YES YES YES! 1-1 1/2 inches high sounds real close watch your water psi.

Skydog P.S. When the time comes send your props to Bblades talk to Brent he is a master on these props! Hell he was the main man at Merc!!

[skydog]

You are going to LOVE this boat!! It rides so so well! It is like a magic carpet ride!!! HA HA

Skydog

[FluidMotion]

thanks for the help skydog,maybe I can call you or something when I start mounting these motors in a couple of weeks? do you feel the cles with cones will hurt my speed that much? I would like to run around 110 mph with a couple of people and have good acceleration. what is the advantage of the cones over the stock cle? Like i said earlier this boat has water pickups glassed in the bottom from the factory there not a bolted on the transom, would you use them? thanks

[jpf091959]

Write Espen, He may have CLE's on his 25' motion but not sure. Skydog has lots of good information.

[skydog]

Man if they are glassed in try them. They are not in line of the lower units? Watch if you have high slip numbers on your props! They will slow your top end 1-2 mph. Does not sound like much but if you are stuck at 118 or 108 mph it is big!! HAHA And a lot more crap to deal with.

Skydog

[FluidMotion]

Ya I was told today they are not really worth the trouble, I was told to sand them off and fill the holes that they would cost me more speed than they were worth. I was also told to put bobs cones on my cles since I just had them rebuilt , I was told they would work as good as sportys and give me better water pressure. hope their right!

[skydog]

Yea that sounds about right!! GOOD LUCK BUDDY!

[FluidMotion]

thanks for all the help, I will let you know if i run into any problems. maybe you can help bail me out if i do!

[skydog]

You are welcome anytime!

Skydog [email protected]

[jpf091959]

I think we need to see about having a Motion regatta. It seems like Motion owners love their boats.

[skydog]

Yes!!!!!!!! :) :)

[FluidMotion]

Let me get mine going first!!!

[funithesun]

Are your 30's a 141/2 or 15" diameter?

[jpf091959]

Mine are labbed 30's" that are 14 1/2" diameter. I am on 1.75 sportmasters. My Opti's are not xs versions. I love the reliability and fuel ecomony, but would like some more speed. I have them mounted on 6" jack plates, so they sit off the transom. I think I will bolt them right to the transom like skydog and wildman suggest.

[funithesun]

Don't remember reading here about your rpm's. Are they right? If it's in the range and you can borrow a set of 15x28's, they may make the boat run flatter thus reducing your hop without changing top rpm's too much. 4 blade props will also give you a little stern lift and may do something slightly differant than changing diameter and pitch. The cle's with bobs cones will be faster than sporties. Then you can safely take off the h2o pick-ups. With set back, you shouldn't need as much trim, so look at level bottom to level cav plate maybe plus 1. You might be trimming out too much and slipping the prop. Most motions run with a center tab from what Ive seen, but playing with all these might make the differance. If you take the standards from other 25 motion guys you will most likely achieve the same or very close. But just like all kids aren't the same from the same parents, your boat can also act differant. I only speak from experience, as I've played with all those combos with my 28' Skater and my set-up works for me and it's not the same as others.

[jpf091959]

Thanks. I may take you up on the offer to barrow props. I always wanted to try some four blades. I do have a set 28" three blade labbed cleavers, but I have never tried them. I am getting 5600-5700 RPM with the 30" I figured the 28's" would bump against the rev. limiter. I think I will bolt the engines directly to the transom. I really want to move up to 300xs but I figure if I can't get it to settle down with my 225's it will only be worse with 300's. I really appreciate all the help and pride everyone takes in the this site.

[SHAWNO]

just bought a 25 any ideas on how far apart to mount engines i was told these are to close to each other my bullets are right in line with my tunnel wall so the jack plates are notched and hang in the tunnel a little thanks shawn

[WILDMAN]

49-51 inches. I set the 25 Liberator at 49.5" Same hull as the motion and Skater

[SHAWNO]

the boat currently has 15 inch 280 consumer motors and it only runs 100-103 im told.the motors are coming off and im putting a pair of 15 inch 300x on it should i get rid of jack plates and mount to transom i got brand new 6 inch cmc should i use them and how high do you recomend thanks

[SHAWNO]

any idea of what a 1990 fully rigged 25 motion should weigh with 4 batterys and a good stereo i think its heavy and im going to weigh it just want a range as i have no idea thanks

[WILDMAN]

20" motors fit better and won't be under water when off plane. I've always bolted to transom with 20's, but there's no way 15's can be bolted to the transom.

[SHAWNO]

this boat had the transom cut down for the 15 inch motors they got rid of the splash well made it euro style they might be able to go on transom . the motors i have are 25 inch and i have one 20 inch mid already i just thougt that it would look great with mad 15 inch mids.

[skydog]

the boat currently has 15 inch 280 consumer motors and it only runs 100-103 im told.the motors are coming off and im putting a pair of 15 inch 300x on it should i get rid of jack plates and mount to transom i got brand new 6 inch cmc should i use them and how high do you recomend thanks


Yea you about 10mph off.

Skydog

[jpf091959]

I want to bolt my 225's directly to the transom also, but the splash well is cut down so my "X" dimension will be screwed up. Am I out of luck or can I bolt a stainless flat plate to the transom with the upper engine mount bolted to it and the lower bolted through the plate and transom. Any ideas. thanks

[FluidMotion]

were are you guys getting insurance for your motions? Everywhere Ive tried they keep hitting me with a 90mph max that they will write. Ive tried every company I know and have had no luck! Any help would be great. thanks

[Wild Wil]

were are you guys getting insurance for your motions? Everywhere Ive tried they keep hitting me with a 90mph max that they will write. Ive tried every company I know and have had no luck! Any help would be great. thanks

I had a quote of 3800.00 / yr for 12 months on my 30 Motion. I will look for the info. Speed over 100 on the quote.

[skydog]

Yea that is about what i pay!

Skydog

[FluidMotion]

thanks, I finally found some insurance. I sanded off the low water pickups that were built in the bottom off my boat and filled in the holes and smoothed everything back out. I was told that while I was working on the bottom that I should wet sand the last 10 foot of the boat with 600 grit, is there any thing to gain from this and if so what? and would 600 grit be right? thanks

[FluidMotion]

can anyone shed some light on this wet sanding thing,
sounds like alot of work if theres not something to gain!

[WILDMAN]

To me it's a waste of time just to try to make your boat look like crap underneath.

[jpf091959]

I haven't done much with the bottom of the boat, but I do claybar from the chine line up and then wax. I wouldn't mind cleaning up the bottom, there are several small scratches. They aren't deep, not sure if I should try and fill them with color match resin or gelcoat. Any ideas?

[FluidMotion]

toe in or toe out? when you are turning your props out should you have your motors toed in or out? I have heard that you always toe them in about 3/8" weather turning props in or out.

[WILDMAN]

If you're turning out, then the nosecones should be 1/8" further apart than the rears. Turn ing in is the opposite. The theory is that turning the props out will pull the backend apart and force the fronts in about an 1/8th" thereby making the cases parrallel.

[jpf091959]

Thanks, I will check mine as well.

[skydog]

TTT good stuff

[jpf091959]

both skydog and wildman have been a big help to me. Pick their brains.

[FluidMotion]

I agree they both helped me get my motion set up and running alot better than I exspected!

[jpf091959]

Fluid what size of Motion do you have and what engines?

I have 225's and want to move up to 300X or 300XS. Was wondering about the setup. Randy has a pair of clean looking 300PM's. I am considering them as well.

[skydog]

He has a 25' with 280s on her!! He is running some GREAT NUMBERS to buddy!!

Skydog

[FluidMotion]

thanks for the compliment matt. I like the 280s I have we had a poker run this week end here in sc and I saw alot of 300x and 300xs on skaters and other tunnels they run great but in my opinion and from what I saw they cant accelerate with the 280s! Im sure someone is going to call me on this but from what ive seen the 280s pull away from 40mph on and dont look back ,14 3/4x32 at 8100rpm is the way to go:D

[jpf091959]

Yea, I agree the 280's are great for all out performance, but I boat on the Columbia and am around docks all the time. It is nice to be able to bump it in and out of gear. The current can be fast 5mph at times so starting the motors in gear is a pain.

Hey I finally took Randy's advice and mounted my 3.0L to the transom. There was a big difference in the way the boat handled. First time out I hit 88 mph, which is the same as being set back 6" Remember I only have 225 Optimax's. The water pressure remained pegged the whole time and it comes outof the hole better, not sure what that is about. I need to raise them another 1/2"-3/4" and call it good. Still interested in some 300XS's.

[skydog]

thanks for the compliment matt. I like the 280s I have we had a poker run this week end here in sc and I saw alot of 300x and 300xs on skaters and other tunnels they run great but in my opinion and from what I saw they cant accelerate with the 280s! Im sure someone is going to call me on this but from what ive seen the 280s pull away from 40mph on and dont look back ,14 3/4x32 at 8100rpm is the way to go:D


HA HA 280s RULE!!!:iagree::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[jpf091959]

Yea, yea, yea. I am new to this outboard thing and am learning. I do like though. Previously I have a single big block with nitrous, water and alcohol injection and I was always adjusting, jets or timing or something, not to mention filling the nitrous bottle etc. These outboards just start and run great all the time. Now I just need more speed. I am pretty well maxed out with 225's.

[WILDMAN]

I may sell the 300 Promaxs off my 25 Liberator.

[jpf091959]

Randy thanks. We have talked about those a while back. I was really hoping for offshores. Who know those. I took your advice and mounted my 3.0's to the transom, the boat settled down but I still have porpoising. I have now hit 90 mph. I think that might be it.

[skydog]

90 MPH with 225!! SWEEEEET!!!!! :) :) :)

Skydog

[eli]

if your boat wags the tail your toe out is to much bring it in ,thanks .

[jpf091959]

Thank Eli, the porpoising doesn't every stop and turns into a side to side thing. Maybe I am just a puss but I have it wide open. I play with the trim.

I think I will check the toe. How much toe should I have ~1/4" - 1/2" in??

[skydog]

You turning props in or out? You never said it rocked side to side that it should not do!!

Skydog P.S. If you are turning out set at zero.

[FluidMotion]

I agree I turn mine out and have them heads up with no toe!

[WILDMAN]

I set the front 1/8th" closer in the front if you're turning in, and 1/8th" further apart if you're turning out.

[jpf091959]

Thanks I am turning them out. So I will give that a try. Have you done anything with 4-blade props?

[WILDMAN]

Actually, the 4 blade Bravos with vent holes work good. Top end may be a little less though.