Mercury Marine and Mercury Racing Product Report: 300 Verado, 200 I-4 Verado, 1200SCi

[Scream And Fly]

Hi all,

I'll have to keep this brief since I'm at the show now on my wireless connection.

Once again, Mercury Marine and Mercury Racing owned the show at Miami. Unbelievably intense crowds gathered for the introduction of this year's new products. Some of which are:

300 Horsepower Verado: 2.6-litre inline six, supercharged and intercooled.
200 Horsepower, 4-cylinder Verado: This engine is hitting the sweet spot in terms of horsepower to weight ratios for 4-stroke engines and engine performance.
1200 SCi Racing Sterndrive: The most impressive piece of hardware I have ever seen. Very intelligent, very powerful, and very supercharged. :)
More details to follow including official releases and product information as well as information on Mercury Zeus and Apollo.For now, here are some photos:

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6770/005bm6.jpg

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8851/006fl7.jpg

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2536/004wi0.jpg

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/3996/002fs3.jpg

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/6802/007bj1.jpg

[Scream And Fly]

300 hp Verado Key Features

In recognition that more muscle is required as outboard-powered boats are getting larger, Mercury introduces the 300 hp inline six-cylinder Verado. The introduction reinforces Mercury’s leadership position in the offshore saltwater market. Other target applications are coastal bay and freshwater multi-species.

The six-cylinder Verado models feature standard electro-hydraulic power steering. SmartCraft Digital Throttle & Shift is standard on the four-cylinder and six-cylinder models, which allows Verado to deliver an exceptionally smooth and responsive engineered driving experience that handles like a sports car.

The supercharged, inter-cooled Verado sets the new standards for performance and technology. It’s the strongest, quietest, fastest and most reliable outboard ever built.

Reliability
· With more than 25,000 hours of testing, Verado is the most proven marine power ever produced
· All major structural components were specifically designed and built for the supercharged Verado, including the crank shaft, connecting rods and bearings, and even an entirely new gear case designed for maximum performance and reliability
· The digital throttle and shift alone has over 75,000 hours of testing. There are no cables to adjust, replace or bind
· No valve adjustments required for the life of the engine due to the lightweight, 24-valve double overhead cam designed specifically for higher output engines
· Verado is equipped with a gear case design that incorporates larger gears and gear housing for significantly greater durability
· Three-year factory backed non declining limited warranty -- PLUS a three-year limited corrosion failure warranty.
· All major structural components-such as the crankshaft, connecting rods and bearings- have been specifically designed to excel as part of a supercharged power plant
· Conveniently located fresh water flush is standard equipment


Performance
· The first production Supercharged, Inter-cooled four-stroke in the history of outboard marine propulsion, the 2.6L Verado delivers best-in-class torque and acceleration
· Thanks to its exclusive supercharged and inter-cooled design, Verado’s midrange acceleration will exceed any other outboard in the world
· SmartCraft digital throttle and shift provide smooth, quiet shift engagement and instantaneous throttle response

Running Quality
· Verado’s exclusive electro-hydraulic power steering makes steering effortless, fluid and seamless, much like driving a car. This eliminates undesirable torque while maintaining "feel" to maximize handling and reduce fatigue, especially on performance hulls
· Dramatically better torque than any four-stroke and most two-strokes
· The patented 2-stage intake resonator and idle relief muffler combined with the high performance acoustic foam lining in the top cowl provide unparalleled sound quality making conversations easy even at high speeds

Technology
· The 70 amp fully-regulated alternator ensures fully charged batteries, even with a contingent of electronics on board
· The Verado uses a 4 point progressive rate perimeter mount system that virtually eliminates vibration transmitted to the boat. Steering is easier and more stable at high speeds because the mounts automatically stiffen as load increases.
· Features SmartCraft technology with the Engine Guardian System which monitors engine functions and alerts you of engine problems should they arise.
· New PCM 07 supports all of the latest application based SmartCraft features such as descriptive fault text, shadow mode for quad applications, Autosync On/Off docking mode, single lever mode and throttle transfer between foot throttle and hand throttle.
· Thanks to an insulated and isolated cowl system, patented muffling chambers in the air induction system and a specially designed idle relief exhaust silencer, wind and water noise are more audible than engine noise even at high speeds

[Little Jon]

nice wishicould be there

[beer30]

Thanks, Greg for keeping us informed. Some super cool new products.:cool: :cool: Chuck

[NNT]

whats that 200 weigh?Tried to find that on Mercs site and couldn't find a specs page to save my ass

[1BadAction]

200 weighs about 510lbs wet. same as a 3.0L opti. very sweet, now they need a I-4 verado with the dry-sump tank in boat, no intake or exhaust baffling in 225 and 250hp that wear the red, yellow, and orange racing colors. :D

[Riverman]

Need......white.....motor.....info.....

[NNT]

Need......white.....motor.....info.....


Ok hows this? They are still slower :D j/king but couldn't resist

[Riverman]

Ok hows this? They are still slower :D j/king but couldn't resistBastid!!

[1BadAction]

yea, i want to know if they released the big cid etec yet?

[DoktorC]

Ok..if we're going ALL the way..how about some Blue info?? I know they had something coming....

[NNT]

Ok..if we're going ALL the way..how about some Blue info?? I know they had something coming....

yea,i want to see that 400 hp i keep hearing is in the works. http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

as for the giant Etec, i ain't holdin my breath.

[The Big Al]

I want a set of those raised decals on the valve cover!!!!!

Those look good!

Al

[Ziemer]

200 Horsepower, 4-cylinder Verado: This engine is hitting the sweet spot in terms of horsepower to weight ratios for 4-stroke engines and engine performance.For now, here are some photos:

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/3996/002fs3.jpg




How many more years before this power sits on a 15" mid weighs about 100 lbs less, 100+ more horsepower and is the new standard in champ/drag racing??? :eek: :D :D

[Bruce Washburn]

It will be interesting to see what the future of performance outboards will be. I think to build some real Hp I would rather start with a v-6 than an inline. If someone would supercharge some of the V-6 four strokes they may really have something.
The scary thought to me re. a high tech four stroke race motor is how much$$$$$$ will they cost. To do it right I could see that the costs could pass 25 K for a powerhead real quick.

[Rusrog]

How many more years before this power sits on a 15" mid weighs about 100 lbs less, 100+ more horsepower and is the new standard in champ/drag racing??? :eek: :D :D

I'm thinking about... hmmm... Never. Those Verado's are so far off base for what a lot of us started this hobby for... Put one of those on a 20ft Bullet or Hydrostream or STV and see how slow it runs. You could time the 1/4 mile ET with a calendar...

Probably good motors for something... I'm just not sure what.

Russ

[NNT]

Probably good motors for something... I'm just not sure what.

Russ

Big offshore boats with a wide beam.

[1BadAction]

You could time the 1/4 mile ET with a calendar...

so your saying they are slower than a regular 200? :rolleyes: don't be ignorant.

seems like people who cant learn new technology are always the first ones to tear it down.

[Action Dave]

That's a pretty big difference in weight from the 200 verado to a 200 carb.

[imq707s]

so your saying they are slower than a regular 200? :rolleyes: don't be ignorant.

seems like people who cant learn new technology are always the first ones to tear it down.

With all of that extra torque from being a supercharged 4-stroke....wouldn't they come out of the hole and accelerate much faster than a 200 2-stroke?

[1BadAction]

where you going to buy a new 200 carb? the 200 optis are 3.0s now, and BRP dropped the 2.7 200 etec. so in reality, that motor weighs the same as all the DI 200s. unless you go to merc racing for a 200xs.

[NNT]

They dropped the 200 xs

[Action Dave]

where you going to buy a new 200 carb? the 200 optis are 3.0s now, and BRP dropped the 2.7 200 etec. so in reality, that motor weighs the same as all the DI 200s. unless you go to merc racing for a 200xs.

point taken:o

[Action Dave]

They dropped the 200 xs

Really? I thought that was a brand new motor?

[1BadAction]

Really? I thought that was a brand new motor?

nope, the 200xs has been around since 99. and they did drop it... for now. ;)

[Action Dave]

Man, I can't wait till Saturday so I can get fillled in on all the new crap at the show. Not like I could afford a DI engine, but it's fun to see.

[1BadAction]

yep, I like anything outboard or high perf. that 1200SC is a fukkin beast!

[RBT]

that 1200 sci has a hell of a price tag too....... no thanks, I will call Sterling, Keith Eichert, or Paul Pfaff for more power, less money..... and the same warranty.
As for the outboards.... if you can call them that..... I am continuning to hoard 2.5's till Dale Hill or Brendan Power get off there asses and build CNC blocks ( with a few improvements )............ :D :D :D

RT

[Rusrog]

As for the outboards.... if you can call them that..... I am continuning to hoard 2.5's till Dale Hill or Brendan Power get off there asses and build CNC blocks ( with a few improvements )............ :D :D :D

RT

No doubt... And yes 1BA I DO know about 4 stroke technology. It's in my truck where it works beautifully. On the back of 20foot boat these motors are pigs. Show me different and it'll be a big surprise to me. I'm not ignorant. I'm honest. The truth hurts sometimes but that don't make it any less the truth. I didn't get in this hobby to go offshore fishin'...

I'm with RBT on this one. They may be great motors but not for anything I own...

[us1ss]

You know better than say a negative thing about the black master of the boating world. If they build it it is the sh##, thats it! Get back to playin with your yami and quit posting negative things about the great one!

[Action Dave]

Maybe someone's having trouble with a 2-stroke that will comply to 2008 EPA standards?;)

[Capt.Insane-o]

#6 is still the sexiest thing out there. At least the 200 veradoo is starting to LOOK a little better. They are the ugliest engines made IMO. I wish they would stick one of the Hi Perf. 3.0 optis on a 15 inch mid. As for 4 strokes, valve trains and my right foot do not get along. I hate changing oil, they still sound like crap, and like rusrog said, I'm not in this for offshore fishing.

[Scream And Fly]

I'm thinking about... hmmm... Never. Those Verado's are so far off base for what a lot of us started this hobby for... Put one of those on a 20ft Bullet or Hydrostream or STV and see how slow it runs. You could time the 1/4 mile ET with a calendar...
Russ, I think you know that the Verado is not designed for an STV, Allison, Hydrostream, Mirage, Bullet, or any other small, light runabout. Must it always come back to this time and time again?

On another note, why haven't you ever criticized OMC for their V8 in this regard? After all, that has been around since 1985 and it surely wouldn't work as well with the boats you mentioned in stock form compared to high performance 2-strokes.


Probably good motors for something... I'm just not sure what.
You also know what the Verado was designed for - larger outboard rigs, and generally set up in multiples. Have you ever driven a Verado-powered boat? They are truly refined engines that deliver amazing power. Digital throttle and shift and Shadow Technology are also eye-opening experiences.

The fact is, Mercury is the only company that is blazing new trails in 4-stroke outboard development. Not fanboy talk here, just the truth from experience. The Verado is literally at least a generation ahead of any other 4-stroke outboard on the market.

Greg

[Fish]

thanks for the update greg, I ahve been trying ot free up time to get down there, but it is looking less and less likely. At least I get to see what I am missing.

fish

[WILDMAN]

where you going to buy a new 200 carb? the 200 optis are 3.0s now, and BRP dropped the 2.7 200 etec. so in reality, that motor weighs the same as all the DI 200s. unless you go to merc racing for a 200xs.


I have a brand new 2005 carb 200 if anyone wants it. $10,500

[David]

I'm not buying the Verado as the future of outboards. Supercharging adds cost and complexity. Displacement is relatively cheap. Which is lighter, cheaper, has a flatter power curve, and is more fuel efficient for a given HP output, a big displacement engine or a supercharged smaller engine?

For me, the Verado case is not proven. And not relevant:)

The 1200 HP inboard isn't relevant to my life, and may not be cost effective, but it sure is cool. I don't find the Verado cool.

[MercNuts]

Does anybody notice that the guys that contribute the least here are the first ones to throw rocks and turn some of these threads to negative? It seems like more non Teammembers that sit around on their asses and throw rocks at otherwise good posts. It is happening here in this case also. Some of you people spam the board a lot with your free advertising ads and then Greg spends his time and money and goes on a trip to do an instant article covering new engines at the boat show which will not be in magazines for months and all you can do is critisize. You should be ashamed. Especially two of you and you know who you are.

It is cold in Ala and reading about the boatshow is all that is interesting me besides for the Toyota cheaters at Daytona. Thank you Greg for bringing the play by play to all us shut ins.

[JJB]

Greg,
My buddy who is a boat trailer rep just called tonight and said that Yamaha just unveiled a 350hp V8 engine.......is he bu!!$h!++ing or telling the truth,

James

[Raceman]

Greg,
My buddy who is a boat trailer rep just called tonight and said that Yamaha just unveiled a 350hp V8 engine.......is he bu!!$h!++ing or telling the truth,

James

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125690

[stylishskier]

I can't speak for the people who bash the verado, Ive seen them from a distance only and know they aren't a performance app but I think I can speak for some people in the sense that they are disappointed in the direction merc is going... merc used (still is) to be at the forefront of racing, drag and OPC, they had a ton of experimental stuff in those races given to factory racers, it seems these days that Hi-perf outboards are truly becoming dinosaurs and it just sucks... Now not to say merc isn't at the forefront of outboard tech, everything is just moving in a different direction, dictated by the EPA... but times are a changing as well :(

[mercmack]

GREG IS YOU MAKE ANOTHER PASS THRU THE MERC BOOTH, CAN YOU LOOK AT THE 40HP EFI JET ENG..TAKE THE HOOD OFF AND SEE HOW MANY CYLS IT HAS..THAT THING HAS A VERADO LOOK, SEE IF IT HAS 3 CYLS FOR ME..WANTING TO KNOW IF ITS A NEW MERC POWERHEAD OR STILL THE YAMADOG BLOCK.. THANKS:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[JWTjr.]

hits it on the head.

'Nuff said.

JT

[Markus]

I'm not buying the Verado as the future of outboards. Supercharging adds cost and complexity. Displacement is relatively cheap. Which is lighter, cheaper, has a flatter power curve, and is more fuel efficient for a given HP output, a big displacement engine or a supercharged smaller engine?

Well, I clearly remember from the text book on engine design from engineering school that the answer is displacement.

Yamaha's biggest 4-stroke outboard block now has twice the displacement of Mercury's biggest 4-stroke outboard block...

[SUPAJAY]

The 1200SC is a serious motor. For someone who can spend 600,000 - 1,000,000 on a boat. Theyre mostly concerned about warantee. Mercury puts out a warrany than no small engine manufacture can stand against. Thats the bottom line.

Yes im sure Keith Eckert, MRD, and other small engine manufactures stand by their warrantee. But i doubt they replace it with a new identical piece.

[1BadAction]

Yamaha's biggest 4-stroke outboard block now has twice the displacement of Mercury's biggest 4-stroke outboard block...
and still a power to weight ratio thats worse :rolleyes: not to mention big punched out thin wall cylinders on a car motor thats stuck on end with a piss poor wet sump oiling system.

[Markus]

and still a power to weight ratio thats worse :rolleyes: .

That will improve as higher power versions come out with weight staying constant.

Neither of those bigs will go on the back of my boat.

[Hot Shot Merc]

Still nothing from Mercury that intrests me.This sux.Its a good thing they made as many 2.5's as they did.We can still play fast for a few more more years anyhow.:rolleyes:

[mk30h]

Well, I clearly remember from the text book on engine design from engineering school that the answer is displacement.

Yes, but that assumes that other variables are the same. ie no supercharging.
Mazda engineers may disagree, as thier little rotary with embrass engines with 3 times the displacement.

The Yamaha will be a good replacement for sterndrives of the same displacement, that is where the IO could be in trouble. Less weight, more interior space, and better fuel economy.

[Rusrog]

and still a power to weight ratio thats worse :rolleyes: not to mention big punched out thin wall cylinders on a car motor thats stuck on end with a piss poor wet sump oiling system.

WOW... Nice to know that Yamaha leaked all their engineering data to you before they pushed the motor out to the public. Have you seen one with the heads off? How well versed are you in oiling system design? I'm not at all but then again... I wasn't commenting on it either.


Russ, I think you know that the Verado is not designed for an STV, Allison, Hydrostream, Mirage, Bullet, or any other small, light runabout. Must it always come back to this time and time again?

On another note, why haven't you ever criticized OMC for their V8 in this regard? After all, that has been around since 1985 and it surely wouldn't work as well with the boats you mentioned in stock form compared to high performance 2-strokes.

First of all.. I didn't say you had to like them just because I don't. And as for the V-8's... I have seen them work pretty darn good when put on a minor diet.. Check out your Boat of the Month Greg.. While I am not a V-8 fan... I have seen them run extremely well on smaller lighter boats. The Verado is a very big motor. With no performance potential and stop with that in mind... Stop and think what got all of us into this hobby in the first place and also what Mercury made it's name with... Small, light, high performance outboards. I run Yamaha's now but I still have a Mercury and it still runs hard. I've got no problem with bigger O\B's... But when they get THAT big... WOW. I've got no use for it.



You also know what the Verado was designed for - larger outboard rigs, and generally set up in multiples. Have you ever driven a Verado-powered boat? They are truly refined engines that deliver amazing power. Digital throttle and shift and Shadow Technology are also eye-opening experiences.

The fact is, Mercury is the only company that is blazing new trails in 4-stroke outboard development. Not fanboy talk here, just the truth from experience. The Verado is literally at least a generation ahead of any other 4-stroke outboard on the market.

Greg

Wow Greg... You should be in commercials... hehehe
Fact is this... no matter how good a motor the Verado or the new Yamaha are... They are a stern drive replacement. For what most of us got into this sport for, they are as useless as a beat up aluminum propeller. It may get you home... but it's not a very exciting ride.

I'll stick to rebuilding my old stuff and when it's all gone... I guess I'll buy me a hot rod go cart or a rocking chair. It all depends on how long it takes to wear it all out....

Russ

[1BadAction]

Put one of those on a 20ft Bullet or Hydrostream or STV and see how slow it runs. You could time the 1/4 mile ET with a calendar...

still waiting on you to tell us how a 200 I-4 verado would be slower than a regular 200 outboard :rolleyes:


Have you seen one with the heads off? How well versed are you in oiling system design? I'm not at all but then again... I wasn't commenting on it either.

Doesnt take much brain power to figure out what they did to a car motor to get it onto a midsection. Yea, thats a real engineering feat right there, :rolleyes: turn it up 90* and make an adapter for a midsection. wet vs dry sump? get it in rough water (where these big motors are supposed to run) and see how good the wet sump system works then :rolleyes: but it all goes back to the engineering, one motor was originally in a DRY car somewhere and designed to be ran with the cylinders horizontally, the other one was designed from the ground up as an outboard in a marine environment, built to take high boost and run at 6000+rpms constantly.

I don't know, maybe to get into your club I can bash anything from mercury, worship ER, and compare prices of new merc parts to prices of used yamaha ones. yay.

[Scream And Fly]

Russ, nowhere did I say you had to like them. The point I keep on making (time and time again) is that the Verado is not a drag motor, performance motor, lake racer motor, or anything else that goes on a small boat. Lucky for anyone that wants such an engine, Mercury makes them. You can still buy drag engines, 280s, or any of the OptiMax engines for these type of boats.

For its intended purpose, the Verado is awesome. I'm sure the Yamaha V8 will do well also, but the 200 pound penalty for that extra 50 horsepower doesn't seem worth it right now.

Greg

[Scream And Fly]

Still nothing from Mercury that intrests me.This sux.Its a good thing they made as many 2.5's as they did.We can still play fast for a few more more years anyhow.:rolleyes:

Rob, people will be able to buy new 280 and drag powerheads for many years to come. :) You just can't buy complete outboards.

Greg

[The Big Al]

Russ, nowhere did I say you had to like them. The point I keep on making (time and time again) is that the Verado is not a drag motor, performance motor, lake racer motor, or anything else that goes on a small boat. Lucky for anyone that wants such an engine, Mercury makes them. You can still buy drag engines, 280s, or any of the OptiMax engines for these type of boats.

For its intended purpose, the Verado is awesome. I'm sure the Yamaha V8 will do well also, but the 200 pound penalty for that extra 50 horsepower doesn't seem worth it right now.

Greg

It's very hard to understand we "THE PERFORMANCE BOATERS" are the minority. and it's a very small number of business for them.
The Verado is a smashing success in the boating industry. It is the Lincoln of the outboard boating world, quite, smooth, powerful and very very easy turn key engine.

[RBT]

It's very hard to understand we "THE PERFORMANCE BOATERS" are the minority. and it's a very small number of business for them.
The Verado is a smashing success in the boating industry. It is the Lincoln of the outboard boating world, quite, smooth, powerful and very very easy turn key engine.

Ya and mercs own 2 strokes are beter in every way.
-better on gas
-better emissions
-lighter

4 strokes are smoke and mirrors, that have been shoved down our throats.. I have driven them all... in there intended applications ( obviously not the new V8... or the 300... that doesn't exist, at the show they all have 275 serial numbers )... and you couldn't give me a 4 stroke in any size. Bottom line is the 2 strokes are better.

RT

[stylishskier]

Ya and mercs own 2 strokes are beter in every way.
-better on gas
-better emissions
-lighter

4 strokes are smoke and mirrors, that have been shoved down our throats.. I have driven them all... in there intended applications ( obviously not the new V8... or the 300... that doesn't exist, at the show they all have 275 serial numbers )... and you couldn't give me a 4 stroke in any size. Bottom line is the 2 strokes are better.

RT

dont say its just a 300 cowl? I guess they dont actually have to release the 300+ till yamahas actually comes out sometime in 2008 right?:rolleyes:

[Scream And Fly]

or the 300... that doesn't exist, at the show they all have 275 serial numbers ).

RT



Are you so sure those aren't 275 midsections with 300 powerheads? :)

Greg

[merccoop]

GREG IS YOU MAKE ANOTHER PASS THRU THE MERC BOOTH, CAN YOU LOOK AT THE 40HP EFI JET ENG..TAKE THE HOOD OFF AND SEE HOW MANY CYLS IT HAS..THAT THING HAS A VERADO LOOK, SEE IF IT HAS 3 CYLS FOR ME..WANTING TO KNOW IF ITS A NEW MERC POWERHEAD OR STILL THE YAMADOG BLOCK.. THANKS:rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Mercmack,

While I was a co-op up in fond du lac, I worked on the 40hp jet. (along with the 200hp L4SC and a little with the 300 L4SC).

The 40hp jet is a 60hp 4 cylinder power head. I drove one on a 16ft carolina skiff meant for 30hp and boy did that things scoot! (for a jet drive that is).

As for the last comment, I can assure you it is not just a re-badged 275. This new year of verado has more than just a redone cal and reduced supercharger pulley... I got to drive the 300 L6SC on a 22 ft ranger down in Panama City. I was definitely wowed by how it pushed along that heavy azz boat. But, I guess that was the first L6SC I had driven though. The 200hp L4SC is going to be a contender in the walleye fishing crowd and that is what I was told one of the main reasons for it was.

As for the 1200sci, all I can say is that thing is pretty much the craziest thing I have ever seen in person....

[The Big Al]

I want more MIAMI BOAT SHOW INFO!!!

[whipper]

It seems pointless to me to compare Verodos to 2 stoke v6s at this stage of there development. Im sure in a few years like all motors the 4 strokes will be faster and lighter than the 2 strokes of late. Just like the Motocross racers once thought 2 strokes are the only choice for speed and light wieght. Now there not and the world Champions are riding 4 stroke now beating two strokes!! The same will happen with the 4s in the marine industry but it will take time to develop the market. I think the 275 or 300 Verodo is a great choice for a 22 GradyWhite but not my Allison. Just like the 69 428 Mustang cant beat a 4.6 liter{252cid} mustang of today or what ever that displacment is 2 something.My point is over the years im sure one way or another the Verodo or maybe a {two stroke} will be faster than anything you ever could buy today. ya never know the 200 Verodo with the I4 could have 300hp soon!!!!!!! The 175 2.5 Merc is the same block as the 280!! But it started as a 175! 200 I4 Verodo supercharged and intercooled bored out with top pinned pistons and a cone on a 15-20inch mid and 8500 limiter Ill bet would smoke a 280!!! :D James

[merccoop]

200v4 Verodo supercharged and intercooled bored out with top pinned pistons and a cone on a 15-20inch mid and 8500 limiter Ill bet would smoke a 280!!! :D James


Not to be a stickler, but the 200 verado is an inline 4 :D

[whipper]

Thanks oops edited it.

[RBT]

You cannot compare 2 stroke to 4 stroke bikes...... the 4 strokes are TWICE the displacement!.

RT

[Riverman]

I4 Verodo supercharged and intercooled bored out with top pinned pistons and a cone on a 15-20inch mid and 8500 limiter Ill bet would smoke a 280!!! :D JamesNo need to pin rings on a 4 stroke. That is a 2 stroke thing!

Funny no mention here of BRP. They are our future boys. They are still working exclusively on the development and refinement of the two cycle engine. New products are slow in coming, sure, certainly due to the Ficht experience. All of the outboard manufacturers are infected with the AIDS of the industry, the 4-stroke, except BRP. In two years you will all be singing the same tune.

[1BadAction]

You cannot compare 2 stroke to 4 stroke bikes...... the 4 strokes are TWICE the displacement!.

RT

but the bikes arent supercharged either...

the I-4 has the potential. its light enough, and can be made lighter. its only 50lbs heavier than a 2.5 opti fishin motor as it sits (which it is a fishin motor, so its comparing apples to apples) its dry sump, the oil tank can be moved to the boat to take weight off the stern. all the intake baffling can be removed to drop weight, lighter cowling, no bottom shroud, etc. If you have any doubts what a SCd I-4 will do, use teh google. Pretty much any mods you do will pick up bottom end TQ AND top end HP. I know theres plenty of haters here that are in denial and think you cant mod a 4S, but whatever, ignorance is bliss.

all this stuff you can't do on a production engine, it makes it loud and a pain in the ass to rig. same way with the trim and fuel pumps in the boat and the light cowlings. regular motors don't have these because its alot cleaner to keep everything under a heavy quiet cowling.

[Raceman]

Funny no mention here of BRP. They are our future boys. They are still working exclusively on the development and refinement of the two cycle engine. New products are slow in coming, sure, certainly due to the Ficht experience. All of the outboard manufacturers are infected with the AIDS of the industry, the 4-stroke, except BRP. In two years you will all be singing the same tune.

I don't think so. I wish you were right, but there are two (at least) historical precedents that blow holes in your theory. First, and possibly the most unexplainable is BRP's switch to 4 strokes in all their PWC's. Their 130 horse direct injected two stroke Sea Doo motor was excellent and probably my favorite amonng the Sea Doo's I've owned (over 25, maybe 30 since 1991) but POOF................ gone. Secondly, bikes went through the same thing 20 plus years ago on the street and are seeing the same metamorphasis on the dirt now.

In addition, SeaDoo is runnin' Merc Sportjet power in all their mini jetboats now instead of their old reliable Bombardier two strokes and I'm bettin it's only a matter of time before Merc goes 4 stroke with the Sportjets. If there was a viable alternative, it seems like BRP would be throwing 2 stroke ouboard powerheads of their own manufacture in the SeaDoo jetboats.

One other thing to consider, the US is full of enviro-Nazis and nut cases like Al Gore that take somebody else's information and exagerate and embellish it to fit their own agenda and of course gain publicity/notoriety for themselves. With the recent democraptic snatch of Congress and the same likely outcome in the Whitehouse in '08, all these fruitcakes are going to have TREMENDOUS exposure/influence, and I'm sure the fanatics at the EPA are licking their chops in anticipation. Gore has already made the assenine statement that recreational and ground care type engines(ATV's, dirtbikes, chainsaws, lawnmowers, etc) account for over half of the greenhouse whatevers, and two stroke ANYTHING will continue to be a good target to keep his distortions in the spotlight.

Like I said.............. wish you were right, but SERIOUSLY doubt it.

[Capt.Insane-o]

Why does'nt BRP use thier powerheads in sportjunks? Why bother, plug and play some merc powerheads in there and let Merc deal with the issues of warranty and time bombs. The sportjet is a mechanics wet dream, run wide open in a hostile wet environment with most of the time crap gas and oil right on the rev limiter. Smart move on BRP.
The Veradoo is a nice motor for it's intended purpose, ugly as all hell, but thats besides the point. Point to me a company that is making a higher end outboard lighter and or/comparable in wieght to a 2.5 200 (bench mark) that we are all so used to running. The 200 Veradoo is a step closer, but now even smaller in displacement and higher strung. I'll take an opti or e-tec anyday still.
Now lets take a look at the difficulties of wanting a high perf fourstroke on lets say a 15 inch mid. 1. Oil sump, much of the space in a fourstroke mid is dedicated to the sump, work a motor harder it's going to need an even bigger sump, and then possibly an oil cooler (another part) And I'm not too sure I want 10-12 quarts of oil in a tank with plumbing in my boat. Which brings another point, a dry sump oiling system cannot be mounted low in relation to the motor. 2. Inertial mass of a heavier crankshaft, camshafts and all the other whiz bang spinning parts spinning at a higher rpm lets say 8500. Rotating mass is murder on gearcases, clutch dogs, pinion gears and shafts. It was mentioned that Yamaha was having gearcase issues, no wonder. Even at idle that is a significant mass rolling around. 3. Valve springs and valves. Valve springs and I get along like Raceman and Hillary, I can imagine dropping a valve in a Verado, That will make putting new reeds in your 2.5 seem like a picinic with the Playbunnies. 4. A Verado displaces 2.6 liters and must make two revolutions for a complete power cycle, A 3.0 liter opti displaces how much in two revolutions and has how many power cycles now?

The manufacturers are in it to make money, and unfortunately our segment of the market is not it. The fact that one is still able to order a drag/s3000 power head or a 280, even at the heinous prices they are consider ourselves lucky.

[1BadAction]

. Which brings another point, a dry sump oiling system cannot be mounted low in relation to the motor.

then how do you explain the oil in the midsection of the verado and it IS dry sump? as for mounting the oil in the boat, I suppose thats a personal thing. although I cant see what the problem is with 10 qts in there, when it would most likely be sitting next to 20-30 gallons of another flammable liquid.

dropping valves? come on man, these arent 1960 small blocks we are talking about here. Even if that did happen, it would sure be easier to fix than a car. what about running lean and cooking pistons, ingesting reeds, worn leaking sealing rings, locater pin failures, or those beautiful 250 hour rebuild intervals. oops, I forgot, we only point out the weaknesses of the 4s and not the 2s.


A Verado displaces 2.6 liters and must make two revolutions for a complete power cycle, A 3.0 liter opti displaces how much in two revolutions and has how many power cycles now?

yet, the 3.0 optis make less power than 2 of the Verado models... and thats comparing racing division engines, not just vanilla merc motas.

ok, im done playing devils advocate for today.

[Riverman]

Raceman, I think the reason is as I stated, they are going slow on the intro of new engines due to the Ficht experience. Plus, BRP wears a lot of hats too, The Spyder has taken a lot of resources to develop, Can-am, Ski-doo, the sport aircraft engine market, etc. Don't forget, Merc makes boat motors exclusively so all of their resources are more focused.

I'll tell you if I was going to develop a four stroke outboard it certainly wouldn't have a wet sump. Dry sump is superior in every way (except for cost) especially on an outboard with an unlimited cooling medium. Huge oil capacities are not needed if the system is designed properly. The F404 engine which makes about 12,000 HP has a 3 litre oil tank. :eek:

Can you tell I've missed posting here in the last few days? :D

[Maureen M]

We missed you too Jeff :) :D