DFI OIL Required or not !!!

[diskvalve]

My 2004 merc 250 XS has a sticker on it that says " Mercury Premium Plus Oil is highly recommended ". I know that the premium plus is very good oil but it is also NOT what is considered a DFI oil. I have no problem with running a non DFI oil if mercury recommends it, BUT THIS OPENS UP A COMPLETELY NEW QUESTION. If the non DFI Premium Plus oil is highly recommended would this not also mean that another TCW-3 oil like Shell Nautilus or others would be fine as well ? I phoned the 1-800 number for tech support on the Shell Nautilus oil jug and quickly discovered that the tech people (two of them) were not even aware that a DFI specific oil even existed. For that matter they did not even seem to know what DFI meant and kept insisting that "yes " their Nautilus Oil was suitable for Direct "Oil injection " as well as Pre-Mix . I then tried to clarify the difference between Direct Fuel Injection and EFI and that I was NOT referring to the oil injection system but rather the fuel injection system and its lubrication requirements. Again I got empty responses and then I asked if they even knew what either Merc or BRP or Yam called their DFI system and as I guessed ;they could not tell me. I gave them a quick rundown explaining stratified vs homogenized ,Optimax and E-TEC Ficht and HPDI and they admitted they had not heard of DFI. This was NOT very confidence inspiring I said and finally got them to agree to bring up this DFI technology at the next board meeting. They did say that if Premium Plus was recommended for this Optimax DFI tecnology that their Nautilus Oil is every bit as good ;if not better than Premium Plus. I am a tad skeptical because of their lack of knowledge concerning the now decade old DFI technology that they might not really know if the Nautilus is acceptable. It would seem to me that if Premium Plus is recommended then any similarly rated TCW-3 oil should work great and not cost so much ; and that DFI specific oil is just a marketing scam to gouge. thoughts please --- mike

[SSIMPALA71]

I asked the same question to a friend of mine @ Mercury who works in the R & D department. His response was like this: Both engines are considered DFI but the racing engines were only researched and tested with premium plus oil. The standard opti engine had testing and labs done on both oils and found that the DFI oil was better for the end user in average situations. That still confused me. He did clarify after that by saying use only premium plus oil in the race engine and DFI oil in all other standard opti's. Hope that helps some--take that for what you will in comparison to the other brands of oil!!

[trashy]

Oil gets discussed here and on other boards quite a bit. Use the search function to see those discussions.

My simple answer to a question like yours, especially when the subject of price comes up is very simple. What is going to cost more, spending a few extra dollars on oil that the manufacturer recomends, or spending a lot of extra dollars rebuilding a failed motor?

[Markus]

What is going to cost more, spending a few extra dollars on oil that the manufacturer recomends, or spending a lot of extra dollars rebuilding a failed motor?

The answer to that is easy. Here is another question:

If Mercury really is better than the lube companies at formulating motor oils, why don't they enter the 4-stroke automotive oil market as well? They leave a lot of money on the table by concentrating on 2-stroke outboards...

[Dd24skater]

Oh boy...here we go again!!

I use Premium + in my 250 xs's.....

[1BadAction]

Oil gets discussed here and on other boards quite a bit. Use the search function to see those discussions.

i wholeheartedly agree with you on this (lol) but i dont think there has ever been any discussion on the DFI oils. I always thought ALL optis needed DFI oil because of the injection ratio and viscosity. seems like the opti oil is thinner (to me anyhow) than the regular stuff. If they tell you regular oil is fine, then the alisyn would be perfect, IMO.

[shep70057]

Straight from Mercury!! The original question follows the responce from Merc.

Mr. Sheppard:

Thank you for your recent E-mail regarding your 2006 225-horsepower Mercury
OptiMax ProXS engine, serial number 1BXXXX72. We appreciate the
opportunity to respond to your concerns.

The OptiMax oil will not harm your engine. The OptiMax engine is designed
to provide sufficient oil, even in cold temperatures. The Premium Plus oil
is designed for use in slightly warmer temperatures. They are very
similar, but we recommend using the Premium Plus oil, as specified in the
engine's Owner's Manual.

Should you have any further questions or concerns, please contact our
Customer Service department at 920-929-5040 between the hours of 7:30 a.m.
and 5:30 p.m., Monday through Friday, CST.

Sincerely,

Outboard Customer Service
Ref: 2006-175253




Contact Request:
Name: Americo Sheppard
Address:
City/State: Hahnville/LA
Zip: 70057

Home Phone: 504 4154198 (Morning)
Work Phone: 504 4154198 (Morning)

Email Address: [email protected]

Serial Number: 1Bxxxxx
Model Number: 12xxxx
Dealer Name: Capt. Kirks Marine
Boat Manufacturer: Polar
Boat Model: Bay 2100

Contact By: E-Mail

Comments:
I bought this 225 Optimax Pro XS and assumed it ran Optimax oil. I ran
about 2 gallons through it then realized that it called for Premium Plus
oil. Is it o.k. to run Optimax oil through this motor or does it need
Premium Plus?? If so, why?? I mean, the manual states to do so and that
is what I plan on doing, but what is the reasoning behind running a semi
synthetic oil vs a fully synthetic oil. I've asked around on different
forums and of course the "Because the book says so" answer seems to be the
norm.

So all in all, will running opti oil hurt an optimax pro xs??

Thanks for your time.

Mercury Marine
[email protected]
<!--NOVELL_REWRITER_OFF-->http://www.mercurymarine.com (http://www.mercurymarine.com/)<!--NOVELL_REWRITER_ON-->

[diskvalve]

I think that you guys are missing my point. I know the DFI oil will not harm anything and I know that mercury recommends Premium plus ,which is NOT a DFI oil. My point is ;Mercury Premium plus is just another TCW-3 oil; if premium plus is what mercury recommends then why would,nt another non DFI oil rated TCW-3 work as well. Shell assures me their Nautilus is better than Premium Plus Mercury and that Mercury does not make their own oil. I know the easy answer is just run what mercury tells ya and be done with it , but, if nautilus is better and costs half as much then why run the Premium Plus? I really am not trying to be a wiseass but I realize it may be coming accross this way . --- mike

[Markus]

Shell assures me their Nautilus is better than Premium Plus Mercury and that Mercury does not make their own oil. I know the easy answer is just run what mercury tells ya and be done with it , but, if nautilus is better and costs half as much then why run the Premium Plus?

Exactly.

[Way2Lean]

I'd say Yes, I agree.

[msm]

Hey Diskvalve,

After reading this thread, I checked in my E-TEC (Evinrude DFI) operator's guide and it said you can run any oil that meets NMMA TC-W3RL certification standards. I've never seen the RL part before and I'm wondering if the Optimax calls for TC-W3RL?

Interestingly enough, the highly recommended XD100 oil I've been using has no mention of TC-W3RL on the label. There just seems to be more loose ends the more I look into this. :confused:

[diskvalve]

I agree ; more confusion is not good. With the sticker on my XS saying premium plus is recommended; that should also mean any good TCW-3 oil can be substituted. --- mike

[Euroski]

My just purchased 300XS states the same to use Premium Plus TCW3 oil in the manual and on the oil tank. I'm going to do the break in on that oil but may switch to Pennzoil 100% synthetic afterwards. Wonder if the Merc DFI oil is 100% synthetic or not, but for $30/gal it should be.

[props4u2]

tcw-3 premium plus & tcw-3 oils are not the same, premium plus has more additives, (detergents) to help knock out carbon build up. O/B oil only has to be BIA certified one time to become certified as tcw-3 or tcw-3 premium plus, who do you think is more likely to stay in the certified specs., the regular oil companies or the manufactures that are warranting these things for up to 7 yrs.? True Mercury does not produce their own oil but it is made to their specs.. If someone is paying $30.00 a gallon for premium plus I suggest you find a dealer that sells bulk out of a 55 gal. drum, much cheaper.
Go ahead & bash all you want, facts are facts.


Lee

[mattm24tx]

I see alot of engines come through the shop running mercurys oil and other manufactures penziol,citco ect. and the amount of carbon build up is alot more than with the merc oils, yamalube or the brp stuff. This is just what I have seen in my own experince. Even when you run the manufactures oil you should be running quickleen, ring free or carbon guard.

Just a thought If you are spending the kind of $$ that these engines cost why would you try to skimp on something like oil and not run what the manufacture recomends.

[trashy]

The answer to that is easy. Here is another question:

If Mercury really is better than the lube companies at formulating motor oils, why don't they enter the 4-stroke automotive oil market as well? They leave a lot of money on the table by concentrating on 2-stroke outboards...
I never said that Mercury is better, I was just stating that if they recommend a certain oil for their motor, then that's what I'm going to run, especially if the motor is under warranty. I really don't know how much other "less expensive" oils cost, but to me, $16 a gallon for Premium Plus is a small price to pay. The way I see it, oil is the lifeblood of an engine. Why try to scrimp and save for something like that, especially compared to the price of a new power head?

It really makes no difference to me what anyone chooses to run in THEIR motors. All I'm saying is that Mercury Premium Plus is all that has ever been run on MY motor since it was new (1997 EFI), and it's all that will be run through it as long as I own it.

I am by no means an expert, that's just my opinion.

[Markus]

I never said that Mercury is better, I was just stating that if they recommend a certain oil for their motor, then that's what I'm going to run, especially if the motor is under warranty. I really don't know how much other "less expensive" oils cost, but to me, $16 a gallon for Premium Plus is a small price to pay. The way I see it, oil is the lifeblood of an engine. Why try to scrimp and save for something like that, especially compared to the price of a new power head?

It really makes no difference to me what anyone chooses to run in THEIR motors. All I'm saying is that Mercury Premium Plus is all that has ever been run on MY motor since it was new (1997 EFI), and it's all that will be run through it as long as I own it.

I am by no means an expert, that's just my opinion.

If you care about your engine, add another $4 per gallon and get some real synthetic.

[miami14680]

I use DFI oil on both DFI create less carbon buildup. That is why so manny opti has a problem in the DFI injectors (wrong oil) I Never have a problem using DFI oil.

Regards
Pete

[Diablo Dan]

We've had this discussion at the shop before also.

We have a customer that has a 115 Opti on a center console fishing boat and chose to run an off brand TCW-3 oil because the owner's manual says that TCW-3 can be used.
He trolls 80% of the time ( 40 of 60 hrs on motor were at idle speeds).
He has spark plug fouling issues. I think that if he ran the boat normally ( on plane the majority of the time) or with DFI oil, he would not have the problem.

TCW-3 is intended to be mixed with gas. DFI oil is injected directly into the crankcase. Different oils, different applications.

The XS motors come from Mercury's Racing division.
They runs their stuff on the Premium Plus oil. These are not the production Opti's.
They run different spark plugs, different ECU calibrations for fuel, timing and oil, and are not usually for Sunday cruises around the lake.
They are made to " Scream and Fly " .
The engineers probably feel that Premium Plus provides better lubrication under the intended use.

As far as using another TCW-3 oil, If it meets the TCW-3 standard and is labled by a major company, preferably one that manufactures engines, I would feel comfortable using it.

Mercury only reccomends using Quicksilver labled products be it fuel stabilizer, oil, antifreeze, gear lube etc.
That is not to say that the products aren't as good or better than Merc's, but from a marketing & warranty standpoint I can see where they're coming from.

Sierra lables their products to be comparible to Quicksilver, but is there a difference?
I believe so.
Some oils are engineered to meet the MINIMUM requirements, some to exceed.

If anyone is interested, here is an outline of the NMMA requirements to become TCW-3 certified.
http://www.nmma.org/certification/local/downloads/documents/TC-W3-CertTestManual%20_6-06.pdf

Dan

[miami14680]

We've had this discussion at the shop before also.

We have a customer that has a 115 Opti on a center console fishing boat and chose to run an off brand TCW-3 oil because the owner's manual says that TCW-3 can be used.
He trolls 80% of the time ( 40 of 60 hrs on motor were at idle speeds).
He has spark plug fouling issues. I think that if he ran the boat normally ( on plane the majority of the time) or with DFI oil, he would not have the problem.

TCW-3 is intended to be mixed with gas. DFI oil is injected directly into the crankcase. Different oils, different applications.

The XS motors come from Mercury's Racing division.
They runs their stuff on the Premium Plus oil. These are not the production Opti's.
They run different spark plugs, different ECU calibrations for fuel, timing and oil, and are not usually for Sunday cruises around the lake.
They are made to " Scream and Fly " .
The engineers probably feel that Premium Plus provides better lubrication under the intended use.

As far as using another TCW-3 oil, If it meets the TCW-3 standard and is labled by a major company, preferably one that manufactures engines, I would feel comfortable using it.

Mercury only reccomends using Quicksilver labled products be it fuel stabilizer, oil, antifreeze, gear lube etc.
That is not to say that the products aren't as good or better than Merc's, but from a marketing & warranty standpoint I can see where they're coming from.

Sierra lables their products to be comparible to Quicksilver, but is there a difference?
I believe so.
Some oils are engineered to meet the MINIMUM requirements, some to exceed.

If anyone is interested, here is an outline of the NMMA requirements to become TCW-3 certified.
http://www.nmma.org/certification/local/downloads/documents/TC-W3-CertTestManual%20_6-06.pdf

Dan

Exactly what I think(much better type and inglish offcourse:D :D )

[ghind]

I dislike Shell Nautilus oil, it made my carby yamaha smoke and smell whereas Yamalube was great.

I wouldn't use it in a DFI because I feel it doesn't burn cleanly, but have no basis other than the above.

Besides that, it smelled and smoked. Who wants a DFI to do this?

[Jeff_G]

I recommend the Premium Plus to the users of XS motors. I recommend the DFI oil to the "stock" Opti users as that is the recommended oils.
For all other motors except the E-tec which we don't work on I recommend the Premium Plus. As a minimum the Premium, both Quicksilver.
I have seen far too many motors coked with gas station and department store brands.
Personally I get the best results with the Premium Plus, even better than Pennzoil 100% Synthetic.
While racing I have tried just about every oil out there. Anyone want to buy som Redline cart oil or Castor oil?

Mercury has to stand behind it's products. What is Shell's liability for it's oils?

[XSive]

If you care about your engine, add another $4 per gallon and get some real synthetic.


So you know that these oils work well in Direct Injection motors? No carbon build up, no other issues, and certainly better than the Premium Plus? Remember, we're talking direct injection here.