How do you defend yourself?

[WILDMAN]

I just got an email from a Liberator customer who's boat I worked on last week. I put a GPS speedo and trim tabs on his 21ft Liberator.
He proceeds to say that I switched his 28" Drag Four prop for a 26. His boat only runs 90 mph at 6000 rpm, and before, it would run 103 at 6000. Thats with the[26"] prop I switched with a 1.75 gear. The way I figuer it, he'd be running high 70's at 6000 with a 26 and 1.75 gears. [Do the math] I never removed the prop or even started the motor.
Then, because I had his cowl off when he came to pick it up, I must have swapped ECU's.
Then, he read the tab installation instructions which said to install the top of the ram 11" above the plate. I had them at 9".
Then, I must have sold him a used deck pod for his speedo because it was faded and had some pits in it. I told him I'd show him the receipt.
I'm sure this all started because the GPS shows his true speed, not the fantasy speed his old speedo showed. He now has BOTH speedos in the boat, side by side. He needs to look at both at the same time. I told him when he got the boat that the speedo was 10mph off at 100. I even took it out with him at the ramp and the speedo showed 116, while the GPS said 103. The GPS takes 30-60 minutes for the reciever to pick up satellites the first time it's turned on. I had the cowl off to unplug the harness because the auxilary fuel pump comes on with the key and I did'nt want it running for an hour while trying to get the GPS running. I guess the ECU I supposedly swapped could be the reason for the slower speed!
The trim tabs are mounted on top of the tunnels which are 8" above the bottom of the sponsons. The rams have to push the tabs further down to touch the water and therefore need to be mounted as low as possible. They don't even touch the water at 80mph when they are fully lowered. I told him that it's not a fishing boat.
He said the red pod is used because it is faded and has pits. It did have a couple pits which are powdercoated over due to casting imperfections that cast aluminum sometimes has. Anyone who has ordered transparent powdercoats parts at different times knows that the color can be off depending on the thickness of the powdercoat. [The more, the darker]
He says his prop shop did a computer check and a guage check on the prop, and they say it's definitly a 26. He bought the prop himself. Tell me how a 26" prop can do 90 mph at 6000 rpm with a 1.75 gear? I emailed him back saying all this.
How can a person defend himself against someone who just does'nt get it! I really liked this guy, but GEEZ, I give up!
Just venting. WILDMAN

[150aintenuff]

thats about par for the course..... the other day a previous customer was blaiming the DETAILER of his boat that he got screwed because I wouldnt take back 585.00 worth of parts that were previously installed because he changed his mind AFTER i got done and the parts were NON returnable to my vendor...

mostlikly the customer was a drug adict..

[GPRACING]

You are preachin to da choir brotha!people always want to point their finger at you when at the end of the day its their own dumba$$ mistake or decision!Some people are just a special kind of stupid!!!:cool:

[SUPAJAY]

What a doushebag... hell realize once other people disagree with him. Your stellar reputation will stand against this moron. No sweat :D

Is he on the board ?

[WILDMAN]

GPS = reality check. I just feel really bad that the guy feels I screwed or ripped him off. What have I got to gain by doing any of this. Yeah, I know, I must need the money! I hope he realizes his mistake and calls to apologize, but I don't think that's gonna happen.

[kimswang]

GPS = reality check. I just feel really bad that the guy feels I screwed or ripped him off. What have I got to gain by doing any of this. Yeah, I know, I must need the money! I hope he realizes his mistake and calls to apologize, but I don't think that's gonna happen.

Next time, set the GPS to show Km/h with a MPH scale and tell him you did some top secret magic with his engine. He'll prolly buy it and walk away happy.... Idiot! Don't worry about your reputation, I think that will be covered here on the boards....

[Racemore]

Randy,you scoundrel you.How could you do this? lol You must have a hit man follow all your other customers around to make sure they praise your work.ha ha GPS = Gives Performance Straight!!!

props and pitch is another unknown unless it's labbed.alot of them seem to have a little more stamped on the hub than true pitch.it goes good with those speedo's.:cool:

real speed with a 26 1s like 76 mph

[Tom Foley]

Let me guess ........the guy's a lawyer !

[The Big Al]

Let me guess!

This customer beat you up on price and it was a nothing deal for you!

Now you have to live with this cheep bastard!

Just move on and don't worry! Just smile and do "NOT" do any favor's for this customer, "NONE" because if you do, he will expect more and more.
Charge him for every minute you touch his boat.
Not the hour! THE MINUTES! EVERY SINGLE ONE!


He's just pissed is buddy's can't see 100MPH on the speedo!

Have a nice day and don't worry about it.

[wkndracer]

One in every crowd,, be happy if its only one. Don't worry about one nut who thinks the world's out to get them.

[bigbore]

Thats whats up,he's pissed about the 100mph. mark,not being attainable.

[Hot Shot Merc]

Randy I sold a 97" S3000 fresh rebuilt by Phil Conant to a guy.It had 8 break in hours only and a brand new Diamond marine flywheel,also a brand new a-6 computer and all new mercury two ringed top staked pistons for $7,000 and shipped to California.He made a big stink on here because he said it wouldnt turn 10,000 rpms all day long behind his long distance ski race boat.He said he paid a guy several thousand dollars to take it apart and port it to drag specks.I could not convince him that the S-3000 was the ame as a drag inside and that the only changes I made was the 150 lb compresion heads and the left hand to right rotation parts.This motor with the size prop he uses will never turn 10,000 rpms all day long in a long distance ski race and that he should be glad because it wont last more than about ten minutes at those r's anyway.When I sold the motor it was advertised to turn 10,000 rpms wich it did with my drag prop 22 yammy.:) I lost my arse on that sale and then had to try and convince him that I am the one who lost in the end not him.Unbeleivable.

[jerry]

years ago jerry worked in a auto repair shop . a lady brough her car in for brakes , she picked up the car and paid the bill . she came back an hour later telling us we INSTALLED air cond in her car , yea we installed air in her car for the fun of it and didnt charge her . HAHAHAHAH .

[Raceman]

All through the 80's and until '94 I had a small shop where we worked on MY car stuff as well as customers' early model Corvettes. This guy brought me a rough old '65 with a whole list of stuff to do, INCLUDING replacing clutch and pressure plate (which wasnt something we would normally do on anybody's stuff except my own). Anyway, he happens by the shop when we're fixing to put the transmission back in, looks at it, and says "that's not MY transmission............... you swapped transmissions with me, mine wasn't dirty like that." As luck would have it it just so happened that the transmission was THE original one that came in his car from the factory, and it had the matching VIN number sequence stamped in the case. I looked at the number, lowered his car and looked at his VIN tag. When I saw that they matched I pointed it out to him. Of course he started apologizing and trying to backtrack. THEN, I told my guy to get the POS down off my lift and push it out in the yard. It was about 4:30 in the afternoon and the shop kinda bordered on the hood. The guy is like, "what are you doing?" I told him that I didn't screw with people like him and wasn't going to work on his car, that it was going to sit out in my lot, blocked in so it couldn't be moved, but vulnerable to the neighborhood car strippers until he paid the bill for work already done, IN CASH, THEN he was free to send a rollback after it. He paid and got the car picked up.

I've seen this guy around over the years several times since, and he always wants to bring it up and apologize again. His excuses for the behavior are many, but bottom line is, if that car hadn't still had original transmission it would've been a messy situation, but as it was, sure felt good to show somebody that THEY were a horse's ass.;)

[Raceman]

Jerry's post reminded me of another idiot. This woman brings some old clunker in for a muffler. A week or so later she comes back with a waterpump leaking at the front seal. (we don't do waterpumps) She says that "her mechanic" told her that the muffler that we put on her car had more back pressure than the other one, and that caused the engine to build up pressure and blow the front seal out of the pump.

Back then, the public was about a third IDIOTS, (still much better than the full 50% of idiots that make up the population now), but makes me damn glad I'm not in a retail business anymore.:rolleyes:

[Fish]

Thatt sux Randy, but it happens. All you can do is treat people fairly and be honest, but there will still be people too dumb to realize what they are incapable of grasping. If he really understood his boat, he would realize half the stuff is impossible, and probably make him rethink they rest, but unfotunately, it appears he has a long way to go just to get to ignorant.

Don't beat yourself up about it, hopefully we will come around, but you did what you could, the rest is up to him.

fish

[yellowallison]

PUK him WILDMAN.. you did yur best to explain everythin to him and if he doesn't see the PICTURE then thats his problem !!! :D

We all know you aint SCRWED nobody over since we've all done business with you and its always been STRAIGHT UP! :D

1 dumbazz to the many satisfied customers you got..You aint got nuthin to worry bout brutha:D

[Stitch King]

Hey Randy,

How much for the 28" Drag Four and the ECU's? Just kidding.......

The world is full of idiots. Just remember you cant make all of the people happy all of the time.

Sounds like you need a General Manager to handle all of this crap for you. Will work for boat gas and lodging. :D

Ken

[WILDMAN]

Let me guess ........the guy's a lawyer !

Nope! Retired cop. This morning, he emails me asking if the tabs could be dragging because they are low. I told him that because the top of the tunnel is 8" above the bottom, that they would never drag. I've run the 21's at 100 mph with the tabs in the full down position. They don't touch the water at that speed. My guess is that he probably did'nt trim it enough.
Last year he brought it to me to adjust the setup. He could only run it up to 95-96 on the speedo. I changed props and raised the motor, and ran 116 [on the speedo] on my first pass. It was 103 on the GPS. I hope he looks at both speedos next time to see the difference.

[Action Dave]

I own a lawn and garden repair shop and see this stupidity all the time. A few weeks ago a woman customer came in to pick up her $500 Snapper lawnmower. When I brought it out for her she said "that's not mine, mine was green" Snapper has never built anyhting but RED lawnmowers. She proceeds to point at a $50 Craftsman and tells me that's hers. I asked her to call her husband to make sure what color her mower was. Shoulda just let her take the Craftsman.

[150aintenuff]

Nope! Retired cop.

thats worse... they THINK they are lawyers...

[150aintenuff]

I own a lawn and garden repair shop and see this stupidity all the time. A few weeks ago a woman customer came in to pick up her $500 Snapper lawnmower. When I brought it out for her she said "that's not mine, mine was green" Snapper has never built anyhting but RED lawnmowers. She proceeds to point at a $50 Craftsman and tells me that's hers. I asked her to call her husband to make sure what color her mower was. Shoulda just let her take the Craftsman.

hell you shoulda and Ebayed the snapper...

[baja200merk]

hell you shoulda and Ebayed the snapper...

hell yea

[David - WI]

You could make up a sheet listing: noticeable damage, prop (make, pitch, condition), etc. and take a couple digital photos of the boat while the owner is there.

Make them sign the sheet... print out the "before" photos and staple them to the sheet.

The whole thing would only take a few minutes. U-Haul does around here... and I started doing it when I rent a lift or Bobcat just for my own protection.

[stokernick]

obviously his ignorance is superceded by his arrogance!What a jerk,I'll bet you used up a full tank of gas, too!!!

[NICE PAIR]

Hey Randy, those new decals I got from you aren't going to slow my boat down , are they? :D Like another member once said - you can't fix stupid.

[msethsmile]

The customer is always right, I think.

[stylishskier]

The customer is always right, I think.

except when the customer is wrong

[WILDMAN]

He emailed me again and said he wants me to send him his prop back and a new red deck pod or he's gonna file charges for grand theft, taking advantage of the elderly,[he's 61] fraud, etc. I told him he was a jerk and do whatever he wants! I told him to get someone to figuer the prop formula. He says he knows I switched props because his was 3 hours old, and the washer has too many scratches on it for being new. That's what his prop guy told him. I ended my email with "WHATEVER, I'M DONE!"

[WILDMAN]

Oh yeah, I told him I'd be glad to send his prop back to him, but he'd have to send it to me first so I could mail it back! JERK!

[Hot Shot Merc]

These f@$#ing cops think they can be so powerfull and use threats of charges and what not.In reality he's just a f@#$ing idiot.Imagine that!Send him a box of donuts.:mad:

[Little Jon]

tell him if he is elderly that he shouldnt be driving that fast anyways :P no offense to the older people on the board.

[warrior74z]

Back when my Dad started the Merc dealership in 1959 and through the late 70's it was boat people that bought the rigs. They were a pleasure to deal with because boating was their passion and people were good for their word. Then it all changed and everyone that had a car seemed to now have a boat. The General Public as a whole is ignorant. If you are not well educated in the area you are debating you show your ignorance. Don't get me wrong, there are still some great boat people out there, just too many idiots in between. That is the reason I now have leased my boat business out and go by each month to pick up my SMALL check but you know what? No worries mon.:D
Barron

[1BadAction]

ROFLMAO @ this whole thread. :D :D

[Redneck]

Damn, I would make him have an accident the next time he is in your shop. Or better yet, have everyone in your shop say he came in waving a gun around yelling weird gibberish. Make him out to be a senile old crook.

Building motors for bikes put me in the same situation. People want everything in the world for free. I got accused of taking a guys battery when I built his motor for him. He brought me the motor, battery was still in the bike. When I got him to stop saying he was gonna kill me, I got him to go home and take the seat off the bike and check for the battery. He did, and it was there. No "my bad" or anything like it, just "Im coming to get my motor." As soon as he got here, he tried to get me to drop the price. No way in hell after that BS. Then he says he has a bad back and I will have to put it in the back of his truck. Now, this is a month after I wrecked and crushed 2 vertabrae in my back, and this guy is a 6'11" bodybuilder. After this crap, I dont really care anymore. He watches, no offer to help, so I get it up as high as I can, then slam it on the ground. Busa motor chunks all over the place. I always use a tape recorder and tape any conversation I have with customers, so when the cops get there, they get to hear it all, and I have the guy arrested for the threats. One cop who rides called the guy an idiot, and said that he would have done the same thing. I also called the prez of the club the guy rides with and told him I wont work on any more of their bikes, and let him hear the tapes. He went to jail during visiting hours and kicked the guy out of the club. Guy also tried to jump me at a bike night, but the sight of a 500 S&W pointed at him caused him to piss himself. Never say him again after that.

Wildman, he cant charge you with grand theft. Not nearly enough money involved. If he charges you with that, you can get it thrown out of court in no time. Also, if it goes to court, I would add a countersuit for more money. As soon as he sued you and made a scene in your store, he lost all discounts and needs to pay a full (excessive) labor rate. I would get him to bring the boat back, get him to sign the waivers, then let him know that he owes you for the prop he wants, and the ECU, and dont let him pick it up untill he pays and extra full price. No pay after 30 days, send the certified letter and get a Mechanics lien on his boat. Then, sell the boat for stupid cheap. When he takes you to court, let it be known that you lost money. Boat was only worth $500, and parts and labor were 5 times as much. He left you with a junker, and wanted the world for it. Also make it known that he made constant threats, saying that he still had friends in high places and said he would frame you for something. Try to get him on tape making a similar threat. You might have to piss him off the get it, but it would get him jail time. If you want, PM me his email and home address. I will sign him up for all the gay porn I can find. Just to be an azz.

[Frank Molé]

He emailed me again and said he wants me to send him his prop back and a new red deck pod or he's gonna file charges for grand theft, taking advantage of the elderly,[he's 61] fraud, etc. I told him he was a jerk and do whatever he wants! I told him to get someone to figuer the prop formula. He says he knows I switched props because his was 3 hours old, and the washer has too many scratches on it for being new. That's what his prop guy told him. I ended my email with "WHATEVER, I'M DONE!"

hell prob..just jerk himself off:mad:

[bigbore]

Btter hope he's not a member of s$f.

[Little Jon]

so what if he is? what exactly can he do?

[WILDMAN]

I really could care less what he does. I did'nt do a single thing he's accusing me of. I had the body shop for 26 years, and have never even been threatened with small claims court. Some people are just irrational.

[RNM018]

Randy , Don't sweat it . There is always going to be someone that is going to try to get over on you . I used to watch this sort of thing at the bike shop all the time . Only thing you can do is watch your back and take care of yourself . I wouldn't think it will go any further ,as long as you stand your ground , as you have not done anything wrong .If you try and please this guy by offering him anything he's pushing for ,he'll just want more any how . On another note , When are you headed to The Glen this weekend ? I'll be heading over saturday morning some time early .Probably launch at Astor . See Ya There !!! Rich Martin 018:D

[WILDMAN]

I'm going Sat. morning. Gonna launch at a nieghborhood ramp in Astor aroun 11;00

[cc@100mph]

hey randy thanks for your time yesterday not everyone goes out of their way to help a fellow boater at no gain to them at 10.30pm thanks again hector

[The Big Al]

The customer is always right, I think.

Stop thinking!:eek:

Let the professionals do that!:D

[Corona Mike]

Randy just a sugestion, If the prop was as he stated "new" ask the moron if he still has the shipping box from performance propeller--if thats where he got it-- and his receipt. They will both have the prop serial## on them. After he sees that it is his prop. Tell him to take his POS to somebody else and have them do all his B/S that he will want done. Maybe they can figure out how to make his speed-o read "correctly". ;) :D

[WILDMAN]

I thought of that, but I don't think Performance Propellers put a serial no. on them. They did'nt even stamp the pitch on them until recently.

[Corona Mike]

I thought of that, but I don't think Performance Propellers put a serial no. on them. They did'nt even stamp the pitch on them until recently.

I think it still has some code stamped on it--at least the ones they have worked for me does--I'm not sure tough on a un-worked prop tough. Just tell him you have no use for a little prop like that. That ought to get to him! Good Luck, and like everyone has said the reputation you have here speaks for itself! Good Luck! Mike T.

[WILDMAN]

I already told him to call Tim and ask if I ever ordered a 26" prop. With the ne motors, I only order 30"-32"s. Whatcha gonna do with a little ol' 26"? go fishin?

[Little Jon]

use them for bombs

Lib·er·a·tor
–noun <TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>a four-engined heavy bomber widely used over Europe and the Mediterranean by the U.S. Army Air Force in World War II. Symbol: B-24 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Racemore]

ROFLMAO @ this whole thread. :D :D

I tried to poke fun a little about it but the more I think about it makes me wonder how this guy thinks.It's really not funny because I know of a few guys that have sold boats and parts off boats that they were working on and get away with it.Have judgments against them and continue to operate.Then a reputable dealer like Randy gets his balls busted by this guy who hasn't a clue.Because he's a X cop also just shows he's used to thinking he's right even if he's wrong.It takes about 3 minuets to put scratches on a thrust washer on a surface drive boat. SUMMARY,BULL$HIT!!!!

Randy,are you going in the glen or hangin at the island.we'll sea ya and pick up that new prop lol.take care.:D :cool:

[WILDMAN]

I'll probably be outside on the right side. Gotta be where the action is! Probably be in a Checkmate. I sold most everything else.

[Markus]

These stories remind me of something: I have a friend who ran an independent outboard shop until the mid-nineties, working on all makes of engines.

As we all remember, back in those days the quality of OMC products was not on top, and things were breaking all the time on OMC engines.

Because of that, he often had customers with OMCs come back a few days after the last repair with something new broken, asking him why he did not properly fixed the engine the first time. Most times, he ended up doing the additional labor for free and only charging for parts.

After a while he got tired of working for free, so he turned his all makes shop into a Mercury-Mariner-Yamaha-Suzuki-Nissan-Tohatsu shop. If anyone asked him to work on an OMC, he refused.

So I guess the moral of the story is: Refuse to work for retired police officers...

[bigbore]

so what if he is? what exactly can he do?

You guys are coming up with some pretty funny chit

[Little Jon]

o wait he will try and sue us if we make fun of him ;)

[sho305]

I had this ford car I bought as a total, but all damage was cosmetic. It was mid 90s and under 2yr old at the time. I got it fixed and it would kill after it started. I checked the codes and all, nothing. Did full tune up at 30K or whatever was on it, still did it. So, it was about two years ago I take the car to a good ford dealer here for a trans problem and tell them to flash an update on the computer. By now I have replaced temp sensors and checked everything there is, even cleaned the intake/TB/mass air. I had stored it for a while and started driving it again, it has about 64K on it when it take it in. I know it is the computer doing it, you could hold it nearly on the floor and it didn't want to run for the exact number of seconds (only 5 or so) until it wanted to, then it ran great otherwise and started great warm. I go to get the car and say so did you update the computer? Guy says no it was fine, started fine. I say BS! That car has died every time it was started cold for 10years! He says no its fine we didn't do a thing. So I take it home and I can tell it is different, starts fine. I get home and pop the hood and look, yep, they wrote a new calibration code on the emissions sticker...but the guy would not admit it no way.