This guy must think the internet is full of fools with 180K in their pocket

[Raceman]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Camaro-Mizfit-LS7-427-CID-KENNE-BELL-SUPERCHARGED-800RWHP_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6161QQihZ010QQitemZ200148871661QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW



Anyhow, this newbie e-bayer would have people believe that he's got 3 bids by 2 seperate bidders of over 150K on a re-skinned rust bucket with a hotrod motor. If anybody at E bay had any brains I'd report the auction, but they'd never figure out that the guy's got his buddies biddin' on his stuff. :rolleyes:

[HiLift]

A buck-eighty for an unfinished 30K car???:eek:
Gotta agree with you Norris, this guys looking for his retirement fund!!:rolleyes:

[The Big Al]

I like the callies rods??? (they don't make rods)

And the cheep eagle crankshaft! ???? (and their rods are junk also)

Sounds like a lot of BS to me!

[Blizz]

Compstar connecting rods are made by a Callies division.

[The Big Al]

Compstar connecting rods are made by a Callies division.

then why do they suggest and sell Oliver's?

[Fast Fred]

well i looked at the car thinkin the same way yous looked, from the pics, lookin at the list and the pics,seems to be inline with the list, all new sheet, tubs, rotisserie, Car looks clean, although the gaps are poor, is alot O'$$$$$$$$$
but for the dude in a suit that makes 300,000. ayear. he could never build any thing close for that 150, so is it worth that kinda green ?, maybe or is it as sour
as the grapes you say. guess it all depends on who you are and or what you can or can't do.

just cuzz you think you can means nothing.:cool:

[Blizz]

The same reason they sell more than 1 kind of aftermarket block people like choices. My point was that they make conn rods not that they recommend or don't recommend them.

[150aintenuff]

lets see a non numbers matching gen 1 with paint and a motor... can still buy that car for around 500.00 if ya look in the right spots.. paint is about 500.00.. and the motor to get 800 hp is about 4 K.... so # 1 it aint rare enough to be anything.... LS7's were NEVER put into Camaros and only about 5 ever made it into cars anyhow and all those were Chevelles... the rest were BOAT MOTORS!!! so that car is worth all of about 10K MAX!!!!!!! junk junk junk IMO.... now if it were a totally numbers matching factory car id say it was worth maybe 30 if in great condition never restored.... if its worth 150 i know someone in town that has 13 of these.... so does that mean he has over 1 million in value..... even though he bouthg and fixed all of them for less than 2500.00 TOTAL!!!

[Blizz]

It's got the new LS7 not the old one.

[Raceman]

Yeah, that's the all alum LS7, like goes in the new Z06 Corvette. Incidentally, it's pretty well an accepted fact in the GM collector car communinty that the OLD LS7 454 was never installed in a car sold to the public by GM. It was intended for the 1970 Corvette as a replacement for the L88 which was available in limited numbers for 67, 68 & 69. All the early LS7 amounted to was the second design L88, with the displacement increased from 427 to 454 and cast iron open chamber heads substituted for the alum. ones that were std. on all L88's. The brass wouldn't approve it in the car, so the motor was only offered to the public as a crate motor. There've been rumors of LS7 Corvette factory test mules, and I'm sure they existed, but supposedly were all destroyed and a documented one has never surfaced. The LS7 was never intended for production Chevelles, just as the 12 & 12.5 to one L88's were never offered in Chevelles or Camaros. For whatever reason, Chevy made the max Chevelle engines the LS6's and never even offered it in the Camaro.

[150aintenuff]

It's got the new LS7 not the old one.

even less value in it then... who cares..... if it aint old iron why bother.... if ya wanted new buy a Z06.. far better handeling and performance.....

[Blizz]

The same reason everybody else puts new power in thier cars nowadays. I'm not sayin this car is or isn't worth the money but you aint building it for chump change as you described. How much do you think Joe Rogan paid for his nowhere near original (Sick Fish) Cuda?

[150aintenuff]

The same reason everybody else puts new power in thier cars nowadays. I'm not sayin this car is or isn't worth the money but you aint building it for chump change as you described. How much do you think Joe Rogan paid for his nowhere near original (Sick Fish) Cuda?

i also didnt notice the new LS7 corvette mota either... i was thinking the BBC version... which ya can build for 4Kish if ya know where to look... even still a good wrecked donor car can go cheep if ya go to the right sources... so i gaurantee he aint in it more than 30K with all the mods and even then it aint worth it....... id give 10K MAX for it... especiall when there is a more rare ### matching car 20 miles form my home..... and i could get it for about 12K....

[150aintenuff]

The same reason everybody else puts new power in thier cars nowadays. I'm not sayin this car is or isn't worth the money but you aint building it for chump change as you described. How much do you think Joe Rogan paid for his nowhere near original (Sick Fish) Cuda?

as for the cuda WHO CARES... i know where an all original 426 hemi cuda sits as we speak... all stock in un restored near prestine condition..... that car is worth some coin, and the owner drives it nearly daily...

[Blizz]

LS7 crate MSRP is over 17 alone. My point is you cannot pay someonr to a resto like that (if it's done as described) for much less than what he is asking.Hell it's 6000 alone for the supercharger.

[150aintenuff]

LS7 crate MSRP is over 17 alone. My point is you cannot pay someonr to a resto like that (if it's done as described) for much less than what he is asking.Hell it's 6000 alone for the supercharger.

well lets see.. the difference between a 3000 paint job and a 40000 paint job is the sanding between coats and finish work and 99.9% of the people around cant tell the difference....... and why would ya buy new when you can find a wrecked Z06 for less than 10K and have the motor redone for a couple G's... and 6K for a supercharger.. your not looking in the right places.... a Quad rotor Whipple isnt even that much if you know the right sources....


that car could be done AS IT SITS even with the motor parts fr under 30K.... believe me....

[150aintenuff]

www.speedwaremotorsports.com

[150aintenuff]

www.speedwaremotorsports.com

[Blizz]

Problem is more and more people are starting to not care about #'s matching any more (not saying that's right either) it's just a fact.

[150aintenuff]

http://www.speedwaremotorsports.com/vehicles/


1967 convertible... 65K... in better shape than that car i gaurantee it... and even then 25K in paint could be down to 5K and nobody would know the difference since the color is a single color black...

[Fast Fred]

any who,would be cool to go for a BURN in it and shake it down. gots the vett suspension up front with the Alu case, she should Dance well.

worked on hundreds of vetts, the last good year for a Vett was 66.
Sting Ray:eek: :cool:

[Raceman]

worked on hundreds of vetts, the last good year for a Vett was 66.
Sting Ray:eek: :cool:

Actually, many Corvette nuts (including me) think the '67 Corvette is the finest Corvette ever made. '67 was supposed to be the first year of the new body style, inspired by the Maico Shark, but because of pre production problems with the new body it was put off until 1968. The '67 is thought of as the ultimate refinement of the mid year Corvettes (63 - 67). The 66 427/425's lag WAY behind the 67 427/435's in value, and light years behind the '67 L88's which are now million plus dollar cars if one of the original 20 built ever changed hands.

[Blizz]

Don't you think that if you could build that car for under 30 that the majority of of old camaros wouldn't have 25+ year old suspension and old worn out smallblocks in them. And i guess old Camaros grow on trees where you live cuz everywhere i've lived you can't buy 13 donor card for 2500$ so your buddy should consider himself the exception. And go and check out the price of the Kenne Bell supercharger i never said you couldn't get one cheaper just stating the price for the one listed.

[Riverratt]

You can't even find a 69 camaro project car around here for under $10,000.00.

[Fast Fred]

when the style changes, the body, the first year always had bugs, not big stuff
just not well thought out stuff, such as, can't see the speedo through the steerin wheel, 4 speed cars were famous for crackin at the lower corner under the doors... i'd walk right by a 67 or newer for a 66-65 with no moda in it, but thats just me. all the power you got steerin, all the power you got brakes ( i would have to fix that) i need my own Moda.:cool:

and doin as much of that as i could my self, could see burnin alot of that 150, to come out with a car that showed like the car hear:cool:

from what i can see from hear

[Raceman]

Don't you think that if you could build that car for under 30 that the majority of of old camaros wouldn't have 25+ year old suspension and old worn out smallblocks in them. And i guess old Camaros grow on trees where you live cuz everywhere i've lived you can't buy 13 donor card for 2500$ so your buddy should consider himself the exception. And go and check out the price of the Kenne Bell supercharger i never said you couldn't get one cheaper just stating the price for the one listed.

So he's got a 30K motor (at tops) in a 20K reskinned rustbucket (at tops) with another 10K in suspension and drivetrain upgrades (yep, again at tops), throw another 10K at misc. and it's STILL a long way from 150K.

[Raceman]

when the style changes, the body, the first year always had bugs, not big stuff
just not well thought out stuff, such as, can't see the speedo through the steerin wheel, 4 speed cars were famous for crackin at the lower corner under the doors... i'd walk right by a 67 or newer for a 66-65 with no moda in it, but thats just me. all the power you got steerin, all the power you got brakes ( i would have to fix that) i need my own Moda.:cool:

and doin as much of that as i could my self, could see burnin alot of that 150, to come out with a car that showed like the car hear:cool:

from what i can see from hear

Fred, I'm thinkin' you're confusing your body styles here. The '67 is the same body style as the 65/66, with only the front fender vent louvers being the noticable difference. The '68 was the first year of the new one.

As far as 4 speeds "cracking under the doors??:confused: :confused: :confused: ...... just so you'll know, in the year model ranges we're talking about here I have 3 '63's, 1 65, 2 67's, 5 69's, and 1 '70. With the exception of ONE of the 69's, all are 4 speeds, (the lone auto has the high shift point YC turbo 400 that doesn't shift until 6800 if you hold the throttle on the floor, only available with solid lifter big blocks) and all of mine newer than the '65 are big blocks. I've NEVER seen or heard of one cracking under the doors.

[1BadAction]

150idioticposts per day... you are totally clueless, and a complete moron.

people, this 150 guy is a know it all retard, he cant even drive a boat, and when he does he almost kills other people minding their own business. Not to mention hes to damn big of a moron to rig anything correctly. anything that he touches or works on for any length of time is turned into a totally worthless POS.

[Fast Fred]

Fred, I'm thinkin' you're confusing your body styles here. The '67 is the same body style as the 65/66, with only the front fender vent louvers being the noticable difference. The '68 was the first year of the new one.
:confused: thinkin you may be right, the last year of the run of the style has all the bugs worked out.

on the rest, you Gots to drive it like it was ment to be drivin, not all do, most are investment ornaments.:eek: :cool:

[Raceman]

..........on the rest, you Gots to drive it like it was ment to be drivin, not all do, most are investment ornaments.:eek: :cool:

Mine might be ornaments, but not investment ornaments. I bought a majority of my old cars when cars were cheap and only ole' rednecks liked muscle cars. Example: I bought my LS6 Chevelle for 800 bucks in 1981 (still original paint) with the phone number for the guy that had THE original motor, and the promise that it was for sale for cheap. A year later when I FINALLY pried him off of it, I was REALLY ill to have to shell out about 7 or 800 more to get it. I don't EVEN allow myself to think about what it's worth today, because it makes it AND the big block Corvettes, as well as several others that were cheap at the time and expen$ive as hell now too painful to hang on to. My kids'll probably have a HUGE garage sale when I croak, but my ole' stuff ain't for sale now, so the value becomes irrelevant, and that's the way the car hobby should be.......... cars in the hands of people who know and appreciate em, instead of the current crop of investment whores that have driven the price into the stratosphere on stuff they don't even know anything about.:( 2 million dollar hemis and million dollar Corvettes......... oh my achin' ass.:rolleyes:

[HiLift]

Hear Hear!!

Said by a true enthusiast!

[Blizz]

No offence to you Norris cuz i know you've been collecting for years. But it's guys that have collections like yours that are driving up the prices. They have tons and tons of stuff sitting in garages and boxes collecting dust. Not really using it as it should be used. But the newer guys are bidding and bidding like crazy toget stuff like you said they don't even know about. Again no offence to you:)

[jeffbare]

My father in law has a new LS7 he is building to replace the 450 hp LS6 (I think thats what it is, out of a ZO6) he has matched to a 6 speed competition tranny in his 1988 BMW M3. There is nothing about the M3 that doesn't look stock except it is lowered 1" and sounds like a V8. It is one bad azz little rocket.

[Raceman]

No offence to you Norris cuz i know you've been collecting for years. But it's guys that have collections like yours that are driving up the prices. They have tons and tons of stuff sitting in garages and boxes collecting dust.

No offense taken, but I struggle to follow your reasoning. If "guys like me" have the stuff sitting around, howz' it drivin' up prices if we aren't selling it or "using it like it should be used"? I drove my 427 Biscayne to lunch yesterday, and the old red 427 Ford the day before. Monday we took one of the '67 435's to a weekly cruise at Summit.

What I see as driving up prices are the Barrett Jackson type auctions that pander the people that flex their egos by getting on TV and paying double the market (or more) for a car that they may or may not even know anything about, or even care about for that matter. At a glance, there are quite a few that come back through in a given year for an even higher price than they brought the year before. In the late 80's the hobby went nuts. There were a lot of dot-com millionaires and young professionals that could all of a sudden afford a car that they wanted in high school and couldn't have back then. The stock market was also weak. Some of these people found out that that old GTO, Chevelle, or 442 wasn't quite so much fun as it would've been as a teenager with it's bad manners and high maintainance requirement, and some of the cars bought by that crowd got dumped. That together with the escalating stock market contributed to a BIG decrease in muscle car and special interest car values in the early/mid 90's. Unfortunately, about 10 years later the frenzy came back, and the prices haven't shown much sign of correction. I've got MOST of the cars I want, and again, ain't sellin', so it doesn't really matter to me what the market does, but it's sad to see so many people who really would like to have an old muscle car for all the right reasons excluded from the hobby because of the prices.

[150aintenuff]

http://portland.craigslist.org/nco/car/421131973.html

listed for 3K highest offer so far 750.00..... if I went up there with a trailer i could probably butter up with a beer or 2 and get it for under 500.00..... less than 40 miles away... sure its a project but I KNOW for 30K invested it could look better than what is listed for 150,000.00 dont tell me they arent out there cheep... they are...

[150aintenuff]

BTW that search took less than 30 seconds..... in one craigslist area.... all i did was type in camaro resto and terry and i woudnt give 150 for it and we weold probably come back with 2.... next time Im at terrys ill take a pic of his yard....

[whipper]

ill give him 40 thats all its worth! Doesnt even have a darn hood!!:D

[Blizz]

I agree that the Barrett Jackson type guys are killing it for almost everyone. But if someone owns 25 cars and only ever uses 4-5 of them that's 20 less for regular people. Between that between that and the super high dollar stuff there's less and less available. The same thing goes for boat motors, snowmobiles or anything. Like the guy thats got 20+ Mk20H mercs in a trailer perfectly restored but never removes them from it, and the guys that would still use em can't afford them. I know you have some pretty rare stuff and that stuff should be on a pedestal or in a garage. But do yu use all 5 of your 69 vettes? And i envy your kids because they will have from what i hear a hell of a collection

[Charlie M]

i also didnt notice the new LS7 corvette mota either... i was thinking the BBC version... which ya can build for 4Kish if ya know where to look... even still a good wrecked donor car can go cheep if ya go to the right sources... so i gaurantee he aint in it more than 30K with all the mods and even then it aint worth it....... id give 10K MAX for it... especiall when there is a more rare ### matching car 20 miles form my home..... and i could get it for about 12K....


Where are you finding new LS7's for 4K. I am looking for one and can't find one for twice that. I went to a dealer only salvage auction and saw a ZO6 Vette totally trashed beyond belief bring over $25,000.

[150aintenuff]

re read my post i was thinking the old 454 LS7 not the new SBC LS7

[Charlie M]

even less value in it then... who cares..... if it aint old iron why bother.... if ya wanted new buy a Z06.. far better handeling and performance.....


I did read your post, you claimed a 800 LS7 big block could be had for 4K then said a new LS7 could be had for 4K

[Blizz]

Niether one can be had for 4000.

[HiLift]

I've got just about 10K into my old 454 LS6, iron head.
This goes into my '76 Stingray, the last of the Stingrays.
At the time I thought I might restore the car (in 1983) but then I built my driver instead. Did I lose money doing it that way? Probably but I was more interested in having a car that I could drive, and drive hard.

Years ago a buddy of mine had a '67 435 horse four speed 'Vette roadster. The car was worth SOOO much dough that he was scared to drive it in case it got shmucked. He ended up selling to a collector, bought a brand new one and still banked enough for a very decent down payment on a second house. At first I thought he was crazy for getting rid of a beautiful machine but then I realized he was making sure the car would always remain a piece of history.


I think if your heart is in the right place, that you search and find the car(s) you've always loved and build them the way YOU want them and hang onto them to enjoy then what's the big deal? If it takes swapping a few cars to reach your goal more on you for having the focus to stay with the program!

[Fast Fred]

?, for 40 thou you couldn't get all them parts in a pile on the floor,?, bad grapes. thare is only the Sting Ray, not to be confused with a Stingray.

[SERIOUS]

50 Grand Tops Or Put A Clown Suit On!!i Don't Care How Much He's Got Into It?:eek: :confused:

[150aintenuff]

Niether one can be had for 4000.

bein that the original LS7 found its way in to alot of old jet boats dont be so sure..... and if all the bottom end pieces are good all ya got is a bit of machine work and head work.. + reassembly... and if ya want 800 hp a little huffer picked up for the right source and yer there... granted ya have to go shoppin but its doable... yesterday one of my fellow employees that teaches hot rod classes at the local college bought a fully done up JE piston equiped full roller cam/valvetrain dual quad 396 drop in carb to pan with electronic MSD distributor for 200.00 ready to run... it even came complete with build sheet and dyno.. and the only difference between a stock LS7 454 and an 800 hp one is the cam, head port profile, intake and carb.... so if ya find one cheep enough never say never...

[HiLift]

From wikipedia Fred........
" 1976 was the last year in which the Stingray badge was used, and 1978 saw the introduction of a glass bubble rear window."

Also from wikipedia Fred.........
"Bill Mitchell also sponsored a car known as the "Mitchell Sting Ray" in 1959, because Chevrolet no longer participated in factory racing."

Semantics Fred.:cool:

[Fast Fred]

wikipedia Fred........ ?, must be a Canada thing:rolleyes: :eek:
71 was the last year for any Muscle cars, even then they were far less than a true Muscle car, all wantabees of what they once were.
Stingray 350 195hp, shakin the ground, Oh ya thats hot.:rolleyes: :eek: :cool:
Grandma's wagon had the same hp.
have a good one:cool:

[Raceman]

Niether one can be had for 4000.
Actually I just bought a complete LS7 (the REAL ONE, the 454) off of E Bay this year that had NEVER been cranked for 3500 plus freight. The guy had taken it apart to have it balanced and blueprinted and never put it back together. There've been several of em in the last couple of years new in the crate for under 5K. With all the 502 and 572 crate motor options the old LS7's don't command the kind of prices that would be expected, and there are a fair number of em that show on E bay new in the crate. They're an absolute blast to have in an old car if you don't mind the race gas and will SMOKE a 502/502 by a BIG margin.

I gotta agree with Fred on the Stingray thing. The only REAL Stingrays were from '63 to '67 and regardless of what the newer STING RAY emblem(with a space) said from 68 on, they weren't REALLY considered Stingrays by the hobby.............. then OR now. I've never understood why GM didn't refer to em as Sharks or Maico's back then, since there was so much chatter about that being the motivation for the design. I think I've owned at least one of every year model of Corvette over the years from '59 through '80, and even a few 80's and 90's, and always thought the 70's cars starting with '75 (which I bought one of brand new) were the true low points in the whole production run. My '75 had a harsh ride for a semi luxury car, which is all it was good for by then with ZERO power, and about all it had going for it was a relatively good A/C and radio. I actually hated the rubber bumpers from the onset of fronts in '73 and then both in 74, but thought they'd grow on me after buying the '75...................... They DIDN'T. The good thing about the 70's model Corvettes now is, that they're fairly abundant for cheap, have decent handling, or at least a good platform to build from, and are easily upgradeable to REAL performance cars with easily bolted in crate engines. Even though I've still got a '70 454 roadster, far as I'm concerned the production of the Corvette as a high perf car ended in 1969 and didn't reappear until the Callaways of 1987 (which was basically a conversion, even though sold by GM) and ZR1 of 1990. Nowdays the Z06 is a real world class performer again, but I ain't dumpin upwards of 80K in a depreciatin' toy, so I'll just admire em from a distance.

Fred, I guess '71 could be considered the last year if you're countin' Chrysler in the mix, but the GM stuff died in 70 IMO. The LS6 Chevelle was no more, along with all the other solid lifter big blocks (except for LS6 Corvette), the Z28 Camaro, and first time offered in '71 LS6 Corvette were both pigs with their remaining high perf camshafts on top of low compression, and the Pontiac and Olds suffered the same low compression death roll. To show how bad it REALLY was, we took a friend's brand new '71 LS5 4sp. Corvette and found out that the only thing the factory had done to it was put the open chamber heads on the old '70 low domed closed chamber pistons, and reset the timing and advance curve. We recurved the distributor and put a set of '70 heads on it and put the distributor on a distributor machine, and the car went from low 15's to high 13's with NO OTHER CHANGES.

[Fast Fred]

Fred, I guess '71 could be considered the last year if you're countin' Chrysler in the mix,
i am, my 71 Road Runner, did have some get it when stock, but no ware near
a stock 69, i remember all them cars, on the street. in 61 maybe 62, some ware in thare, on the console of the vett right about then, said some thin like "In excess of 130mph" make sure the rag top is down, i don't remember the last part word for word, but something like that. Muscle cars don't have AC:eek: :cool:

[BarryStrawn]

I think the 1973 & 1974 LS2 Pontiacs quality as legitimate muscle cars. They were low compression but they ran low 13s right off the showroom and 12s with a little tuning.

[Raceman]

What were they? Was that like the SD 455's in the Firebirds?

[Fast Fred]

had a Pontiac, about 73-74 ish, thinkin it was a GT lemans, or maybe just GT,
had a 350 in it, but had a 3speed, wasen't all that top end, but would pull almost a buck in second gear, had an air pump on it. beater but was a good beater:cool:

[BarryStrawn]

LS2 was the engine code for the 455 Super Duty. All time best Pontiac cylinder heads and even had decent rods. Not very durable as a race engine but I thought it was just about ideal for the street. They didn't make a whole lot of them but nobody else made anything in 1973 and 1974.

[Fast Fred]

in the hear and now, seems it's what ever you want to make it, and that Pile Pontiac was more hot rod than any thing i'm rollin now, car would fill with tire smoke through the rotted flapin 1/4 ers,:eek: :cool:

[The Big Al]

News Flash!

Not at SEMA 2007!!!!!!!!

Talked with friend with Doug herbert who is there.
Ain't no puppy like that in the house!

http://www.sema.org/main/semaorghome.aspx?ID=58446