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blkmtrfan
10-09-2007, 11:09 AM
Holy cow, Yamaha is making their new 300hp from the 350hp V8:

http://www.yamaha-motor-europe.com/corporate/latest_news/news_detail.jsp?Component=tcm:26-218095&ComponentTemplate=tcm:26-11949-32

http://www.yamaha-motor-europe.com/Images/F300-STU-01_th_tcm26-218117.jpg



Yamaha unveils its new F300 at Genoa Boat Show
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 510px" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 align=right><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=580>
<TABLE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px" align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD>http://www.yamaha-motor-europe.com/Images/F300-STU-01_th_tcm26-218117.jpg (javascript:DetectImageSize('/Images/F300-STU-01_tcm26-218116.jpg',279,372))</TD></TR><TR><TD class=caption>F300 unveiled at Genoa Boat Show</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
</TD></TR><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD>http://www.yamaha-motor-europe.com/Images/F300-EXT-01_th_tcm26-218119.jpg (javascript:DetectImageSize('/Images/F300-EXT-01_tcm26-218118.jpg',800,534))</TD></TR><TR><TD class=caption>Offshore boats have another new V8 hero!</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Offshore boats have another new V8 hero!

Following hard on the heels of the ‘world-first’ launch of the V8-powered F350 earlier this year, Yamaha has announced the arrival of yet another supremely powerful 4-stroke outboard in the stylish shape of the new F300.
The magnificent F350 and F300, the latter being shown for the first time at the Genoa boat show, are not only the most powerful 4-stroke outboards ever created, but also the first-ever 4-stroke V8 units. Designed primarily to satisfy the growing demand for light, compact, space-saving engines to power the larger breed of offshore boats, until now the usual territory of inboard and sterndrive units, these advanced powerhouses from Yamaha have already created huge interest and are making a big impact on the choice of power for a great number of boats around the world.
The F300 has been introduced especially to suit the significant number of boats with a maximum power limit of 300 or 600 horsepower, for which the massive torque of the F350 may simply be too powerful. Available for single or twin installation, the F300 ‘bridges the gap’ perfectly for owners of these boats and offers them the very latest technology and sophisticated electronic control systems that are such impressive features of this advanced new V8-engined series from Yamaha.
New levels of reliability, even by Yamaha’s advanced standards, are built into these new engines. Like its F350 big brother, the F300 features the most advanced 4-stroke technology ever to hit the water, including an innovative in-bankTM exhaust system which allows the engine - despite its phenomenal power - to be very compact in shape and design, Variable Camshaft Timing, dimpled outer cylinder sleeves to reduce oil consumption and ionic combustion sensors that constantly monitor combustion conditions and adjust spark timing.
The command and control systems of the F300 are very sophisticated indeed, with Yamaha’s digital electronic control system masterminding everything from the smooth, easy ‘fly-by-wire’ electronic throttle and shift controls to the automatic multi-engine synchronisation and the leading-edge package of driver information provided by Yamaha’s new line-up of Digital Network Gauges.
Durability too, is further improved by a unique protection package that has no equal in outboard history. The new Enhanced Ultimate Corrosion Protection System of the F300, like the F350, includes additional sacrificial anodes, new-generation materials technology for the head gaskets and a very innovative internal paint process – not to mention the multi-coating external paint treatments that are renowned for keeping Yamaha engines looking so clean and smart throughout their long lives of service.
All in all, a remarkable new V8-powered 4-stroke outboard from Yamaha, that is sure to quickly become another hero to owners of offshore boats.

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sundancekid
10-10-2007, 12:17 PM
Emphasis on the cow part, lol! Why would they create a 820 lb 300 when Merc has a 510 and 640 lb 300, Suzuki a 610 lb 300 and now BRP with a 525 lb 300? I'm sure it didn't cost much to produce, but I would expect more from Yamaha...if they tweaked the F250 to 300, then they would have something!

1BadAction
10-10-2007, 01:56 PM
if they tweaked the F250 to 300, then they would have something!they would need to make a real 250 first :rolleyes:

congrats to yamaha on their first REAL 300 http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif


for which the massive torque of the F350 may simply be too powerful

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA thats the biggest load of BS i've heard since 150istoomuch said he ran 90mph at the rally!

blkmtrfan
10-10-2007, 03:18 PM
Funny stuff Jim :D


Massive Torque? or Massive Weight?

Which is more likely to rip the transom off, me thinks weight ;)

Rusrog
10-10-2007, 07:41 PM
The F-series motors were not designed to compete with the 2-strokes they were designed to compete with the Verado... Whose ass it should kick with out much trouble. I didn't think they would go for a 300 after teh release of the 350 but they didn't ask me sooooo.

Just compare apples to apples. the Verado is just as heavy and it has proven to not be much of a performer. But then... neither one was designed to be a bass boat motor. More of a tug boat motor...

Russ

VectorPat
10-10-2007, 08:04 PM
I agree that it is very large for 300hp compared to its competition, but it has loads of torgue which it what it is designed for. As for the F250 I would love to see a real world test against the verado and etec. I think it would surprise everyone.

NNT
10-10-2007, 09:55 PM
I agree that it is very large for 300hp compared to its competition, but it has loads of torgue which it what it is designed for. As for the F250 I would love to see a real world test against the verado and etec. I think it would surprise everyone.

Where are the "loads of torque" specs?

1BadAction
10-11-2007, 08:45 AM
The F-series motors were not designed to compete with the 2-strokes they were designed to compete with the Verado... Whose ass it should kick with out much trouble. I didn't think they would go for a 300 after teh release of the 350 but they didn't ask me sooooo.

Just compare apples to apples. the Verado is just as heavy and it has proven to not be much of a performer. But then... neither one was designed to be a bass boat motor. More of a tug boat motor...

Russ

BWAHAHAHAHA yea, only in your dream land is 615lbs the same as 850. "whos ass it should kick" hahaha. more of your dream land stuff, wake up dude, its just another car motor turned on its end. If all these other companies would start designing OUTBOARDS instead of slapping some poorly engineered conglomeration of car parts together, they might have something. then again, that would require them to care about the market instead of the bottom dollar. I'm sure you would see that if you werent so blinded with merc hatred. :rolleyes:

ps- still waiting on pics of "all those broken pivot mounts" you guys always talk about. ROFLMAO

Rusrog
10-11-2007, 09:02 AM
BWAHAHAHAHA yea, only in your dream land is 615lbs the same as 850. "whos ass it should kick" hahaha. more of your dream land stuff, wake up dude, its just another car motor turned on its end. If all these other companies would start designing OUTBOARDS instead of slapping some poorly engineered conglomeration of car parts together, they might have something. then again, that would require them to care about the market instead of the bottom dollar. I'm sure you would see that if you werent so blinded with merc hatred. :rolleyes:

ps- still waiting on pics of "all those broken pivot mounts" you guys always talk about. ROFLMAO


It's not that I hate Mercree... I think they make a fine 2stroke and I still think the 2.5 series engines are as fine a motor as has been built. My problem is with their management and their pricing. It's gone ridiculous and they have forgotten what got them to the top.

And I'll admit that I made a mistake on the weight of the Merc. I thought the Verado was closer to 700#'s. I don't know everything yet.. But maybe someday I'll be like you. I can only hope not.

What I will say is that if I'm going offshore in a big boat... And I've got the option of a 158cid blown in-line six or a 32? V-8... Guess what I want to rely on. Yeah... they essentially did stand a truck motor on end. I bet it works like a champ too. The 350 Yamaha was designed for the guy who wants to dump one of his three 250's and still not lose any power. Do the math. It works out. The release of the 300 is a bit mystery to me but then again, that's not my type of motor and it's not designed for my type of boat so in all reality, it just doesn't matter either way.

1BadAction
10-11-2007, 09:10 AM
I don't know everything yet.. But maybe someday I'll be like you. I try.

If you wanna be like me just drink a load of Jagermeister, tell people the bold ass truth even if it pisses them off, and get the sand out of your pussy. I can even make you a certificate of achievement or something. http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Astro
10-11-2007, 09:59 AM
I try.

I can even make you a certificate of achievement or something. http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif


Now thats going the extra mile:D :D

baja200merk
10-11-2007, 10:10 AM
Designed primarily to satisfy the growing demand for light, compact, space-saving engines

the author of that article must do standup on is down time :eek: :eek: :rolleyes:

i guess yamaha truley gave up on the 3.3 2stroke 250/300s Pussies

Rusrog
10-11-2007, 01:24 PM
I can even make you a certificate of achievement or something. http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Cool. Make me one up so I can have something to hang in the back of the urinal. I'll give it it's due respect. Be sure and sign it for me.

Russ

NNT
10-11-2007, 05:14 PM
http://i24.tinypic.com/2h6br6s.jpg

baja200merk
10-12-2007, 12:34 AM
http://i24.tinypic.com/2h6br6s.jpg

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: I thought that was comin out next year :eek: :eek:

kevin :D

Rusrog
10-12-2007, 08:46 AM
guys are brainwashed...

Walk into the light and learn to do something outside of the norm. I realize that ya'll started out as black sheep but now you just sound like sheep... BAAAAAA...

Go buy an OMC, or a Yamaha, or even a Suzuki and make it run. It's lots more fun. But there ain't no manuals and you actually have to think on your own... It could be tough.

Oh yeah... Another thing.

Ya'll are bashing on a line of motors that, if you actually have and like hot rod boats, you would never want anyway. The Yamaha was never designed, intended nor marketed as a hot rod. You guys get that, right????

Russ

1BadAction
10-12-2007, 09:27 AM
yep, thats it, we dont think because we have mercs. good one man, personal attacks are real mature. then again if you cant come up with real info I guess thats what you have to hang on.

sho305
10-12-2007, 12:26 PM
Someone needs to take a 350 mag I/O checkmate or similar, maybe a 20' or so, and then see how fast it goes converted to this mule 350. That would be a fair performance test for its market I would think. There is the perfect boat here local an old 20' 'mate with the 350 but no outdrive....maybe could be had cheap but I bet that 350 OB is not cheap. And I suppose you would have to build a * of a transom into it but think of all the storage room under the rear deck you would have....:)

WILDMAN
10-12-2007, 12:47 PM
One of my customers just told me that he read a boat test where they had the 350 Yamaha on a 24ft center console fishing boat. Top speed was 50! What a turd.

stan merck
10-12-2007, 01:22 PM
2 of those turds can push a 31 Contender center console 68 mph though. I agree, I dont understand detuning it to 300 hp. If a boat can handle it as a 300 it surely can be rerated to take it as a 350.

stan merck
10-12-2007, 01:41 PM
The reason why people want 4 strokes is the oil savings. When you look at a boat ran all day long saltwater trolling the savings can add up. Some triple eng boats burn upwards of 210 gallons a day. Thats alot of 2 stroke oil. The eng weight doesnt hurt big boats and most of them dont care if it accelerates slower or is a couple mph slower at wot. They want something dependable and 4 strokes overall are still more dependable than direct injected 2 strokes. To me both eng designs have their place and should be available to consumers.

AwesomeBullet
10-12-2007, 01:41 PM
Wildman, I have that article sitting at home in my "reading room"...That was my first thought too, that it only pushed the boat to barely 50mph, and the boat is normally set up with twin 150's....You'd think it woulda been a bit faster. But then again, if my memory is working correctly, it was a Grady White that they did it on, which are not the lightest boats out there. Time will tell, but myself, if I had a large offshore rig, with say trip 225's or 250's, I'd rather have the trips instead of twin 350's....With twim 350's, if one goes down, you might get on plane, but it will be a long ride home. With trips, if one goes down, you will still get home at a good pace. I know when I took a demo on the 35 Scarab with trip 250s, we shut one motor down and trimmed it out of the water. Holeshot was only a little more sluggish and she only lost 5mph on the top end...I was impressed! Wouldn't have done that with twin 350's, that's for sure.

1BadAction
10-12-2007, 01:48 PM
if the engine is designed for its intended purpose, trips dock and act like twins anyways. Most people are too damn ignorant and hard headed to look at the actual FEATURES of the engine so they wouldnt realize that. On a big hull with twins or more, shadow technology and power steering is the best thing since sliced bread. :D we seen them dock a quad verado powered yellowfin at the miami boat show like it was 16'er.

Rusrog
10-12-2007, 03:26 PM
yep, thats it, we dont think because we have mercs. good one man, personal attacks are real mature. then again if you cant come up with real info I guess thats what you have to hang on.

Uuuuuh. OK. Sorry if you took that as an attack.

I'll dump this subject as I am obviously outgunned by your superior knowledge on the subject of tug boat motors.

I'm going back to the garage to work on my stuff... It's much more interesting than this.

Russ

1BadAction
10-12-2007, 03:28 PM
:rolleyes:

NNT
10-12-2007, 05:50 PM
Ya see folks, thats why ya don't sleep with your sister, ya get belligerent waterhead babies like ole Russ

JUST-IN-TIME
10-12-2007, 07:02 PM
i think it is about the HP ratings on boats
some are 300HP and 600HP
the 350 would not make it

only 300 motors are

suki 4 stroke
yami 4 stroke
BRP 2 stroke
Verado 4 stroke
300xs 2 stroke
no more 300HPDI

i like the verdo, straight six and blown!

150aintenuff
10-13-2007, 10:17 AM
the discontinuance of the HPID 300 and the release of this POS is the writing on the wall for yamaha in the big engine department..... :(

Rusrog
10-14-2007, 09:11 AM
Ya see folks, thats why ya don't sleep with your sister, ya get belligerent waterhead babies like ole Russ

That was your sister I was sleeping with but I'm through with that sooooo...

What's your wife look like? Maybe she's tired of riding in a Boston Whaler and would like to go for a ride in a fast Allison. LOL!

Russ

NNT
10-14-2007, 09:19 AM
That was your sister I was sleeping with but I'm through with that sooooo...

What's your wife look like? Maybe she's tired of riding in a Boston Whaler and would like to go for a ride in a fast Allison. LOL!

Russ

Sorry Russ she doesn't do charity work :D

Orbit`
10-14-2007, 08:53 PM
Sorry Russ she doesn't do charity work :D

hahaha comedy gold

sundancekid
10-22-2007, 11:34 AM
Back to the subject at hand, I think this motor will have it's place on some boats, but it is far too heavy to work effectively on a 27ish center console where a pair of 300s would work effectively. As for it outrunning a 300 Verado, that's a pretty good pipe dream, the 300Vs already keep up with the 350s while burning less fuel!

Mr. Demeanor
10-24-2007, 08:00 AM
I wouldnt be suprised if both the 300 and 350 make about 325hp. Same exact motor with different stickers costs them little.

sho305
10-24-2007, 11:15 AM
One would think an American company would have stuck a huge auto engine on a leg for a BIG outboard....and an Asian company would have engineered a smaller high tech supercharged/intercooled and more complex powerhead for the same use.

1BadAction
10-24-2007, 11:22 AM
One would think an American company would have stuck a huge auto engine on a leg for a BIG outboard....and an Asian company would have engineered a smaller high tech supercharged/intercooled and more complex powerhead for the same use.

yea, because DOHC and superchargers automatically make something high-tech, asians are superior, americans are so stupid and don't know how to engineer anything correctly. :rolleyes:

sho305
10-24-2007, 12:08 PM
lol...we can engineer anything, so long as it makes us money in this quarter. That is our problem IMO...stuck in the rocking chair most of the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offenhauser
"The Oldsmobile quad-four engine bears an uncanny resemblance to the Offenhauser unit, once the plastic covers are removed and it's bolted up to a rear wheel drive transmission."
"From 1934 through 1960 the Offenhauser engine dominated American open wheel racing, winning the Indianapolis 500 24 times."
Oops:) , the idea came from elsewhere though: "After repairing the 1913 Peugeot Grand Prix car which was the state of the art at the time, Miller and his employees, Leo Goosen and Fred Offenhauser designed the Miller racing engine from the Peugeot 4 cylinder, double overhead camshaft, 4 valves per cylinder layout. This began a thoroughbred line of race motors that dominated American racing well into the 1970s."

I had a Quad4 and it ran really well, but I got tired of putting head gaskets on it every 50K. It might have been able to save the Fiero even. I got 31mpg highway with a junk 3 speed auto (no OD!) and it shifted at 7K, had 160hp with an auto and 180-190 for sticks....back in 1989. Almost 20yr later and what do you get for a 2.3L I4 today in a car similiar to a grand am? Yeah I hate to admit I owned one. Quad4 ran a lot like my SHO 3.0L, lots of power from 4K to 7K+ rpm making it very (fun &) drivable not just peaky. GM kind of seemed to kill it off though, all they had to do was fix the headgaskets and top end lubrication issues which they kind of did (and build a car worth a * for it). Back then nothing comparable without a turbo could touch it...or at least nothing American. I had around 130K on that car when I sold it....and I hit 7K rpm with it every day, it still ran/looked perfect. Lot of detail stuff fell apart on the car though, always was fixing something. My new car then was a 5.0 Mustang.:)

GM has made some impressive power out of pushrod V8s lately, have to give them that.

Oh I forgot this: "For the second year, every starter in the 2007 Indianapolis 500 will use a Honda V-8 engine."

stan merck
10-24-2007, 12:35 PM
Back to the subject at hand, I think this motor will have it's place on some boats, but it is far too heavy to work effectively on a 27ish center console where a pair of 300s would work effectively. As for it outrunning a 300 Verado, that's a pretty good pipe dream, the 300Vs already keep up with the 350s while burning less fuel!

Do you have any links to some comparisons between F350s and Verados?

1BadAction
10-24-2007, 01:04 PM
lately? the Gen 3 architecture has been in the hands of the public for at least 10 years. and the only reason the Gen 2 before it was done away with was emissions (which a stock mid 90's 330hp LT4 is a great engine for a truck with plenty of tq).

So, I can have a very light weight, strong, high HP, big flat TQ curve, excellent MPG pushrod engine, or a heavier, similar HP, peaky tq curve, worse gas mileage, OHC engine? I'll take the "old low tech pushrod" engine. oh yea, and those 60-90k miles timing belt changes are friggin awesome too, i guess thats to be expected when theres multiple FEET of belt/chain under there.

"we can engineer anything, so long as it makes us money in this quarter" And the Japs prove this better than anyone, time and time again. HP/L? no one cares when your little POS honduh 2.4 burns more fuel than a 427 vette and still makes 260hp less :rolleyes: but oh no, thats the buzz word that everyone uses, just like PEAK hp. fukkin sheep. these magazines and TV ads rant and rave about how great these things are, but 99% of the ones from 15 years ago are in the scrap pile. :rolleyes: remember the "domestic killer" toyota t100? yea, that one really worked out.

The quad4 was another emissions slob, little high revvers (although 7k aint that high) are always fighting EMISSIONS. which is one of the reasons that the HP of the 4 poppers hasn't went much higher than it was then. Is there a place for DOHC engines... of course, but im not racing in a displacement limited class, not spinning 8500rpm all day, and I dont live in some euro *** country that bases a tax on displacement, so i dont want one.

lets compare indy and f1 cars to street machines now, yea thats valid. the phrase "not enough tq to tear a wet paper bag" comes to mind...

Riverman
10-24-2007, 03:32 PM
That term "peak" is sneaking into everything lately. How useless is a 5 hp "peak" air compressor? A real 5 hp motor can't run on 110V, but sheepeople don't know the difference. Another one is surround sound systems, 400W per channel and the amp weighs 5 pounds. One of my 400W Crown amps is hard to carry alone.

NNT
10-24-2007, 06:13 PM
lets compare indy and f1 cars to street machines now, yea thats valid. the phrase "not enough tq to tear a wet paper bag" comes to mind...

I prefer the phrase "couldn't pull a greased string out of a cats ass" :D

stan merck
10-25-2007, 08:06 AM
Its all about RPM. What range is the eng going to run in and pick a design for that range. 2 valves and cam in the block works great for 4500 rpm and down, but above that OHC's advantages start to come in.

1BadAction
10-25-2007, 10:00 AM
I guess the redline in a Zo6 is 7200 just for looks. :rolleyes: another clueless one...

sho305
10-25-2007, 11:04 AM
I think the issue is many stock engines don't need the window area a 4 valve head can give, or they would make more power. In the late 80s there was no HP engines in normal cars, take a look at a competing Tempo for example that had less HP in a V6 though likely more TQ...but I bet you the Quad4 left it in the dust with better mpg every day. I wanted something I could pass with and get good mpg back then and it worked great. I could have looked for a Z24 I guess.:)

The Quad4 had a double roller chain that I replaced with the second head gasket at around 110K because the tensioner was near all the way out...it was streched and actually retarding the cams. That gave it more top end but with the auto it hurt the holeshot that was not great to start with <30mph. Ran better after that. Not that I am not saying it was a great motor, at the time it was impressive for a non-turbo. Yeah belts suck, the I4 I have now is getting close. The old chryco was easy to do though, the Ford (mazda?) I have now is a pita I've done one. How about that GM HO 3.4L...

Yes GM has had great V8s for a while and keeps getting better without 4V heads and all, impressive. They keep getting larger though, but they could run a supercharger like Ford instead I suppose. Ford gets good motors from someone else then stops making them like the SHO/yamaha, but do keep using the duratech V6 that Porshce designed for lack of replacement I bet. Ford is weak, just finally getting a 3.5L to market how slow could they be? I can't agree about Honda, they are likely the best common engine maker out there. They last and are very durable, and make the power.

Little motors can be fun in little cars, you get to really scream them more like a race car. However few I4s can make the beans like say a Honda S2000, so the turbos are the way to go IMO. The light 4cyl can help a small car handle better. I got rid of my Mustang 5.0 with a great running V8 and got a 2.0 turbo that was about as fast and AWD. I never drove the Mustang in the winter (hated that); the AWD I could rallycross every snow day. MPG was very close, the turbo was a hair better even with its low gearing. It's the only Asian car I kept for long and I much prefer US cars, but they had nothing to offer like this and still don't. And I still wish I had an AWD Turbo 4 to drive today, though I miss laying rubber like a rwd can. Only because I can really use awd here, and the only ones that can get reasonable mpg are turbo 4s or slow V6s.

I don't have the cash to waste on hot cars and gas right now or I might change my mind. However, a sport AWD car is WAY better to drive in the winter than any other type of AWD/4WD excepting maybe very expensive vehicles I would not know about like a BMW or MB/etc. Excepting deep snow you can dust anyone, its safer with far superior handling and feel, and you can drive it every day with mpg near that of a normal car and likely better than a V8 sport car. MPG is hard to get with any AWD/4WD. You can also holeshot anyone in the rain or snow. Too bad US makers can't produce such a capable car one can enjoy every day in the snow belt. (like if the new SRT4 had AWD)

1BadAction
10-25-2007, 12:18 PM
those "awesome" I4 engines are hogs, most of them are around 100lbs less than a 6+L GM V8- add a turbo/iron manifold and you are right there. Power? yea, dyno queen peak power maybe, my idea of power isnt 350hp and 200lb/ft of tq at 8000rpm. Like we say, HP SELLS cars, TQ moves them.

AWD- Outside of a track, if someone goes flying around in the snow or rain like a wannabe WRC driver, they are a fukkin idiot and deserve to wrap the car around a pole. AWD doesnt do a damn thing to get the car stopped. as for traction at the track, 2wds can pull the same 60' times, if not better than the equivalent AWD. Of course unless you do something idiotic like dumping the clutch at 6K with the awd. "like if the new SRT4 had AWD" LoL, it would be cool, but would just break sh1t quicker than it already does. then again, a 5.0 mustang is about the WORST example of what a rwd car will do in the ice, the thought of the suspension/weight balance alone makes me cringe.

outside of Suby and Mitsu, does anyone even make a turbo AWD car under $50k? Probably not, because they dont sell worth a damn. If it wasnt for WRC, i doubt those 2 would be made. GM makes MULTIPLE trucks and SUVs in 2wd or AWD, but the 2wds always out sell them 15-1. AWDs are nice in the snow (along with some ground clearance like a truck has), but not many people want something slower, more complicated, and more expensive to only have an advantage 20% of the year.

DOHC- i think its great for inline engines... but the benefit just isnt there for V's. Although, like stated above, in a performance car, why have a 2L I-4 when you can have a 6L or bigger V8 that is close to the same weight, doesnt make sense unless there is a constraint to a certain CID.

1BadAction
10-25-2007, 12:20 PM
Also, this site is still locking up when the % sign is put into the quick reply. what a pain in the ass...

stan merck
10-25-2007, 12:21 PM
I guess the redline in a Zo6 is 7200 just for looks. :rolleyes: another clueless one...

I didnt say it doesnt work above 4500. Nascar turns flat tappet cams past 9000, its just there are advantages of less friction and weight of valve train parts in the higher rpm ranges. I agree for a truck or suv I see no advantages to the 4 valve ohc V8s versus a regular old smallblock Chevy.

stan merck
10-25-2007, 12:36 PM
I will say if we are talking cars I will take regular old pushrod V8 rwd anyday over any 4 cyl, v6 turbo, blower, nitrous or whatever.

blkmtrfan
10-25-2007, 12:54 PM
GM makes MULTIPLE trucks and SUVs in 2wd or AWD, but the 2wds always out sell them 15-1. AWDs are nice in the snow (along with some ground clearance like a truck has), but not many people want something slower, more complicated, and more expensive to only have an advantage 20% of the year.

Jim, that my be true in Florida but not here up North ;)

sho305
10-25-2007, 12:59 PM
Torque? A turbo 4 will make plenty of torque, you should try one.

1BadAction
10-25-2007, 01:08 PM
I will say if we are talking cars I will take regular old pushrod V8 rwd anyday over any 4 cyl, v6 turbo, blower, nitrous or whatever.
:eek: and if we are talking 4s boats I'll take a DOHC one. (although id rather burn some dinosaurs). as for the cars/dohc hype media BS, its just that, HYPE.

other than bore spacing, and cylinder bank angle, A V8 gen III or IV has nothing the same as a GEN 1 SBC. Absolutely no comparison, even the firing order is different. A DOHC V engine is spinning 4 camshafts and one HUGE belt/chain, theres more parasitic drag internally than a cam in block, its been proven time and time again. when the GenIII was being developed in 1994, there was a OHC engine being developed right along side of it (similar to the LT5 v8 in the ZR1). GM couldnt get the HP AND Tq curves out of it like they could with a pushrod engine, even though the LT5 was a very exotic DOHC engine design. not to mention the OHC stuff is more expen$ive and not as good on fuel.

AWDs- they might sell up there, but the numbers for the country as a whole are about 15-1.

Torque? A turbo 4 will make plenty of torque, you should try one.
sure they will... a 2.0 at 16psi should make about the same as a 4.0L N/a engine. thats only 32psi to make the same as a stock 6L. ;) too bad a turbo that'll push 32 psi on a 4 popper wouldnt be effective for anything less than 4000rpm.

Hell, lets start a merc VS OMC debate since we are already off topic :D :p

sho305
10-25-2007, 01:20 PM
I'm not for ricers, and I like a good V8 too but....why does subie not put a 6.0 V8 in the WRX Sti? Would it sell as good as the GTO then?

You bet AWD sells here, compared to 4wd you hardly see a 2wd pickup/suv on the road here any time of the year except for cheap service trucks.

1BadAction
10-25-2007, 01:27 PM
I'm not for ricers, and I like a good V8 too but....why does subie not put a 6.0 V8 in the WRX Sti? Would it sell as good as the GTO then?

because, it would most likely be a DOHC and be bigger/weigh more than a cast iron big block. They also couldnt say "Its Turbooooddddd11!!!11" in their sales media. LOL.

sho305
10-25-2007, 05:03 PM
Engine weight:
http://wheeltalk.fancal.net/?p=634
http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/engineweights.html