Skater 21 gets Stroked!

[Euroski]

With a new 300XS that is. Here's a few pictures but still got more to do. More pictures to follow...

[Scream And Fly]

Wise choice of power - you'll love the 300XS. :)

[beer30]

Looks real good on the back.;) Can't wait to see how it runs.:cool: Chuck

[MCRacing]

Just stroked my 28 w/twins can't believe the fuel economy. I'm stroked and stoked !!!!!!!!!

[stokernick]

good show!!Man,would one look great on the Stoker!Tic,tic,tic,tic!

[skydog]

WOW!! KICK BUTT!!!!

Skydog

[1BadAction]

Very nice. You have the best of the best in trucks and outboards. :D imperial blue is still faster :D

[skydog]

Yes your Truck is BAD ASS!! Does that baby tow and move out big time??? Think of trading the 2002 Chevy Sub in on one? Would it tow a 25' Cat well?

[1BadAction]

s-dog, as long as your boat weighs less than about 6000lbs you'll be ok. (its rated for 6500lbs) it could tow a house, but anything much more than the rating and its going to want to push the truck around. when you drop a trailer on it, the air springs automatically air up so the rear stays level. the rear is a 4.10 ratio 14bolt, same thing they run under the 3/4 and 1 tons. as far as "move out" - theres showroom stock 2wds running mid to high 13's in the 1/4... and of course the LS2 speaks for itself.

[MCRacing]

Yes your Truck is BAD ASS!! Does that baby tow and move out big time??? Think of trading the 2002 Chevy Sub in on one? Would it tow a 25' Cat well


Don't do it Sub is king of the road nothing compares !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you need more power put on a K&N filter and chip it.

[Euroski]

This engine is amazing. After 2 hours of break in time I ran the engine up to 6000rpm and still pulling, the GPS showed 97mph with the 30P Hackney. Mercury breakin procedure calls for running 4000-5400rpm for the first hour which I only burned 15gal max. More later...

[Dean Dorsey]

I would be interested in top end numbers compared to your old PM 300 after it is completely broken in. Thanks, Dean

[tux974]

Dean,
The offshore X with a 15" mid is a much better/faster setup and the cowl even looks nicer.;) :D :)
TL

[Ospreyproduction]

Very nice Larry. I would prefer the XS over the "X" any day of the week. Your wallet will thank you too.

[Little Jon]

cheaper on gas and only lose about a couple mph

[tux974]

cheaper on gas and only lose about a couple mph

Just think how much it will cost to gain those extra MPH with motor mods.

BTW, IMO if gas is a problem you should not own a boat like that. You buy a Skater for speed.

[Little Jon]

i dont think he is going to mod his motor to gain 2 mph. if he was going to, why wouldn't he keep the 300pm?

no comment on the skater is only used for going fast.

[Euroski]

The best I pulled with the 300PM was 92-93mph, so at this point I'm 4-5mph the first day out. Is there more speed with the XS... I bet there is, do I want to seak out that MPH, in time yes. But for now it's sure great to cruise at 80 or so and not chew up a ton of gas.

[1BadAction]

The best I pulled with the 300PM was 92-93mph, so at this point I'm 4-5mph the first day out.
:eek: holy sh1t man! congrats. Don't sweat the haters as long as you're happy with what ya have. Any changes to the setup? bigger prop?

[150aintenuff]

92 with a PM... you got a weak one.... there are a couple around here that were 100+ with 280's and banjo was 108 with an x.....

[stylishskier]

92 with a PM... you got a weak one.... there are a couple around here that were 100+ with 280's and banjo was 108 with an x.....

so how many were 100+ with 300pms?? because his was a weak one? I think mike said his ran a little over/at 100 with a 280, banjos ran 108 with a 15" 300x, whats wrong with 97 (so far) with a 300xs... and you know that trick has run further with a 300xs............ he upgraded performance, reliability and milage... props to him...

[Boz]

nice comment 150..........

[Dutch]

92 with a PM... you got a weak one.... there are a couple around here that were 100+ with 280's and banjo was 108 with an x.....
100 plus with the 280, yea right, if you want it to take five miles to get to
speed. larry's 92-93 was on the limiter with the 300, 28 et, wasnt a weak one. i dont think he really cares about that last mph or two.

[Dutch]

92 with a PM... you got a weak one.... coming from someone who buys seats for their boat from pep boys it
doesnt mean a whole lot. congrats larry. i wouldn't mind having a
300xs on my euro. my 300x must be weak as well since it only has
pushed my euro to 114 so far.

[Euroski]

The old 300PM wasn't weak as it's now pushing a Euro over 100 on the limiter! And if "one" has followed the posts on some of the Skaters around here over the recent years... 100+ turns into well maybe 95 +/- with a 280 or 300. My numbers are real as I consider the MPH netted to what I get over a reasonable distance and not running until there's no more water. The limiter kicks in at about 6350rpm so I'm sure 100mph is there. But considering it's only got 2 hours run time and Mercury states you can run the RPM to the limit, I'm going to wait until I get about 10 hours before seaking out more MPH. But I think it's going to need a 32p...

[stokernick]

Many experts have many opinions,fortunately,your's is the only one that matters!:D ;)

[Dean Dorsey]

Thanks Tony, Food for thought on the shortened mid X combo I have heard mixed things on the 21 with 15 mid but I know it is still what peter likes. Euro, what you have found as we discussed is exactly what I found. So if you got a weak one so did I, and quite a few others. I upped compression on my PM 300 and am right at your initial numbers of 97 with the SM lower, sucking fuel like a vacume. This is with all Eric's bolt ons other than his intake, I use an SVS. I probably should have a Force motor at this financial point. I also agree with your general findings on claimed numbers. When I bought mine from a great guy who used to frequent this site, his Avatar showed my skater aired out with a caption underneath reading 103.8. When he took me out in it over in Seattle a little after the pic was taken, with moderate fuel, ideal conditions and the two of us we could only eek out 90.3. And that side of the mountains is always faster by a few MPH than where the pics was taken, which is my backyard. Later by myself with the faster TM lower I eeked out 93.5 here at about 800 feet above SL. So a legit 97 with any 300 with a SM lower on back a 21 Skater is fast. I still to this day think about the 105 number with some skepticism knowing it had a SM lower. I don't think of this as lieing, just in most cases enthusiatic optimisum. Dean

[dan1731]

something is wrong if a 21 skater is only running low 90's. ether the driver or the setup.

back in the late 80's my dads 21 was running 96 with a worked 225. before 260's and 280s.

if i could get 99mph out of my 24 with a 300x, i have no problem seeing how a 21 should go 105. I think with the rite driver and setup one could go 110!!

anyone have a cheap 21 i could slap my engine on:confused::D

[tux974]

I have owed two 21's and have run mid 90's consistently with a Ruck 260 before the 280's and 300's. 15" motors work very well if you know what your doing when taking off and slowing down.
Just my 2 cents.
I will leave this thread alone now.

[Dean Dorsey]

I don't want to call anyone a liar, and won't. I will say that I have talked with many guys that have this setup and when talking off the record, I hear the same low to mid 90's numbers. I am talking stock form pleasure 21's have seats, no hatch, rear bench regular layup. I know the hull is capable of much higher speeds, but talking in this config. I like most on this board have been doing this for a long time with many hulls for me since the early 80's. I know there is a lot that can be said for good setup, prop, and driver. Lets face it when you got a pretty good setup the hull is straight and generally good there is only so much a driver can add. You can only lift the motor and trim so far before you swap ends, been damn close to there.
So as for 105 I believe it could be done. I have never seen it and seen quite a few try, my personal belief is that it certainly would be the extreme exception and a great mix of the before mentioned combo and rare motor, and were talking stock or close to stock 3 ltr. motors. As for 110 in that config. the driver would make the difference, he would need to be one of the famous spokesman for the Keebler company. I would believe that one when I personally saw it!

[stylishskier]

I dont know why you have a problem with the numbers ppl are putting up, they all add up in the prop calculators... tricks boats run 100+ out of the box with a 300xs I believe he has reported... Mike Mongiovis skater with the 280 ran 98 I think, and had been over 100?? Herb ran 107 with an X on a 21ft intimidator v bottom, and as stated, dan has run 99 in a 24... I guess conditions would be the other variable on speed, but its pretty common knowledge the 21s run over 100 with a 300x/xs usually, unless as stated... something is wrong..

[Dean Dorsey]

It no big thing. I love Skaters as much as anyone. My original point is just what I said, my personal experience lines up with Euro's. I read and hear one thing, and when the proof is put down on water in my experience IT AINT THERE. One of the people you spoke of is also one I refer to in my off the record bench talk. Also a Trick 21 is not a Skater although probably the best of the splashes ever, still a splash. Last I heard the two hulls didn't weigh the same, and even sported a slightly different bottom. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong on either of those. I don't want to be painted into a position of knocking a skater, any skater or spending the nignt going toe to toe as I love my skater and don't believe anything is wrong with it. AI tis possible that myself and other do have weak 3 ltr. motor who knows don't have anything but talk to know for sure. It would be great if someone would grab a couple of hand held GPS units and a video camera and bake the puddin on video. I would do it but that would prove nothing. It's not that big a deal to me, but if it is to someone else, I would love see it. I am certainly not to proud to put my experience to rest and correct the facts any future bench talks I may find myself in . I felt this was more about the motors than the boat, but cool either way. And in relation to what speed the Skater will do with any other motor than one of the 300 3ltr. motor I personally don't think it's revelent and starts another debate, no offense intended at all Tony. Other than, the boat that Banjo owned that did the 105 with the 300X now with a 280 on back produces numbers that although impressive, don't seem to lead one to jump on the 105 bandwagon. Dean

[beer30]

My Skater ran 103.6 with a 15x30 Performance 3 blade, that was with 1.62. The secret with the 21 is the jackplate, the farther you go up the faster the boat will go. I found this out one day in Chincoteague, Va. They had two channels in the way out to the ocean, I thought I was in the wrong channel. So I started to go towards the outer channel, running at about 75 mph, I see a guy off to my left in water only up to his knees. I jacked the engine to between 5 and 6 on the gauge, the speed pickup was huge IMO, looked down was running about 84. I also had a in-boat water pickup which really worked well with the 21 Skater. A better driver then me (and to find one would not be hard) could easily get a 21 with an X close to 110. I think the boat would be VERY CLOSE to edge at that speed. Chuck

[Dean Dorsey]

I will say that I hear many of the same stories, I have just not seen one yet. I too have a second water pick-up so I take her to the blow point a lot without loosing much water pressure. My intention is not to piss anyone off, call them a liar, nor see how many people I can get that share or disagre with my experience Just that I do share his experience and thus that is my belief. If someone could do the dual GPS camera thing, you could HELP us poor souls with different experiences. My main interest is the true power differences in the 3.0 and 3.2 ltr. 300's. But yes I do still have doubts. We can't have all the heavy skaters and weak 300's out here. If it's true I will start blaming slow water out west! Forgot to mention and at the risk of pissing people off. The 110 thing I still believe will never happen in a stock consumer 21 Skater wit the power in question. I would love to eat my words! Dean

[stylishskier]

what 3.0 liter 300 do you have on your boat... you also mention running a TM case? Why? Seems everyone is running SM lowers on their skater 21s... I thought the 300x was more like 330hp, the 300xs was something like 3 on the nose? and the old 300 pm was around 280 or 290? Maybe if you give some ppl like chuck info on your current setup, they'd be able to point you in the direction of going faster... nothing like seeing it with your own two eyes in person, sure it'd make ya happy too ;)

[Dean Dorsey]

Ok I will digress for a moment. This originally was not about how fast a 21 Skater could go with a single 3 ltr 300. It was the fact that I knew Euro was upgrading from the PM 300 to the XS, same exact thing I was considering looking to pin down the difference. I proceeded to take his statment regarding actual vs. stated numbers one step further, and got drawn into this, looking for verified top end numbers with the PM 300 and later jumped into the X noting some discreptancys. I have certainly seen and heard of some variations favoring the lower side of what is claimed. I was not looking for for advise on going faster with the PM 300 I know exactly what to do short of buying a whole new motor or a different hull, but have gone as far as I want to go with the PM 300 now debating the XS.
To answer your question on why am I using a TM over a SM? The short answer is I'm not but own both. I will tell you without reservation that the TM is at least 2.5 MPH faster than the SM on this hull, so why change? Because the SM is much more stable when everything is raised and aired to the max. whether it is the cone attribute or skeg or both, you need to be very careful with the TM and how high you raise the motor. About my motor, I should have better stated as I went on that it is a PM 300, but since my comment was originally meant for Euro and we had already discussed that part I felt that moot. As for mods I did state in a previous post it had every bolt-on mod that Eric Simon offered short of the intake as I use an SVS and a couple of other Wayne Taylor's mods as well, as far as the other stuff it's setup. So I am fairly sure that my motor is making at least 305-310 hp at the prop now and will turn 97 totally aired vs. the prior 93.5 with the TM before mods and about 91 in stock form with the SM. From there I let on to being a bit skeptical about some of the claimed numbers I had heard Vs. what I personally experienced with other 21 Skaters as well as my own. Ok sea level vs. altitude Salt vs. fresh to many variables. So here we are, I am very sure I have a good setup maybe try another prop, been wanting to try a Performance Propeller 4-blade drag copy 14.5X32, may buy me 1 mph more. Other than that I just mentioned that it would be really cool to see the claimed numbers of any big number stock 3 ltr. 300 proven with GPS and a camera, the same way we have all seen it done many times before on different hulls. That would help, because then I and others would know it's the real thing and we truly have a problem with the hull or motor. The vast majority of guys off the record tell me that 92-94 for a stock PM 300 is about the max for this motor and hull combo which is also my experience. That said it is hard to bite on 105-110 when mine moded sees 97OK a bit more if I go back to the TM but that's not an option at those speeds in my mind. Would love to see an ideal condition 105+ run out of an X or Xs even a moded PM if it were possible on the 21 Skater. I would remember that, and work from there based on the variables. Hope that clears some things up. Dean

[dan1731]

some people just cant run these boats.

21 skater 300x = over 100mph no problem

[Dean Dorsey]

Others are all talk. I think the big number was 105 or more. I never had a doubt that the X on that hull could hit 100 + as in 1 or 2 more, the last 3+ is where it gets tough if an XS does 97 stock and not even broken in than the X should do that no problem. Better yet since your so good, I'd settle for an even 100 with a PM 300 from ya can't wait to see your video!

[BANJO]

Don't know where you come up with your info but my boat never went 108:confused:
92 with a PM... you got a weak one.... there are a couple around here that were 100+ with 280's and banjo was 108 with an x.....

[Propster]

My numbers matched Deans. Best I saw in my 21 Skater with a 300 pm with 2 people and 20 gallons fuel was 92. The 300 PM I had was a 2000 model, 1.75 Sportmaster, 30 p 4 blade Perfomance prop. Saw 96.2 with a 3 blade Mazco 34 cleaver, but I could barely get it on plane and it took the whole lake to get to speed. Could have gone a little faster, but the lake was only 1 mile long. My runs were made in fresh water at less than 100 feet above sea level on cool days. The boat might have been faster in salt water at sea level, but I never ran for top speed in the salt. Also, I never ran it without the back seat. Probably would have gained a couple mph without the weight of the back seat.

[150aintenuff]

Don't know where you come up with your info but my boat never went 108:confused:

ill have to look but somewhere on the 2005 rally thred either yourself or one of the others mentioned its speed and i was sure the number was 108.. but maybe my memory was off...

[150aintenuff]

coming from someone who buys seats for their boat from pep boys it
doesnt mean a whole lot. congrats larry. i wouldn't mind having a
300xs on my euro. my 300x must be weak as well since it only has
pushed my euro to 114 so far.

if your going to try to insult me with this atleast get the correct store.... it wasnt pep boys... we dont even have one in the area.

[Dd24skater]

I have seen 99 in Euroski's boat with a 98 300 pm. This was on GPS on a cool day. Engine was very high...just about running out of water. The prop was a 30" lightning ET on the limiter.

Why are you only seeing low 90's?

[at100plus]

I didn't read all of this but I'll just add my 2 cents and a little correction (mine didn't run 98 with the 280, probably could have in the right conditions).

My first 21 Skater with 99 Pro Max 300 (not an X) ran every summer day with my 100lb. wife on board and maybe 30 gals. of gas 93 MPH easily. If I pushed it and jacked it, it would do 95 and, if it was light on fuel and jacked to the moon stretching it out over miles it would do 98.

My 21 that I just sold when it had the 280, I only ran it once. It was a cold October day and it ran 95 easily with about 45 gallons of gas and just me in it. I think with the 300X I never had a chance to try it would easily do over 100.

Banjo said above he never did 108 but I remember him telling me he broke 105. He also said every time he tried to get those numbers he busted his gearcase.

Bottom line, 21 Skater with any 300 power is really a mid 90s boat and if you want to push it (and possibly risk your life) you can bust 100 too.

[at100plus]

92 with a PM... you got a weak one.... there are a couple around here that were 100+ with 280's and banjo was 108 with an x.....


I agree with this, if he was only getting 92 to 93 then he wasn't trying very hard for more. It should have been there. I think if I kept going I would have broken 100 with my PM 300 just takes a long time to get each MPH once your over 95.

Euroski congrats on the new motor anyway, glad it performs better for you.

[at100plus]

I don't want to call anyone a liar, and won't. I will say that I have talked with many guys that have this setup and when talking off the record, I hear the same low to mid 90's numbers. I am talking stock form pleasure 21's have seats, no hatch, rear bench regular layup. I know the hull is capable of much higher speeds, but talking in this config. I like most on this board have been doing this for a long time with many hulls for me since the early 80's. I know there is a lot that can be said for good setup, prop, and driver. Lets face it when you got a pretty good setup the hull is straight and generally good there is only so much a driver can add. You can only lift the motor and trim so far before you swap ends, been damn close to there.
So as for 105 I believe it could be done. I have never seen it and seen quite a few try, my personal belief is that it certainly would be the extreme exception and a great mix of the before mentioned combo and rare motor, and were talking stock or close to stock 3 ltr. motors. As for 110 in that config. the driver would make the difference, he would need to be one of the famous spokesman for the Keebler company. I would believe that one when I personally saw it!


Agree with that wholeheartedly too.

Again, low to mid 90s without killing yourself, and 100 is possible with a 280, 300 PM and even moreso with a 300X or XS but it's really not worth killing yourself once you've set the record for you own personal satisfaction. I tried for 100 once and once was enough.

[Shaun Torrente]

I own a 21 skater that i finished putting together about 3 months ago, most all the time i am with my wife and daughter so do not run her hard all the time... It is powered with a S3000, 20" Offshore mid and 1.87 sportmaster.... The best i have ran is 106 by myself with about 30 gallons of fuel and full interior... that was on a stock champ box bangin the 8650 limter... I have not had time to play with props yet but Dewald is building me a few things to try... All that being said i would love to put a 300xs on just because of the fuel economy and over all driveability (docking and such) compared to my ported s3000... So congrats on the setup do not listen to all the naysayers, enjoy the boat i think it is a great setup

Shaun

[Dean Dorsey]

OK so I see this thing has come full circle and most have opinions that will not change and personal experiences that vary. All are in agreement that the hull is KICK ASS. I realize we are all just splitting hairs anyway, but it's what we do best. I don't think anyone incl. myself doubts that a single 3 ltr. 300 or even a 2.5 280 can in the right circumstances break 100 mph my personal belief about a stock PM 300 doing it aside. The question I pose is will it break 105 and it has been brought up that 110 should be very possible which I highly doubt, after 100 numbers come tough. I stated that personally I had never seen one of these 105+ runs documented, and would relish the opportunity. For a hull this big to do it is in itself says a lot. I don't want to see anyone hurt trying, but if there is a guy or gal out there that does it with some regularity I would think someone could spare a couple of handheld GPS units and a video camera. I won't go into my personal experiences with most traditional water pickup speedos, lets say they don't count. I have even seen two GPS units on the same run vary a bit. Hell I would even believe one GPS unit. So I won't say I am a nay sayer just cautiously optimostic. But I would still like to know more about my original question being the differece on top with this hull between the PM and XS 300's, I have a very good idea on the PM just waiting on the XS finals.
I think we would all agree that the X is still king of the big numbers by at least 1 mph, but again I have also heard that number is a lot more by others.
"Video and GPS "where the rubber hits the road, and the fish that got away swam back and actually as it turns out did easily fit in the boat.

[Shaun Torrente]

I have a monster GPS Speedo and I verified with a handheld garmin.... Most days the boat is about 103-105 but it was cool the day i ran 106 and had the box set just right.... I know what my 2.5 makes for horsepower because they are all broke in and run ion a dyno.... Keep in mind i have not finished dialing the boat in yet, it will go faster...

Shaun

[stylishskier]

question... why is it that twins are safer running up the big numbers? Is it because of 2 props opposing the torque the other is delivering, is it because the mids/lowers are not in the tunnel, combination of both? Or is it because you have to be much more aggressive with setup with a single to eek out the last few mph? Maybe its all of that.

I guess I just didn't get why you say it gets flighty around 100(and I don't doubt your experiences...) and guys with twins have gone into the 120s, I thouht I saw a post of a 21 with twin S3000s running 130+ on radar...
(numbers found in posts from the past through searchs)

In a SOB thread a while back I could have sworn I heard the name banjo coupled with 108... as herb was at 107 at the time in his intimidator... thats prolly where 150 got his number, as I've heard it as well, key word "heard"...

[Wizard]

It's easy to run 100mph on the internet. All it takes is three keystrokes! :eek: :D :D :D :D

Nice rig dude! A Skater with a 300XS on it. Don't get much better than that! :cool:

[Dean Dorsey]

Shaun, If you have a consumer weight 21 and a stock 2.5 260 or 280 that gets those numbers, and have a GPS sounds like your the man for the video job and associated fame. If you can do stated numbers with stock gear I would not certainly not doubt equal or better from the X. I have pondered given the problems getting on plane which displacement motor would be best for this hull. As for the instability of the hull around 100, the only reason for it in my experience is the exessive motor heights and use of trim angles needed to try to reach those numbers. A crabbing thing starts happening if your lucky if not a total prop blowout if to high. That is why a SM lower is preferable on this setup for a margin of safety, because it's definately not speed. Wizard funny, I laughed hard at the key stroke speed run thing which is exactly my point. At the same time I realize there might guys out there that can and would love to see it documented on video!

[stylishskier]

Shaun, If you have a consumer weight 21 and a stock 2.5 260 or 280 that gets those numbers, and have a GPS sounds like your the man for the video job and associated fame. If you can do stated numbers with stock gear I would not certainly not doubt equal or better from the X. I have pondered given the problems getting on plane which displacement motor would be best for this hull. As for the instability of the hull around 100, the only reason for it in my experience is the exessive motor heights and use of trim angles needed to try to reach those numbers. A crabbing thing starts happening if your lucky if not a total prop blowout if to high. That is why a SM lower is preferable on this setup for a margin of safety, because it's definately not speed. Wizard funny, I laughed hard at the key stroke speed run thing which is exactly my point. At the same time I realize there might guys out there that can and would love to see it documented on video!

he runs an S3000 powerhead... which is ported and modded from the sounds of it, which may explain a little more about the numbers he's finding;)

in general how much speed do you lose from having a passenger when you are running way on top? Seems like you're asking for a bit much there dorsey... operate a single skater 100+ and eye the camera down to see the GPS???

[BANJO]

20in 300X, 1.62, 30p re3, 106.1, thru hull water pickup and many broken skegs.

[stylishskier]

you didn't ever have a 15" mad mid on that boat, did you?

[Dean Dorsey]

Not asking any more than I have heard claimed college BOY. I really don't have a super interest in what a 2.5 will do on top with this hull, just that if it could as I have heard, it would be very reasonable that at least one of the other three ltr. plus motors could produce a bit more. From the start I was interested in difference in PM and XS 300's and what was claimed Vs. what others I had talked with experienced. The rest came in the form of claims and differences of opinion. Best way to put it to rest would be to captured it on video to settle all the doubts. As for how to film this run, it's not rocket science, you fix the camera on the GPS during the run, or directly there after W/O shutting camera off get a shot of the GPS, they all have a setting for best speed attained and will hold that speed. What ya gonna throw out next! Just shoot the video or lets drop the thing and let everyone have their own beliefs! My interest is in the XS anyway!

[BANJO]

Do you have video of your GPS at speed we could all look at?
Not asking any more than I have heard claimed college BOY. I really don't have a super interest in what a 2.5 will do on top with this hull, just that if it could as I have heard, it would be very reasonable that at least one of the other three ltr. plus motors could produce a bit more. From the start I was interested in difference in PM and XS 300's and what was claimed Vs. what others I had talked with experienced. The rest came in the form of claims and differences of opinion. Best way to put it to rest would be to captured it on video to settle all the doubts. As for how to film this run, it's not rocket science, you fix the camera on the GPS during the run, or directly there after W/O shutting camera off get a shot of the GPS, they all have a setting for best speed attained and will hold that speed. What ya gonna throw out next! Just shoot the video or lets drop the thing and let everyone have their own beliefs! My interest is in the XS anyway!

[150aintenuff]

ok so I was off by 2 MPH.. excuse me.... 106.. not 108.. i knew it was over 105 but less than 110.. BFD.. it is hard to believe the X is that much stronger than the promax or the XS... i could see 10 HP but not enough for 11-13 MPH... that was my only point... nothing more....but I also could have sworn you told me at the first rally that it would run 108 when it wasnt broken.... personally I dont think I saw the boat run more than 40 mph... because it was broken the first time i saw it, the second time I saw it you were cruising to a stop and the last time I saw it it was again broken.. and then last year you had the 24.... so I never got the chance to see with my own eyes just if it was 106, 96, or 108... it isnt like it makes that much of a difference in the scheem of things...

[Shaun Torrente]

Let me just repeat my point again, if i had a choice in engine right now i would buy a 300xs... That being said i run a 2.5 because it was more convenient and cost effective for me when i put the boat together because i run champ and had access to the parts and engine builder for our team which is Wayne Worthy. Wayne has done an excellent job for our team this year developing an engine program, and we had a very good first race. There is no reason for me to lie about this, i can not give dyno #'s because there are other people on this forum that we compete against, so i would rather not say but they are more than what has been advertised for an X and the 2.5 wieghs about 135lbs less. The boat absolutely gets loose over 100 but if you drive it correctly and responsibly there are somethings you can do to make it a little bit safer... when i made the 106 run i went straight in to the wind because when you get the gearcase out of the water you definately do not want a cross wind. The prop that i was running is a 14 3/4 diameter, like any hi perf boat engine height is critical as i made the run i was right about 98 and i went up on the jack the last inch and the boat hit another gear, went right past 100 finished the run because i was running out bay (running perpindicular to shore) hit the recall and it was 106 and a tad... Also i recieved my first prop from dewald yesterday, brand new casting so we will see how it runs!!!

Shaun

[Pro300x24LD]

question... why is it that twins are safer running up the big numbers? Is it because of 2 props opposing the torque the other is delivering, is it because the mids/lowers are not in the tunnel, combination of both? Or is it because you have to be much more aggressive with setup with a single to eek out the last few mph? Maybe its all of that.

I guess I just didn't get why you say it gets flighty around 100(and I don't doubt your experiences...) and guys with twins have gone into the 120s, I thouht I saw a post of a 21 with twin S3000s running 130+ on radar...
(numbers found in posts from the past through searchs)


Twins are probably safer for a couple of reasons as you already mentioned, 2 props opposing the torque, two skegs keeping the boat straight. More power to push the boat so you can run with more boat in the water and overcome the drag with power...all leading to stability and safety.

Either way I would opt for the 300xs, reliable, gas mileage, and an every day 85-90 mph boat with conservative set up.

Anyone want my 300x? Trade it for a 300xs and a few $$ :D

[Dean Dorsey]

Ok good points made by all! In my typical long fashion I will post this last thread in attempt to slow this train down as I don't see it going anywhere. I don't want to and am not calling anyone a liar. Your right Shaun you have no reason to falsely boast and have no doubt that you are being honest, I have heard to many like stories to not think it is possible. I thought it would be great if someone would finally put a run with documented speed on film. Looks like that is probably not going to happen. I agree to points made about the XS as well. I will pull from this that very different results can be obtained in different regions. I will also say that temps, altitude, salt vs. fresh, and humidity have a lot more to do with it than driver. Seat time is king, and most of us have more of it than commercial pilots. Besides were talking straight line speed rather than closed course skilled racing. Other than seat time, experimentation with setup, overall experience and BIG GRAPES there's not that much to it.
Banjo, I think it is very probable you did what you said. On the salt water Sound, cool day as always, and extremly light load, wish I could have seen it. My hull is Tavis's old one, I really like the guy so don't get me wrong here if you know him. His Avatar showed a pic of my hull at Cresent Bar and the caption read 103.8 underneath. Ain't no way this hull setup the way he had it ever ran 103.8 with the PM . I have all his old props even with a Keebler Elf driving no way! We eeked out just over 90 on Lake Washington on an ideal moderate day, 2 of us moderate fuel and ran WOT from the 405 bridge to Kenmore, he was driving. I have run into that exact same senario 4 other times with 21 Skaters in the past, and numerous other hulls as well. So excuse my being somewhat skeptical on claims. To answer your question: Do you have footage of a GPS run. In the Skater no, with an Awesome Cat 20 with a Marles built 300+ hp 2.5 yes. I took it to prove a negative point about how not only dangerous but slow this hull was. I offered to do it with mine but fail to see how it would prove anything, since my max. here is 97mph with a now modified PM 300. You don't need a fancy stand for the camera, 2 strips of commercial 1.5 wide adhesive backed velcro works great. I just got a great idea, since I have the camera, my boat works and the season is right, see if you can borrow your old hull back from Jason for a few runs, I think he still owns it. I'm sure you know there is a poker run on Chelan July 6-7. He came over last year, on your way stop off here not sure if you did since I have never personally met you. We can all go out on the Columbia, camera's, multiple GPS and figure this out. I know it has a 280 now, but that may be the best of all worlds. I think you still own the X so even throw it back on for the weekend. If nothing else I predict I will show the environment thing has a big impact. I will make a prediction about speeds if this were to happen. If it had the X motor here I think the 106+ would turn into 99-101 tops, with the 280 96-99, and my PM, dead-on or slightly faster than the 280 on your old hull. If nothing else it would give straighten some things out, we'd have fun, and think of the mileage it would get on this board. Dean

[Dean Dorsey]

Gabe, I appreciate the offer, but it's going to be 94 degrees both days this weekend here. I'll be prowling just above Rocky Reach where I can always be found. I will have both with me. If you come this way I will shoot your run which will be about 99 with luck. If I'm onboard probably 97. And if they bring back the Whaler Days run like I'm hearing is a possibility, I will do the same there where we both know you will be faster. I really would like to see if some of these speeds even come close to holding up over here. If not I will take you up on it before the summer is done.

[Euroski]

I been very busy lately to reply, so keeping things short I'm glad this thread produced some real world numbers. As for myself I "drive" alot on the conservative side of life. Same when I had my STV. That said... anyone who has a video of their 21 Skater running I will gladly upload it to my personal server for all to view. No adds, no comercials, no limits. Make it as big as you want! Just PM me when you got the video done.

[fastcat300]

The Problem Is That Nobodys Completly Honest,and As You All Know Everybodys Boats,runs Completely Different Every Day Of The Week.some Days Better Than Others,it Would Be Great If Someone Would Do A Test With These 2 Motors On The Same Day With The Same Props So We Could Get Some For Real #s.......ive Heard From A Friend That The 300xs Is 3-4 Mph Slower On A Flats Boat That He Builds And Rigs,and Not Just 1 But Every 1 Hes Repowered.....

[stevek]

Hey Euroski, you have one of the nicest 21' Skaters I have seen on the board. 3 to 8 mph speed differentials, pfft. Who cares, enjoy the ride. Its a fast boat.

[Ospreyproduction]

I have had 21 boats now and I must say that this is the one that I wish I had never of sold.

It must be great with the 300XS on it, no matter what anyone says.

[Ospreyproduction]

Here is the best phot that was ever taken of the boat.

Photo was taken by Lamar at the Toys for Tots run on the St. Johns River.

[time warp]

Gabe, I appreciate the offer, but it's going to be 94 degrees both days this weekend here. I'll be prowling just above Rocky Reach where I can always be found. I will have both with me. If you come this way I will shoot your run which will be about 99 with luck. If I'm onboard probably 97. And if they bring back the Whaler Days run like I'm hearing is a possibility, I will do the same there where we both know you will be faster. I really would like to see if some of these speeds even come close to holding up over here. If not I will take you up on it before the summer is done.
Dean,
Don't know what the Whaler Days run is but if you mean the Around Bainbridge Island run that was done on the Last weekend in July, there is no plan to bring that run back at this time, there is a Performance boat Rendezvous that weekend now, there is going to be a Fun Run this Saturday June 2nd out of Edmonds that may be the run you are hearing as a possibility, it may be around Bainbridge Island but Joe Malich is putting it together and has not released any facts about the route. I think it's a little far fetched to think that someone who sold a boat could go borrow it back from the new owner and bring it over to you so you can video tape it??? You say you aren't calling Banjo and Gabe liars but then continue to go on saying that the numbers they are reporting don't sound right to you. I did not see Banjo Run 106, but I saw his boat go over 103 and I have seen the GPS readout on Gabe's 21 with a 105.something. Yes these happened on the Salt at sea level, are they repeatable in Wenatchee, I don't know but would guess not, I do know that both of those boats will run over 100 consistently so running 105 when conditions are perfect does not seem far fetched to me. My Spectre runs in the upper 90's to right at 100 anytime but I have seen 108 when light on fuel and conditions were right. On the River at Crescent bar the best I've seen was 101.something, that doesn't mean it hasn't gone 108, just that with the elevation and heat change it won't do it there.
Hopefully you can make it over to Edmonds this Saturday, I know that it will be the closest to the old around Bainbridge run that will happen this year. Or come over the next weekend for the Leukemia Cup poker run that will be going around Bainbridge from Elliot bay and up to Edmonds and back, it will be very simular to the Poker Run that JJ put on in 1994. If you can't make it over for one of those weekends maybe you could make it down to Crescent Bar the weekend after labor day, I'm sure Gabe will have his 21 there that weekend, it would be cool to get video tape of the GPS in my Spectre even, I'm to cheap to own a video camera.
For info on these events see www.nwoffshore.com

Caleb

[150aintenuff]

caleb and others the planning for the NW rally is up in the upcomming events thred... dont forget to put you 2 cents in for this years rally... and I know gabes boat runs 100+ it did it before he had the motor gone through and freshened up... their numbers are legit.. as far as the 108### maybe it was caleb's boat i was confusing with banjos.. oh well.. like it makes any difference..

[Dean Dorsey]

Caleb, Thanks for clarifying the Bainbridge VS. Whaler Days run thing up. I should have known it would never be possible to run any sort of race up Dyes Inlet again now that the Orca's have made a home of it. Not such a bad thing, as running nose to tail and side to side with 50 + boats at 70+ mph in something that narrow was a disaster waiting to happen. Doing that scared the shi!! out of me. Any one boat went dead and he and anyone next to or behind him were history.
Would love to be there this weekend but have made plans from a few wks. back over here and the weather is to great. In Canada next weekend for a hockey tournment. Chelan for sure, barring the wood problem from last year.
I have no doubt at this point they can do the speeds they claimed. Gabe sent me a PM with his numbers from Cresent Bar with girl friend and 20 gal. of fuel. If he can pull those there with her it is certainly believable that he did what he said. Like I said I got started predominately with claims I had not seen lived up to by 21's powered by either powered by PM 300's or 260 horn motors. You 260 guys don't jump on me, I was talking stock. I have had plenty of them and I know what kind of power they can make when built by the right guy.
In conclusion on average here is what I have gleened from this in relation to use on a Skater 21. First (Liability Waiver) Information was gained from a combo of personal experience, about 75 PMs, and this general post, author cannot be shot, sued, or otherwise threatened for it's content. 1) Getting on plane with this hull the 2.5 280 is king 260 close second. 2) speed king in stock form is the 300X over the 280 by 2-3 mph. 3) Third in stock form seems to be the XS (info., there is to limited as the motor is so new). At this point but seems to point to somewhere between 97-100, though in the end I think it will be a dead heat with th 280 and XS. 4) Pulling up the end with the bushy tail, are the 260 and PM 300. My own personal experience is that the PM300 will pull it on this hull by about 2 mph, though I have heard much to the contrary. At this point the only reason I could see for putting a PM 300 on one is for a little extra longevity, not mixing oil, and a tad more economy over the 260, as the 260 will seemingly pull the PM out of the hole, and this is a weak area for the 21. This is no doubt due to the weight of the PM and how rich they are programed on the bottom . Finally the answer to my personal question: What is the AVERAGE top end for a stock for a PM 300 on a 21 Skater, and how will that compare to the XS. Answer: Average 92-95mph, XS should pull it by 3-4 mph.
I know many will have contratictory info. to PM me, but when were talking averages this is how it shakes out with what I have recieved. Dean

[stylishskier]

Caleb, Thanks for clarifying the Bainbridge VS. Whaler Days run thing up. I should have known it would never be possible to run any sort of race up Dyes Inlet again now that the Orca's have made a home of it. Not such a bad thing, as running nose to tail and side to side with 50 + boats at 70+ mph in something that narrow was a disaster waiting to happen. Doing that scared the shi!! out of me. Any one boat went dead and he and anyone next to or behind him were history.
Would love to be there this weekend but have made plans from a few wks. back over here and the weather is to great. In Canada next weekend for a hockey tournment. Chelan for sure, barring the wood problem from last year.
I have no doubt at this point they can do the speeds they claimed. Gabe sent me a PM with his numbers from Cresent Bar with girl friend and 20 gal. of fuel. If he can pull those there with her it is certainly believable that he did what he said. Like I said I got started predominately with claims I had not seen lived up to by 21's powered by either powered by PM 300's or 260 horn motors. You 260 guys don't jump on me, I was talking stock. I have had plenty of them and I know what kind of power they can make when built by the right guy.
In conclusion on average here is what I have gleened from this in relation to use on a Skater 21. First (Liability Waiver) Information was gained from a combo of personal experience, about 75 PMs, and this general post, author cannot be shot, sued, or otherwise threatened for it's content. 1) Getting on plane with this hull the 2.5 280 is king 260 close second. 2) speed king in stock form is the 300X over the 280 by 2-3 mph. 3) Third in stock form seems to be the XS (info., there is to limited as the motor is so new). At this point but seems to point to somewhere between 97-100, though in the end I think it will be a dead heat with th 280 and XS. 4) Pulling up the end with the bushy tail, are the 260 and PM 300. My own personal experience is that the PM300 will pull it on this hull by about 2 mph, though I have heard much to the contrary. At this point the only reason I could see for putting a PM 300 on one is for a little extra longevity, not mixing oil, and a tad more economy over the 260, as the 260 will seemingly pull the PM out of the hole, and this is a weak area for the 21. This is no doubt due to the weight of the PM and how rich they are programed on the bottom . Finally the answer to my personal question: What is the AVERAGE top end for a stock for a PM 300 on a 21 Skater, and how will that compare to the XS. Answer: Average 92-95mph, XS should pull it by 3-4 mph.
I know many will have contratictory info. to PM me, but when were talking averages this is how it shakes out with what I have recieved. Dean


sounds good, conservative numbers on some but also gotta consider, the big numbers don't happen every day by every joe who owns this boat. I think everyone can agree with your study

[Ospreyproduction]

The depth of this discussion is amazing.....in a wierd way.

[Euroski]

Lee, it's all my fault for hanging the new 300xs technology on the Skater. Only been out twice, but want to play around again tomorrow if it's not raining. Dean, as for getting up on plane... the 300XS blows away the old 300PM on that task even with 40gal gas and with the engine up about 1/2 way on the jack plate. It goes through and lessens the porpoise zone which has to do with the added torque. Anyone got a 32P prop that would be willing to let me try?

[Dean Dorsey]

Trying to get the big numbers I starved mine for water today and toasted it. I didn't think it possible with through hull water intake as well. Well ya can't say I wasn't really trying. Upside is I have all sorts of power options to look at, and a lot of info. to go on. I don't see it as weird just well informed. Thanks Euro for the input that is the way I am looking, rather than a rebuild. Must admit also still thinking about the X. Sorry no 32 prop. Thanks, Dean

[Dutch]

larry,
you come out here for a day, got a 32 you can try.
matt

[Dirk Pitt]

Great thread,

just wondering what are the differences between a stock CLE vs a stock sportmaster..

[tux974]

Great thread,

just wondering any differences between a stock CLE vs a stock sportmaster..

Dirk,
You DO NOT want to run a CLE on a 21 Skater:eek: I broke two or three skegs not fun:eek: Sportmaster is the way to go.
The CLE will probably be faster but not safer.
TL

[Euroski]

A short video teaser... might even hear the 300XS if you got the volume up? Will post more once edited and done.



www.stvowners.com/media/teaser300XSskater.wmv (http://www.stvowners.com/media/teaser300XSskater.wmv)

[stevek]

Nice video. Looks like she is running good with the new motor.

[150aintenuff]

herd a slight low growl at only 1 point in the whole vid...... damn dats quiet....

[150aintenuff]

Dirk,
You DO NOT want to run a CLE on a 21 Skater:eek: I broke two or three skegs not fun:eek: Sportmaster is the way to go.
The CLE will probably be faster but not safer.
TL

from what Ive seen even the sportys break......... and from what banjo saw it occured fairly often as well...

[150aintenuff]

I FOUND THE BANJO AT 108 STATMENTS.....


on the thred regarding herbs intimidator


In fact the fastest 300x powered 21 Skater that I have heard of is Banjo @ 108


Sorry for the confustion regarding Banjo's boat guys, no that was not a pic of a 108 mph pass, just a pic of his boat running,


But he did tell me his best is 108 and that is the fastest single engine 21 skater I have ever heard of, anyone hear of a faster one??


heres the thred.... post 17 and 28

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95859&highlight=108+MPH+skater

[1BadAction]

will you STFU about that already. jeeze, no wonder you get banned from every other site you get on.

[150aintenuff]

will you STFU about that already. jeeze, no wonder you get banned from every other site you get on.

i just knew the posts were made.... and now i can say that i found where i got my information...... nothing more..... now wether or not banjo made the statement to scott while bench racin that may never be known... personally i dont care.... i just wanted to show i didnt make up my original statment of banjo at 108..... nuthing ferther..

and 1 bad... some of us dont care what your opinion is...

[1BadAction]

thats neat, cause no one cares what your opinion is, even though you run your piehole on every thread possible. did you tell GM they have been building trailblazers wrong yet? :rolleyes:

[150aintenuff]

thats neat, cause no one cares what your opinion is, even though you run your piehole on every thread possible. did you tell GM they have been building trailblazers wrong yet? :rolleyes:

yep i did... told them you need to lower them 3 inches so mexi's and persons of darker skined decent can rub their trans and ass ends along every curb in town....

[1BadAction]

yea ok, whatever you say guruman.

[Pro300x24LD]

i just knew the posts were made.... and now i can say that i found where i got my information...... nothing more..... now wether or not banjo made the statement to scott while bench racin that may never be known... personally i dont care.... i just wanted to show i didnt make up my original statment of banjo at 108..... nuthing ferther..

and 1 bad... some of us dont care what your opinion is...I prefer 1bads opinion to your jibberish.....my boat did 85 in a 4 foot chop, but of course I used your tape measure