Drag racing-What kind of budget does it take??

[LaserModVee]

Quoting Dan Agnew from another thread, this got me thinking-

just think how bad you would be lake racing with a 150,000.00 budget and a outboard hot boat


Just out of curiosity, what kind of budget would it take to be competitive in outboard drag racing? I know nothing about outboard drag racing, I grew up drag racing on the pavement. I am guessing it is similar with cars, where the money needed increases as you step up in speed and class. With cars, we have so many more moving parts, so I see more money going out when racing cars. I am on the right track?

What would be an average weekend or season $$$ for bracket racing all the way to unlimited, or whatever the top outboard class is?


Thanks,
Brian

[JTS Racing]

It's all in what you want and what your budget can afford. Do you want something that will run or something that will run and win a best of show with wild paint ect? Standard trailer or enclosed? I know guys that bracket race with Ally lake boats and probably spend around $1000-1500 per year. Speed cost money. The faster you go, the more you tear up, the more you WILL spend.

If you live close to a bracket event you can get out as cheap as $100 for some entries, up to around $250 for some of the larger orgs. If you have to do a lot of travel, well depending on how much you like to eat and how far you got to go, it can cost you over $1000 per weekend.

But hey, its only money:D

[Racemore]

My bud Jack at Full Throttle Powerboats runs Unlimited and it can get expensive because to be successfull the name of the class pretty much says it,Unlimited! Logan and Carver run Nitro,Carver melts powerheads pretty regular at 25,000 a rattle,so I was told.Marty's National Champ but seems to keep it together a little more with conservation,like step it up when ya have to,like when he has to run Caver because he throws all the logs on the fire every time.That leads to if it don't blow it's damn sure gona go!! Jack runs a V8 OMC,gas and nitrous,it's more dependable but is still expensive if he pushes it hard.
These guys have to go though the motors be for they go to next race along with the crew,tow and support vehicles,travel and hotel expence and with out major sponsers like other motorsports.
As you back down in class it become less expensive and more affordable but all the other expence is still there.That is why Bracket racing is popular and the guys that run class don't like it. They don't want to spend all that money and run someone with a $15,000 rig.It's my Opinion that Drag needs a class like SuperSport that would allow an even chance for all who want to race. :cool: Still drag is nothing like the expence of Offshore racing,it's all in if you can afford to play the game as to which game you can play.I have to play cards.:D :cool:

[Racemore]

I want to drive the boat in you avatar,maybe it's fast enough!:D :cool:

[JTS Racing]

That's a head on shot of a launch of Greg Tedesco in the TFH "Loose Cannon". Datz one bad ride!!!!:cool:


Oh yea,,,,,,now ya want to talk race expense? Got any idea what these guys spend? ;)

[LaserModVee]

I think I have a better grasp on what the TFH guy's budgets, which equals mega -bucks, like the car guys, John Force, etc. Way out of touch.

I like the idea of a Supersport class, which would give budget racers a level playing field.
All forms of racing has the problem of the rich team always winning. The Supersport idea would give the rich team a challenge from the backyard boys.

I would like to see a "Real World" class, or "Weekend Warrior" heads up class, where you would have displacement limitations, no power adders, (NO2, turbo, supercharging), pump gas, etc. that had a $3000 powerhead claimer rule. Maybe my figure is too high or too low on the claimer, but this rule would most certainly keep costs way down.
I know if you smoke the field this weekend with your mild and cheap 2.4 or 2.5, I will be doing the same to you next weekend with your motor. You better not get too fancy with your porting, because I am measuring and writing a book on how you made power.

What do you guys think?
I bracket race a car, that's fun, but I like heads up racing. I found a version of what I explained above, called "Cheap Street". I was planning on running a couple of races in that class, but my chassis is too modified. So back to bracket racing. :rolleyes:

[Racemore]

Yea,Loose Cannon,bad ass.I've always been a fan of top fuel hydros.Eddie Hill,229mph in a open boat,The man.

How Much? Between John Force and Kenny Bernstien's budget they could stake all the Hydros running.They don't have nothing on DEI,Hendrck,Childress and those guys though.;)

[Racemore]

The only problem with the claimer rule is you get guys who will keep pouring more and more money in there motors untill they are the top finishers and they won't claim anothers motor because they don't want the other guy to return the favor.Then if someone wants to claim one that guy just refuses and gets DQed. It happens in late model racing all the time.:cool:

[LaserModVee]

If you keep the legal modifications down to a minimum, like bolt ons, etc. would that make it work?

I wouldn't think twice about claiming a motor. I would also keep in mind that someone is going to do the same to me next week. That is fine, because I will know exactly what to build in order to run with that motor, not to mention, I'll have money in my pocket to go do it with.

Maybe there should be a stiffer penalty for refusal. What about DQ and suspension from the class for the year? Major loss of points?

Sure people's feeling get hurt, but why run the class knowing that rule exists and then get pissed off when someone uses the rule?

Just some thoughts.

[Racemore]

That all sounds good but it is still alot of variables to deal with. I think the sealed powerhead like Supersport with low water pickups allowed to protect bowout situations is still the best.
The best example is SS Joe racing his first SS race winning 2 heats.Although he leased a good boat from Jack it shows how close the competion is.The anybody can win senario will always draw competitors.It would take a litle time to figure the weight,boat type and power rules but the rest is set up and props. maybe 150 hp like SS because it is a model that all the companys make.Well got go, back in a while.:cool: ;)

[JTS Racing]

The average budget for a Nascar team is 12 million + a year. Not sure of the NHRA guys, but if you don't crash or waste too many engines you can run a TAH or TFH for around 500,000 + a year. Thats race expenses not the build up cost!

Sadly you will never be able to put together a heads up, grass roots, race system and keep it fair. Money rules..period! Even if you manage to get a great tech system to try and keep it fair, all the inspections and eventual bitching and complaining will take the fun out of it. ODBA has got a grip on class racing and doing a damn good job at it, but still have their share of problems. Brackets is the only way a person can race on a restricted budget or if you just want to get out a few weekends a year and have some fun. You can run a $50,000 boat against a $5,000. If you lose, its your fault. No complaining or wondering if the other guy is cheating, or bending the rules to his favor.

I give up tourny fishing to do this racing stuff. Found out that racing is cheaper than fishing. More relaxing and the folks at the events are great. Wanna have sum fun???? Come on!!:cool:

[LaserModVee]

Thanks for the insight guys.

Racemore couldn't be more correct when he says the "sealed motor" idea would work best. The constant tech-ing and bitching from other competitors will suck the life and fun from any form of racing.
I like the SS idea the best overall, just thought I would throw some ideas around for conversation.

As far as racing budgets go in general. NASCAR does not even begin to compare to open wheel racing. Especially, Formula One. 12 million a year is a racer's salary! And that isn't the cream of the crop either! Hell, Michael Schumacher is rumored to be making an excess of $40M per year. Ferrari has a $284.35 million team budget. McLaren and Williams run around $275 million and $192.95 million.

Guess who wins championships? Guess who almost every race? Ferrari $$$$$$

The funny thing about this, and I know you NASCAR guys won't understand this one, there is no "Winston Million" in F1, in fact, there is no prize money whatsoever in F1 racing!!! The podium finishers and the winning manufacturer get a shiny trophy.


$$$$$ MAKES-THE-WORLD-GO-ROUND!!!!

Well, at least, it wins races.

[Liqui-Fly]

I'm thinking I'd like to come down to Florida once a year for a vaction and whoop all yo asses in Super Sport on the weekend and spend the rest of the week at Disney. Can I get a boat for 4 days?

David

[us1ss]

Fly, Jack is trying a idea out right now. Lease a ready to race package for the season for a certain amount of money. It is a trial thing and at the end of the year he will know if it will work for more boats. I won't go in to any figures but if Joe or Jack want to tell they can. I would venture to say if this works out Jack will have more boats available for next season. I will say, it isn't that expensive to own your own rig, but if your not sure you want to race for more than a season it would be a great way to get your feet wet in a very competitive boat and not have to worry about selling it if you don't like it.
Take my advice if you race with us you will love it. Danny is a genius, this is the best racing available anywhere. Come and join us, you wont regret it.

[Liqui-Fly]

I always poike around to see if I can raise any interest in the Northeast but it's been tough finding any interest. I wouldn't have any problems buying and running an old rig is I could race 4 or 5 times a year but the required travel would make it impossible for me right now.

David

[us1ss]

Jack owes me a fortune if that's the case. How much should he be giving me per race? 9 wins and 1 second so far this year.
You need to pay up Jack!

[JTS Racing]

Hazn't ya been keeping up? Uz can do anythang ya want if ya got da $$$$$;) Mesa even bet ya get ta keep the bote. Dealerz around hur do it all da time. Take tha number of dayz ya wantz it and divide it into tha stickered price......Thar...daily lease!!:D :D :)

Besidez, tha weather is warm in da south. Ya wouldn't be able to standz being in da sun long enough to enjoyz it..... :p


All seriousness aside,,,,I use to lease my tourny boats. Contract was to pay 25% of dealer net plus any damage done to the rig. At the end of the season I had the choice of returning, buying, or selling it, and I got to keep any additional. Wow...leased race boats...alright!!!

[Racemore]

I think Jack is gona pay ya back when he gets the the new mota on the new rig.hehe Ya know it's killin him,you up there all alone.Thats why he put Joe on ya ass,to see if he can find a weak spot.Gota hand it to Joe,he's hangin pretty tough.You got in his mind through his mirror and he lost his grip or you would have another second.:) Of course it makes it easeir when ya draw the pole so many times,like it's the only name in the hat.:D

What do you think about Super Sport Drag? Probably a stupid question since your ahead at the first turn 95% of the time but the same rules but a low water pickup, or a transom mount pickup to keep the manufacture stock in place.That is if you could escape blowout with out a nosecone. :cool:

Everybody that had a SSboat could race the closest circle or drag race. :D " The NSSRA " ;) :cool:

[us1ss]

Yea I never expected to win both qualifying heats on Saturday, I won the first one easy but, the second one I had to come out of the 8 slot. I came out of the first turn and was in 2nd with Joe in front of me. I was gonna just hang there and still have the pole for the final on Sunday but, I saw Joe bobble a little in the turn and I thought let's see what happens if I put the heat on him. Joe was watching me more than he was watching his turns and he hooked a little bit to much and I got him. He didn't make the same mistake Sunday when Jack was all over him so he learned from his mistake and will be much tuffer next time I try to get around him. Joe did a great job and I'm happy to have him as my team mate out of the Full Throttle shop. He has already put a bullseye on himself it's just not as big as mine, but it's growing every race. If you want to win in SuperSport you are going to have to beat the dogs....................... Blackdog and the Pimp dog

[BLACKBIRD]

hmmmmmmm!!!:D

[joey_r]

I guess thats why I like you Fla. guys that consider themselves dogs instead of gators. My roots are from the University of Ga. and Gator meat is a favorite of the Ga. Bulldogs. Go all you Dogs!!!!

[Fl Boy in ILL]

Laser,

THis year I am going to run 2 boats in bracket drags out of my own pocket. As far as cost well both boats are paid for, a 2001 Allison Super Sport Model2000 with a Merc 280 SS price in the 35K range, the other boat is a LASER LTV raceboat 1983 with a Mariner Mag III 150 that I have about 3500 tied up in and hopefully they will BOTH be competitive. I can't wiat to spank somebody in the 13 sec bracket with my 3500 rig against their 20-40K rig. My son will drive the LTV and the Ally is mine. I am not doing this to make any money I'm doing cause I love to race and my family will be together, my son is 17 and before long he will be out on his own doing his own thing I will get another couple of summers with us being together. Brackets in my opinion is the place to go to drag that doesn't require the cubic $$$s to have a chance to win. If you need any info on how you could get started let me know.

Rick

[KG4]

I totaly agree with you Rick.I love bracket racing everybody has the same chance to win.As for a top fuel dragster budget its around 12 million a year.I saw a show on it once and they said it averages to $5000.00 for a 4 second run.

[LaserModVee]

Thank you for the good info!

My Dad drag raced cars all his life, so I grew up around it and have it in my blood. Two months after I turned 16, he and I went to the dragstrip so I could run in the Highschool Nationals. From that point on we became the best of buddies turning wrenches together and him teaching me everything he knows about cars and racing.

I am 27 years old and he lives about ten miles away. I still have the same car I raced 11 years ago, and I still race it today. He is still a huge part of the car and my bracket racing. Although lately, I haven't been racing due to a blown motor. Anyway, he and I both have Laser LTV's, and I was trying to think of ways to get us both racing. This might be the way to do it.

[Fl Boy in ILL]

Brian,

Your chance could be next weekend, there is a IHBA/SLDBA race in St Louis, bring both of the LTV's. If that doesn't work the following weekend there is a KDBA race on Ky Lake that we will go to also, at St Louis there is several of us from ILL going Sam Baker is bringing hi boat along with quite a few other from this area. Give me a call and I'd be happy to help ya if I can

815-433-6192
conklin@theramp.net

If you call during the day tommorow better try the cell we will be out in the river 815-252-6002

Rick

[Jay Smith]

Brian,
I have been out of the driving end of the sport since 1995 but by being a motor builder and sponser to 4 teams in ODBA in the now and the past I can give you an idea. A good hull is around $15,000, powerhead $15,000 ( you need 2 ) 2 gear cases at $2,000 a piece at least 2 worked props at $ 600 a pop, helmet $200, life jacket $350 that would just get you to the races. Most of the Super Stock motors will "live" with one set of rings for 1/2 the season before freshing up ( rings $300 ) a set +labor to install and if the tuner is on top of his game with the tune no stuck pistons. Along with the tune come the expense of a weather station and a Merc tester to set the duration of the injectors ( To move the curve )$ 2000... That is not including ODBA yearly fee ( first race ) and the expense of entree fees, oil prices , and fuel they make you buy at the races . I think one of my drivers told me the first race of the season in one class was close to $ 500 and reduced there on because the yearly fee was only once a year.

The things I quoted was for a Super Stock boat with low compression and relative good life span. The modified motors with over 200# compression and turning over 10700 rpms the run time and cost to modify is quite a bit higher with MUCH lower life span . And the unlimited boat on NOS is MUCH more expensive due to the fuel costs and the extreme short live time of a NOS motor...

Maybe that has answered some of your questions, with the money spent VS the possibility of money won it is like most all racing a NO WIN deal, most is done for the love of the sport. With the lack of sponsership available in outboard drag racing ( that I have seen ) and even the movement of the large tobacco, beer, tool , ect companys from even NHRA to NASCAR this the trend ( I see ) and apparently the way of the future. If your not going round and round in a restricter plate car your doomed for any kind of BIG money endorcemenst.

Again just my opinion and the way I have seen it heading !

Jay @ JSRE

[crazy horse]

Hell it's all expensive I have a buddy that has more into a racing sloop,( Thats a sail boat guys?)Than I have in my house. And it was a BORING ride I guess ya gotta really work that thing to get it on a plane. Lake Huron was kinda calm at the time.

[Liquid]

Speed is limited, only in direct proportion to the depth of ones pockets.

[Racemore]

Liquid,true,except you can't buy talent or balls.The degree of each equals the amount of Killer Instinct and that with good hardware makes the Winner.;) :cool:

[BLACKBIRD]

this is what makes Super Sport racing so great. most all racing classes you 1st goal is to make your boat go faster than anyone else, and if you have the money than this can be accomplished. In SS this is also a good goal to start with but it becomes a secondary goal very quickly. mike muldrow had the fastest SS boat last year, but he had to take the time to learn to harness this asset to be able to win with it. This year many of the other boats have begun to achieve the speed that mike did. now that becomes a secondary issue and the primary issue is to become a better driver than your opponent. This is what "racing " means.

[Liquid]

Yes, i totally agree with the last 2 posts, but, the question was what kind of budjet does it take to drag race, if we all didnt have the killer instincs to win we would be on a couch insted of out in the shop trying to get that last 1/2 sec off our 1/4 mile times.

Enough said Jim