Noise ticket on Outboard on the 4th?

[speedy]

I have 89 STV with a earily 80's merc oval port carburated motor on it, 20 inch closed exhaust midsection. I was ticketed for noise on the 4th on a lake in Muskego Wi. yesterday. Officer said because my motor was so high on the transom my exhaust was coming out above the water? I do not have a jack plate on the boat and the motor is bolted to the back of the boat as low as it can go. Almost everyone on this site has same kind of set up or worse can anyone help me when comes to fighting this ticket!

Since it was the 4th there were numerous homes on the lake lighting fireworks off, even some shooting the big bang type. Officer resonded to any questions on this with they all had legal permits. (liar) I believe I was profile for my boat and motor designed but don't know how to fight it?

I am officially thrown off the lake with this boat and I own property on it!

[Pro300x24LD]

Sounds like crap to me.....usually the law will dictate a certain Db Level. Whether it be at idle or at a specified speed and fly by type system.

Time for you to look into your local laws.

[Dutch]

time to fight. same thing here, someone complained about the noise.
the judge threw it out of court, says unless the officer uses a decibel
meter he is out to lunch. lots of your fish cops are part timers and they
arent going to spend 1000 or so for a calibrated meter.

[Dutch]

bttw-alot of these newer jet outboards are louder than the hp stuff.
you just have to do your homework and when you go to court have
lots of pics of your stuff and some parts to show the judge.

[pyro]

Fight it! They have NO evidence against you:

-Your motor is not modified in any way to make it louder.
-It's also set up correctly for the given application.
-The cop is not likely an expert on outboard setup.
-A decibel test is typically done at close range at idle. At idle, a high-performance Merc V6 with a stock mid with full liner sounds like a fishing motor, nothing more.

They've got nothing on you. Sign up for a full formal hearing, the assistant prosecutor will most likely throw out the case "over the table" before any hearing even takes place. This method is VERY effective in situations like this.

[David - WI]

First, I think you need to find out whether he cited you for violating the state law or a local ordinance.

From the DNR website:



Mufflers: No person may operate a motorboat without a muffler or one which exceeds noise level standards (86 dB on an "A" weighted scale) with a muffler. Operators must submit to testing when requested. Muffler cutout devices are prohibited which allow the noise level to exceed 86 dB.


Kinda weird... ATV's can be 96 decibels when throttled up to 1/2 the redline rpm.

[bahamatrama]

I would just start by calling the prosecutor and explain your story. Might just throw it out of court. There busy and get tired of fighting pointless tickets.

[David - WI]

The noise tests are not done at idle. The boat cannot exceed 86 decibels... period.

In practice, sound level testing is very difficult to do properly.

But, if he was cited for violating a local noise ordinance... he probably doesn't need any evidence to support the ticket. Madison's noise ordinance says:


<TABLE width="100%"><TBODY><TR>
No person shall make or assist in making any noise tending to unreasonably disturb the peace and quiet of persons in the vicinity thereof unless the making and continuing of the same cannot be prevented and is necessary for the protection or preservation of property or of the health, safety, life or limb of some person.


</TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[pyro]

That law is complete bullsh**. Sound pressure, when measured in decibels, decreases, or "rolls off" as the tester is moved away from the subject. different frequencies roll off at different rates with this increase in distance. This distance must be specified with regard to any such noise ordinance.

Many fishing motors could easily be over 85 dB at WOT if they're tested point-blank, on-board.

The law you're quoting cannot be legal, unless it defines a specific DISTANCE and/or specific throttle range that the test is performed under. They can't require you to make a wide open pass at 20 feet away, because the test would break another well-known law!

There's no way that something can be left open to interpretation like that. Someone could complain that jet-skis are "unreasonably disturbing the peace" under such a law. what defines unreasonable? WHO defines unreasonable?

[Six Four]

MAn fight it, just got to court and plead not guilty, then explain your facts and the officer will need to expain his..

[pyro]

They will usually try to work it out with you "over the table" BEFORE any hearing takes place, since this saves the state and/or county a LOT of money. If the prosecutor understands, he can throw it out without even letting the cop tell his story.

[rude_v8]

fight the ticket... shoot some photos of several bass boats with the same motor and then get a notorized statement from your marine dealer confirming it's a stock motor on a family runabout with thru hub exhaust and be done with it... make sure your statement from the dealer is notorized or they won't accept it... take the photos and statement to court and you should be fine... remember to put the right prop on it before shooting the photos...


David - WI
The law quoted about appears to be from two different sections of law... One covering boats and the other covering residential...

Here's something for you to ponder... The 86db law has been on the books since the 80's on the westcoast and even goes further and makes it illegal for manufactures to sell any boat that exceeds the 86db... So my question would be, why are the people in California who purchased those big v8's not going back to the builder and demanding free mufflers rather than paying for them out of their own pocket...

[ProComp]

When we got pulled over in Minnesota the db rating was done at idle and a ton of performance boats passed. Like mentioned, find out which law was broken, fight it and claim you have a stock un-modified production motor like all the other bass or recreation guys.

When ya win the case, mount your motor in the 3rd hole as your leaving some perforance on the table! heehee

[David - WI]

David - WI
The law quoted about appears to be from two different sections of law... One covering boats and the other covering residential...

Here's something for you to ponder... The 86db law has been on the books since the 80's on the westcoast and even goes further and makes it illegal for manufactures to sell any boat that exceeds the 86db... So my question would be, why are the people in California who purchased those big v8's not going back to the builder and demanding free mufflers rather than paying for them out of their own pocket...

Our regulations also prohibit anyone (dealer or private seller) from selling or reselling a boat that exceeds 86db. I think it used to say the sound would be measured "not closer than 25 meters from a shore based, stationary meter set to the A-weighting scale" or something like that.

The point I was trying to make with the second ordinance is that there are a lot of laws that are written so that enforcement is up to the discretion of the officer. Reckless driving, driving too fast for conditions, imprudent speed... and in some cases excessive noise or disturbing the peace.

When they get into trouble trying to enforce the law is when the law provides a standard, such as "cannot be louder than stock" or "cannot exceed 86db". If the law provides a standard, then they have to test you... if the law leaves enforcement up to the officer you'll have a hard time beating the ticket; which is why I recommend figuring out exactly what law or ordinance he was charged with violating first.

State statutes:


(a) Mufflers. The engine of every motorboat propelled by an internal combustion engine and used on the waters of this state shall be equipped and maintained with a muffler, underwater exhaust system or other noise suppression device.

30.62(2)(b)
(b) Maximum noise levels for operation. No person may operate a motorboat powered by an engine on the waters of this state in such a manner as to exceed a noise level of 86 measured on an "A" weighted decibel scale.

30.62(2)(c)
(c) Maximum noise levels for sale. No person may sell, resell or offer for sale any motorboat for use on the waters of the state if the motorboat has been so modified that it cannot be operated in such a manner that it will comply with the noise level requirements under 30.62(2)(b)

30.62(2)(d)
(d) Maximum noise level for manufacture.

30.62(2)(d)1.
1. No person may manufacture and offer for sale any motorboat for use on the waters of this state if the motorboat cannot be operated in such a manner so as to comply with the noise level requirements under 30.62(2)(b)

30.62(2)(d)2.
2. The department may promulgate rules establishing testing procedures to determine noise levels for the enforcement of this section.

30.62(2)(d)3.
3. The department may revise these rules as necessary to adjust to advances in technology.

30.62(2)(e)
(e) Tampering. No person may remove or alter any part of a marine engine, its propulsion unit or its enclosure or modify the mounting of a marine engine on a boat in such a manner as to exceed the noise levels prescribed under 30.62(2)(b)

30.62(2)(f)
(f) Local ordinances. No political subdivision of this state may establish, continue in effect or enforce any ordinance that prescribes noise levels for motorboats or which imposes any requirement for the sale or use of marine engines at prescribed noise levels unless the ordinance is identical to the provisions of this subsection or rules promulgated by the department under this subsection.

30.62(2)(g)
(g) Exemption for specific uses. This subsection does not apply to any of the following:

30.62(2)(g)1.
1. A motorboat while competing in a race conducted under a permit from a town, village or city or from an authorized agency of the federal government.

30.62(2)(g)2.
2. A motorboat designed and intended solely for racing, while the boat is operated incidentally to the testing or tuning up of the motorboat and engine for the race in an area designated by and operated under a permit specified under 30.62(2)(g)1.

30.62(2)(g)3.
3. A motorboat on an official trial for a speed record if conducted under a permit from a town, village or city.

30.62(2)(g)4.
4. The operation of a commercial or nonrecreational fishing boat, ferry or other vessel engaged in interstate or international commerce, other than a tugboat.

30.62(2)(h)
(h) Exemption by rule. The department may promulgate by rule exemptions from compliance with this subsection for certain activities for certain types of motorboats for specific uses and for specific areas of operation.

[David - WI]

City of Muskego, WI ordinances:




(5) Excessive Motor Noise. Motorboats shall not be continuously operated without the motor cover firmly secured.

(6) Mufflers. The engine of every motorboat propelled by an internal combustion engine shall be equipped with a muffler which is so constructed and kept in constant operation that it prevents excessive or unusual noise at all times while the engine is in operation. (Ord. #443 - 11-23-82)

[ProComp]

City of Muskego, WI ordinances:

[/LEFT]

Wow, number 6 is sure written pretty loose. So who determines what is excessive or unusual? Your water patrol? Have a hard time believing a 22 year old officer and a 60 year old officer might share the same OPINION, and thats all it is. If that is the case, your likely screwed if you pissed him off.

[Pro300x24LD]

Funny, a law that would target Mercury Marine (any boat for that matter, but you see my point), a company based in Wisconson.

[Dutch]

our local fish cop was busting people telling them if your motor was louder
than he could clap you were breaking the law. the local judge laughed at
it in court and threw it out.

[RIVERRUMMER 70]

AND ASK FOR A JURY TRIAL! GAURANTEE THEY WILL DROP IT!
YOU WILL HAVE TO SHOW UP IN COURT 2 TIMES ONCE TO PLEA, AND THEN ON THE DATE OF THE TRIAL, THERE WILL BE A HEARING FIRST "AM" AND THEN THEY GO TO TRIAL IN THE AFTERNOON. AT THE AM HEARING OR BEFORE THE COURT COMES TO ORDER THE PROSECUTOR WILL SEEK YOU OUT TO OFFER SOME SORT OF REDUCED FINE INCLUDING COURT COST,
BUT SAY NO AND STICK TO YOUR GUNS!!!! BRING A BRIEFCASE AND DRESS IN A SUIT THE WHOLE NINE! HAVE A WITNESS ETC.... THIS IS ALL SMOKE JUST BE CONFIDENT AND LOOK SERIOUS, IT COST THE COUNTY MORE TO GO TO TRIAL ON THIS THAN THE MONEY THEY MAKE ON YOUR FINE AND COURT COST.
IT IS ALL A BUNCH OF ****, THE POLICE WRITE THE TICKET AND THEY KNOW PEOPLE ARE TO BUSY WORKING TO FIGHT IT IN COURT, IT IS 90% BLUFF ON THEIR PART FOR LITTLE **** TICKETS LIKE THIS!!!
NOW ADD BUI, OR AN ACCIDENT, OR OTHER MORE SERIOUS INFRACTIONS AND THEN THEY GOT YOU, THE NOISE WAS AN EXCUSE TO CHECK YOU FOR EVERYTHING ELSE!!!!!!
HERE ON THE "MIGHTY" CHAIN-O-LAKES THE WATER SS CAN STOP YOU FOR A "SAFETY CHECK" NO QUESTIONS ASKED PERIOD!:mad:
BUT THEY GOTTA CATCH YOU FIRST, NO DAYTIME SPEED LIMIT!!!!;)

[pyro]

There you go, that's what I was talking about!!!

I got pulled over one day and written FIVE tickets by TWO officers, and I used this method to get it knocked down to a simple 10-over speeding ticket without ever seeing a courtroom.

[David - WI]

AND ASK FOR A JURY TRIAL! GAURANTEE THEY WILL DROP IT!
YOU WILL HAVE TO SHOW UP IN COURT 2 TIMES ONCE TO PLEA, AND THEN ON THE DATE OF THE TRIAL, THERE WILL BE A HEARING FIRST "AM" AND THEN THEY GO TO TRIAL IN THE AFTERNOON. AT THE AM HEARING OR BEFORE THE COURT COMES TO ORDER THE PROSECUTOR WILL SEEK YOU OUT TO OFFER SOME SORT OF REDUCED FINE INCLUDING COURT COST,
BUT SAY NO AND STICK TO YOUR GUNS!!!! BRING A BRIEFCASE AND DRESS IN A SUIT THE WHOLE NINE! HAVE A WITNESS ETC.... THIS IS ALL SMOKE JUST BE CONFIDENT AND LOOK SERIOUS, IT COST THE COUNTY MORE TO GO TO TRIAL ON THIS THAN THE MONEY THEY MAKE ON YOUR FINE AND COURT COST.
IT IS ALL A BUNCH OF ****, THE POLICE WRITE THE TICKET AND THEY KNOW PEOPLE ARE TO BUSY WORKING TO FIGHT IT IN COURT, IT IS 90% BLUFF ON THEIR PART FOR LITTLE **** TICKETS LIKE THIS!!!
NOW ADD BUI, OR AN ACCIDENT, OR OTHER MORE SERIOUS INFRACTIONS AND THEN THEY GOT YOU, THE NOISE WAS AN EXCUSE TO CHECK YOU FOR EVERYTHING ELSE!!!!!!
HERE ON THE "MIGHTY" CHAIN-O-LAKES THE WATER SS CAN STOP YOU FOR A "SAFETY CHECK" NO QUESTIONS ASKED PERIOD!:mad:
BUT THEY GOTTA CATCH YOU FIRST, NO DAYTIME SPEED LIMIT!!!!;)

This is definately the place to come for poor legal advice.

I was stupid enough to send in my $35 and request a jury trial last year when I got ticketed for driving 55 mph in a 55 mph zone because there was "light snowfall".

I got stopped right outside the county airport, so I went online and got the weather observations for the exact time printed on my ticket. Visibility was 7 - 12 miles (anything over 6 miles is considered "unlimited" visibility for aircraft, according to the site).

The lawyer said I could probably beat the $198 ticket but it would cost me a minimum of $1500 to go to trial because of all the lawyer time involved with jury selection and the pre-trial hearings.

So, he ended up making a deal with the DA where I paid $212 for "obstruction" or something, instead of $198 for "driving too fast for conditions" but the lawyer (who I didn't even meet and only made one phone call) socked me for another $250.

So, for being such a dumb-ass I spent the $35 for the jury trial, $212 for the Obstruction ticket, and $250 for the snake... getting me off-the-hook for $497.

[j_martin]

This is definately the place to come for poor legal advice.

I was stupid enough to send in my $35 and request a jury trial last year when I got ticketed for driving 55 mph in a 55 mph zone because there was "light snowfall".

I got stopped right outside the county airport, so I went online and got the weather observations for the exact time printed on my ticket. Visibility was 7 - 12 miles (anything over 6 miles is considered "unlimited" visibility for aircraft, according to the site).

The lawyer said I could probably beat the $198 ticket but it would cost me a minimum of $1500 to go to trial because of all the lawyer time involved with jury selection and the pre-trial hearings.

So, he ended up making a deal with the DA where I paid $212 for "obstruction" or something, instead of $198 for "driving too fast for conditions" but the lawyer (who I didn't even meet and only made one phone call) socked me for another $250.

So, for being such a dumb-ass I spent the $35 for the jury trial, $212 for the Obstruction ticket, and $250 for the snake... getting me off-the-hook for $497.


Naw

You screwed up by hiring a lawyer, who is an officer of the court. His job is to grease the shank, and make money.

If you had gathered the data as you did, and showed up at the courthouse at least 3 times, dressed well, been respectful, but firm, and made a big show of taking meticulous notes any time anybody said something, (like you're planning to appeal) you would have gotten it thrown out.

[speedy]

With Wi. being the home of Harley it is not is common to have 8 to 10 motorcycles next to you at a stop sign all with modify exhaust system making so much noise you can't stand it. I roll up my windows an still doesn't help? You never see those guys pulled over noise? Noise ordinances shouldn't be subjective to the officers disgretion. Remember when I was ticketed it was the 4th of July with a hundred boats with in a half mile, numerous people shooting off fire works and noise grenades. Officer refused ti site any of them but a hot boat on the lake he had the ability to determine excessive noise from a 100 yards away?

[pyro]

I got my ticket thrown out by signing up for a "formal hearing." It didn't cost me a penny, only the fine on the final "negotiated" ticket.