What was the fastest recorded speed with an inline

[KG4]

Just curious.Thanks

[willabee]

Just curious.Thanks

136.381 is the fastest "recorded" that I'm aware of.......1973

[Bruce Washburn]

Jim Merten Sr. 2 way average 136 or 139

[warrior74z]

Hey Willabee, What's the deal with Merten's hydro? It looks like a modern photo and I notice it looks like 1980's decals on the Merc. Also looks like it was make at an airport. About 1990 my boat owner went to Merten Junior's place to get some engine advice on our Unlimited Outboard Drag boat "The Sting" and he said he thought he saw that boat in the rafters at Merten's shop. Merten did come to a drag race with us to help us out in North Carolina.
We were a Merc dealer for 35 years and now it is beyond exciting to hear all the inside scoop you ex Merc employees provide! Many many thanks!
Barron Cooley

[willabee]

Hey Willabee, What's the deal with Merten's hydro? It looks like a modern photo and I notice it looks like 1980's decals on the Merc. Also looks like it was make at an airport.

That's mdb29's photo, and he said he has the boat stored in his hangar.....said the pipes were added for show (they are not the type used for the record run).....maybe the wraparound cowling decals were updated for show.....maybe mdb29 can give you more info.

Look at post #239 on the "Hot Singles" thread, the one on the right side shows the twin pipe system actually used. It does look like whatever it says behind the word "Mercury" in the airport photo was not on the cowling for the run.

I think it's fitting that a photo of that boat was taken at an airport, it could really "fly" :).

[Bruster]

How about how fast with a inline someone might actually have like a 1500XS, Twister, TII-X.:D

[Bruce Washburn]

This is from memory so the speeds may not be 100% accurate but are in the ballpark
David Lee had an SJ record with a 150xs in the low to mid 100's 103-106.

I also remember Steve Robertson going 90-91 in a 15 Allison with a 150xs to set a NOA record.
I think Louis Collins, who is sometimes on this board, ran a Laser v bottom with a 150xs right at 90 as well.

Glen Reynolds held a NOA Bass Boat record at 85 MPH with a stock 150 inline on a 17 or 18 ft Allison.


Willabee, Butler or Rich Luhrs could probably give you more info of the t-2 records. I think Herring went 119 or so. It was probably one of the S version factory motors that were not for sale to the public at the time.

Brghauer, I think, held an UJ record at 113 but I am not sure

[willabee]

Willabee, Butler or Rich Luhrs could probably give you more info of the t-2 records. I think Herring went 119 or so. It was probably one of the S version factory motors that were not for sale to the public at the time....Brghauer, I think, held an UJ record at 113 but I am not sure

Check post #272 on "Hot Singles".....Hering @ 118.441 for new "S" mark - Duane Berghauer @ 113.271 for new "U" mark

[T2x]

You also have to look at the speeds recorded on the "wings"........multi engine in lines....

I believe Kitson ran 119 in an NOA kilo......... and Schoonover had a fast turn as well. There also are Lake X test sheets showing Wing speeds in the high teens through the measured speed traps.

What is most impressive about those numbers is that they were set well before the Twisters and 6 carb variants of the inlines came out.

T2x

[Bruce Washburn]

I have often wondered "How fast was the twin engine Molinari that Sirois drove the last year he won or the one that Ronato had with the T1's.

[Old fiberglass]

Speaking of wing speed records...don't forget Ernie Threlkeld. Jan Schoonover, Kenny Kitson and Ernie Threlkeld were all going back and forth for the kilo records. It was kind of like a arms race between them back in the day. As TX2 points out I think Kenny set the fastest in the end.

[willabee]

You also have to look at the speeds recorded on the "wings"........multi engine in lines.....I believe Kitson ran 119 in an NOA kilo......... and Schoonover had a fast turn as well. There also are Lake X test sheets showing Wing speeds in the high teens through the measured speed traps.....What is most impressive about those numbers is that they were set well before the Twisters and 6 carb variants of the inlines came out.....T2x

I'd guess that Bruster was talking about singles. If so, I'd say low teens is the best you could run if you bought the right boat and set it up to go fast on calm water with a TII or TII-X (comments on that statement ought to be interesting :)).

The record setting Wings were all 18'ers. Schnoover @109 with 1100 stackers.....then Threlkeld went about 115 with stacked Johnson 115's. Schnoover blew over trying to get the record back and then Kitson with stacked 1250's got it back for Merc around 119.....Threlkeld blew over trying to get it back. Those are the speeds as I remember them, I don't know where to look to confirm.....Old fiberglass could ask Kitson about Earnie's and his, I think Jan's is correct.

The twin 20' Wings were slower than the 18's with the power of the day, and the triples were even slower. When the power went up, no one seemed to be very interested in "Flying" one of those boats any faster than the existing record.....I sure don't blame them :eek:.

They got some cool pictures of "Flying Wings" from Lake X prior to the Schnoover record of 109, but I have to think that the speeds grew as people saw the photos and talked about it. Speeds in the teens back then with the stacked 1000's on the wooden hulls? I'd bet the 1000 was a stock engine with an open exhaust system installed, not the hand built stuff that came later.....and props sure got a lot better after the time of the Lake X boats.

I remember talking to Merten prior to the 1969 Parker 9 hour. On the Wednesday before the race he said he felt he was in big trouble because he was running in the low 90's and most of the Wing drivers he was talking to said that they were running at or over 100. He kept testing, looking for more speed. By Friday, he was back to smiling and I asked how much more he had found. He said " Didn't find any more, but my 90 mile per hour boat has passed every one of those 100 mile per hour rigs out there.".....he and Boots Spellman did finish 1st outboard and 2nd overall that year :D.

[T2x]

I'd guess that Bruster was talking about singles. If so, I'd say low teens is the best you could run if you bought the right boat and set it up to go fast on calm water with a TII or TII-X (comments on that statement ought to be interesting :)).

.

If memory serves we were running about 112-114 with T2x's (stock) on the later sprint hulls...... This was set up in race trim with 14:15 lowers..... We had 1:1's but never used them.

The interesting thing is my 28' Skater/2X300x runs at 120+ with a complete interior... 30 gallons of fuel, and safety equipment...plus it shifts, and you can use it for cruising.

Things have sure changed.

T2x

[willabee]

I have often wondered "How fast was the twin engine Molinari that Sirois drove the last year he won or the one that Ronato had with the T1's.

Don't know, but I'd say the faster of the two was Renato's (he ran with 1350 stackers not TI's). Merten may have orginally set the other boat up using a Keller, but I don't recall any quoted speeds and I don't think there was a speedo in the boat when Sirois started testing at Havasu. As a matter of fact, I overheard Sirois when he got out of that boat after his first test. He said something like "This race is going to be a piece of cake. I think I'll test some more props just to make it look like it needs something, but this turkey is ready to run." Renato didn't need a Keller, the seat of his britches told him how he was running. Those boats were never set up to see how fast they could go, but I would think in "Havasu" trim with a two hour fuel load, they were about 110 mph.....a little faster light on fuel, in good water.

[T2x]

Don't know, but I'd say the faster of the two was Renato's (he ran with 1350 stackers not TI's). Merten may have orginally set the other boat up using a Keller, but I don't recall any quoted speeds and I don't think there was a speedo in the boat when Sirois started testing at Havasu. As a matter of fact, I overheard Sirois when he got out of that boat after his first test. He said something like "This race is going to be a piece of cake. I think I'll test some more props just to make it look like it needs something, but this turkey is ready to run." Renato didn't need a Keller, the seat of his britches told him how he was running. Those boats were never set up to see how fast they could go, but I would think in "Havasu" trim with a two hour fuel load, they were about 110 mph.....a little faster light on fuel, in good water.

Willabee:

How much slower were the twin/triple Jones hulls?

T2x

[willabee]

Willabee:How much slower were the twin/triple Jones hulls?.....T2x

Now you're making me think..... Soooooo, if we are putting the same power on all of these boats, adding 20 gallons of fuel and running at top speed on good water with our Havasu setup, the Kellers would show the following:
1. Renato's white twin, engines over sponsons - 112/114
2. Sirois' reverse "S" twin, 1971 Havasu winner - 110/112
3. Blue/White Jones triple, Galveston winner - 108/110
4. Most 20' Jones twins - 105/107
5. Willabee, driving any of the above.....add 10 mph :D

That's my best guess..... It's based that on the 112 that Peacock saw in Renato's and speeds I saw driving the triple. I never drove a twin Jones, but recall guys saying they were getting close to the 110 mark when they took off :eek:. I don't think that boat would stay on the water at much over 105.

[Old fiberglass]

The speed records for wings back in the day was the National Outboard Association's (NOA) Unlimited IV Pleasure Craft class for a two way average. Jan was the first to crack 100 MPH @ 102.837 MPH on September 9th 1967. Then in March 10, 1968 Ernie bumped it to 104.651 MPH using "non stacked" ;) GT115's. Jan bumped it to 106.509 March 25, 1968. Then I believe Kenny bumped it, but not sure to what........will try to find out.

TX2 - The claim of Kenny's 119 MPH record is based on what record ?? That seems very high to me.


he and Boots Spellman did finish 1st outboard and 2nd overall that year

Ironically the 20 foot wing I have came in third overall and second outboard for the same year at Parker in 1969. With Ed Steward and Don Edmonson driving.

[Old fiberglass]

5. Willabee, driving any of the above.....add 10 mph


LOL I like it !!

[T2x]

TX2 - The claim of Kenny's 119 MPH record is based on what record ?? That seems very high to me.

I have no idea who TX2 is but if your question is aimed at me:D ...... the Miss Diablo has a "119 mph record holder" script painted on the sides..... I believe it was an N.O.A. record but the more recognised records of the day were APBA...... I know that Threlkeld flipped in Norristown trying to back up a run in the teens on an APBA course.

I also know that Ron Hill believes the Wings barely broke 100....... However I have seen Lake X test sheets that clearly indicate measured kilo speeds of over 117 in Schoonover's boat with Odell Lewis (Mercury driver) driving.

[T2x]

5. Willabee, driving any of the above.....add 10 mph :D

I always went 10 mph faster at the bar too..... by midnight it was more like 20....:p

I knew that the single Jone hulls were quick to flip.....Stickle can attest to that...;) But I thought the duals and triples were more forgiving... especially with the long pickle forks..... I guess Jones put too much compression in the cut back tunnel sections... The styling sure was pretty....especially the duals.

T2x

[KG4]

Those are some pretty impessive speeds for back in the day.My dad had a ct 150 baja tunnel with a t2.He did more drag racing with it than sprint racing.I remember at Columbiaville Michigan at the drags he ran 100 flat in the quarter.Old fiberglass that wing boat is bad to the bone.

[AirRide]

Just curious.Thanks
So, with respect to KG4's original question, the answer(by willabee)was: Jim Merten at 136.381 m.p.h., in 1973...?:)

[willabee]

The speed records for wings back in the day was the National Outboard Association's (NOA) Unlimited IV Pleasure Craft class for a two way average. Jan was the first to crack 100 MPH @ 102.837 MPH on September 9th 1967. Then in March 10, 1968 Ernie bumped it to 104.651 MPH using "non stacked" ;) GT115's. Jan bumped it to 106.509 March 25, 1968. Then I believe Kenny bumped it, but not sure to what........will try to find out..... Ironically the 20 foot wing I have came in third overall and second outboard for the same year at Parker in 1969..

Seemed like NOA set up record run events in advance.....a date and place in the near future.....bet Olegator knows a lot about this. I think you had to contact APBA to ask them to set up for a run. It was easier to try to establish a new record with NOA back then. There, of course, was the normal amount of cynical chatter after a new record was set in NOA.....usually started by the APBA member or group whose record had just been broken.

That's some great research you have done, please continue. I'm hoping you will get Schnoover up to 109. I remember him pulling into the pits at Parker in 68, parked the Wing alongside "Daytripper" and started shaking hands with people. I was standing in the truck looking down at the "World Record Holder" and I thought it said 109 on the sides. Your account says it said 102 and that Threlkeld broke it right after the race..... I'm thinking Parker was always the 1st Sunday in March. I wonder where Earnie set the 104 and where Jan ran 106 fifteen days later.....maybe Earnie stayed at Parker and Jan went to an event in Knoxville?

The 20'er you have always appeared to be well maintained. It looked sharp on and off the water.

PS: At some point in your search for these records, we have got to get Earnie running a pair of stacked 115's ;).

[willabee]

I know that Threlkeld flipped in Norristown trying to back up a run in the teens on an APBA course.

I also know that Ron Hill believes the Wings barely broke 100....... However I have seen Lake X test sheets that clearly indicate measured kilo speeds of over 117 in Schoonover's boat with Odell Lewis (Mercury driver) driving.

I still think Schnoover got to 109, Threlkeld broke it at about 115, Schnoover blew over trying to get it back.....then Kitson goes about 119 and Threlkeld goes over trying to get it back. Maybe Old fiberglass will prove me wrong, but if he does, we will know how fast Dust-N' the Wind II has to go to make the claim of "Worlds Fastest Wing" :).

Do you suppose Hill is talking about speeds during a marathon rather than in a kilo run? I've got to wonder about that 117.....why would he be driving Jan's boat in the first place, and why would he be either 8 or 11 mph faster than Jan? As you guys say, inquiring minds want to know :).

[T2x]

Do you suppose Hill is talking about speeds during a marathon rather than in a kilo run? I've got to wonder about that 117.....why would he be driving Jan's boat in the first place, and why would he be either 8 or 11 mph faster than Jan? As you guys say, inquiring minds want to know :).

Hill apparently tested OMC's wing prior to Parker in '68 or so...and then ran his own DeSilva.... so his comparisons are primarily in marathon setups pre-race.

As to the Lake X test sheets on Wings, I have at least a dozen copies of different tests conducted by various Mercury drivers over a few years time, showing fuel loads, lower units (BP and SSM), HP (BP's and 1100's)...etc, etc. With speeds as low as in the 60's and Schoonover's boat recording the highest. Apparently Schoonover's boat was at the lake and was one of the Wing's tested. His name is listed as "Owner" with Odell, Sirois, and others listed as drivers for various tests.... on his and other Wings.

If the course was short........ maybe the speeds were inflated, but I recall that the Lake X course was surveyed.

Below is a portion of one of the tests. I have not scanned the Schoonover/Lewis copy.

T2x

[willabee]

I knew that the single Jone hulls were quick to flip.....Stickle can attest to that...;) But I thought the duals and triples were more forgiving... especially with the long pickle forks..... I guess Jones put too much compression in the cut back tunnel sections... The styling sure was pretty....especially the duals.....T2x

Those boats seemed to just have a speed they would get to, but then no more.....snap. The only fast single was the Stickle boat, the others weren't that competitive. I took one around the Parker course and hung on for dear life, it just felt weird, like it wanted to show off :(, all the way around.

He had sucess with the twin 18's, they were great short course boats, but they were limited on top end and on how much water they could run over. That made them not so competitive at places like Parker and Havasu. They thought the answer was to stretch it out to a 20'. Well, they were faster and got over more water, but most people that ran them near their capability ended up on their head.....I don't care how good of a driver. The triples were a different story.....I ran two of them, sister boats. However, one was very forgiving and the other just wanted to hurt me .....never dating sisters again :). All were beautiful.....I'm a triple guy myself.

[willabee]

So, with respect to KG4's original question, the answer(by willabee)was: Jim Merten at 136.381 m.p.h., in 1973...?:)

So far, that's the answer.....I'm waiting for some Lake X stuff to appear before this is all over :rolleyes:.

[Bruster]

Lots of good info here, so..... Let's refine the question again:
Fastest recorded speed with:
Motor with shifting gearcase.
Motor with SSM type GC.
B.P. G.C.

[25ss]

Jim Hunts old boat

[largecar91]

I Have A T2x Powerhead I Bought In The Mid 80's From Someone In Florida(might Have Been Homer Green Or Bill May I Can't Remember) But The Story On It Then Was That Seebold Had Used It To Set A Record Of Around 116??? I Have No Idea If It Was B.s. Or Not But It Was A Very Strong Powerhead. Anyone Remember Any Records Like This For A Single Engine Boat?

[Old fiberglass]

Talked to Kenny yesterday. I always enjoyed talking to him and am grateful he takes the time to talk to me. Ran out of room on my paper taking notes about Kenny's records :eek: He sure set some records.....

Off the top of his head he didn't recall setting a 119 MPH record.

He did remember setting a NOA record of 113.208 in 1968. Somehow I think that was the high watermark for a Switzer Wing NOA record. Didn't feel there was any more weight to APBA record vs. NOA record. Kenny did like the fact that to set a APBA record the boat had to have placed 1st, 2nd or 3rd in a race. So, a NOA boat could be purpose built and a APBA boat typically wasn't.

Here's an interesting story. Kenny set three APBA speed records in ~ 1969 with three different wings in one day. Pretty darn cool !! Must have been one heck of a sight.

Miss Diablo III UU class- Stock motor 125 HP with speedmaster ~ 101MPH
Miss Diablo VI T class - Modified 125 HP with stacks ~ 110 MPH
Miss Diablo X U Class - 20 foot wing with triple 125 HP (??) ~ 101 - 102 MPH

I don't "think" that the Odell was driving Jan's fiberglass 18' wing when he went 117 MPH at Lake X. It was in his wood Dutchman prototype. Interesting story on that though .....

FYI - I'm just interested in this stuff and forums can be impersonal. So, it's hard to see folks faces/intent when they make comments. At any rate don't want to come across as a know -it-all....... because I'm certainly not. Just having fun learning about this stuff.

[T2x]

Talked to Kenny yesterday. I always enjoyed talking to him and am grateful he takes the time to talk to me. Ran out of room on my paper taking notes about Kenny's records :eek: He sure set some records.....

Off the top of his head he didn't recall setting a 119 MPH record.

He did remember setting a NOA record of 113.208 in 1968. Somehow I think that was the high watermark for a Switzer Wing NOA record. Didn't feel there was any more weight to APBA record vs. NOA record. Kenny did like the fact that to set a APBA record the boat had to have placed 1st, 2nd or 3rd in a race. So, a NOA boat could be purpose built and a APBA boat typically wasn't.

Here's an interesting story. Kenny set three APBA speed records in ~ 1969 with three different wings in one day. Pretty darn cool !! Must have been one heck of a sight.

Miss Diablo III UU class- Stock motor 125 HP with speedmaster ~ 101MPH
Miss Diablo VI T class - Modified 125 HP with stacks ~ 110 MPH
Miss Diablo X U Class - 20 foot wing with triple 125 HP (??) ~ 101 - 102 MPH

I don't "think" that the Odell was driving Jan's fiberglass 18' wing when he went 117 MPH at Lake X. It was in his wood Dutchman prototype. Interesting story on that though .....

FYI - I'm just interested in this stuff and forums can be impersonal. So, it's hard to see folks faces/intent when they make comments. At any rate don't want to come across as a know -it-all....... because I'm certainly not. Just having fun learning about this stuff.


The Lake X sheets specifically listed the hull as a "Switzer Wing", material Fibreglass, owner Jan Schoonover. I had no idea there was a "Wood Dutchman Prototype". I'll have to dig up those sheets.......

I could be wrong however on the record posted on the side of the Miss Diablo.... it might have been 113...or maybe he ran 119 one way?... Senior moments abound.:D

T2x

[Watermark]

I could be wrong however on the record posted on the side of the Miss Diablo.... it might have been 113...or maybe he ran 119 one way?... Senior moments abound.:D

T2x

T2x.. don't feel bad, we're all aging at the same rate.. that's why I take pictures.. see below.

Ken's Records are:
First Boat to set an APBA Record in OPC over 100 MPH
NOA Unlimited Class VI Record = 109.756
NOA Unlimited Class IV Record = 113.208 (Ken's mind is sharp.. he doesn't have to look at photos like the rest of us!)

[Old fiberglass]

I'm still pretty darn sure it was Jan's wood prototype not his fiberglass Switzer at Lake X.... 1968 is when this happened.

Interesting story about when Jan filipped his wing trying to beat Kenny's NOA record. As his boat flipped over it went through the traps upside down and tied Kenny's 113 MPH record. Talk about hard luck.....Jan didn't get hurt and the boat was destroyed.... he later burned it. Got the kilo run before he flipped and then when the boat was pulled up the next day on DVD. It was a sad sight...looks like he was running 1250's.

Kenny has almost a photographic memory for numbers.

[willabee]

Ken's Records are:
First Boat to set an APBA Record in OPC over 100 MPH
NOA Unlimited Class VI Record = 109.756
NOA Unlimited Class IV Record = 113.208

So, a more accurate reconstruction of Wing speed records, NOA & APBA, is:

1. Schoonover - 102 in 1967 - NOA - 1100 stackers
2. Kitson - 100 in 1968 - APBA - 1250 stackers
3. Threlkeld - 104 in 1968 - NOA - Johnson 115's
4. Schoonover - 106 in 1968 - NOA - 1250 stackers
5. Threlkeld blows over trying to break the 106 mark in 1968 - Johnson 115 stackers?
6. Kitson - 113 in 1968 - NOA - 1250 stackers
7. Schoonover blows over trying to break the 113 mark in 1968 - 1250 stackers
8. Kitson - 109 in 1968 - NOA - triple 1250 stackers on an 18'

Kitson then looks at everyone gimping around in the pits and says "Nuff of that!" :D

If that's it, T2x, you have your target :).

Now, what is this story about a wooden Dutchman?

[kasshark]

I saw Kitson clock 113. I think i have it on 8mm. film. He ran 1250 Super BP. It would have ben in 69 or 70.

[PARKER RABE]

i got a guy here in town that can convert all that 8mm stuff over to dvd, , he did some stuff for me ...lots of betamax stuff

[Old fiberglass]

One thing I remember Kenny telling me is when he got up around 120 MPH in the 18' Switzer he felt he was "knocking on heavens door". In other words that was the upper limit of what the boat could do.

The 20 foot Switzer wing should be able to handle that speed and more.......

Bob Switzer mentioned that he and Dave felt Ernie had to be one of the best wing drivers setting the record with the GT115 club foot lower unit. I guess that made the boat a lot harder to control then the nice streamlined Merc lowers. I asked Ernie about that and he indicated it was very hard to control.

The reason Ernie blew over was OMC put larger more powerful motors on his wing and didn't tell him. He was used to driving it at a lower power level. Sometimes more or too much power is a bad thing when your not prepaired for it. When Erine blew over it really damaged his leg I believe. He was ticked at OMC and shortly there after switched back to Mercury.

[T2x]

One thing I remember Kenny telling me is when he got up around 120 MPH in the 18' Switzer he felt he was "knocking on heavens door". In other words that was the upper limit of what the boat could do.

The 20 foot Switzer wing should be able to handle that speed and more.......

Bob Switzer mentioned that he and Dave felt Ernie had to be one of the best wing drivers setting the record with the GT115 club foot lower unit. I guess that made the boat a lot harder to control then the nice streamlined Merc lowers. I asked Ernie about that and he indicated it was very hard to control.

The reason Ernie blew over was OMC put larger more powerful motors on his wing and didn't tell him. He was used to driving it at a lower power level. Sometimes more or too much power is a bad thing when your not prepaired for it. When Erine blew over it really damaged his leg I believe. He was ticked at OMC and shortly there after switched back to Mercury.

If you're talking to Ernie, ask him if the OMC's he used during the Kilo run had power trim on them.... The story in the pits after that accident was that he had trimmed the motors out and then flipped as a result.

T2x

[Old fiberglass]

Myth Busters continiues....... Pictures are of Ernies wing after he wrecked it. You can just see the strap that OMC used to tie the lower unit to the transom with a strap. The GT lower unit had a slot in it which the allowed the strap to loop through it and back to the transom. This firmly held the motor to the transom... so no power trim was used. It didn't have stackers either ;)

[dale robertson]

Those aren't club foots on the G.T.115's.

[Mark75H]

Not all. There was a 16:21 direct drive racing lower unit made after the FGS 115's that was favored by most OMC V-4 racers. It uses the small hub racing (SSM) type props. The 115's used a large hub prop. The large housing size gave it the nickname "clubfoot"

[willabee]

Myth Busters continiues....... Pictures are of Ernies wing after he wrecked it....... It didn't have stackers either ;)

:D :D I knew it, I knew it, I knew it :D :D .....Old fiberglass, check out the photo below.....Threlkeld at Parker in 1968 and he is running stacked 115's :D :D .....yes/yes/yes :D :D

......check out the style of Bill Olney's Wing (above the Black Coffin), that's a little different.....maybe what Switzer did just before the glass 18's.

[T2x]

:D :D I knew it, I knew it, I knew it :D :D .....Old fiberglass, check out the photo below.....Threlkeld at Parker in 1968 and he is running stacked 115's :D :D .....yes/yes/yes :D :D

......check out the style of Bill Olney's Wing (above the Black Coffin), that's a little different.....maybe what Switzer did just before the glass 18's.

Willabee:

I think Olney's boat is the original wooden wing that the Switzers and Bakos ran years earlier ...see attached. It was sold to "a guy in California" according to Bob Switzer, with the understanding that he would return it for Switzer Craft to make a mold from.... That mold was the source of the 18 footers.

T2x

[willabee]

Willabee:

I think Olney's boat is the original wooden wing that the Switzers and Bakos ran years earlier ...see attached. It was sold to "a guy in California" according to Bob Switzer, with the understanding that he would return it for Switzer Craft to make a mold from.... That mold was the source of the 18 footers....T2x

Maybe just the black vs. white paint, but do you think the sponson.....cockpit to nose, is longer on the white boat?

[T2x]

Maybe just the black vs. white paint, but do you think the sponson.....cockpit to nose, is longer on the white boat?

Not to my tired old eyes...I think those are one and the same.

[Mark75H]

They could be the same boat with a few changes.

The U-4 seat is much lower and the cowling is completely different. The back and sides of the cockpit on U-4 are quite rounded. In fact the whole cockpit opening is oval-ish. On T-258 the back and sides of the cockpit comparment are straight with a right angle where the sides and back of the cockpit opening meet.

T-258's motor mounting bracket seems to be outside the cowl. Maybe this is because the BP's were so much taller than 800's with Speedmasters.

The fronts ahead of the cockpit seem the same to me.

[T2x]

They could be the same boat with a few changes.

The U-4 seat is much lower and the cowling is completely different. The back and sides of the cockpit on U-4 are quite rounded. In fact the whole cockpit opening is oval-ish. On T-258 the back and sides of the cockpit comparment are straight with a right angle where the sides and back of the cockpit opening meet.

T-258's motor mounting bracket seems to be outside the cowl. Maybe this is because the BP's were so much taller than 800's with Speedmasters.

The fronts ahead of the cockpit seem the same to me.

Remember that in the time between the pictures, the hull was used as a plug which probably required closing the cockpits and rounding off some square edges. Since there were very few wooden Wings made ( By my estimate, maybe 6) and each one had fairly significant changes from the one before, the few subtle differences in these two don't follow the pattern. I'm voting this is the same hull. Maybe Bob Switzer can clarify?

T2x

[jlf56]

Willabee & TX2, I just found this board and would be interested to know a name to go with the handle !! I am Joe Fielder of Glastron 1969 1971. I was the one driving the light weight twin at Havasue 1970 that crashed on the first lap at the start finish line nose first in Rudy Ramos's wake after he left late. I can give you guy's some keller speeds that we ran and if memory serves me Bill S. was driving the wooden sister to the boat we (Glastron) used for the plug for the glass 21 fter. Really am enjoying reading all the threads about the old days. I lost touch with all the guy's about 1974 or so. The last I heard Pruett's back finally went out on him, Jimbo McConnell had a bad wreck and was in a bad way. Don't know if any of you remember a Lee Richter from Houston Tx. but he is still alive here in Port O'Connor TX. and still spewing about all the things we use to do. He just turned 90 years old and is mean as ever. He and Red Adair had a red 20' glass Switzer that I co-drove at Havasue in 69. Hope to see some names, when you get old you like hearing from old friends !!!
Regards, Joe Fielder

PS The spring of 70 Keith Hurst and Richie ????? brought the Mercury prop truck to Austin TX after the Galveston race and was told " to get us competitive with the Merc team" After two days of prop testing and running a measured mile on lake travis, I came back to the trailer and told them that 102 was all she would do. They grabbed each other and did a little dance. Harold Wilkerson and I ask what the excitment was and they said, "this is the first twin moly to run over a hundred."
The light weight 21' we crashed at Havasue was runing high teens with a fuel load. Ask Renato. He came to the hospital to see me and was still upset that I blew by him on the first back stretch. Look at the CBS still photos of the crash and you will see me floating (still in cockpit) at start bouy and Renato was just coming up on the wreckage. That was a badass boat but would have never finished the first four hours. The CG was wrong, if you see the pistures notice the engins are tucked all the way under. That boat was awesome but not ready to race.

[Mark75H]

Wow, Joe it is great to have you here on Screamandfly! I have never seen the CBS still photos, but have seen the Rod Flint photos from Powerboat:

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6112&d=1021769151

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18835&d=1041637796

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6113&d=1021769443

I think Ron Hill provided these. It looks like you are lucky to be alive. I bet it seemed like forever while they were going by.

[willabee]

Just bringing this back to the front because we are talking about Wing speeds on the "Hot Multi's" thread.

[T2x]

Willabee:

I am glad that both you and I have not had a change in "recollections" over the past couple of years.......

Now if the nurse would only come by and clean up the pablum that I spilled on my pajamas.......:D

T2x

[ByronC]

For anyone who wants to know, Ernie Threlkeld passed away about two months ago. He was my High School Band, Orchestra, and Jazz Band director and life long friend. He is dearly missed.

Byron Cutshaw
Shelbyville Ky

[Ray Neudecker]

Hate to hear it about Ernie. I chased him in that Stinson around a lot of NOA courses.

[Old fiberglass]

I'm sad to hear Ernie passed. Obituary info here - http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/sentinelnews/obituary.aspx?n=j-ernest-threlkeld&pid=160337218#fbLoggedOut


http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af136/RetroBoats/Wings/Erine-a.jpg<o:p></o:p>

[GENE LANHAM]

For anyone who wants to know, Ernie Threlkeld passed away about two months ago. He was my High School Band, Orchestra, and Jazz Band director and life long friend. He is dearly missed.

Byron Cutshaw
Shelbyville Ky

I got to meet Ernie at the Gold Coast Marathon, 1967. He and I followed Jan (way back!) around the North Bay Course for two days. I saw him a few months later at Parker, there were two new 'single pipe' OMC's on the 'COFFIN'.

Rest in peace, Ernie.

http://i48.tinypic.com/a9nu5t.jpg

[T2x]

The world of boat racing has lost a true warrior. Rest in Peace Mr. Threlkeld....you did an awful lot in relatively short period of time.....one of the true "legends".

[CALVIN]

Wow great story....What year was the switzer #69 run?

[powerabout]

David Toyer clocked 110 mph in a kilo in 77 in OZ with a T2X
( I asked on a oz web site)

[Mark75H]

I like post #2 on this thread

[Capt.Insane-o]

136.381 is the fastest "recorded" that I'm aware of.......1973


That looks a boat Mike Reed use to run up here, it was Ms Hamms back in the day.