v-8 evinrude formula 1 engines

[ber1023]

can anyone tell me what HP they were from the factory and what the put out once done up?

[Raceman]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

This topic has brought on bloody brawls around here before. The OMC groupies claim anywhere from 450 to 500+ horsepower, depending on what they've been smokin' and drinkin' the most since the good ole' days;) .

I've never figured the comparison between them and the 2.4 liter race Mercs of that era, which probably put out somewhere from mid 200's to 275 or 280 AT MOST showed the OMC's as having arguably a 200 HP advantage.

One thing for sure.............. the older they git', the faster they wuz'.

[rude_v8]

can anyone tell me what HP they were from the factory and what the put out once done up?

it depended on who was ordering the motor and if you were factory sponsored or not... If I remember correctly it was around 375+ for the detuned motor and 415+ for the factory teams, who tore them apart anyway adding their own favorite mods...

[STV_Keith]

Holy Crap, is that Dr. Rick posting there?

[Watermark]

.....Enough horsepower to make a 1400 lb. F1 boat accelerate from 0 to 120 MPH in 8 seconds (or less) ...

[rude_v8]

Holy Crap, is that Dr. Rick posting there?

nope this isn't Rick... He town left for a race... I'm just another old omc guy thats been around forever... Hell I'm so old I remember when Earl Bentz was just a young kid starting out and racing a 70 or 75 stinger while working at Jenks Outboard Service in Charleston Sc in the 70's prior to starting HydraSport...

[Guy Hanson]

I have one of these motors on an old tunnel boat, both motor and boat are restored, and in many years of performance boating have never driven a boat or been in a boat with one or two engines or even a 1000 hp inboard that comes near the acceleration and speed of this!:eek:

[skydog]

To bad they did not make it. I guess just to big and heavy! It is easy to make HP with size, the hard part is do it with small CC!! :) :)

Skydog

[STV_Keith]

nope this isn't Rick... He town left for a race... I'm just another old omc guy thats been around forever... Hell I'm so old I remember when Earl Bentz was just a young kid starting out and racing a 70 or 75 stinger while working at Jenks Outboard Service in Charleston Sc in the 70's prior to starting HydraSport...

Cool! I saw the location and just guessed. :) You ever make it out with Rick, Danny, Stevie and the boys? What are you running?

[rude_v8]

I plead the fifth if your asking about these guys...

[STV_Keith]

Yeah, so I see Danny's Stoker, Stevie's STV, not sure on the name of the guy with the Eliminator and then Rick's Qshot. :)

[STV_Keith]

Hmmm, Rude_v8 = Rude Tim?

[ber1023]

does anyone have a a rude CC? it would be perfect for my 13' allison

nice engine rude_v8

[philmyrna_shakesby]

Hi there. Nice thought but I think you'd be beter withan '86 or later 70 hp. prop rated moter. We took old 85's off in NZ & fitted prop rated 70's & had better figures. If you want soething special get a conversion to fit the 15inch 75 hp leg to a 70 prop[ rated' then you will "Sceem & Fly!!

[php]

nope this isn't Rick... He town left for a race... I'm just another old omc guy thats been around forever... Hell I'm so old I remember when Earl Bentz was just a young kid starting out and racing a 70 or 75 stinger while working at Jenks Outboard Service in Charleston Sc in the 70's prior to starting HydraSport...
D.F. Jenkins (Jenks Outboard Service) was Earl Bentz's uncle.He worked for D.F, an lived with him at that time.

[rude_v8]

D.F. Jenkins (Jenks Outboard Service) was Earl Bentz's uncle.He worked for D.F, an lived with him at that time.

Then you might remember when a couple young guys stole the two omc factory race motors and the police came back to the shop to arrest the guys a few days later, only to have DF come running out of the shop with a shotgun wanting to shoot the scumbags that stole from him while they were in handcuffs and the police begging DF not to kill the kids...
Ah the good ol days...

[STV_Keith]

Hey Rude, who is you then? If'n you're not Rick, and you're not Tim, I can't think of any other V8 guys running around Havi right now. :)

[rude_v8]

I'm the same old fart that purchased two v8 cowls from you in person a couple years ago... Oh what short memories you young guys have... I would assume you have some vague memory of us standing in your garage discussing your project motor and your dad for over an hour... Did you ever finish that motor, if so how did it work? I'm assuming two years later it's ok for me to mention the project...

ps: call me next time your headed to havasu

[Backfire]

Ahhh, tails of the "Wild Geeche" sure to follow.
Backfire ;)

[rude_v8]

Someone who knows their history...


Ahhh, tails of the "Wild Geeche" sure to follow.
Backfire ;)

[STV_Keith]

Ahhh, now I follow. Strange, I didn't see you out on the lake last year! C'mon, get out there! You know what I gots...just flag me down. :D

Project is still under wraps and in about the same condition as you saw it. Making some progress, but it's slow going.

[php]

Then you might remember when a couple young guys stole the two omc factory race motors and the police came back to the shop to arrest the guys a few days later, only to have DF come running out of the shop with a shotgun wanting to shoot the scumbags that stole from him while they were in handcuffs and the police begging DF not to kill the kids...
Ah the good ol days...
I remember that well. my dad did the race motor work for DF at that time.DF called dad that morning an ask if he picked up the motors dad said no DF said oh He$$.I know the guy that did it but thats not for here.

[php]

Someone who knows their history...
The Big Geeche is gone, hung at Rocks Pond until it disappeared.The Little Geeche stayed in the barn at DF's house a while after his death. Last i heard Bruce the man that built it got it back. The road leading to Bruce's house was called wild Geeche rd.I was the last person to drive the Wild Geeche.

[rude_v8]

you know when DF was excited he spoke "Geeche"... I'm sure you remember the shop was behind Renkens dealership, that is until Larry D bought the dealership from them, only to have the Renkens turn around and buyout Larry's 4 locations several years later... Of course DF had already passed away when he had a heart attack driving home and hit a big oak tree...

Php, if you drove the red geeche or hungout at the shop I'm sure we met at some point in the 70's...


The Big Geeche is gone, hung at Rocks Pond until it disappeared.The Little Geeche stayed in the barn at DF's house a while after his death. Last i heard Bruce the man that built it got it back. The road leading to Bruce's house was called wild Geeche rd.I was the last person to drive the Wild Geeche.

[magcat16]

I asked my dads friend who raced the f1 tunnels with the v8's.He said factory claimed 425hp but the best he saw with one was 360hp. His boats were always some of the fastest on the water. He also raced the merc's at the same time.He said v8's were fast if all you wanted to do was go straight.

[TomAprilsswitzers]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

This topic has brought on bloody brawls around here before. The OMC groupies claim anywhere from 450 to 500+ horsepower, depending on what they've been smokin' and drinkin' the most since the good ole' days;) .

I've never figured the comparison between them and the 2.4 liter race Mercs of that era, which probably put out somewhere from mid 200's to 275 or 280 AT MOST showed the OMC's as having arguably a 200 HP advantage.

One thing for sure.............. the older they git', the faster they wuz'.

:reddevil:I was told by someone from Evinrude Racing (was with them during the Formula 1 years & when the 189mph record was set with a V8) that they were 400-450..Usually blew up close to 500...That's why the closed deck was on the drawing board, all the F-1's(and stock V8's) were open deck, by closing the deck and putting in thicker sleeves (along with a few other things) that motor was suppose to go over 500hp and be structually more efficent under the stress of high horsepower.
But we will never know, the only one that exists(rumors there is one in Seatle too) is on the back of my Switzer and she's juiced to about 400 but it will never see anymore. No way I could replace her if she blew, and 90mph is fast enough for the old Switzer GL 21 hull.
Attached is a picture of my 1985 3.6 V-8 and the prototype(closed deck) that was sold to me by accident(both the bk rep and my buddy who bought it for me thought it was just a 4 liter assembled block(neither noticed the full hemi pistons that was in it(now replaced with another type)) at the bankruptcy auction in 2002.....Tom:D...:cheers:One more thing the Switzercraft Regatta 2009 will be on July 18 at THE BIG BASIN MARINA in Channahon Illinois,along the Illinois Waterway,all boats and boaters are welcome to bring their stuff,shine it up and show it off and do speed passes for the crowd:cheers: www.freewebs.com/switzercraftreunionregattas/

[php]

you know when DF was excited he spoke "Geeche"... I'm sure you remember the shop was behind Renkens dealership, that is until Larry D bought the dealership from them, only to have the Renkens turn around and buyout Larry's 4 locations several years later... Of course DF had already passed away when he had a heart attack driving home and hit a big oak tree...

Php, if you drove the red geeche or hungout at the shop I'm sure we met at some point in the 70's...
Do you remember Dillard, Mc Kay an Roger. When Dillard was gone for awhile thats when DF hired the boy that stole the motors Dillard died a few years back. I wish DF had lived to see the V8 he would have loved it. Danny Pigott

[rude_v8]

Danny, I remember all you guys, including "Rabbit"... Any idea what happened to Rabbit... My memory might not be correct, the mid 70's was a long time ago, didn't you own and race a omc stinger you worked on at DF's...

[MN4V]

From the old V8 daze.
Mark N
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm315/MN392/EvinrudeV8KankakeeIL.jpg

[philmyrna_shakesby]

Now that is a well trimmed boat with a later injected 8. Nice to see the S-E logo just under the driver. Poor begger must be wishing he was running a canopy with that safty cell. The "Percival/Hodges" cell came just after the death of Tom Percival when he was teamed up with Bob Spalding both OMC V8 drivers. Oulton Broad Yacht and Powerboat Club had some charictors in their membership #'s in those days.

[340deepreeper]

If there is anyone out there that can help me please pm me anytime. i have a couple of these engines and i would like to put them to good use.

[STV_Keith]

If I could afford it, I'd LOVE to put one of those on my STV. Instead, I'll be stuck with a 450+hp Monty V8 based off a production motor, with carbs and a 20" offshore mid.

[vista 88]

awesome power...and the sound of the f1 motor is unbeleivable..wish they were still made and raced

[philmyrna_shakesby]

anyone with a genuin Second Effort F1 is indead lucky. They were on lease loan, ported differently for different races. Eight carbs and 3.5 litre then fuel injected then just berore I left the UIM made a ruling that they had to be no bigger than 3.00 litre Within 3days Garry had a 3 litre v8 running alloy linners and nicosiled bores which had a better power weight ratio than the 3.5. Cast iron weighs a bit 'eh!! Phil

[vista 88]

very true..anyone with one has a piece of history

[philmyrna_shakesby]

:leaving:The "original question was "what HP the OMC V8's put out at "The Factory" They were all built @ Second Effort Lake Hamilton and depending on race/ boat/driver, Garry or Les gave the porting specs. That was done in one shop, then they came to "us"in assembly where the blocks were pressure tested,etc then assembled. HP wasn't discussed, it was "addiquate?" Enough in other words. Just before I had to return to NZ after my "learning curve" at SE the UIM decided "over night" to limit the capacity from 3.5 litre to 3.00. Within a few hours Garry had the cast iron linners replaced with alloy reducing the cc's and out of State to nicosil (spelling again!). Their power ratio went up so "up you'res" so to speak the UIM. Maybe should have been left to the APBA instead, I don't know that had nothing to do with us but shows how cleaver Garry and Les could be. Some would say it was a shame Garry left Mercury but then his father would not have told him he had to make that "Second Effort" in life, and he did just that. Gave me the Mach dealership to take back to NZ with me, a side others never saw of Mr. G.:cheers:

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

So we have custom built F1 motors built to the boat, its driver & the race course itself. So was there ever any thing discussed or overheard by yourself as to specific data for these motors. What RPM's, torque figures, Gear ratio's. Were the motors dynoed at Lake Hamilton. Did you hear of any data re the World Record setting motor in 1989.
===============================================================

[philmyrna_shakesby]

:cheers:'Alow mate. Most all you hear about OMC V8's and their HP is pure:icon_bs:.The Merc guys love to see it. They still had nothing to beat it with and Charlie went direct to Merc so I've been told and asked if they would put up a motor for F1 to bring in more "punters" and open it up to a 2 horse race not one, they wouldn't. Instead the launched Fonder or something then I guess that became an unofficial F2. Revs 9,800 limit. Anything Garry saw on the computer on land over 10 he went balistic right at the driver. 10200rpm was trouble time.If one of the guyes in the drawing office, where I should NOT have been:nonod: and I could have built what we designed we could have "saftly gone past 10200rpm:reddevil: Nasty!! Who put him down there. I didn't!! HP. 480 was heard so was 500 but I think that it was not as high as some people give them credit for, All down to torque, gearing and lower unit.The old Stinger gp was said to be only around 150 ish. Again, torque etc. PTO.:cheers:

[powerabout]

Phil

Did you also asemble the lower units and how about the twin pinion offshore ones?

Cheers
Powerabout
So you have the secret to running a V8 safely over 10k..you should make some money out of that!

[Charger70]

I have two of the 3.5 liter Offshore ones with twin pinion lower units. My motors came with complete instructions manuals from Second Effort and they have all the recommended maintenance and installation instructions for the motors. They also have complete parts and schematic breakdown of engines both standard and counter rotation motors and the lower units (both twin pinion and standard lowers). This includes part numbers and descriptions.
I will be happy to scan them in and post them if you want them. I used them to rebuild my lowers with modified prop shafts.

[Mark75H]

Scanning them and posting them would be great! Would be even better if you could host them somewhere else and link them in so they can be a little bigger and clearer. :):):)

[LIQUID NIRVANA]

I have two of the 3.5 liter Offshore ones with twin pinion lower units. My motors came with complete instructions manuals from Second Effort and they have all the recommended maintenance and installation instructions for the motors. They also have complete parts and schematic breakdown of engines both standard and counter rotation motors and the lower units (both twin pinion and standard lowers). This includes part numbers and descriptions.
I will be happy to scan them in and post them if you want them. I used them to rebuild my lowers with modified prop shafts.

I have the original Evinrude Offshore Owner-Operator Manual which incorporates the "parts Catalog" including the Both Counter Rotation & Right Rotation gearcases exploded views. These are NOT the twin pinion model. I can send them in Adobe PDF format.

Does any body have Any Second Effort Owners Manuals OR any of the earlier V4 X115/Gt115, V4 Stinger/Strangler, CCC/RS, in fact ANY of the race Engine owners manuals that can be carefully scanned by you or me so that it can be converted to Adobe PDF & saved for posterity as well as made available to enthusiasts. PLEASE DO NOT let them be lost or destroyed.
On the next post below is the Manual I have scanned & posted on the V8 Offshore together with a huge time capsule of OMC Memrobilia including RARE Video's that I have scanned. There is lot more to come.

1987 - Evinrude "V8 Offshore" Owner Operator Manual
http://rides.webshots.com/album/559125932pFhkpT


Evinrude/Johnson etc Genealogy
1909 – 1934 http://www.etecownersgroup.com/post?id=3435118 (http://www.etecownersgroup.com/post?id=3435118)
1935 – 1955 http://www.etecownersgroup.com/post?id=3438518 (http://www.etecownersgroup.com/post?id=3438518)
<O:p1956 – 1974 http://www.etecownersgroup.com/post?id=3442997 (http://www.etecownersgroup.com/post?id=3442997)
1975 – 1990 http://www.etecownersgroup.com/post?id=3442998 (http://www.etecownersgroup.com/post?id=3442998)
1991 – 2009 http://www.etecownersgroup.com/post?id=3443004 (http://www.etecownersgroup.com/post?id=3443004)

[philmyrna_shakesby]

:leaving:Got the time and money to design and build new, lighter con rods with full compliment bearings and have a flexi plate flywheel. Thats a start. 9800 on an F1 was good enough for 150mph + isn't that enough. Remember that was mid late 80's. How much furhther have props and hulls come. I shoed Garry an idea I had of laminating carbon fibered sheets between glass and density cotrolled and using graphite/carbon // tubing on joints. He was " non commital!" The idea being you used the "glass sheets like you would plywood with the twists and bends but the stress areas had the carbon fibre layed in the right direction for max strenght & lightness. C of g could then be correctly possisioned? I saw a 45sst having its found with not much more than a "broom" handle!! Worked to and were fun to drive. Some even made it to NZ.:cheers:

[Mark75H]

Does any body have ... earlier , V4 Stinger/Strangler, manuals

Some of these are already here on Screamandfly, I thought you had them already

[6Killer]

anyone with a genuin Second Effort F1 is indead lucky.

Guy in Chicago has several F1 V8's, this is one.

[Mark75H]

Guy in Chicago has several F1 V8's, this is one.

Highly modified, isn't it?

[rpm racing]

Highly modified, isn't it?


thats an understatement. I have seen one of them at Jasper and and talked to the builder and it was INSANE.

[jphii]

thats an understatement. I have seen one of them at Jasper and and talked to the builder and it was INSANE.

Me too. Galen builds some wild stuff:thumbsup:

[rpm racing]

The interesting thing is he has told me a couple of times that he thinks you can get more out of a V6 than you can with the F1 V8. It is hard not to agree with him because I would think his own motor and Acie's and Busch are all putting out a lot more than any F1 V8 has.

[Riverman]

It sure makes a guy want to ponder the physics of that. But as you say Phil, results are results.

[StratosVT]

Guy in Chicago has several F1 V8's, this is one.

This one (the one in Sixkiller's pic) sounds real purty!:D

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[StratosVT]

More footage. Pig fat in some spots but he was just breaking the motor in. Still sounds pretty sweet. The day this was shot, it had been raining most of the afternoon. We kept hanging out at the boat ramp waiting for it to go away. Late in the evening, it cleared and the river was quiet as a mouse. With no background noise, this V8 sounded like sweet music!:D

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[philmyrna_shakesby]

:iagree:Lovely sound. Takes me back to happier days on Lake Hamilton. Is it still running the genuin F1 box 'cause when you backed off quickly I was waiting to see the thing get a bit airborn:eek:. They had a habbit 'till we got things sorted. You must have:thumbsup:. As regards others on V8's you have a saying "No substitute for cubes" True, so if you get a newer V6 going faster then you must bring the aging V8 into the 21st century!! and that will cost rather a lot. They were built to race and win in there time. They did that. Now the people that have them are doing a great job keeping them running as well as they are, but, looking at some of the "Mods" done may I suggest some read an out of print book and I meen no offence, we never stop learng, it's The Two Stroke tuners Handbook. If anyone has a spare I'll put my hand up for one, please.Those early Mercs running headers went and sounded fantastic. What a pitty BRP wont join in? 75KH you may remember Chrysler made a similar stacked 4. Looked god, but what it went like I don't know:cheers: Cheers 4 now and have a great week end. See ya Phil.

[djacks01]

This is one of the pages for the twin pinion lower.

[Mark75H]

That is a great scan, correct file compression too!

[Mark75H]

I think I figured out how it works.

Part #51 drives the prop shaft. The position of part #51 determines whether it selects forward, by taking power thru part #12 on which is mounted the double sided prop shaft gear; or reverse, by taking power from part #58, the gear behind the rear drive pinion.

Part #12 is always connected to the input gears and motor. When the gear box is in reverse part #12 is still spinning, but the prop shaft is turning the opposite direction inside it.

[powerabout]

Nice on Mark75

who was the guy that thought this up?
and amazingly the bearing carrier is still held in with a circlip?

[djacks01]

You are close. The carrier bearing cannot backout on this one. Garenteed.

[baja200merk]

The interesting thing is he has told me a couple of times that he thinks you can get more out of a V6 than you can with the F1 V8. It is hard not to agree with him because I would think his own motor and Acie's and Busch are all putting out a lot more than any F1 V8 has.

I was wondering why he showed up with a 6, later found out it was a 4inch 6 :eek::leaving:

[Mark75H]

who was the guy that thought this up?


Probably the same works inside a X-115 gearshift racing lower unit in 1967, Charlie Strang ... well known mechanical and business genius

[jphii]

Probably the same works inside a X-115 gearshift racing lower unit in 1967, Charlie Strang ... well known mechanical and business genius

Looks very similar. That's why I got the X-115 case to adapt to a V6. You never know....